Rebels Down Ukrainian Warplane As Military Equipment ‘Arrives From Russia’

[Purveyor]

Source: France 24

Latest update : 2014-08-17
Pro-Russian separatists shot down a Ukrainian warplane in eastern Ukraine overnight into Sunday, a military spokesman said, as Moscow denied rebel claims that it had sent military equipment across the border.

Local authorities said that at least 10 civilians were killed in the rebel-held city of Donetsk as a fresh round of fighting broke out, involving artillery and mortars, after the insurgents claimed they were receiving fresh stocks of heavy military equipment from Russia and 1,200 fighters.

Moscow sternly denied sending such equipment.

"We have repeatedly said that no equipment is being sent there," Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov told Govorit Moskva radio, but did not mention the rebels' additional claim of receiving a fresh injection of troops trained "on Russian territory".

Read more: http://www.france24.com/en/20140817-rebels-shoot-down-ukraine-warplane-military-arrives-russia/

[TwilightGardener]

1. There should be shitloads of eastern Ukrainian men who want to fight and die for

the "People's Republic of Whatever". Where are they? Why do they have to import fighters?

[reorg]

17. Who has to "import" fighters?

The "insurgents" never claimed such a thing. They said the situation was not hopeless, they had reserves coming in, 1200 fighters who were trained on Russian territory. The report is simply false, based on a "mistranslation" of a speech. The "mistranslation" got around very quickly, as opposed to the correction, apparently.

In his speech, reportedly made on Friday at a “people’s council” and posted on a pro-rebel YouTube channel, Mr Zakharchenko said: “The following reserves have been gathered: 150 armoured vehicles, of which about 30 are tanks and the rest are BMPs and BTRs [infantry fighting vehicles and armoured personnel carriers], 1,200 military personnel, who are there now, who underwent training for four months on the territory of the Russian Federation. They were brought into action at the most crucial moment.”

http://is.gd/yMrpYk

The rebels, he said, had reserves of 150 combat vehicles, including tanks.

An earlier mistranslation of his words suggested Mr Zakharchenko had said the vehicles were on their way from Russia.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28817347

The propaganda technique employed here is obvious and has been employed in Ukraine not for the first time now: Let's interpret incidents on the ground or what our opponents say in a way that seems to confirm what we want to believe and report this as fact. Others will pick up on these "reported facts", and eventually politicians will express their “grave concern” over such reports and at some point urging political action.

[ballyhoo]

19. Their 1200 fighters were supposedly trained in Russia. That may make their allegiance

questionable during a long dragged-out fight. And with the air cover diminishing do they want to
be hit without resistance?

[NickB79]

2. Russia to Rebels: Shut the fuck up! We're trying to get you "humanitarian aid"

[bemildred]

3. They seem to lose a lot of those jets. nt

[NickB79]

4. Mostly old Russian Su-25's

Made to carry a ton of bombs to the battlefield, not so much for dodging Russian 21st-century anti-aircraft missiles (that the rebels just oddly enough have a large supply of that never seems to be depleted...)

[bemildred]

6. Thanks for clearing that up.

It just seemed to me that it happens regularly, I would think they would do something about it, you don't want to run out of jets, but they don't seem to care.

[NickB79]

8. Su-25's went into service in 1978

Granted, they had upgrades along the way, but you can only do so much with a 1970's-designed airframe.

And since it's really all they have for their tiny Air Force, and no one's in a rush to sell them advanced weapons, you use what you got, losses be damned.

I can't imagine how insane or ballsy you'd have to be to fly one of those into combat

[bemildred]

9. A lot of them seem to have working parachutes.

I mean the stories say "the pilot bailed" out a lot.

It makes me wonder how effective they can be though, the SU-25s. Worrying about getting your ass shot off can be distracting.

[NickB79]

11. I imagine the standard weapons load involves bombs, rockets, and a bottle of Vodka

With the Vodka long-gone before the plane makes it to the battlefield!

[bemildred]

13. There you go.

It just seems to me the quantity of munitions one can deliver that way is unlikely to affect the outcome much, especially with the BUKs and whatnot. Meanwhile the jets might prove useful at some later point, if you don't get them all shot down.

Edit: if I remember right, they can be handy for air support, but you want to suppress the AA fire first, like with Warthogs.

[PersonNumber503602]

15. The F-16 and F-15 were put into service in the 70's

and despite a few instances over the past couple of years, they seem to be put to heavy use still.

[Igel]

7. Yup.

And they'll lose more.

http://informator.lg.ua/?p=22948

On 8/16 there are truckloads of Buk missiles heading for the border.

On 8/17 planes start getting shot down again.

Coinkidink?

I guess the alternatives are two: (1) Well, we let them bomb the shit out of us and held missiles in reserve for those installations we proudly say we use as we deny ever having them. (2) We captured truckloads of the missiles as they wandered aimlessly far from any reason for the stupid ukropy and amerikosy to have them. We nationalized them for the glorious fatherland. Glory to Russia!

Because we all know, Lavrov's crew could teach Jesus, Muhammed, and even Confucius a thing or two about speaking the truth.


(And for the loony russist post of the day ... so far:

http://novorossia.su/ru/node/5284
Yesterday the MSM published information that the warriors of Igor Bezler's brigade of Gorlovka "people's militia" destroyed an enemy squad near Gorlovka. Today Ukrainian sources indicate that this was not just any squad, but a group of Ukrainian punishers known as "Jesus Christ's 100", formed by members of the Dmitry Korchinsky Brethren, part of the special battalion "Shakhtarsk." The head of the Odessite Brothers was commanded by Dmitry Lin'ko. The Korchinsky fighters were present in Odessa on May 2 and with out-of-towner pravoseks killed and burned people in the Union Building.

What unites those in Christ's 100 is that most of them are graduates of Jesuit colleges that they rushed to open here and there during the years of independence. Everybody knows what Jesuits are. It's not a secret to anybody that they are the most vicious enemies of Orthodoxy and, consequently, the Russian people that upholds it. It was the Jesuits that made the Poles into such inveterate Russophobes, and now they're doing the same to the Ukrainians.


The #2 post was a long-winded screed about how really Kievan Rus' was okay, but it was really Russians that made Kievan Rus' what it was, bringing order and stability from the north and unifying the people. All good things flow from Russia. Including presumably, Buk missiles that shoot down "ukropy" and planes ... I forget the current "fag-European" abuse words. They vanished from the russist press for the most part when MH17 went splat.

[bemildred]

12. I have no doubts that Russia is arming and supporting the rebels,

if that's what you are getting at.

[cosmicone]

5. Once the air cover is gone

Ukraine will be a sitting duck in a shooting gallery. They are probably running out of supplies already. Time for Svoboda and Right Sektor to lower the Swastika and raise the white flag and be satisfied that they at least got free cookies.

[NickB79]

10. Air cover hasn't done much strategically so far

The rebels have been downing Ukr. jets regularly, with the jets grounded whenever missiles start flying.

The Ukr. forces have done most of the push-back against the rebels using old-fashioned ground forces and artillery.

Ukraine will be a sitting duck in a shooting gallery. They are probably running out of supplies already

Says DU's biggest Putin fan as his side is holed up in a few cities along the Russian border, losing territory daily.

Oh wait, that's right, they're expecting Russian "humanitarian aid" any day now. I'm sure all that "baby food" will turn the tide.

[ballyhoo]

14. What side who is on notwithstanding, I would far rather be

Russian Separatists holded up along the Russian border "in a few cities" than a Ukrainian military person (whatever that is) with a leader whose main activity seems to be beseeching on a daily basis for help. It's getting close to denouement. Let's see who one: Is winning militarily. And two: is creating a better image with the press. The greatest mistake by the West was encroaching on Russia's border for any reason, let alone to appropriate their gas contracts by shutting down supply lines.

[NickB79]

20. "encroaching on Russia's border"

You mean the thousands of square miles of Ukrainian territory that Russia attempted to seize from a sovereign state?

I'm about 300 miles from the Canadian border. Any minute now, tanks will maple leafs on them will be rolling through Minneapolis, saying we "encroached on their border"

Let's see who one: Is winning militarily. And two: is creating a better image with the press

Sure thing, lets do just that:

Nothing shouts "better image with the press" than shooting down an international flight full of men, women and children, right?

[ballyhoo]

21. Like I said: I'll let the Dutch decide MH17 not a bunch of Tweeters whose

damaging tweets are now suspect. The US backing of East Ukraine is not an encroachment of Russia's Border? Possibly you should review what encroachment means. The relationship between Canada and the US, your odd example, is completely different than that between the US and Russia.

[Blue_Tires]

26. Pro-Russian sepratists lost the PR "battle" weeks ago

when they were rummaging through the crash site and preventing crash investigators from accessing it for 72+ hours...

[cosmicone]

16. ummmmm...........

Says DU's biggest Putin fan

Is there a trophy to go with the title? Who were the nominees? Who did I defeat to win the title?

as his side is holed up in a few cities along the Russian border, losing territory daily.

If they are winning, why is Ukraine crying uncle and asking for military assistance?

[NickB79]

18. Ukraine has been asking for military assistance since day one

They'd like to get some outside reinforcements from the US and EU, seeing as the rebels keep getting so much from Russia.

And despite the fact that they HAVEN'T been given them much of anything, they've still pushed the rebels back to a few cities close to the Russian border.

"Crying uncle"? Really?

[cosmicone]

22. Perhaps Poroshenko would spend some of his own money

and get a few more toys to be shot down by the freedom fighters.

[Adrahil]

23. "Freedom Fighters"... that's a good one. NT

[ColesCountyDem]

24. Cute term, isn't it?

If they're 'freedom fighters', then so is Cliven Bundy, since both are in armed rebellion against the legally-constituted government.

[IronGate]

27. You said freedom fighters?

[Owl]

25. This whole thing is a confusing mess.