Congress takes another crack at war memorial cross
Source: AP-Excite
By KEVIN FREKING
WASHINGTON (AP) Could one of the nation's longest-running church-state conflicts be nearing a conclusion?
As part of a bill setting defense policy, Congress would authorize the defense secretary to transfer a scenic parcel of federal land in the La Jolla section of San Diego, to a private group. The parcel contains a memorial to the nation's veterans and a 43-foot-high cross that federal courts have determined is an unconstitutional effort by the government to endorse a religion.
Tens of thousands of people visit Mount Soledad ever year to take in a view that includes the Pacific Ocean to the west, downtown San Diego to the south and the Laguna Mountains to the east. On the same hilltop sits the Mount Soledad Veterans Memorial. The memorial's most dominant feature is a white cross that has been the focus of seemingly unending litigation.
Last year, a federal judge ordered the federal government and Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel to remove the cross. It was the judge's response to a ruling two years earlier from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals.
FULL story at link.
FILE - In this Jan. 4, 2011 file photo, a man photographs in front of the war memorial cross on Mount Soledad in San Diego. Could one of the nation{2019}s longest-running church-state conflicts be nearing a conclusion? As part of a bill setting defense policy, Congress is set to authorize the secretary of Defense to transfer a scenic parcel of federal land in La Jolla, Calif., to a private group. The parcel contains a memorial to the nation{2019}s veterans and a 43-foot-high cross that federal courts have determined is an unconstitutional effort by the government to endorse a religion. (AP Photo/Gregory Bull, File)
Read more: http://apnews.excite.com/article/20141206/us-cross-dispute-congress-02143add6f.html
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)Lets put this to a NATIONAL Referendum where the deists, atheists and other forms of religion can have a say and can PLACE our objects of worship right along the cross, since this object is a symbol of having a person nailed to it and how it is a symbol of cruelty to the act of suffering of those who were murdered.
This federal land or parcel is that "WE" all own that land and its not for sale.
This reminds me of the Cliven Bundy issue, he and his band of criminals abscond public land and don't pay grazing fees, have these individuals paid did not pay any taxes or fees for the use of our federal land, or are they going to get a tax exempt status?
Johnyawl
(3,205 posts)...seeing as how 77% of the US identifies as Christian. And the only people who bother to vote anymore are the evangelical christians.
bpollen
(110 posts)"...atheists and other forms of religion..."
Atheism is NOT a religion. They have NO gods, they do NOT worship. Atheism is the antithesis of religion.
alarimer
(16,245 posts)How did that happen?
Simplest thing would be to take the cross down. It is an unacceptable endorsement of religion. Why give a private group this land? It's a memorial to all veterans and should be inclusive for those who are not Christian. Giving it to a private group is tacitly endorsing the idea of religious discrimination.
damyank913
(787 posts)...That's the only symbol that these men and women actually had in common. They paid the highest price. Why honor some and not all?
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)They died to defend a Constitution and not a flag or a cross: hattip:
damyank913
(787 posts)Ok. Perhaps a copy of the Constitution. I too, took the oath.
Ned Flanders
(233 posts)I live in a canyon on the edge of LA. The hills in the area are remarkably preserved due to their steepness, instability, and an experimental forest. Maybe five years ago someone lugged a cross up to the top of one of the hills, where it perches like a big white vulture looking down upon us heathens. Such structures are supposed to be permitted, but it just annoys me looking out at the view and seeing that idol up there. The first time I visited it I found a half dozen discarded water bottles, other trash, even a nice flag of toilet paper, on the way up. This in an area where I'd never seen another person, such is the nature of the terrain. That was some dedicated thumper. Anyway, periodically I remove it, and less than a year later someone restores it. We're on the 3rd iteration now, ha. I reckon I'll lose, though, as I can't match religious frenzy for passion, although someone has got to be sweating hard as they lug that thing up the hill. No doubt they enjoy the pain, comparing themself to a modern day martyr. Forget geocaching: track down a local cross and tear it down!
Lugano
(52 posts)so much it burns when you try to pick it up...
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)with all the other problems going on in the country, this one rates at the bottom of my list.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)Religion is the problem, how many people have died in wars, beliefs by this cross, or by symbols of a any religion.
It is time to debase religion for what it truly is, is a means to use as division to race, ethnicity, culture and lack of respect.
This is ALL of our land and I OBJECT right along with many others, this cross solves none of the others issues in this country or the world---none .
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)There are other more important issues in this country that need taken care of.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)shooting black men in the streets, deregulating Wall Street, starting wars over oil and shipping jobs overseas? I thought it was talk radio or violent video games...
And removing or transferring a 60-year-old slab of concrete solves one of the other issues in this country or the world---none. Don't we have better things to spend time on? No? Goodie, I always wanted the whole world peace and being able to talk to dogs bit from the end of Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure.
AnalystInParadise
(1,832 posts)I'll keep mine. No need to try and change each others minds by force or coercion.
grilled onions
(1,957 posts)They don't even help the vets or they wouldn't be having to use food stamps.Low pay,little help for their trauma and little help for rehab or jobs. We have people living near water,viaducts or forced to hide until whatever city decides it's clean up week. We have people hungry and yet we arrest those who try to give them a sandwich or a pair of socks. We have a group that is just itching to start another war yet all they care about is this huge cross. They must feel very Christian or can they possibly feel remorse for all those young vets they have sent off to their personal Hell.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Well stated.
At this point, I could care less about a piece of property with cross on it being transferred to a private entity, that's just at the bottom of my "give a damn" list.
We have much more pressing problems to solve, those that you mentioned, the wholesale killing of minorities by police in this country, the takeover of our govt by corps, the huge wealth inequity between the rich and poor, the collapse of our infrastructure, education, etc.
So you can see why I could care less about a parcel of federal land with a cross on it being transferred.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)You may consider this to be trivial in it's appearance because of other "IMPORTANT ISSUES", but this is like putting the so called ten commandants in a court room, or better yet why don't we get a pastor or a minister (never seen a Native American on the dais ) which occurs everyday in the Congress to invoke there religious dogma of piety of blessing that Congress prior to passing legislation to spread hate and fear and attack our fellow humans with laws to hurt---nice concept, to get a blessing and then we get a double standard of hypocrisy, just like the cross being put on our federal land
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)And once again, I don't give a shit if you object to my lack of caring if this property is transferred to a private entity for preservation.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)You may consider this to be trivial in it's appearance because of other "IMPORTANT ISSUES", but this is like putting the so called ten commandants in a court room, or better yet why don't we get a pastor or a minister (never seen a Native American on the dais ) which occurs everyday in the Congress to invoke there religious dogma of piety of blessing that Congress prior to passing legislation to spread hate and fear and attack our fellow humans with laws to hurt---nice concept, to get a blessing and then we get a double standard of hypocrisy, just like the cross being put on our federal land.
Thanks for showing everyone how thin your skin really is when it comes to compassion
Have a nice day
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Really stretching there turbinetree, really stretching.
turbinetree
(24,695 posts)I don't know you, but the lack of indifference to let this go forward shows that the BIGGER issues in this country are not being resolved, and to put this on the proverbial back burner in your equation does not solve the issues at hand, because this issue is a microcosms of the BIGGER social issues confronting this country, it is used to justify death in any form, by a gun, stabbing, nailing to a cross, chocking, war, anything related to death.
This cross represents death and the glorification of death by violence , and I and others are really tired that we have to see this symbol of death and do not want it on our land, in our public debate, public buildings, or any other place it is a reminder and it does not solve the social issues that are BIGGER in this country that you write about.
This cross is being used to placate the acts of violence and its justifications, and if someone cannot see the forest pass the trees because of this cross then they don't see the BIGGER problems in front of there face
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)My priorities are different than yours on what needs to be solved in this country and this issue is at the bottom of my give a shit list.
BTW, what violence were you referring to?
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)and no one symbol should be used.
GGJohn
(9,951 posts)Moostache
(9,895 posts)as long as everyone else gets the right to a proportionately sized monument and prayer center. I want to see these freaks heads explode when they realize that by fighting for a government cross, they open the door for a government mosque on the premises as well as a Temple, a Druid altar, and anything else that someone wants represented as part of the overall American landscape.
What next from these people, crosses on the $5 bill?
drm604
(16,230 posts)This is essentially an end run around the constitution. Anytime they want to put a religious symbol on some piece of land they can just transfer it to some sham group set up for the specific purpose of evading the constitution.
What's to stop municipalities from transferring the front lawns of courthouses to groups that want to set up religious symbols? For that matter, why not transfer public squares to non-profits so that they can put any kinds of restrictions they want on the use of that land, including restrictions on speech and public gatherings?
leftymon
(43 posts)is one floating in a vat of urine!
drm604
(16,230 posts)I'm not sure why you directed it at me.
My anti-crucifix emotions got the best of me. I just get so jerked!!
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)Mark veteran headstones with cross if needed.
malokvale77
(4,879 posts)let's keep littering the land with "death" memorials under the sign of the cross.
jmowreader
(50,557 posts)Why does Fundamentalist Christianity seem like a street gang that feels the need to paint its logo on everything it sees?