Atheists, others gather at Reason Rally

[alp227]

Source: washington post

It was, one speaker said, their coming-out moment.

Atheists, non-theists, secularists and others who say they believe in reason, not God, gathered Saturday on the Mall for the first Reason Rally, where they pledged to stand up for their beliefs in a society that they say sometimes views them with skepticism and distrust.

“God is a myth,” said Dave Silverman, president of American Atheists. “Closet atheists, you are not alone.”

Despite intermittent rain, several thousand people gathered on the lawn across from the National Museum of American History to hear a roster of speakers that included comedians, activists and the first openly atheistic member of Congress — Rep. Pete Stark (D-Calif.).

Read more: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/atheists-others-to-gather-at-reason-rally/2012/03/23/gIQAvqY2WS_story.html

[man4allcats]

1. And here's a little Godly Golf for your entertainment:

[Archae]

2. The tragic part about this story...

A national poll said more Americans distrust atheists than they distrust Al-Qaeda.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. They have been taught to. We are evil, because we dare think.

[onwardsand upwards]

4. Rational ignorance

It's very nice to see people standing up for rational thought, which can make a claim to pulling us out of the dark ages of mysticism. Mysticism truly is the most fabulous refuge for scoundrels of all kinds.

The true foundation of rationalism, though, is not atheism -- but ignorance. We simply don't know. We have theories, data, and statistical inference, but we can never know anything for sure. This was Socrates courageous stand, and its a hard one to sell.

Rationalism is a great leveller, though. We're all at the mercy of the smartest, rather than at the mercy of the priests -- and intellegence pervades all classes, races, sexes, sexualities, and so on.

This is still the hope of the future. In the technological age, the nerds rule. I suppose we'll just have to have faith in their average benevolence ...

[LongTomH]

11. "In the technological age, the nerds rule" -- not quite!

The ruling classes regard the nerds and geeks as just smart, useful slaves; good for designing weapons and running the computers.

[onwardsand upwards]

37. Sure

I take your point.

I completely agree that the ruling classes are able to amass armies of smart people for their own nefarious purposes.

However, this is a matter of degree. Rationality is a leveller in the sense that a world in which rationality is allowed to play a role is a world in which smart individuals have an edge.

You can never trust a truly smart person to be a perfect slave.

There is some hope in that ...

[tama]

51. 99% of people

are smarter than averadge. And they all consider themselves rational.

[Celebration]

5. Here is another take on the rally

Rally

Then Dawkins got to the part where he calls on the crowd not only to challenge religious people but to "ridicule and show contempt" for their doctrines and sacraments, including the Eucharist, which Catholics believe becomes the body of Christ during Mass.

................................

Silverman may have gone a bit further in his rhetoric than he intended. In a thundering call for "zero tolerance" for anyone who disagrees with or insults atheism, Silverman proclaimed, "Stand your ground!"

Unfortunately, of course, the phrase "stand your ground," is in the news this week as the legal cover for the killing of Trayvon Martin in Sanford, Fla., last week. Under Florida's "stand your ground" law, George Zimmerman could claim he feared Trayvon, a teen armed with iced tea and Skittles, would harm him.

Silverman meant a verbal, not a literal, call to arms here. Still, the line didn't draw applause as his other take-no-insults charges did.

...............................

Greta Christina, author of Why Are You Atheists So Angry?, attacked every major faith, even the teachings of the Dalai Lama. In a long litany of what makes her angry, she got all the way back to Galileo (overlooking the modern Catholic Church's restoration of his reputation).

[AlbertCat]

13. Under Florida's "stand your ground" law,

Well, there's rational "stand your ground"

And there stupid stand your ground with a loaded weapon.

These are not related at all.

And RATIONAL THOUGHT would make that obvious... of course.

The no tolerance and contempt stuff is just giving as good as you get. There's simply no reason to entertain religious beliefs as worthy of any kind of explanation or solution. There's no reason to show religion any more respect than you would a Grimm fairy tale. Religionists will take offense, but then they do that all the time anyway. It's simply time for religion to lose its special status that it is something serious and useful. It should just be dismissed the way religionists dismiss atheists' claims... when they're ignoring how much science and rational thinking contributes to their well being that they take for granted all the time.

[Celebration]

27. Ridicule and contempt

which is what Dawson calls for, is simply not the answer. End of story.

[OrwellwasRight]

45. You're right. 100%.

Though I hasten to add that "Christians" have shown ridicule and contempt for atheists for years (still do) and have never apologized once.

[Celebration]

49. I know that

as long as you mean "some" Christians.

And, whatever, that is no excuse to react the same way.

[OrwellwasRight]

52. I didn't say it was an excuse.

I said you were right.

I also think that respect should flow in both directions. So I advocate it for BOTH sides.

[marble falls]

64. And visa versa. All haters should just shut up. Even the atheist haters......

the worst abuse I get is from atheists.

[OrwellwasRight]

116. You're right.

Those damn atheists should stop preventing the Christians from running the country. They're so abusive.

[marble falls]

117. If you think that the conservatives are christian as opposed to using "Christians" ...

you got on the wrong boat. They aren't christians and they don't give a poop about "Christianity" further than setting atheists and "Christians" at each other. And the hatred atheists show christians only feeds into the "Conservative" agenda. As an atheist, do you rail against the Jewish, Muslims, Buddhists, too?

Lets stop the hatred right here among ourselves, we're in it together and they are out to get all of us: Jews, Muslims, atheists, christians and Buddhists. We are the center we need to control.

[OrwellwasRight]

118. No, because they don't rail against me.

You better rethink your lecture on hatred till you control yours. Find one post where I have said anything "hateful" toward Christians. Oh, can't find any, then quit calling me out. Instead, just admit that Christians are trying to make atheist follow their rules on sex, abortion, and birth control and be done with it. Your unwillingness to admit that Christians do anything wrong tells me everything I need to know abut how much you really intend to "stop the hatred among ourselves."

[marble falls]

120. And this isn't a hate message ......

"Instead, just admit that Christians are trying to make atheist follow their rules on sex, abortion, and birth control and be done with it. Your unwillingness to admit that Christians do anything wrong tells me everything I need to know abut how much you really intend to "stop the hatred among ourselves." I could make the same statement about atheists or any group. Why do you think "Christians" are a monolithic group? What standard of behavior, other than not slurring any group of 'them', whoever they may be do you think I am "preaching"?

Slurring ALL "Christians" I've had enough of your hatred. If you can't discuss this in a rational manner, I withdraw.

[OrwellwasRight]

121. Right, no Christian have ever slurred atheists,

or burned them at the stake, or otherwise tortured them to death? But I am the one who can't discuss this in a rational manner?

I never said Christians were a monolithic group. I said that Christians are trying to control the law on abortion, sex, and birth control. It's true. And, I'm sorry, can you quote where I used the word "all"?

Just because "you" may not be, doesn't mean no Christian is. Which leads me back to my statement: Your unwillingness to admit that Christians do anything wrong tells me all I need to know about how much you intend to "stop the hatred amongst ourselves."

Nope, Christians must be perfect since you can;t admit they've every spread any hate. If it weren't for all the damn atheists controlling the country and making the rules, this country would be hate-free, right? Yes, Pete Stark the one atheist allowed in Congress is screwing it up for everyone else.

Even the church will tell you no Christian is without sin. Too bad you can't even start there.

[snooper2]

66. Yes it is, people need to let their stupid beliefs be known..

You eat a wafer which is the fingernail of jesabus?

speak in tongues?

Believe a “god” created a fucking planet


Yes, ridicule is the right answer. But it’s going to take hundreds of years and eventually enough generations will pass where belief in sky fairies will be would it should be, a fairy tale.

[Celebration]

81. Oh another person neglected to learn

"You can catch more flies with honey."

[snooper2]

82. Nah, not on this issue...

[LTX]

115. But of course, you believe in your own versions of "sky fairies."

The need for abstract, explanatory constructs seems to be an emergent property of its own, and it emerges in rather many forms.

[underpants]

6. I missed the news coverage of this yesterday

I didn't have CNN on for the 20 seconds that they dared to mention it

[onehandle]

7. It's good to see the faith of Atheism finally coming together for services.

It's nice to see people practicing what they preach.

[dmallind]

10. I love it when people try to insult atheism by calling it a faith.

It means they think,whether they admit it or not even to themselves, that faith is a pejorative.

Utterly idiotic claim, but telling nonetheless.

[Zax2me]

12. It's because religions are insulted.

You cannot insult religions then not expect to be insulted as a 'faith' right back.
If you point a finger, a finger might be pointed back.
Don't complain you are being attacked while attacking.
It's called leading by example.
If your problem is other religions being 'forced' on you, that one should practice religion in your own house - leave my house out of it - then don't stand on your athiest 'pulpit' either.
Keep it in YOUR house.
Freedom of religion is just that.
Live.
Let live.

[AlbertCat]

14. Live. Let live.

While enjoying all the benefits rational thinking has brought you....

Rationalism will always have that one-up on religion... even if they chose to ignore it. Ungrateful jerks...

[AlbertCat]

15. Don't complain you are being attacked while attacking.

Be sure to do the same!

Your argument is as irrational and unthinking as religion has made you.

(Like the playing field is level! )

[JoeyT]

16. Lol.

Atheists existing in public = shoving religion down throats.
Christians demanding access to children with no regard to parental preferences = Not shoving religion down throats, apparently.

We're all sorry you has a sad, but we're not going away.

By the way, you sound like one of the people that scream "REVERSE RACISM!!!!!!!111" all the time.

Edited to add: Reverse shoving religion down throats!!!!

[OrwellwasRight]

48. I'm sorry, religions are insulted by the existence of atheism?

Or by atheists being proud of atheism? What exactly is insulting?

Live and let live goes both ways. Don't tell me I can't have an abortion because of your religion. And don't tell me that homosexuality is a sin. Don't try to control my life and I won't try to control yours.

And don't tell me all atheists deserve to be insulted (because that is what your post implies). That's hogwash and you know it.

[callous taoboy]

62. Live and let live?

Tell that to the uber-religious FREAKS I work with. While I am private about my atheistic beliefs, one cannot escape speculation in this small town when one is not a church-goer. The shit I have had to put up with, the catty comments, the "I pray for you every Sunday" comments, the being passed over for promotion by our pious / self-righteous leader. The Jesus-freaks have made me a stronger atheist, and I applaud Dawkins and this recent show of
strength among atheist. Live and let live, indeed. No more.

[snooper2]

68. So what do you believe in? You follow one god or multiple?

Any cool rituals you get to perform?

You get to slay people for fun?

[KansDem]

119. You must have forgotton the GHW Bush quote of 1987.

I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

http://www.notable-quotes.com/b/bush_george_h_w.html

Now, what were you saying about religions being insulted?

[onehandle]

18. Belief and Non-Belief are both believing.

And neither can be proved.

Therefore, both are faith.

And when you get a bunch of people together of the same faith...

[Humanist_Activist]

25. You require no faith to not believe something until evidence comes in...

do you have faith that Zeus doesn't exist?

[onehandle]

30. I've stated no absolute faiths.

And I'm not the kind of person who walks up to a microphone, states one, and waits for an 'Hallelujah.'

I leave that to people who wear their faiths on their sleeve.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Humanist_Activist]

31. Oh, you are creating a strawman, ok, I see, why not deal with real people in the real world?

Instead of making shit up about other people you don't know?

[onehandle]

42. Amen. Tell it like it is! nt

[Humanist_Activist]

67. I know you are attempting to mock, you are also failing badly. n/t

[onehandle]

79. I forgive you, brother.

I have faith that nothingness does as well.

[onwardsand upwards]

36. Nice point

There's an important distinction between believing that a god does not exist (ie atheism) and not having a belief that god exists (ie doubt).

The first requires faith, the second does not.

[jeff47]

55. You're wrong.

Atheists don't have a belief that God exists. It's the most difficult thing for theists to understand about atheists.

[onehandle]

78. Do you have faith in your statement? nt

[Humanist_Activist]

65. Atheism is not having a belief that god exists, it is doubt, how can you misrepresent it this badly?

[jeff47]

80. Doubt = agnostic

Atheists don't have doubt.

[Humanist_Activist]

85. Really? Agnostic = without knowledge...

I do not have knowledge that a god exists(agnostic) so therefore I have no belief that one exists(atheist). Know your terms before you post.

[jeff47]

90. Back at ya

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/agnostic

a person who holds the view that any ultimate reality (as God) is unknown and probably unknowable; broadly : one who is not committed to believing in either the existence or the nonexistence of God or a god

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/atheist

one who believes that there is no deity

One can not be both agnostic and atheist. Because agnostics believe there is the possibility that God exists, since the truth is unknowable. An atheist doesn't believe there's a possibility that God exists.

If "there is no deity" then there is no possibility that God exists and you aren't agnostic.

[Humanist_Activist]

100. You last sentence is nonsensical, basically you mean that all agnostics have to be theists...

The definition you state for atheism assumes a god exists in fact, but that atheists deny this fact. In addition, I have yet to hear from or meet any atheists(even Richard Dawkins) who doesn't believe there is a possibility that a god/gods exists, we just don't see any evidence for it at this time.

[jeff47]

102. You do realize the post is still there, right?

I have no idea how you came to that conclusion.

The definition for atheism says nothing about God actually existing. It's right there. It's one, brief sentence. Where, exactly, does it require God to actually exist?

[Humanist_Activist]

103. Sorry, misread it, however, the my other point still stands, your last sentence is nonsensical. n/t

[jeff47]

105. You're welcome to petition the dictionary folks to change their definition. (nt)

[Humanist_Activist]

108. I'm just saying if you stick with the dictionary definition, then atheists don't exist...

or at least 99.9% of atheists who call themselves that wouldn't qualify, at least how you termed it.

[pscot]

38. Sophistry

Is that all you got?

[and-justice-for-all]

41. That is absurd...

I do not have faith that god(s) do not exist, there is no evidence at all that supports the notion of the existence of such things; faith is something that one uses when there are no facts (evidence) to support their belief, with all the evidence that we have seen in the many scientific discipline there is yet to be a single piece to show the existence of a invisible man in the sky, such things do not exist and if you want to believe that they do your going to need 'faith' because there is no empirical evidence that proves otherwise.

[onehandle]

44. I can believe that or not.

My faith is infinite and non-existent.

[scheming daemons]

57. The absence of something is not the same as something

Atheism is the absence of faith.


Your statement is nonsensical.


That's like saying that people with a full bank account and people with an empty bank account are both rich.

[onehandle]

61. No. Atheism is denying the existence of God.

An Atheist has formed their opinion based on their faith that there is no God.

Some people have faith that UFOs have never been here.

Some people have faith that UFOs come and go like busses.

Some people have faith that it could go either way because they have witnessed neither.

[Humanist_Activist]

69. So not only are you misrepresenting atheism, but skepticism in general?

Keep on failing!

[scheming daemons]

84. sorry.. you don't get to redefine the english language to suit your needs

See... The "a" in front of "theism" means something.

"Theism" means of or pertaining to faith. The "a" in front of the word means the ABSENCE of such.

Asexual means LACKING sexuality. The absence of sexuality.

Amoral means having NO morals.

Atypical means the OPPOSITE of typical.


Atheism is the absence of theism. Theism = faith. Atheism = absence of faith.


English is pretty basic in this area. If you want a word that means the opposite of another word, you put an "a" in front of it.


In fact, Webster's defines atheism as a "disbelief in the existence of deity".

Disbelief is the OPPOSITE of belief.



You can try to twist the language to suit your agenda, but the bottom line is that atheism is a belief in the same way that baldness is a hair color.

[onehandle]

88. Right one is belief in God. One is belief in no God.

I have faith in belief and belief in faith.

No, wait...

[Humanist_Activist]

89. No, one is a belief in a god, the other is a lack of(non) belief in a god. n/t

[scheming daemons]

91. that's simply not the definition in any english dictionary

Repeating it over and over again does not make it true.

The definition is a "disbelief" in god, not a "belief in no god". Those are two very different definitions.

And you know it, which is why you continue to lie.

Disbelief is the opposite of belief.


Again.. You don't get to redefine english to suit your agenda.


The word atheism has a very distinct meaning. It is not the meaning you have ascribed to it.


When you resort to redefining a word to suit your agenda, then you have lost the argument.

[JNelson6563]

58. Ok, really?

It takes the same amount of faith to believe in something as to not believe in something??

Um, no.

Julie

[callous taoboy]

63. I couldn't disagree more.

[snooper2]

71. Do you think white dwarfs exist? Do you know anything about the inner core?

Can your god pass through the inner core?


I put odds on a reply from onehandle at 14% LOL

[onehandle]

75. I have a God? Please prove they exist or don't exist.

I put odds on you accomplishing this task at 0%.

[snooper2]

76. LOL ROFL

It's a fact, the concept of a "god" was created by human brains which couldn't understand the wonders of the universe. They are imaginary stories, creations, just like Stay Puft

Do you want me to prove that Stay Puft (as shown in the movie not the dolls you can find at any goodwill) isn't real as well?





How about Freddy, do I need to explain how he's a story line as well (just like Jesus or Zeus), Are you worried Freddy will come get you at night LOL

[onehandle]

77. Never met the gentlemen. (although Gozer took female form)

Do they exist? Maybe. Definitely. Doubtful. Absolutely.

I have no faith either way.

I possess no proof, therefore I am Agnostic on the matter.

[scheming daemons]

86. scientifically, the burden of proof is always on those making the positive assertion

If you say a giant purple dragon lives in your garage, the burden of proof is on YOU to back up the assertion.

The default position for anything, any entity, is non existence, unless proven otherwise.

The burden is always on the person making the claim.

If you say that leprechauns exist, the burden is on YOU to prove it, not on me to disprove it.

[onehandle]

87. I have never asserted any such thing.

But I have not been in my garage in a couple of months, and I have never been to Ireland, so who am I to say?

[scheming daemons]

92. now you are just being silly

You know that I was referring to the generic "you" and not you specifically.

Here, I'll be clearer since you want to play games:

The burden of proof for extraordinary claims is on the person making the claims.. It is not on others to disprove his or her claims.

The burden of proof with regard to god's existence rests on those making the claim, not on others to disprove it.

[scheming daemons]

93. Another way to put it

Just as in law we have the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".... in other words, innocence is the default position and guilt must be proven....

In science, an entity is non-existent until proven existent. The default position is the negative... and the positive assertion must be proven.

The burden of proof with regard to the existence of a supreme being is scientifically on those claiming existence.

Atheism is the default position. No beliefs. Any state of "belief" has the burden of proof on it.

[Arugula Latte]

113. Wrong. Faith is belief without proof.

Non-believers are not pulling stuff out of their backsides and calling it fact. They are simply saying they do not believe in non-factual make believe based on myth and superstition.

[onehandle]

114. Do you believe there is no God?

Is that a fact?

[valerief]

20. Faith is what atheists find repugnant. nt

[and-justice-for-all]

43. No, actually its irrationalism and dogmas

that cause people to believe absurdities and nonsense which not only do harm to themselves, but also to others. Religion and dogma are dead weight that society contunies to drag around and allow to hinder progress.

[valerief]

54. Faith means no reason. nt

[jeff47]

56. No, the imposition of faith is repugnant.

Such as stamping "In God We Trust" on all of our currency. 'cause everyone believes in God, right?

[valerief]

112. No. Believing something with no evidence for no good reason is repugnant. That's faith. nt

[and-justice-for-all]

46. Fail.

[fasttense]

8. Religion has been the cause of thousands of wars and battles throughout world history

I know of not one war caused by Atheism. Yet Atheists are the ones most people distrust.

[onehandle]

19. Stalinism and Maoism was not Atheism, but millions of religious people did die.

Atheism was a political convenience. War is not always defined by men in suits and uniforms in a room of diplomacy.

[valerief]

21. Religion's purpose is to keep laborers ignorant. nt

[onehandle]

23. Nothing to do with me. nt

[gadjitfreek]

9. I was there, standing right up at the front.

PZ Myers said it best...the religious want to shut us up. They don't want us to express our frustration with the fact that mythology is driving policy in this country. There were more than 20,000 of us there and the media coverage was about what I expected...pretty much nothing. We are in serious danger of becoming a theocracy and anyone who is religious is complicit in this. We all gathered to stand up for everyone who does not want to be beaten over the head with a Bible and told how to live based on, once again, mythology. It was a wonderful gathering, everyone was nice to each other, the messages for the most part positive. Questioning religion threatens to rip through the tissue-paper thin veneer of "credibility" that belief in the supernatural really is and thus the faithheads fight back with everything they have in attempt to discredit us so that they can maintain their happy illusion.

Tim Minchin performed this particular song...it's worth a listen.

[valerief]

22. I don't think we need to fear becoming a theocracy. I'm pretty sure we are one now. nt

[valerief]

24. Minchin's song was terrific, btw! Thanks for the link. nt

[mimi85]

26. loopholes

I woke up fortuitously at 3:30am this morning & had the pleasure of watching Chris Hayes' show on MSNBC...which I have never watched before. I have a terminal illness among other fun chronic immune issues & had been thinking of "looking for loopholes" in the bible as WC Fields was said to have done on his deathbed. Horrifying thoughts of autopsies, suicide & cremation made me quickly turn on the TV.

His guests were several well-known "freethinkers." No doubt the show was inspired by the Reason Rally yesterday. After the show I did my usual lurking on here and found this. I consider it a sign that I don't need to start looking for loopholes. Besides, I don't own a bible. Thank you for this video as laughing beats crying these days.

[classof56]

28. I recorded and watched Chris' show this morning, as I do every weekend.

Good discussion, always glad to see fellow freethinkers, though I do have some issues with the focus on making fun of specific religious practices. Glad the show was helpful for you--it was for me.

Take care and many blessings.

[Overseas]

17. K&R. Glad to hear it.

[SpankMe]

29. I consider myself an atheist/reasonist.

But, I don't think that all people who believe in a higher power are nutbags. Some of the smartest people I know - and quite liberal, even - are believers of one type or another. And, they're nice.

I like the title "Reason Rally". It's positive and non-antagonistic to the god-crowd. We should focus on this approach rather than on the Christopher Hitchens approach, which could be quite caustic and insulting.

The focus or theme of atheist movements in the US ought to be getting all vestiges of religion out of government and getting fewer religious people elected. The threat of religion really lies in religious types with the power of the state, and not just those who privately believe.

[onehandle]

40. Nah. You should be smug and insulting.

Keep the faith and burn the 'enemy' in effigy.

That'll get religion out of politics.

[sakabatou]

32. I think AronRa and Seth (of The Thinking Atheist) were invited as speakers

Don't know for sure.

[mother earth]

33. Being reasonable is direly needed in the atheist community. I am glad to see it being

practiced, my self being prone to doubt without the audacity to claim certainty, offering proof of nothing and tolerance of everything.

May reason and tolerance be practiced openly and in abundance...for all, atheists and non-atheists alike.
Above all, may acceptance and tolerance defeat ignorance and hate.

Amen.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. tolerance of everything? Seriously?

I don't think you meant that.

[mother earth]

50. I mean there is a lack of tolerance in this rally. I'm all for freedom of speech and for all to

express their religious or lack of religious belief, but it appears there was a call to hate. Fear and hate go hand in hand, whether it's on the right, in the "religious" majority or by atheists.

My earlier response meant the Reason ralliers are mirroring what it is they complain of.

[Warren Stupidity]

53. So we shouldn't tolerate everything. What is intolerable?

[mother earth]

60. The call to ridicule and show contempt. It's the same thing Limbaugh does, Coulture,

Palin, tea partiers, skinheads, etc. It's a call that incites hatred and violence. I'm all for separation of church and state, and I believe churches should be taxed because they have become ultra-political. I can see why atheists want tolerance for themselves, but hate is hate.

[Humanist_Activist]

70. Oh please, comparing them to those groups? Look at how unreasonable you sound. n/t

[mother earth]

94. Hate is hate. You know I listened to video and was finding much of it quite reasonable til we got to

this area. Now, I'm no religious fanatic. I can understand atheists feeling much of religion is dogma and feeling frustrated that they are looked down upon for their beliefs. I find much of the arguments against religion compelling. I find much of religion to be lacking and do not understand a God that punishes. I don't think either is right, how about that?

But a reason rally looses its reason when it compels hatred and ridicule. Do you really need either when or if you are right?
I think not.

[Humanist_Activist]

101. I didn't see the hate, you are confusing attacks on beliefs with attacks on people. n/t

[snooper2]

72. No call to hate, just to mock and ridicule, and maybe even feel sorry for them

I mean really..


Knowing that your body it LITERALLY made of star dust isn't enough for you. You have to go out and follow wild crazy stories written thousands of years ago by old men

There's no hate there, Light mocking, and actually a little pity....


I drove by a church near my house yesterday and saw all the cars in the lot and thought Jesus! If only I had those numbers Then I was thinking of all the productive things those humans could be doing with their spare time

[mother earth]

96. So you are going to devote (waste) your time to mock & ridicule? And you pity them????

[jeff47]

83. Unfortunately, "live and let live" has not worked.

Unfortunately, there's lots of theists who refuse to go along with that plan. So we're going to need aggressive atheists to fight them.

It would be nice if we could "just all get along", but that would require the theists to stop trying to ram their religion into government.

[mother earth]

97. You have a great point, separation of church and state...but, sinking to the level and idiocy of

the religious right is fighting crazy with crazy, if you believe they are that. Seems the wiser approach is to promote separation of church and state. Does a wise man mock and ridicule? I think a wise man uses his time, energy and intellect which would leave mockery and ridicule to the idiots who practice it daily & we know who they are (refer to earlier post).

[jeff47]

98. We've done exactly what you propose for decades

And the situation has only gotten worse.

While these tactics my be unpleasant, they're at least not the same old tactics that have failed.

[mother earth]

99. The failure is in the fight...you don't understand the crusader mind.

Separation of church and state will never be won through ridicule and mockery.
Mockery and ridicule are bullying tactics, and it's exactly what comes across to the public.
Comedians can get away with it, but if you want something lasting it will be won through reason.
Good title for the rally, sad it got sidelined and ultimately the message is minimized & lost.

[and-justice-for-all]

39. I was there the entire day...

took a charter bus from Indianapolis, and it was well worth attending and I am very happy to have been apart of it all. This was not just a rally for Atheists, it was a rally for Secularism and to show up in force to display that we are not going to stand idlely by and not be heard anymore.

[onehandle]

47. Sometimes it takes a lifetime to make it to Mecca.

Or Israel.

I take an hour long train every Tuesday just to enjoy a beer with my brethern at Drinking Liberally.

Praise the rails!

[JNelson6563]

59. Likening it to a pilgrimage?

Wow. Throughout this thread you seem to be running rather scared. Does atheism scare you? Is your faith so weak that the notion of atheism is just so insulting you can't tear yourself from this thread?

Wow.

Julie

[Locrian]

74. arguing

Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise, there wouldn't be religious people.
Doris Egan, House M.D., The Right Stuff, 2007

[zinnisking]

73. In the history of our country there has only been one open atheist in Congress?

.< disbelief >

Well at least we're progressing, however slowly.

[Neoma]

95. Who?

[zinnisking]

104. What

???

[Neoma]

106. Who was the only atheist?

Is what I meant. But I googled it, nevermind.

[zinnisking]

107. K

It's also in the last paragraph of the op.

[JNelson6563]

109. Pete Stark!

He was great during the Bush II years! Went on CNBC and nearly made them cry! Called Bush a fascist and all manner of telling it like it is. Left 'em sitting in their own poop crying, quite a thing to behold! Even tho' I'm in MI I called his DC office after that and told them I said "BRAVO!" to everything the Congressman had said.

When that interview ended I was like "I need a cigarette..."

Julie

[zinnisking]

111. hehehe

Thanks for sharing, so vividly. I feel like I was there with you. "...ahh, relieved"

[Boudica the Lyoness]

110. Wonderful. I'd like to see more of this.

There is such ignorance in the U.S.

Back in the 70's some people I worked with were going on about church and such. When I casually mentioned I was an atheist, the shit hit the fan. I was taken by surprised by the ignorance. Some people got up and left the room to get a way from me. Other's thought I was a devil worshiper. I'll never forget that conversation because it was my first and last open discussion about religion in the U.S.

I tried to explain to them that I don't believe in the devil because it's nonsense, just like the god thing. One lady asked me who I thanked when I watched a beautiful sunset. One bright spark announced, "I heard you say 'Oh God' once. You must believe in Him." I reminded Bright Spark that I also say "Oh shit", but I don't worship shit. This got a few chuckles.

When the crowd dispersed, the Sunset Lady privately told me her dad was an atheist and he was a good man. Another lady suddenly became my new best friend. I understand it's because of the ignorance that atheists keep it quiet.

We need to speak up more. We are good people.