Detroit tells judge: We can't give away free water

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

Detroit tells judge: We can't give away free water
By ED WHITE, Associated Press | September 22, 2014 | Updated: September 22, 2014 3:38pm

DETROIT (AP) — Detroit's water department defended its shutoff policy Monday and warned that free service to people with unpaid bills could be "very devastating" to the bottom line.

Judge Steven Rhodes set aside Detroit's bankruptcy trial to hear evidence in a controversy that has been boiling all summer. A coalition representing low-income residents is asking him to suspend water shutoffs and restore service to people who have lost it.

The water department would be violating Michigan law and breaking agreements with bondholders if forced to supply water and ignore overdue bills, attorney Sonal Mithani said.

The "humanitarian concerns are very compelling" but fairness is critical, too, Mithani said, noting that 60 percent of Detroit residents are paying for water on time.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/news/science/article/Judge-to-hear-sides-in-Detroit-water-shutoffs-5771522.php

[TygrBright]

1. If you think the costs of water are tough, try a dysentery or cholera epidemic! n/t

[Jack Rabbit]

4. Ironic that this water problem is engineered by the same people who want to repeal the ACA

Take it out of the personal bank accounts of Rick Snyder, Kevyn Orr and anybody who bought Detroit's property in Orr's fire sale.

[FrodosPet]

34. How much does free water cost?

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/about_dwsd/fact_sheet/dwsd_fact_sheet.pdf

The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department wants you to know your tap water meets or surpasses all federal and state standards for quality and safety.

• One of the largest systems in the nation, the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department has a rich history in public utility service dating back to the early 1800s - beginning with a water system of wooden logs and the "Grand Sewer" made up of brick and stone.

• DWSD provides water service to the entire city of Detroit and neighboring southeastern Michigan communities throughout Wayne, Oakland, Macomb, St. Clair, Lapeer, Genesee, Washtenaw and Monroe counties. The 1,079-square-mile water service area, which includes Detroit and 127 suburban communities, makes up approximately 40 percent of the state's population. Wastewater service is also provided to a 946-square-mile area that encompasses Detroit and 76 neighboring communities.

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department is a branch of the City of Detroit government. The Department is governed by a seven-member Board of Water Commissioners whose members are appointed by the Mayor. Four commissioners, by City Charter requirements, represent Detroit residents. Three remaining commissioners represent suburban wholesale customers with appointees from Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. Board meeting times and locations are posted on the Department's website at www.dwsd.org. Click on the About DWSD button for the DWSD Board of Water Commissioners Meeting Calendar.

• DWSD's water supply system is one of the largest in the nation both in terms of water produced and population served. The water system draws fresh water from the Great Lakes System, with Lake Huron to the north and the Detroit River to the south. Hardness levels for treated drinking water vary depending on the time of the year, averaging 105 parts per million or 6.0 grains per gallon. DWSD's water network consists of 3,438 miles of transmission and distribution mains within the City of Detroit, and 402 miles of transmission mains in the remaining service area. DWSD's five water treatment plants pump an average of 610 million gallons of clean drinking water each day. The Department is responsible for maintenance and repair of 27,244 fire hydrants in the city.

• DWSD's sewer system originated in 1836, and today consists of 12 pump stations, six combined sewer overflow retention treatment basins, three screening and disinfection facilities, and over 3,000 miles of large diameter sewer lines that carry captured storm water runoff, snowmelt, and waste water to the Wastewater Treatment Plant — one of the largest single-site wastewater treatment facilities in the country. This facility treats an average of 710 million gallons of flow per day.

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, with 1,651 employees, has combined water and sewerage rates lower than most American cities, including Midwestern cities like Chicago,Columbus, and Indianapolis. By law, DWSD can only recover the cost for provision of service — it cannot make a profit. For the Fiscal Year (FY) 2014/2015 the Department has an annual operating budget of approximately $363,771,200 million.

• By Michigan statute, DWSD is a not-for-profit entity. Water and sewer rates are based on cost of service only and the Department receives no subsidies from property taxes.Based on the rates adopted for Fiscal Year 2014/2015, in July 2014 DWSD began billing customers in the city of Detroit an average of $97.85 per month based on water usage of 1,000 cubic feet per month. This covers all costs of providing safe drinking water and sewer service to their homes, including the cost of water and wastewater treatment, pumping, delivery, billing, and more.

• Suburban customers receive the same high quality drinking water and wastewater treatment provided to Detroit customers. However, their municipalities operate additional facilities to bring these services to their homes, so DWSD's monthly charges for the average suburban customer represent only a portion of the final bill for residents outside the city.

• DWSD's July 2013 Capital Improvement Program totals approximately $1.4 billion over the next five years and beyond with approximately $174.7 million and $322.4 million budgeted for water and sewer projects for FY 2012-13 and FY 2013-17 respectively. The program focuses on maintaining the excellent quality of water provided to customers; improving water system reliability by replacing aging infrastructure to reduce the growing incidence of main breaks; ensuring environmental protection for all customers through upgraded treatment facilities; improving employee safety through system modifications; and increasing efficiency of services to all customers by taking advantage of new technology.

• Major projects in the Capital Improvement Program include replacement of aging water mains; rehabilitation and upgrades to water and wastewater treatment plants, pumping stations and reservoirs; rehabilitation or replacement of sewer lines and outfalls; construction of combined sewer overflow control facilities to ensure that sewer systems effectively handle storm water flows and protect the environment.

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department is proud of the high quality of drinking water it provides throughout the Detroit region. Specifics about this notable drinking water and the process used to ensure its safety for all customers, can be found in DWSD's Water Quality Report which is issued annually and is available from DWSD's Water Quality Division, at 313-926-8102, or on the Department's website at www.dwsd.org. Click on the Customer Info button.

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department places a high importance on community awareness about water and sewer related issues. The Department hosts a number of annual events including Drinking Water Week in May with related events throughout the month. For information contact — Public Affairs Customer Outreach Section at 313-964-9576.

[Jack Rabbit]

41. I'm not trying to badmouth Detoit's water works

I am trying to badmouth Michigan's emergency manager law, and those who except positions as EMs and the crooked governor who appoints them and crooked state legislators who pass legislation like that.

[FrodosPet]

45. I don't believe Mike Duggan is a Koch patsy trying to screw the citizens of Detroit

The laws that say that the DWSD has to recover their costs, and not get subsidized by property taxes or unequal billing, goes back decades.

The problem is not that people have to pay for water. The problem is that people need better economic opportunities so they can afford to pay for the water entering and leaving their homes. Then if someone is getting paid, but not paying for their water, it is entirely their fault.

[LovingA2andMI]

56. LOL.....Really now?

So is Mike Duggan a Democrat because let's be honest --- one DOES NOT have to declare Democrat or Republican affiliation to run for Mayor of Detroit in a NON-PARISTAN race. Just the facts, of course....

[FrodosPet]

62. Yes, Mike Duggan is a Democrat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Duggan

~ snip ~

A Democrat, Duggan was an appointed and elected official in Wayne County, Michigan beginning in 1986 as Wayne County's assistant corporation counsel. He was deputy County Executive from 1987 to 2001 under Edward H. McNamara and was elected prosecutor in 2000.

~ snip ~

--------------------------------

But sometimes, Wikipedia has been known to be erroneous. So let's keep looking.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/05/-mike-duggan-detroit-mayor-_n_4221656.html

~ snip ~

Mike Duggan, who ran on his financial rescue of the city’s largest hospital system, beat Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon 55 percent to 45 percent with 98 percent of precincts reporting, the Detroit News reported. Both candidates are Democrats. The city of Detroit is 83 percent African American.

~ snip ~

--------------------------------

Harumph... The Huffington Post is owned by AOL.

The Detroit Free Press is commonly considered the "liberal" paper in town. What do they say?

One day after Mike Duggan announced he is dropping out of the race for Detroit mayor, political pundits were discussing the possibility of the former Detroit Medical Center CEO running as a Democratic candidate for governor in 2014.

~ snip ~

--------------------------------

Still pretty corporate. How about the World Socialist Web Site - Published by the International Committee of the Fourth International (ICFI)?

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/11/08/dugg-n08.html

Mike Duggan, the multi-millionaire former Wayne County prosecutor and top executive of the Detroit Medical Center (DMC), was elected mayor of Detroit Tuesday. By a margin of 55 to 45 percent, Duggan defeated fellow Democrat, ex-Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon, in a non-partisan election.

~ snip ~

[LovingA2andMI]

70. Democrat huh

In This case, I will use the words in the Corporate Rag you quoted, against your point.....get ready.....this one will be too cute "

"The impact of an emergency manager on Detroit’s mayoral race took a new twist today as labor activist Robert Davis released e-mails from top aides to Gov. Rick Snyder that he says show that candidate Mike Duggan played a role in the selection process that resulted with Kevyn Orr’s appointment.

It was Davis’ latest salvo against Duggan, who is trying to become mayor of Detroit through a write-in campaign.

Davis, who works with the city’s largest labor union — the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees Council 25 — supported mayoral candidate Tom Barrow’s challenge that Duggan hadn’t lived in the city for a year the day he turned in campaign signatures to make the Aug. 6 ballot. A Wayne County judge agreed.

Duggan dismissed any hint today that his involvement with the Snyder administration was anything other than to tell Snyder and his staff that Detroit didn’t need an emergency manager and that it would be a mistake to appoint one before the city could elect a mayor capable of fixing the city without a takeover.

“I tried very hard to convince the governor’s people not to appoint an emergency manager,” Duggan told the Free Press. “You see what influence I had. They ignored me.”

Davis provided the e-mails to the Free Press today. They were released as part of a lawsuit he filed against the Snyder administration, alleging that it violated the state’s open meetings laws in recruiting and selecting an emergency manager. State officials have turned over some e-mails and documents an Ingham County judge ordered released to Davis.

One e-mail from top Snyder adviser Rich Baird, who played a major role in the emergency manager selection, indicates that Baird had dinner with Duggan on Feb. 5. The e-mail appears to be to Kevyn Orr, more than a month before he was chosen as Detroit’s emergency manager, Davis said.

“Mike has made a reasoned, logical and impassioned plea to defer any appointment of an EFM until after the election in November,” the e-mail says. “He is concerned that an EFM will make too many decisions to resolve the short-term crisis in Detroit without regard to the long term (such as hiring a police chief, consolidating operations under an authority, not prioritizing city services in the same way as a strong mayor would, etc.).”

A second e-mail, to Baird from state Treasurer Andy Dillon, references Duggan telling state officials that another candidate for the emergency manager job, whose name was redacted in the documents Davis released, shouldn’t be eligible for the job, but “there is a role for him” in the effort to turn around Detroit.

Orr was appointed March 25."

http://www.freep.com/article/20130717/NEWS01/307170135/Mike-Duggan-Robert-Davis-emergency-manager

Mike's a "Democrat" however worked with Andy "Dino" working for Conway-Mackenzie as a Consultant now -- former State Treasurer Andy Dillon -- who helps pushed Detroit into Bankruptcy for the purposes of his own personal gain. Amazing Democrats right?

Speaking of Andy, there was a meeting where Andy was called out on his tactics by the former City Council Women JoAnne Watson and C.P.A. Tom Barrow -- however, of course those who love corporate media would know nothing about this meeting:

"On March 12, 2013, Independent Underground Radio LIVE -- Michigan's Top Politico Program -- obtained a Exclusive Interview with President of Citizen's for Detroit's Future, Former Head of Michigan Licensing Board of Accountancy and C.P.A.- Tom Barrow.

In the interview, C.P.A. Barrow who's a 2013 candidate for Mayor of Detroit warned on Michigan's Governor Rick Snyder's intentions assigning a Emergency Manager to the City could lead to dangerous consequences for Pension Retirees.

Mr. Barrow specifically shared details of a financial review meeting he was invited to attend with Councilwoman Joanne Watson (D) and State Treasurer Andy Dillon. State Treasurer Dillon revealed under Barrow's tough and pointed financial questions, the City of Detroit did not have a immediate fiscal crisis.

During the meeting C.P.A. Barrow detailed how State Treasurer Dillon decried the primary reason an Emergency Manager was assigned to Detroit, was to deal with the City long-term debt by restructuring or eliminating Detroit's Retiree Pension Obligations.

On Thursday, July 18th, Michigan's Governor Rick Snyder with his Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr announced Detroit, Michigan will launch the largest bankruptcy proceeding in United States history, after Detroit's Pension Board launched a suit to determine if Gov. Snyder and E.M. true mission in the bankruptcy process of the end City of Detroit Retiree Pension Guarantees."

The interview is here: https://soundcloud.com/webmaster-38-3/tom-barrow-mar-12-2013

Yep, that's the Democrat --- Andy Dillon. Should I place more information about his Consultant duties for the State of Michigan after his so-called retirement, the war of the Roses Divorce or the Caribbean Vacation. If so, just let us know.

Back to the "Democrat" Mayor Duggan

"State and local leaders conspired to plunge Detroit into the nation’s largest municipal bankruptcy in a series of surreptitious meetings that began soon after Mayor Dave Bing was elected to his first full term in 2010, the Motor City Muckraker has learned.

In early 2011, newly elected Gov. Rick Snyder and his executive team invited Bing and his aide, Kirk Lewis, to private brainstorming sessions. The topic – devising a strict emergency manager law that would allow an appointed official to break union contracts and privatize services in financially struggling municipalities.

The private sessions, which the mayor and governor had denied took place, marked the beginning of two years’ of secret meetings intended to deceive Detroiters, city workers and other stakeholders about the prospect of a financial takeover and bankruptcy, calling into question whether authorities ever intended to bargain in good faith, a requirement of Chapter 9 bankruptcy.

Involved was a surprising array of local and state politicians, including the governor, Treasurer Andy Dillon, Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr, mayoral candidate Mike Duggan/i], former Council President Pro Tem Gary Brown and a host of others."

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/08/05/muckraker-alert-road-to-bankruptcy-paved-in-secrets-lies/

Motorcity Muckraker is a independent media operation however, it does indeed have the tendency to tell it like it is.....including as a quoted source of many local 2,4 and 7 (S.E. Michigan) News stations. Loving how the "Democrat" Duggan was secretly meeting for years on end with Baird and Rick Snyder. Two REPUBLICANS. Maybe if Duggan is a "Democrat" it's in name only.....just like Andy D.

Oh, one more point....speaking of Baird, Rich Baird, the Governor Rick Snyder right hand man:

"The Snyder administration initially explained the Michigan exemption as “an inadvertent error made apparently in closing documents during the home purchase process.” But Democrats, noting Baird’s background at a major accounting firm, had called on Snyder to fire him.

Botke said Baird’s property tax bill would have included a line indicating how much he saved because of the exemption, but she suggested it was easy to overlook. “Do you read every line on your tax bill?"

With the township admitting error, Baird took on his critics this weekend, reportedly threatening to sue Michigan AFL-CIO President Karla Swift over a newspaper editorial and Senate Minority Leader Gretchen Whitmer for suggesting during a recent television appearance that Snyder "has crooks working for him" in state government.

“I do not like being termed ‘a crook’ and am considering suing Gretchen Whitmer and others,” Baird told Senate Majority Leader Randy Richardville in an email chain distributed by the Michigan Democratic Party. “Thought you might like to know.”

MDP Chairman Lon Johnson defended Whitmer, saying she has “not only the right but the responsibility” to hold Snyder and his closest adviser accountable.

“Baird’s threat is nothing but a blatant and outrageous attempt by the Snyder administration to bully Leader Whitmer into silence about the pattern of cronyism and questionable activities by top Snyder officials,” Johnson said in a statement.

Baird, who hired Snyder for his first job back in the early 1980s, joined the governor-elect’s transition team as he prepared to take office following the 2010 election. He currently holds the title of "transformation manager."

http://www.mlive.com/lansing-news/index.ssf/2014/09/top_snyder_aide_got_second_tax.html

By the way, Gretchen -- the Democrat Baird who double dipped for a Property Tax Exemption in two states (one of which after being caught, he paid back) threatened to sue a REAL DEMOCRAT -- State Senate Majority Leader Gretchen Whitmer. So far, Baird boasting about a lawsuit for Whitmer using her Constitutional right to Free Speech has went nowhere.

And back to the point...Duggan is some type of interesting type of "Democrat", huh?

[FrodosPet]

79. Uh noes! He's a politician!!! OMG everyone panic!!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess the citizens of the City of Detroit are not smart enough to know what's good for them.

Perhaps they need some outsiders to come in and take over, since they elected a DINO who is more worried about delivering services to the citizens than he is in projecting party purity.

[politicat]

91. Wait, WUT!?!

• By Michigan statute, DWSD is a not-for-profit entity. Water and sewer rates are based on cost of service only and the Department receives no subsidies from property taxes.Based on the rates adopted for Fiscal Year 2014/2015, in July 2014 DWSD began billing customers in the city of Detroit an average of $97.85 per month based on water usage of 1,000 cubic feet per month. This covers all costs of providing safe drinking water and sewer service to their homes, including the cost of water and wastewater treatment, pumping, delivery, billing, and more.

A cubic foot of water is 7.48 gallons, so they're saying that the average Detroit household is using 7500 gallons of water a month.

Spouse and I live in a 2 bathroom house, with a dishwasher, washing machine and we have to water the garden. In the summer, we max at 4000 gallons a month, for which we are charged $23 for water and $18 for sewer. Most winter months, we use 2000 gallons, and pay $18 and $18. (2000 is the minimum usage for a single family home in our city.) Average winter usage in our town is 3000, average summer is 5000, and average household size here is 4.

We live in a dry region. Every drop of our water has a claim on it further down the stack.

What the hell is going on in Detroit if the average usage is more than double that in other parts of the country? Also, their water is 2x more expensive per gallon than ours, and again, this is an arid climate.

Not a profit center? My ass.

[Aerows]

19. Exactly

I read some research that stated that treated water adds 20 years of life on average to everyone with access to it.

Wait until people are suffering from cholera, dysentery or heaven help us Ebola in the US and see how pleased austerity makes everyone affected - because it never stops in "those people's neighborhoods", it comes to everybody's neighborhoods.

Short-sighted, racist, classist and pure stupidity if you ask me.

[jtuck004]

2. We subsidize school lunch, maybe need to subsidize water as well. Provide each house with

some figure, say 20,000 gallons per month. Charge after that.

Because the risks of not having it are greater than the investment in your neighbors to do so.

[hollysmom]

29. we don't hve to susidize the water

people who own homes are paying for their water, it is the slum lords collecting rent and not paying their water bill - they have to be made to pay even if we have to jail them, they are the ones benefit-ting.

[Recursion]

55. Renters don't have to pay their own water?

Is that a Michigan thing?

[LovingA2andMI]

57. It is indeed a Michigan thing....

And it is NOT required that renters pay for water. If the renter does not pay for the water, typically the landlord (property owner) does -- and write off a portion of the water bill on their business tax return via a Schedule C.

[hollysmom]

97. I don't know any renter in any state that pays water, it used to be such a small amount that it was

just included in the rent unlike power or gas.
Of course water bills are getting higher mostly through waste of businesses and privatization.

[Recursion]

98. In DC you do. VA, too.

Or at least I did. Maybe I was getting screwed; not sure.

[rocktivity]

3. Well, the judge can always arrange to take the profit motive OUT of it

Turn the Water company into state employees LOL!


rocktivity

[FrodosPet]

9. The Detroit Sewer and Water department is a public agency

They beat you to that by several decades.

[bl968]

61. However they are for profit

Which generally are designed and intended to generate a profit for the cities general funds.

[FrodosPet]

63. That is incorrect

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/about_dwsd/fact_sheet/dwsd_fact_sheet.pdf

~ snip ~

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, with 1,651 employees, has combined water and sewerage rates lower than most American cities, including Midwestern cities like Chicago,Columbus, and Indianapolis. By law, DWSD can only recover the cost for provision of service — it cannot make a profit. For the Fiscal Year (FY) 2014/2015 the Department has an annual operating budget of approximately $363,771,200 million.

• By Michigan statute, DWSD is a not-for-profit entity. Water and sewer rates are based on cost of service only and the Department receives no subsidies from property taxes.Based on the rates adopted for Fiscal Year 2014/2015, in July 2014 DWSD began billing customers in the city of Detroit an average of $97.85 per month based on water usage of 1,000 cubic feet per month. This covers all costs of providing safe drinking water and sewer service to their homes, including the cost of water and wastewater treatment, pumping, delivery, billing, and more.

~ snip ~

[freshwest]

5. Did the Great Lakes go dry while no one was looking?

Last edited Mon Sep 22, 2014, 10:06 PM - Edit history (1)

The Great Lakes:



Size, Length and Volume:

* Total length of Great Lakes shoreline, including islands: 11,000 miles.

* World’s supply of surface freshwater in the Great Lakes: 20 percent.

* Combined surface area of all the Great Lakes: 94,000 square miles (244,000 square kilometers).

* The surface area of the Lakes is larger than: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont combined.

* Gallons of fresh water: 6 quadrillion (22.7 quadrillion liters). Enough to submerge the entire continental United States in nearly 10 feet of water.

http://www.miseagrant.umich.edu/explore/about-the-great-lakes/

Oh, wait. They must have given all that water to the Koch's. That's it.

[FrodosPet]

11. It's not the water that costs so much

It's the people. They have a bad habit of wanting to get paid to do the cold and often stinky job of maintaining the water mains and pumps, the sewer lines and treatment plants, and the storm drains.

I'll put up a longer post about DWSD later in General Discussions. For now, here is their website if anyone wants to actually get informed about their budget, facilities, and programs they have in place to try and help people keep their water on.

http://www.dwsd.org/

[Aerows]

20. And it's not the water or the pay for said people maintaining the

water mains, pumps, sewer lines, storm drains and treatment plants that will be the only people that end up suffering, nor will it be the people they service exclusively.

It's a widespread public health emergency waiting to happen, and bacterial and viral infections aren't known to infect "people I don't know." That should be the real concern.

[freshwest]

32. I wasn't seriously making a case against infrastructure spending, you know.

But the 'starve the beast' and the 'stick it to the poor' is the Koch mantra. I'm aware of that, and I still blame them, not the long suffering public workers who try to keep the utilities going. Nor the poor who can't pay for water, which is real poverty. Detroit was destroyed by design. Do you feel that those who are advocating for help paying the bills are just trolling the system, or something like that?

[FrodosPet]

37. I feel sorry for the people at DWSD

They are hard working people who bust their ass to get clean water and waste removal to millions of people in Southeast Michigan. The law is the law unless and until it can get changed. But people who don't want to spend even a few minutes learning the facts are treating these people like monsters when they are not.

Local TV is constantly talking about programs and plans that can help people get help to keep their water on. Churches and charities are offering assistance. The Department does not turn off until there is a big bill, months overdue. And then they offer plans starting at 10% down to get it turned back on.

Are their freeloaders, who could pay, but don't? Yes. I believe many of the really big commercial bills that people are pointing at have been paid. And while there is a lot of poverty in the City, not everyone there is poor. 60% of customers manage to pay on time.

I think the answer is to get the residents of the City of Detroit more economic opportunities, so they can afford to pay their own way through life, and so there is more money for the frail and elderly.

[freshwest]

38. As I said in one or the other replies, here, I support all public workers.

I believe the governor and his Koch pals, after a long series of abuse by major corporations, are at the root of this program. I appreciate your news that they are trying to help. I've seen some very hot articles at DU that did not say there was any help at all. And as I found that hard to believe, I didn't post on those threads. It's been ramped up as huge and inhuman conspiracy, as a crime against humanity, and out of proportion. But I still cutting off the water is extreme. I've seen it done in cities, but I've also seen cities with built in discounts for all utilities for the poor that eliminate this problem. It's the privatization of water billing that we deal with here now. If a place has given a contract to a company that does none of the maintenance or the supplying, yet takes a cut, they keep on getting greedy and asking for more. Is Detroit giving its water billing to private corporations who set the water bill too high? Or do you think the crisis is being exaggerated to make the case to let go of the public workers and sell the franchise of water off to private concerns?

[FrodosPet]

42. It is all in-house

The DWSD is a department of the City of Detroit. Their rates are set by law. They are not allowed to make a profit.

--------------------------------------------------

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/about_dwsd/fact_sheet/dwsd_fact_sheet.pdf

~ snip ~

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department, with 1,651 employees, has combined water and sewerage rates lower than most American cities, including Midwestern cities like Chicago,Columbus, and Indianapolis. By law, DWSD can only recover the cost for provision of service — it cannot make a profit. For the Fiscal Year (FY) 2014/2015 the Department has an annual operating budget of approximately $363,771,200 million.

• By Michigan statute, DWSD is a not-for-profit entity. Water and sewer rates are based on cost of service only and the Department receives no subsidies from property taxes.Based on the rates adopted for Fiscal Year 2014/2015, in July 2014 DWSD began billing customers in the city of Detroit an average of $97.85 per month based on water usage of 1,000 cubic feet per month. This covers all costs of providing safe drinking water and sewer service to their homes, including the cost of water and wastewater treatment, pumping, delivery, billing, and more.

~ snip ~

[freshwest]

46. Excellent. I also live in such a system. But some landlords turned over billing to private firms.

Although the water is still supplied and maintained by our public utility. And there are active groups attempting to get their foot in the door of the public revenue stream, constantly here. Even to the point of the lege not funding infrastructure unless a private firm gets control of them. So why this media assault on Detroit, if not to privatize?

[FrodosPet]

49. People love to hate and fear Detroit

It's not a new thing. Detroit has had a bad reputation for poverty and violence since the 1950s.

[Sivafae]

77. That what taxes are for.

I still do not get the American mindset that says you have to pay for stuff that could very well be paid for through our collective taxes. It boggles my mind. A ride on the bus does not cost $2, it is a lot more, but that is part that we expect the rider to pay. But what it is a is a point of service tax. Because the rest of the bill for that ride is paid for by the taxpayers. Why don't we just adjust the taxes and then no one has to pay the $2 for the ride because they have already paid it.

We Americans just cannot wrap our pretty little heads around the idea that things can be free for everyone because everyone has already paid.

[FrodosPet]

82. What is your position on usage caps?

Water is not an unlimited resource. Neither is money.

Should people have usage caps, with shutoffs or charges above a certain amount? Or should everyone be entitled to flood their yards and ignore water leaks?

What is your idea for conserving water when it is "free" for everyone?

[Sivafae]

90. yeah, i was thinking about that

However, I think people do pull together and conserve when conditions apply. Especially for a precious resource such as water. Although California has had major population growth in the last 25 years, our water usage has not gone up. We can, through building regulations, require a water system that restricts the use of water. And by not having to pay water bills, average joe schmidt can replace or update their house usage. People would have their usage monitored, and perhaps it could be part of their tax bill if usage went beyond a certain amount.

I in no way think of it as "free" because I pay taxes. I just believe the "point of service" taxes to be rather illogical and a punitive way of handling common welfare issues.


The majority of water is used by farmers for food though, and something I feel not pertinent to this conversation.

[snooper2]

78. VICE did a story on this, if everyone watched what I posted they would be informed

80,000 vacant homes in detroit and asshole losers loot and steal pipes, flooded basements, millions of gallons of water just flowing away...infrastructure is fucked, homeowners not maintaning properties, mismanagement within the city, whole bunch of issues-

Detroit is just about dead

[FrodosPet]

80. Everybody hates the city I love

On the left, in the middle, on the right.

Bigots hate it because it is full of those dark skinned people. Conservatives hate it because hating stuff is what they do best. And liberals hate it because the people went and elected a DINO.

Detroit is wounded. Hurting and crying. But Detroit is not dead.

[snooper2]

81. I don't hate it, just being realistic...They need to have a massive relocation project

determine the nicest neighborhoods and move everyone together so infrastructure can be maintained-

Raze the old neighborhoods, people will be compensated- Like a House Swap + Money funded by federal grants-

Cut the size of the city basically in half, rip out all the old infrastructure and plant some beets or olives or wheat, whatever the fuck grows there, auction it off as farm land-

Demo the old skyscrapers and half ass buildings and plant some grass. Open up land for new companies to move in tax free for the first 3 years-


All of this would take federal bailout that wouldn't have to be paid back as Detroit is fucked financially already through decades and decades of Repukes and Dems alike fucking the city over.

[SpartanDem]

13. Well, I guess they can go down to river with a bucket then

but it cost of a lot money to purify, pump to your house, treat the sewage, and maintain the pipes to do it. DWSD can't afford to give away it's services for free.

[Aerows]

21. And create a public health care emergency in their community

even among the people that do pay their bills.

Talk about short-sighted. It's easy to talk tough about people not paying their sewage bills until you understand that raw sewage causes disease to spread and the children of those who do pay the bills go to school with the children of parents who don't pay the bills and come in contact with kids who don't even live in the same area.... etc.

[freshwest]

35. I wasn't actually making that case. I just feel that Detroit's dilemma is not the fault of the

people whose water is being cut off. Poverty is the problem, including the austerity being visited on the city government there. I'm very big on publicly owned water, power and other utilities, and benefit from it greatly. We also have sufficient social services so that no one's water is being cut off here. Sorry if you and the previous poster felt my comment on the awesome resource that Michigan has within its reach, comes off as dissing the city or its workers. I feel Detroit is being destroyed by some very bad corporate actors.
It should have never gotten to this point, where the OP says that 60% pay on time, which means that 40% cannot, yet there is insufficient means to address this problem other than the most destabilizing one being visited on citizens, denial of water for thirst, bathing, washing and public hygiene. This is a recipe for disaster that the city of Detroit or its workers did not deserve.

[sunnystarr]

16. water water everywhere and not a drop to drink ... (nt)

[FrodosPet]

39. Not until it is treated, anyhow

Unfortunately, that costs money.

Damn those greedy water workers, wanting to get paid.

[sheshe2]

36. Dear Goddess.

The water department stepped up shutoffs in March, and about 15,000 customers had service cut from April to June. Criticism and protests followed, even appeals to the United Nations.

snip

Detroit stopped shutoffs for about a month this summer but they resumed in August after Mayor Mike Duggan encouraged people to put down 10 percent and sign up for a payment plan.

"It could potentially be very devastating" to the water department's budget if the city is ordered to stop shutoffs, director Sue McCormick told the judge.

Carol Ann Bogden said the new policy hasn't helped her. She said she bathes in the sink with water purchased at a store since being cut off in July. She owes $1,120 but lost her identification and has been unable to get into a payment plan.

http://www.chron.com/news/science/article/Judge-to-hear-sides-in-Detroit-water-shutoffs-5771522.php

I think I have lost my faith in humanity. Here ya go America, meet your new landlords. The Kochs. Anyone here want to tell me they are refusing to vote in 2014!

Thank for all the information on the Great Lakes, freshwest!

"* The surface area of the Lakes is larger than: Connecticut, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island and Vermont combined.

* Gallons of fresh water: 6 quadrillion (22.7 quadrillion liters). Enough to submerge the entire continental United States in nearly 10 feet of water."

[freshwest]

43. 'America, meet your new landlords. The Kochs.'

Nothing but voting their lackeys out will stop this. And with their lackeys going to intimidate voters in many states, yes, our vote really matters!

Media defames the poor along with the struggling public sector trying to keep civil society going. And only voting will turn the tide, not gestures of charity on occasion. Some needs last for years.

[sheshe2]

50. I know we will not get them all with our first pass in 2014.

I will say something freshwest, not that you don't already know it. CHANGE TAKES TIME.

Whoever believed that it was going happen overnight was smoking some pretty strong stuff. In the wildest days of my youth I knew we had a fight on our hands. At that time I never saw a peoples like the 1% that would be trying to sell or souls for profit. Yet here we have it.

So people can whine or they can get out and vote. The choice is their's. You want it? Then fight for it and never stop. You vote for it dammit!

Thanks for your post fresh~

[valerief]

6. Are these deliquent customers still getting free water?

According to information attributed to the Michigan Citizen and Detroit television station WDIV, the Palmer Park Golf Club owes the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department $200,000, Joe Louis Arena (where the Detroit Red Wings hockey team plays) $80,000, and Ford Field (home of the Detroit Lions) $55,000. We haven’t seen reports on the city shutting the water on the Lions or Red Wings yet.

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/policysocial-context/24436-water-crisis-in-detroit-who-s-being-shut-off-and-who-s-not.html

[Earth_First]

25. Absolutely!

Thank you for pointing this out!

[sheshe2]

30. Thank you for posting that valerie,

I knew I had read that and was going to find it to post.

[FrodosPet]

47. Commercial customers HAVE been getting shut-off notices

Detroit water department now sending shut-off crews to commercial customers

http://www.freep.com/article/20140709/NEWS01/307090141/Detroit-water-shut-offs-companies-customers

The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department announced Wednesday that it is intensifying efforts to collect unpaid debts from its delinquent commercial customers.

Darryl Latimer, deputy director, said shut-off crews are now mobilizing to go out and cut service to delinquent commercial customers, which make up about 12% of the approximately 90,000 accounts that are at least 60 days past due.

~ snip ~

“Some of those (commercial) customers probably have gotten shut-off notices. We just haven’t moved to shut them off. The contractor couldn’t shut them off,” Latimer said Wednesday. “They’re not equipped to shut off a larger industry like a Ford Field or what have you.”

The department released a list of 40 commercial and industrial accounts with the highest delinquent balances. In addition to mailings, the department is physically posting shut-off notices on those buildings in case they house rentals for apartments or office spaces.

~ snip ~

---------------------------------------------------

Nearly $1 million available for Detroit water customers who've received shut-off notices

http://www.freep.com/article/20140708/NEWS01/307080133/Detroit-water-shutoffs

Thousands of Detroit residents who are facing water shutoffs because they can’t pay their water bill will now have an avenue for assistance.

As Detroit’s water department shuts off more taps, nearly $1 million is now available for low-income customers who need help paying their bills.

The money has been accruing in an account that’s funded by a voluntary program that takes 50 cents from each paying residential customer’s bill, along with varying amounts from commercial customers, said Curtrise Garner with the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department.

People eligible for the Detroit Residential Water Assistance Program must live in single-family dwellings in the city, have received a shutoff notice and be at or below 200% of the federal poverty guidelines or participating in public-assistance programs. For Detroit, that means a household of four making $47,700 or less would qualify for assistance. Preference will be given to seniors.

~ snip ~

[LovingA2andMI]

58. Why Yes, Indeed....

Those CORPORATE DEBTOR CUSTOMERS of the DWSD are getting and will continue to get, FREE WATER. Amazing, right?

[FrodosPet]

66. Looks like you have not done your homework

Detroit water department now sending shut-off crews to commercial customers

http://www.freep.com/article/20140709/NEWS01/307090141/Detroit-water-shut-offs-companies-customers

The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department announced Wednesday that it is intensifying efforts to collect unpaid debts from its delinquent commercial customers.

Darryl Latimer, deputy director, said shut-off crews are now mobilizing to go out and cut service to delinquent commercial customers, which make up about 12% of the approximately 90,000 accounts that are at least 60 days past due.

~ snip ~

[LovingA2andMI]

69. Where's the PROOF this is happening.....

It is none besides a headline in the Corporate on RAG of Gannett Corporation, the Detroit Free Press. No complaints and in fact no other corresponding proof. My homework is that this was a line used in the UN Issued the advisory that Detroit turning off residents water was against the organization principle that WATER IS A HUMAN RIGHT.

Meanwhile, Judge Rhodes have stepped up to hear residents complaints about the water shut offs in the Bankruptcy case......while you are worried by Corporations getting away with the non-payment of bills despite having the clear and present income to pay them, for YEARS ON END....

Carol Ann Bogden recounted Monday the humiliation she experienced in July when a city crew marked her home and turned off her water service for delinquency.

Since her husband died eight years ago, the 68-year-old former nurse said she's struggled financially and with health ailments. She owes $1,123.

"I was really embarrassed. I started to cry," Bogden testified in U.S. Bankruptcy Court on Monday. "I thought that was done and over with back in the second World War."

Bogden was among the residents before U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Steven Rhodes on Monday testifying about hardships that resulted in water shut-offs and the lack of notice and resources offered by the city to get them back on track.

Attorneys for 10 Detroit residents fighting water shut-offs produced the witnesses to convince Rhodes to impose a six-month moratorium that would halt the shut-offs. But attorneys for the city are countering that such an order would be harmful to Detroit and the public.

Rhodes has convened the evidentiary hearing in response to a July lawsuit aiming to block Detroit from continuing the controversial shut-off program for residential customers with delinquent bills. Those behind the suit claim the city isn't doing enough to improve its communication with residential customers with medical emergencies.

Rhodes also heard Monday from others behind on their bills and had water turned off. All said they tried, without success, to get some sort of aid with their bill.

"I'm not looking for free water, I'm just looking for affordability," said Tracy Peasant. "I just want to be able to afford it." The Detroit resident went without water from September 2013 until June over an $8,000 bill that she said was the result of a water leak at a rented residence.

A tearful Peasant said she's on a fixed income of $259 a month, plus an additional $400 from her daughter's part-time job.

Her water troubles began with the landlord she'd been renting from. But it followed her to a new rental property as she attempted to pay the connection fee.

"I didn't know it was going to follow me," she said. "I did everything I could do to try to address the problem."

Peasant said she went multiple times to the DWSD office "trying to get help." She was told she'd have to pay $4,000 get her water back on.

In the meantime, Peasant said, she continued to reside in the home with eight children.

The water department officials, she said, told her "there's nothing I can do for you."

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/wayne-county/2014/09/22/bankruptcy-judge-convene-hearing-detroit-water-shut-offs/16036913/

And you are worried about Corporations and the "Mayor". Disgusting..... Wonder why no Corporations were at this meeting on Monday?

[politicat]

92. They're sending mail. They're not turning off the mains.

It's not like the corporate deadbeats never sat on a bill before. Oh right, that's exactly what's been happening.

[Cal Carpenter]

71. Yep, no mention of them in the article.

So fucked up.

Water is a human right. We have lost any concept of the public good in this country. So water is being cut off to families with few options, or who have slumlords who own the homes they live in. Meanwhile these massive profitable organizations own tens and hundreds of times more money and are somehow above mention.

Class war.

[theaocp]

7. Maybe these fuckers could look into this

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/11/detroit-abandoned-buildings-water_n_4426830.html

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2014/07/21/water-runs-in-thousands-of-vacant-buildings-as-detroit-shuts-off-occupied-homes/

[FrodosPet]

48. Or this

http://www.freep.com/article/20140708/NEWS01/307080133/Detroit-water-shutoffs

[FrodosPet]

8. The Federal Government should pay for residential water and plumbing

Every household gets 1000 gallons plus 100 gallons per person per month, with smart meters to control usage. Extra water only in the case of emergencies or documented need.

Swimming pools, car washing, leaking pipes, and lawn watering should be illegal, with heavy fines and imprisonment for water wasters and people who do not seek plumbing repairs.

All private wells will be expropriated, with the same usage caps and studies performed to determine if they can be used as local municipal sources.

[Travis_0004]

12. What a stupid idea

So a family of 4 gets 1400 gallons of water a month. I guess if you take a shower longer than 6 minutes you have to wait until tommorow to flush the toilet.

Also in most of the midwest there is no water shortage. The cost to filter a gallon of water is cheap, the cost to maintain water and sewage lines are very expensive. People filling up a swimming pool in the midwest dont concern me. Their large water bills help pay maintenance costs.

Also how do you propose to take water from private wells. My well is rated 20 gallons a minute. More than enough for me, but I dont think it would do a good job supplying a city. Plus I think the city has plenty of water in the Ohio river and dont need to bother me.

Im ok subsidizing the first CCF or two but a hard limit makes no sense in places without a shortage.

Got to go. Going to wash my car now.

[FrodosPet]

14. I'm just trying to figure out how to get everyone FREE water

Many people believe that individuals should not have to pay anything for the necessities of life. but the infrastructure must be maintained, and the pumps need power. Everyone should have free residential water, but you cannot give everyone unlimited free water. What incentive, besides shutoff, fines, and prison will keep people from using too much?

Perhaps 1000 gallons is not enough, but in order to conserve resources, and to make it equitable nationwide, it cannot be too high.

[Travis_0004]

24. Give every household 1000 gallons free

Or any number. The exact number isnt important. After the free water they pay for what they use.

The first 'x' gallons are free.
Next 'x' gallons normal cost.
Next 'x' gallons more expensive

Some people will use more water for things like pools and if they are paying for it, I dont see a problem in areas with a water shortage.

Also we can not make water equitable nationwide. I have a well with plenty of water, and I pretty much operate on a closed system. If I use more water it gets treated in my septic, goes into the ground water and gets reused. If I conserve water in Ohio it wont help somebody in California. I do conserve water, take short showers and have a dual flush toilet, so I dont want it to sound like I suport waste but I dont see the need to be super restrictive in a lot of the country.

[aggiesal]

26. In California, we had to ...

live on 55 gallons a day, in the 1990's. That's 1700 gallons a month with 31 days.

It's not that stupid.

I like the idea of subsidizing a set amount per month, and then pay for anything after that.
2500 gallons a month free, then start paying on the 2501 gallon.
You use more than 2500, you pay a progressive amount.

Pick any reasonable amount.

Just a thought.

[NickB79]

28. Your post illustrates how much water we waste in this country

1400 gallons a month, for a family of 4, gives almost 50 gallons per day. Each person gets 12 gallons of water per day.

In many parts of the world, that would be an amazingly large amount of water to use.

Here in the US, where we think it's our God-given right to water our lawns until they're emerald green, take 20-min showers every day, and run dishwashers and washing machines half-full on a daily basis, we gnash our teeth over such thoughts.

With climate change rapidly altering the planet's hydrological cycles, it's not too hard to see a day when there will be water shortages even in the Midwest. Hell, you don't even need a drought to have a water shortage, if the water gets warm enough: http://www.salon.com/2014/08/04/this_is_climate_change_ohios_water_crisis_was_a_manmade_disaster/

Over the weekend, 400,000 people in northwest Ohio were told that their tap water was no longer safe to drink, cook with or bathe in. Water at a treatment plant had tested positive for dangerously high levels of toxins. Residents were warned that microcystis, the bacteria behind the chaos, can cause skin rashes and burns, along with vomiting, diarrhea and liver problems. It’s been known to kill pets and livestock. And boiling water, officials added, only makes the problem worse. Life came, temporarily, to something of a standstill until 9 a.m. Monday when, after extra, precautionary delays, Toledo Mayor D. Michael Collins finally declared the water safe again.

Welcome to life — weird, chaotic, scary, disruptive — in a changing climate. The direct cause of Ohio’s water problems, according to city officials, was likely an algae bloom in Lake Erie. The cause of the algae bloom? In a word: Us.

The lake, the world’s largest freshwater system, has been increasingly overwhelmed by an influx of phosphorus: runoff from industrial agriculture and from urban sewage treatment plants. Meanwhile, summer has been becoming hotter and longer, conditions that promote the algae’s spread. An oft-cited study, published in 2013 in the journal Nature, found that those two factors combined are contributing to an increase in harmful algae blooms — a problem, the researchers added, that’s “only going to get worse.”

Enjoy washing your car. One day our grandchildren and great-grandchildren may think we were crazy for doing so.

[Travis_0004]

44. Do you use only 12 gallons a day?

Ill be honest I dont have any way of measuring watet usage, but I would be its well under average.

So if I drink a gallon, cook with a gallon, average a gallon a day laundry, use another gallon for washing my hands, use 4 gallons in the garden, use 3 gallons in the toilet, I still have time for a one minute shower.

[Dreamer Tatum]

51. And I thought Bush was a fascist. nt

[Dont call me Shirley]

10. Only us corporations get the free water.....

[FrodosPet]

52. That is incorrect

Last edited Tue Sep 23, 2014, 02:29 AM - Edit history (1)

City of Detroit hosts water affordability fair for past-due accounts today

http://www.freep.com/article/20140823/NEWS01/308230075

~ snip ~

Earlier this month, Duggan, who was given authority over the water department’s operations at the end of July, announced a plan making it easier for customers to make payments. People can pay 10% of their bill to avoid shutoffs and enter into a payment program, which may last up to 24 months.

But some customers with delinquent accounts still expressed concerns about being able to pay their bills as they left the fair.

A newly created Detroit Water Fund was also designed to help residents pay their water bills and has nearly $2 million in it, officials said.

No on-the-spot assistance was offered today, but people who qualify may receive 25% toward paying their bills.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Detroit water department now sending shut-off crews to commercial customers

http://www.freep.com/article/20140709/NEWS01/307090141/Detroit-water-shut-offs-companies-customers

The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department announced Wednesday that it is intensifying efforts to collect unpaid debts from its delinquent commercial customers.

Darryl Latimer, deputy director, said shut-off crews are now mobilizing to go out and cut service to delinquent commercial customers, which make up about 12% of the approximately 90,000 accounts that are at least 60 days past due.

~ snip ~

[Dont call me Shirley]

72. That happened after they were getting lashed about it, by the public then the UN.

Glad to hear the people are getting some relief from their water shut offs.

[shenmue]

15. If they just plainly said, "We want poor people to die," they would be laughed out of court

Fucking pigs. Excuse my language, but fucking pigs.

[FrodosPet]

17. Who should pay the expenses to provide water?

Property taxes? The people of Detroit will STILL have to pay then. Landlords will either charge higher rent, abandon the homes, or go bankrupt.

The suburbs? Some are already trying to find cheaper alternatives to "city water". If you give everyone in Detroit free water, will the residents of Oak Park, Royal Oak Township, Southfield, Pontiac get free water as well?

The State of Michigan, through higher sales or income taxes?

The Federal government?

Who should pay the employees, electricity, and suppliers for the Detroit Water and Sewer Department?

[shenmue]

18. FEMA

It is an emergency.

[Aerows]

22. And will spiral into a larger

public health emergency as disease spreads due to raw sewage and lack of clean water.

[FrodosPet]

27. It's a good thing that there are payment plans and assistance programs then

But recognizing that the DWSD is doing everything it can to keep the water on for people, while obeying the state laws, would put a big dent in the ranting about how everyone in the City is dying of thirst and cholera.

This is a government department, NOT a for profit company, folks!!!

[former9thward]

73. You keep on posting about raw sewage.

How exactly is raw sewage going to get into a municipal water system? Not going to happen.

[FrodosPet]

23. Do they pay for everyone's water?

People get shut off all the time, all over the country.

[quadrature]

31. simple solution... Rewilding

turn Detroit into
a moose and elk preserve.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rewilding_(conservation_biology)

[PoliticAverse]

33. If these people can't pay their water bills, how are they going to pay their property taxes? n/t

[GitRDun]

40. I think this is predicament just a slice of the larger picture

No good paying jobs.

Jobs that do exist pay a minimum wage that does not represent a living wage.

Large dead zones due to shipping jobs overseas.

If we were taking care of business at a higher level, these kinds of situations would not exist.

Instead, we'll devolve into blaming the poor for having I-phones but not paying their water bill.

Really discouraging that our elected officials are so small minded.

[ncjustice80]

53. I say raid the police pension fund!

Delicious irony that the population they so abused would be the ones benefitting from the pension fund

[blkmusclmachine]

54. Access to clean, safe drinking water is a basic human right.

[FrodosPet]

65. According to the World Health Organization

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/mdg1/en/

What does sustainable access to safe drinking water & basic sanitation mean?

WHO and UNICEF provide the UN system's monitoring of progress on MDG target 10. The JMP defines safe drinking water and basic sanitation as follows:

. Drinking water is water used for domestic purposes, drinking, cooking and personal hygiene;

. Access to drinking water means that the source is less than 1 kilometer away from its place of use and that it is possible to reliably obtain at least 20 litres per member of a household per day;

. Safe drinking water is water with microbial, chemical and physical characteristics that meet WHO guidelines or national standards on drinking water quality;

. Access to safe drinking water is the proportion of people using improved drinking water sources: household connection; public standpipe; borehole; protected dug well; protected spring; rainwater.

~ snip ~

------------------------------------------------------

There is no requirement in this statement for in-home delivery of running water.

[Monk06]

59. Canada used to be world renowned for high quality public utilities, water, gas, electricity,

highways and our BC ferry system.

Now everything has been outsourced and leased out to private management companies and prices have shyrocketed as service has gone down the toilet. Just as predicted when the socalled Liberal Party privatisers came into power.

Water, electricity and the highway system should be publicly funded and publicly owned.

Anything else is the slow road to corporate slavery.

I didn't mention health care because single payer with private insurers excluded from the market goes without saying. It is the only workable and fair solution.

[FrodosPet]

64. The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department is a branch of the City of Detroit government.

http://www.dwsd.org/downloads_n/about_dwsd/fact_sheet/dwsd_fact_sheet.pdf

~ snip ~

• The Detroit Water and Sewerage Department is a branch of the City of Detroit government. The Department is governed by a seven-member Board of Water Commissioners whose members are appointed by the Mayor. Four commissioners, by City Charter requirements, represent Detroit residents. Three remaining commissioners represent suburban wholesale customers with appointees from Wayne, Oakland and Macomb counties. Board meeting times and locations are posted on the Department's website at www.dwsd.org. Click on the About DWSD button for the DWSD Board of Water Commissioners Meeting Calendar.

~ snip ~

[Monk06]

67. My understanding is that the bankruptsy proceedings have put an appointed City Manager in charge

with private bond holders pulling the strings in the background. The public has no control at this point. Public assets in private hands with return on investment driving the agenda.

That is the opposite of public ownership.

[former9thward]

74. Your understanding is wrong.

The Mayor has taken over the water system and there is no private ownership at all.

[Monk06]

94. Missed the existence of the mayor. I thought a state appointed city manager was in charge.

[former9thward]

95. A new Mayor was elected and took over water this summer.

Detroit Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr took office in March 2013 and signed off on a crackdown that shut off service to nearly 50,000 residential customers who were delinquent in their payments in the last two years. Hundreds protested, and Mr. Orr issued a moratorium that lasted about five weeks and ended on Aug. 25.

This summer, Mayor Mike Duggan assumed responsibility for the water department and said he would waive turn-on fees and late-payment penalties in certain cases; improve notification before a shut off; and provide additional financing options for delinquent customers.

The shut-offs, however, would have to resume, Mr. Duggan said, and they did last month.

http://online.wsj.com/articles/detroit-residents-restore-our-water-1411432107?KEYWORDS=Detroit+water&cb=logged0.4297728075180203

[bl968]

60. The problem is

Access to clean drinking water is a human right. While the Detroit water system does not have to pipe water into people's homes for free, they do have to provide reasonably accessible public locations where people can come to fill up water containers at no cost.

On 28 July 2010, through Resolution 64/292, the United Nations General Assembly explicitly recognized the human right to water and sanitation and acknowledged that clean drinking water and sanitation are essential to the realisation of all human rights.

In November 2002, the Committee on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights adopted General Comment No. 15 on the right to water. Article I.1 states that "The human right to water is indispensable for leading a life in human dignity. It is a prerequisite for the realization of other human rights". Comment No. 15 also defined the right to water as the right of everyone to sufficient, safe, acceptable and physically accessible and affordable water for personal and domestic uses.

How are how those terms defined by the UN...

What is...?

Sufficient. The water supply for each person must be sufficient and continuous for personal and domestic uses. These uses ordinarily include drinking, personal sanitation, washing of clothes, food preparation, personal and household hygiene. According to the World Health Organization (WHO), between 50 and 100 litres of water per person per day are needed to ensure that most basic needs are met and few health concerns arise.

Safe. The water required for each personal or domestic use must be safe, therefore free from micro-organisms, chemical substances and radiological hazards that constitute a threat to a person's health. Measures of drinking-water safety are usually defined by national and/or local standards for drinking-water quality. The World Health Organization (WHO) Guidelines for drinking-water quality provide a basis for the development of national standards that, if properly implemented, will ensure the safety of drinking-water.

Acceptable. Water should be of an acceptable colour, odour and taste for each personal or domestic use. [...] All water facilities and services must be culturally appropriate and sensitive to gender, lifecycle and privacy requirements.

Physically accessible. Everyone has the right to a water and sanitation service that is physically accessible within, or in the immediate vicinity of the household, educational institution, workplace or health institution. According to WHO, the water source has to be within 1,000 metres of the home and collection time should not exceed 30 minutes.

Affordable. Water, and water facilities and services, must be affordable for all. The United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) suggests that water costs should not exceed 3 per cent of household income.

So if people do not have income then the water must be provided for free and in Detroit that is the case for 23% of the population.

[FrodosPet]

86. That sounds like a great idea!

Municipal water faucets at every school, firehouse, police station, community center, and other publicly owned building. The UN/World Health Organization guidelines are completely fulfilled, and there will still be an incentive to pay water bills out of convenience, not necessity.

[frustrated_lefty]

68. This is kindling for riots. <n/t>

[FrodosPet]

76. Are you bringing the kerosene and matches?

I'm not saying this system is perfect. Far from it. But I don't see riots happening over it, when most people who get shut off end up getting it turned back on pretty quickly.

The reality on the ground is: If you are in Detroit, and cannot find any help, you are either not trying, you need to be in a supervised living situation, or are just so mean and hateful that nobody likes you. DWSD and others have programs to help. Neighbors help neighbors with water. There is not mass desertification in Detroit. No widespread cholera epidemic.

Detroit is a city of mostly good people, held hostage by the mobsters in New York, Washington DC, Lansing, and their own neighborhoods. The mayor's office and the people of the DWSD are trying their best with the resources they have available and the legal constraints they are under.

So, are you personally in favor of riots? Do you think Detroiters looting or burning down their neighborhoods will help bring aid and economic opportunity? Do you even live in or near the City of Detroit?

[former9thward]

75. Detroit's infrastructure was built for a city of 2 million.

Including the water system with hundreds of miles of pipes and pumping stations. The population is now 650,000. Which means that streets, water, electricity and everything else designed for 2 million has to be paid for by a population of less than 1/3 that. It is unsustainable.

[Arkana]

83. Jesus Christ. Talk about fucking cold.

[FrodosPet]

85. Not as cold as you think

Please forgive me for ruining a good outrage with facts and practicality.

There are already programs, and more coming, to help poor people with their water bills. But talking about them run contrary to the popular narrative, so they get ignored in favor of wailing, chest beating and riot instigation.

[valerief]

87. Yes, as cold, even colder. How is this compliant with the UN resolution per bl968's post #60?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=901396

[FrodosPet]

89. Does the UN Resolution require in-home delivery?

No, it does not.

http://www.un.org/waterforlifedecade/human_right_to_water.shtml

. Physically accessible. Everyone has the right to a water and sanitation service that is physically accessible within, or in the immediate vicinity of the household, educational institution, workplace or health institution. According to WHO, the water source has to be within 1,000 metres of the home and collection time should not exceed 30 minutes.

[GliderGuider]

84. This is implied in Dmitry Orlov's view of soft (Soviet) vs hard (American) crashes

Orlov holds that the Soviet Union hit a “soft crash” because centralized planning, housing, agriculture, and transportation left an infrastructure private citizens could co-opt so that no one had to pay rent or go homeless and people showed up for work, even when they were not paid. He writes that Orlov believes the U.S. will have a hard crash, more like Germany’s Weimar Republic of the 1920s.

Water comes under the "housing infrastructure" category. Under the American market system, those who can't pay don't receive. In the case of life essentials like water, shelter, and food, this sets the USA up for extremely hard times. Detroit's water problem is a canary in the coal mine.

[FrodosPet]

88. Let it Rip: Duggan takes control of water department

[yurbud]

93. How proud his mother must be

[dipsydoodle]

96. Prick.

Almost as loony as Bechtel stopping people collecting rainwater in Ecuador.