Ron Paul slams US on Crimea crisis and says Russia sanctions are 'an act of war.'

[another_liberal]

Source: The Guardian

The former Republican congressman and three-time presidential candidate Ron Paul has launched a scathing attack on what he calls a US-backed coup in Ukraine, insisting the Crimean people have the right to align their territory with Moscow and characterising sanctions against Russia as “an act of war”. He also said providing economic aid to Ukraine was comparable to giving support to rebels in Syria knowing it would end up in the hands of al-Qaida.

The libertarian guru’s remarks in an interview with the Guardian are almost diametrically opposed to those of his son, the Republican presidential hopeful Rand Paul, who has called for stiff penalties against Russia and declared: “If I were president, I wouldn’t let [Russian president] Vladimir Putin get away with it.”

Ron Paul, who retired from his Texas congressional seat in 2012, has always adopted a sceptical view of US foreign interventions. He said that although the US had not been involved in any military overthrow of the government in Kiev, it had facilitated a coup in the sense of “agitating” elements who wanted to usurp Ukraine’s former president, Victor Yanukovych.

“The evidence is pretty clear that the NGOs [non-governmental organisations] financed by our government have been agitating with billions of dollars, trying to get that government changed,” he said. “Our hands are not clean.”

(snip)

Read more: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/15/ron-paul-crimea-russia-sanctions-act-of-war

---

Don't you just hate it when one of these guys makes sense for a change? I guess he was against the Iraq War too, even when only a handful of politicians of either party dared to speak in opposition.

"Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."

[FrankFarmerMan]

1. The guy is nucking futs. I didn't hear him bitching about Afghanistan or Iraq!

[another_liberal]

3. I am not going to waste my time defending Ron Paul.

He did oppose the Iraq War, but I'll leave it to you to look up his comments, if you are really interested.

[FrankFarmerMan]

6. My bad. You are correct. Thanks for noticing my error. But he's still an idiot, and Rand is worse.

[another_liberal]

11. I would never vote for either Paul . . .

However, a man I would love to vote for, Congressman Dennis Kuchinich, recently had much the same things to say about our actions in Ukraine:

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/russia-ukraine-covert-operations-Dennis-Kuchinich/2014/03/04/id/556082/

[AtheistCrusader]

13. Kucinich and Paul are friends.

They spar over some social issues, obviously, but on foreign policy they are of similar mindset.

I remember seeing some Kucinich/Paul 2008 stickers around my hometown at one point, actually. They never collaborated in that manner of course, but the idea was pretty funny. They could take turns dismantling and re-building the entire government in diametrically opposite positions every week.

[calimary]

53. Welcome to DU, FrankFarmerMan!

Glad you're here! Freakin' ding-dongs both of 'em. Glad he's finally given up trying to be the Harold Stassen of the modern era. You were NEVER gonna be president even if you campaigned for the rest of your life, ron paul.

[muriel_volestrangler]

20. You already did defend him - you said he is right (nt)

[AtheistCrusader]

37. On a single issue.

It's a way of deferring the rest of his platform, like closing schools, throwing old people out on the street, and letting poor people die on the front porch of the ER.


On THIS issue, he's great. Everything else? Sucktastic.

[JackRiddler]

45. Oh horrors! Alert, alert!

Emergency on all planets! Someone agrees on something with Ron Paul! Halp!

[another_liberal]

70. In regard to our interference in Ukraine, yes.

I do think he is right on that issue. There is little else I agree with him about, I assure you.

[AtheistCrusader]

12. Actually, Monkey Pancakes was against both wars, and vocally so, even during the

2008 primary, much to the boo's of the republican audience.

Paul isn't the only right wing anti-war voice, but he is by FAR the loudest, and most durable, and has the largest following of any anti-war right-winger.


He's a freakshow for sure, but his anti-war stuff is top notch.

[billhicks76]

83. Uh Wrong

Ron Paul is consistently anti-war. Always. Unlike 95% of our soulless bought and paid for leaders on the war machine payroll. His son is an idiot but even an idiot can manipulate votes these days when so many of our leaders are 100% on the wrong side of issues like NSA spying. I can't believe Democrats are allowing these shills to co-opt winning issues except that maybe they are profiting themselves or ate being blackmailed into their nefarious votes. Rand just sink himself by supporting a bill to force Obama to go after marijuana prosecutions. What a lowlife he is... I would never support him but I put those defending the NSA or opposing legalization in the same category of filth I put Rand in. Ron is an old man with old way thinking but anyone who stands against all these evil wars deserves not to be bashed as much as he is. The military industrial complex views him as an enemy more formidable than most every other politician and that alone says something.

[warrior1]

2. shut up old man (ron)

[BeyondGeography]

4. He seems a little tentative on foreign affairs to me

After the world stopped laughing at a President Ron Paul, it would take everything that wasn't nailed down. Oh, I know, that's what we do...

[another_liberal]

7. I am no fan . . .

Yet he is right about much of what he says here (with at least one notable exception being his characterization of sanctions against Russia as an "Act of war&quot .

[BeyondGeography]

10. Sorry, but he infantilizes the anti-thug Yanukovych Ukranians

Apparently, they never had a thought to protest until we put it in their heads.

The average Ukrainian makes less than one-third per year what the average Polish citizen makes. Many of them are tired of watching people at the top take what amounts to Russian bribes to stay in Moscow's orbit while other more independent countries prosper. They didn't need our encouragement to know they were being screwed.

[another_liberal]

17. It is my understanding that we got involved only after . . .

Last edited Sat Mar 15, 2014, 09:25 PM - Edit history (1)

Yanukovich turned against taking the EU deal, which was far less generous than he had hoped for. Until that time, though he was just as corrupt, we were not working for his overthrow.

[EX500rider]

5. Yes, some right wing kook agrees with you....yeah! lol n/t

[another_liberal]

8. Be careful how you gloat . . .

His right wing kook of a son seems to largely agree with your position on the same situation.

[EX500rider]

9. You mean the rest of the worlds opinion?

And what is my position exactly? Could you teach this mind reading to others or is inbred?

[another_liberal]

15. From the comments of yours I have read . . .

Correct me if I misunderstood, but you did seem to be in favor of our supporting the so-called "interim government" in Ukraine, and you have expressed a desire to confront Russia forcefully in regard to Crimean breaking away from the central government, right?

[EX500rider]

16. I think Russia ought to not be stealing land from her neighbors.

A sentiment most share.

I don't think we have a CIA coup in progress like you do.


Here's the Aljazeera time line....please point out the "coup" part or the CIA part:


http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/03/timeline-ukraine-political-crisis-201431143722854652.html

I do see this:

Feb 22: Ukraine politicians vote to remove Yanikovich. Tymoshenko is freed from prison and speaks to those gathered in Kiev. May 25 is set for fresh presidential elections.

Do most coups involve Parliament voting on it? lol

Coup:"A coup d'état (/ˌkuːdeɪˈtɑː/; French: blow of state; plural: coups d'état), also known as a coup, a putsch, or an overthrow, is the sudden deposition of a government, usually by a small group of the existing state establishment—typically the military—to depose the extant government and replace it with another body, civil or military."

Are you suggesting the government deposed itself in a vote? lol

I am afraid words like "Coup" and "Fascist" have actual real meanings, not just what ever apparently pops into your head.

Just to be helpful:

"Fascists seek to unify their nation through a totalitarian state that promotes the mass mobilization of the national community."

[another_liberal]

21. We have covered this ground many times before . . .

But briefly:

On Friday, February 20th, Yanukovich, as part of the truce deal he had signed the day before, removed his police from the streets of Kiev. This allowed radical, violent protesters to storm the Rada Parliament building and force all of the pro-Yanukovich majority there to either flee for their lives or immediately change their affiliation to one of the opposition parties. This left a bare quorum of legislators who (still under the threat of violence from fascists like "Right Sector" members) took the illegal actions which supposedly removed President Yanukovich from office. That was a coup.

[EX500rider]

30. I don't see any of that in the timeline...you have a RT timeline maybe?

[another_liberal]

49. I don't rely on fabricated "timelness" . . .

I have a memory.

[EX500rider]

51. I'll take Aljazeera's timeline over your memory, thanks.

[another_liberal]

73. I was reading about the events as they happened.

I'm sure "timelines" are useful to those who may not have been.

[EX500rider]

97. Yeah I bet RT kept you up to date. lol

[ForgoTheConsequence]

47. So which right wing "kooks" are you aligning with?

Ted Cruz and John McCain?

[EX500rider]

50. I'm in the Russia shouldn't steal her neighbors land camp.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

52. So McCain and Cruz.

Got it.

[EX500rider]

54. So you're in the let Russia take what ever she wants camp i see..

[ForgoTheConsequence]

57. I haven't made a statement either way.

But I'm not the one directing snarky comments at those who may agree with a "kooky right winger" on one issue.....it's a a bit hypocritical on your part.

[geek tragedy]

66. By the same token, no one is posting

statements from Cruz in order to voice their agreement with Cruz. Those who promote Ron Paul and his love of Putin deserve the mockery.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

68. Ok? You're still on the same page as Ted Cruz and John McCain.

Direct quotes not needed when you share talking points and a common mindset. Are you still posting from under your desk?

[geek tragedy]

75. I do not share a point of view with Ted Cruz and McCain. I favor President Obama's approach,

recognizing that war and escalation are not in our interest, while also not being a sycophant for a foreign tyrant.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

94. Could have fooled me.

The President is approaching this with finesse and thoughtfulness, you're flapping your gums and bringing back republican insults from before the invasion of Iraq.

[geek tragedy]

95. people with actual responsibility have been known to approach matters with

greater thoughtfulness than internet commenters

[ForgoTheConsequence]

96. Within the last 6 years maybe.

Before that, not so much.

[EX500rider]

92. I'd only be a hypocrite if i also posted what Rush Limpballs or other RW wackos thought. n/t

[mpcamb]

14. Well, what are we waiting for? Let's send an armed cadre of over-70 Congressmen over

and settle this thing.

[bemildred]

18. Send in McCain!!! nt

[Catherina]

24. We already did! And PNAC McCain promised them billions only to be pissed off

that the Congress won't sign off on the IMF language he, the rest of the neocons and neolibs are trying to FORCE in the Ukraine Aid vill.

Why here he is with Nazi leader Oleh Tyahnybok

[JackRiddler]

46. Wow, lightning bolts!

What a great ally!

[calimary]

55. Welcome to DU, mpcamb!

Good to have you with us! Now THERE is an idea worth pushing! Every time I see chickenhawk bill kristol and any of the other PNAC types sitting there in their comfy chairs enjoying some nice face time on camera and getting more famous and basking in the nice air conditioning with assistants powdering their noses and foreheads to keep the shine off, and bringing them more coffee or fresh water if they can't leave their seats the set because the segment is too long and the commercial break is too short - I find myself shouting at my TV - "OKAY, THEN. YOU FIRST, ASSHOLE!!!"

[reformist2]

19. Sorry, but Ron Paul's foreign policy is way more lucid and honest than Obama's.

[another_liberal]

22. It is kind of frightening to me . . .

But I do agree with most of what he says in this interview.

[reformist2]

91. Ron Paul may be "wrong" on a lot of other issues, but he's a good man.

When they said politics makes strange bedfellows, this is what they were talking about. And when we find agreement
with someone like Ron Paul, we should make temporary alliances, not spit in his face (like many dems here want to do.)

[geek tragedy]

65. Putin cultists certainly think so, after all Paul is a rightwinger just like

Putin and his supporters

[Cha]

87. NO it isn't.. ron paul is a dishonest asshole.

[arely staircase]

90. Ron Paul is a racist piece of shit and he doesn't have a "foreign policy" nt

[Joshua57]

23. Tell me the date when Ron Paul became relevant again?

Was it when his totally ignorant son won a seat in the Senate from a rather stupid state ?

And America bothers to listen to Ron Paul for what reason?

[OilemFirchen]

26. Not a date. A slice of time.

Nothing new from RT.com, so the OP is forced to turn elsewhere for nattering. Ron Paul is a guest host.

[calimary]

56. Welcome to DU, Joshua57!

Great to have you join us! No reason that I can see. He was never relevant to anyone but a sliver of ideologues so detached from reality that their heads damn near float off their necks and up into the smog. To be blissfully reunited with all the smog still filling the space within their skulls where the human brain can ordinarily be located.

[jakeXT]

25. Is it so difficult the accept the reality of NGO's ?

[Catherina]

27. +1. Kucinich can always be counted on to tell the truth

which is why the Rightist in the Dem party try to dismiss him as *loony fringe* even though he's proven their warmongering lust wrong every single time.

[gussmith]

28. So it's "War"

Let's redefine how we respond to 'war' rather than with the bodies and minds of our young people.

[ladjf]

29. I consider the remarks made by Rand Paul to be seditious. nt

[jwirr]

31. Okay ron are you and your family enlisting or are you planning to send our sons and daughters again?

[kurosagi]

33. I believe you have

...misinterpreted his message. Ron is pretty far in anti-war territory and as for the enlisting thing, he IS a veteran.

[jwirr]

34. Maybe.

[jamzrockz]

40. You know who else is a veteran?

John "I have never seen a war I dont like" McCain. But either way, you either support his neocon son or the anti war dad. So for me there is nothing good bring up their positions on the issue.

Just call it a wash and move on.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

48. Nothing about this post makes sense.

Nothing.

[calimary]

58. Welcome to DU, kurosagi!

Happy to have you among us! Granted, he is and has been anti-war. But that does not offset all the idiot ideas he has about how baaaaaaad the federal government somehow is. And the fact that he is a veteran is a mark in his favor, because I'd rather listen to someone who's actually walked the walk about war than someone who got five deferments or had his daddy pull some strings for him or some other piss-ant excuse. It still doesn't excuse or offset the rest of his cockeyed and completely unrealistic world view. Anyone who thinks the free market should be the be-all and end-all of everything everywhere, or is some sort of magic pill that cures all ills, does NOT have his head screwed on straight, and does NOT have any grasp on reality.

[kurosagi]

99. Thank You, Calimary

I know I'm very late to respond, but I totally agree. I did however hope that his anti-war sentiments and veteran status would infect (or should I say disinfect?) the warmongering right. I don't understand why so many active military and veterans (including myself) are against this war machine, but the right seems to be gung ho about it, all the while saying that they listen to soldiers. Umm excuse me, you do what? Listening to soldiers would mean that they understand that we are pissing off the rest of the world. The soldiers totally know that.

I'm cutting myself off before I spend too much time ranting (at work), but once again, thanks for the werlcome.

[OKNancy]

32. Fuck Ron Paul

[mountain grammy]

36. I'll second that!

[SunSeeker]

41. +1

[TBF]

93. Just checking to make

sure someone made this comment or I was going to do it myself.

[Botany]

35. and some place a man is sitting on park bench

Who gives a crap about what that man says?

[on point]

38. Backwards. The act of war was illegal invasion of Crimea by russia

[SunSeeker]

42. Exactly. nt

[another_liberal]

74. In all fairness . . .

Russia did not "invade" Crimea. They have a treaty with Ukraine to base thousands of their soldiers in Crimea. That treaty remains in effect. They did reinforce those troops who were already in Crimea, but that is not at all the same as an invasion.

[cosmicone]

39. We can be such hypocrites

Ron Paul = Good -- when he is against the Iraq involvement

Ron Paul = Bad -- when he is against the Ukraine involvement

[Gore1FL]

44. I think Paul is bad for calling non acts of war, acts of war.

Mostly he's just an over-simplified idiot on all subjects irrespective of whether he and I reach the same conclusions or not.

[geek tragedy]

78. No, Ron Paul always bad, even when he's right.

He was right when he was against invading Iraq.

He's wrong to be licking Vladimir Putin's jackboots.

But, a few people here would love the chance to lick Vladdy's boots (in a totally heterosexual way, so as to not violate Russian law or offend the Tsar).

[lostincalifornia]

43. very consistent. He was against the North being against slavery and the civil war, and if he was

president would not have fought the nazis

This guy, and his son, are everything they seem to be

[savannah43]

59. An act of war against the US? Ron--Ron?

Everything is so simple for bullies, isn't it?

[another_liberal]

67. I think he meant our sanctions were an act of war against Russia.

He does also believe that those without health insurance should be left in the streets to die. I, of course, don't agree with him on either of those points, far from it.

[truthisfreedom]

60. Why does Ron Paul hate America?

[wisteria]

61. Paul needs to go live in Russia, and he take his son too.

[PaulKersey]

62. Paul is right

Maybe its time to stop playing world police.

[geek tragedy]

63. Fuck Ron Paul, and those who think like him

His lunacy was never better displayed than his opinion on this topic.

He's almost as bad as the fuckwits who get their news from rt.com

[ForgoTheConsequence]

69. Fuck John McCain and those who think like him.

......

[geek tragedy]

76. I do not think like John McCain. There are those who are expressing their agreement with

Ron Paul and solidarity with Vladimir Putin, and against President Obama and virtually every other democratic nation on the planet.

It is unfortunate that criticism of Ron Paul and his ilk bothers some people who like to hang around at progressive websites.

But, I'm sure you can read something at rt.com to make yourself feel better.

[ForgoTheConsequence]

81. You agree with John McCain on this issue, your thinking is aligned with him.

And I see you using neo-con phrases like "anti-Americanism" regularly.


You can call yourself "progressive" if you want, but I'm not buying it.


As for Ron Paul, of course he's a nutcase, but a nutcase can be right every so often. Just because you agree with someone on one thing doesn't mean you support that individual. After all, you agree with Ted Cruz on this issue, but I doubt you agree with Ted Cruz on others........at least I hope.........but who knows?

[Cha]

88. Of course not.. Who the fuck would be so stupid to "bomb bomb bomb Iran".

And, who would be so stupid to think anyone on this board thinks like that idiot.

[joshcryer]

64. Ron Paul doesn't believe in voluntary market transactions?

What is this? You must do business regardless? This is really strange.

[chrisa]

71. Oh, pound sand. Heaven forbid his hero gets shunned by other nations for being a bully.

It's like somebody's forcing him to take his pin-up of an oily, shirtless Putin off the wall of his bedroom.

[another_liberal]

72. Whose hero?

Are you suggesting President Putin is Ron Paul's hero? Really?

[geek tragedy]

77. One rightwing bigot loving another rightwing bigot. Fuck them both.

And fuck their fans.

[Dem4ever27]

79. What?

In what alternate universe do Putin and Paul have the same politics?

[geek tragedy]

80. does Mr, Putin strike you as a man of the left? nt

[ForgoTheConsequence]

82. He strikes me as an egotistical oligarch.

Who transcends the (non existent) linear left/right paradigm. He's an asshole at best, but given that he has done anything to maintain power from being a member of the totalitarian left to embracing crony capitalism to this sort of neo-fascist nationalist things he's doing now, I don't think you could put him anywhere in the western political sphere.

[Tarheel_Dem]

84. WTF???

[DonCoquixote]

85. when treason doth prosper

none dare call it treason.

[MFrohike]

86. He's so useless

He's Charles Lindbergh without the sex appeal.

[yankee dandee]

89. Paul

This guy Paul is a typical Southerner....racist to the core and strong believer in conformity.

Conformity meaning that ALL Americans must conform to his way of thinking. Like Alaskan quitter and ex-bathing suit broad, the brilliant erudite Silly Shallow Sarah Palin, Queen of moose-shooters, he is a strong Christianist.

A Christianist is equivalent to an Islamist. Christianists are pseudo-religious groups like the "tea party" whose goal is to establish Christianity as a political power controlling all of America. They are white, mostly Southern or Southern-leaning, with ideals identical with fascism.

Paul would nuke Russia in heart beat...Just like sociopathic Palin would do.

The tattooed meth-heads throughout the country look upon those two and their ilk as "moral leaders".

German history, any one?

[Orsino]

98. Sanctions an act of war? Paul's a dumbass.

Sanctions are what you do instead of war. Sanctions are acts of diplomacy.

No guarantee that war won't result, but Paul is an airhead if he actually believes what he says.