Obama refuses to barter for Edward Snowden

[temmer]

Source: BBC


President Barack Obama has said there will be no "wheeling and dealing" as part of extradition efforts against US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden.

Speaking on a visit to the West African nation of Senegal, Mr Obama also said the case would be dealt with through routine legal channels.

"I am not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker," he added.

Mr Snowden, who faces espionage charges, flew to Moscow last weekend and requested asylum in Ecuador.

Mr Obama said on Thursday that he had not called China and Russia's presidents about the case, adding: "I shouldn't have to."

Read more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23084166

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"hacker" - Obama managed to find an interesting compromise between traitor and whistleblower...maybe on DU we can agree on this term...

[Skittles]

1. I've said from the start Snowden is neither hero nor villian

he is somewhere in-between

[temmer]

3. Snowden refused to call himself a hero

he said he is an American. Clear-cut.

[MynameisBlarney]

4. That's pretty much

my take on it.
Any hero status he might have earned was ruined by him going to Russia.

[cstanleytech]

16. No, going to Russia or even Hong Kong isnt what ruined any claim of him being a hero its that

he went beyond blowing a whistle over the PRISM program (which anyone with half a brain and who hasnt had their head shoved up their own butts should have been aware of for awhile if they had been paying attention for the last 15 or so years) and also revealed classified information over the governments intelligence efforts in other countries thus being a hero doesnt apply.
If it did then anyone who revealed any classified information would be considered a hero like Scooter Libby who is as far from being a hero as Snowden is imo.

[MynameisBlarney]

17. hmmm...

good points actually.

[question everything]

29. Agree. And as Secretary Kerry pointed out

it is not as if China and Russia are bastion of democracy.

Had he revealed their secrets, he would be facing firing squads by now.

[Andy823]

5. I agree with you

I think that when all the facts come out we will find he was encouraged to do this, whether for political reasons, or some other reason, I really don't think he was acting alone.

[creon]

33. agree

I think that Snowden is a naive and foolish young man.
He faces an uncertain future under the best of circumstances.

[Autumn]

2. He seems to be taking a reasonable approach.

Now if we can get these puke and blue dogs to shut up and let the President handle it that might just be a good thing.

[Jessy169]

6. I second that motion

Lurking at DU daily, frequently, reading constantly, but rarely commenting. I have found many of the sentiments expressed on DU about Obama to be quite repulsive and reactionary in regards to the Snowden "case". How many DU'ers have blasted Obama and Holder for their aggressive enforcement of marijuana laws -- but look at the reality, pot is on a clear path toward finally being legalized. Hmm, maybe behind the scenes Obama is orchestrating things to benefit America, after all. Same thing with Snowden -- everybody is sniping at Obama as if he is personally spying on us and listening in on our phone calls -- but the reality is much different, no doubt, and still unfolding. I wish all the snipers and gripers would STFU for a while and let's see where this goes.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. ^^THIS^^

For example - look how much stuff has already been declassified now, essentially rendering those programs dead? Folks have suspected much of it but for sure Darth wasn't about to declassify any of it, even if someone like Snowden had been around back then.

[bitchkitty]

32. Behind the scenes?

That's an interesting stretch. I don't think Obama is secretly advancing the cause of medical marijuana or marijuana legalization - the activists on the ground are who advance the cause.

And the chess theory gets so old...

[Plucketeer]

7. Stealth drones

These may well be Snowden's fate.

[MH1]

28. Not while he's hiding in a Moscow airport.

[Plucketeer]

35. I started to agree with you -

- my comment intimating that he might be targeted whenever he got to Ecuador or wherever. But with the drone technology that DARPA has developed - drones of small insect (or likely even smaller) size could deploy a poison dart or some such thing. EVEN in a confined area.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

36. why the need for something so high tech?

would be a lot less suspicious if he died in a simple hit'n'run or accidentally turned the wrong corner and encountered a gang doing some sort of deal thus is shot et al.

and if one of the two happens I'm not saying it was done by the us gov, they can happen just as easily by random quirk of fate.(personally i find the idea some people on DU talk of about regarding the us gov sending somebody to kill Snowden to be quite unrealistic)

[Plucketeer]

37. Whatever

My "high tech" scenario was simply a reply to the contention that Snowden was immune to harm while IN a Moscow airport terminal. Heck, Snowden could literally die of honest natural causes. Of course, the conspiracy theorists would NEVER swallow that!

[Bodhi BloodWave]

39. aaah, i would have to agree with your "high tech" route if the locale was still within the airport

after all, its quite hard to have a gang deal or car accident there*nods sagely* And you are quite correct, if Snowden were to have an accident or die of natural causes in the near future it will by a certain section of the populace automatically be credited to the US gov.

*bows* mea culpa

[treestar]

46. Yeah or just use the high tech they used on Michael Hastings

You know where they can hack a car? LOL, these people are getting silly.

[Ash_F]

8. Did he really hack anything?

I think whistleblower is accurate.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. He apparently got into the British systems.

And technically "hacker" is not what techs call black hats who "crack" into systems, so the term doesn't necessarily mean what you think.

[Ash_F]

13. OK but did he actually circumvent any security measures?

I would be interested in reading more about that.

[Maximumnegro]

14. If Obama says hacker, then he was a hacker

Obama could have used any number of descriptions - the man is a constitutional lawyer - so if he says 'hacker' then that means Snowden is exactly that.

[Ash_F]

18. That is a really curious choice for a user name. /nt

[BumRushDaShow]

30. Most IT coders are "hackers"

because in the coding world, the term "hacker" is not a perjorative and is commonly (and wrongly) used by teevee and Hollywood types to represent something nefarious. "Constitutional lawyer" makes no difference other than as a lawyer, he might know that the term has differernt meanings to different communities, so a win-win.

[okaawhatever]

44. He didn't have access to the files he stole, so in the generic sense hacker is accurate. He was a

systems administrator so he had access to the computers but not the files inside.
I would liken it to a security guard who legally has access to a building and it's offices, but not the files inside the file cabinets.

He's not a whistle blower per the legal definition.

[Ash_F]

45. He didn't have access? Or did he have access but not the authority to copy/transfer?

When it comes to laws regarding computer hacking, there is an important distinction. If he truly did not have access, how did he circumvent security measures?

[DCBob]

47. I suspect he did..

He probably had partial access then hacked his way into the good stuff.

[Nanjing to Seoul]

10. Finally, a voice of reason in this bullshit. Obama puts it in perspective. I have to hand it to

the man. He is a very good politician. He is out Clinton-ing Clinton with his rhetoric and oratory.

"I am not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker," he added.

Perfect response for people who want Snowden's head on a pole or us to invade another country to get him.

[Maximumnegro]

20. No, it's the opposite. It's because he is NOT a Clinton BS artist

Obama shoots straight. He says what he means. He's just extraordinarily good at speaking to us like we're not stupid. But so many of us are so caught up in our projections that we keep trying to reinterpret the man. Clinton is an a-hole who will say whatever will appeal best to whomever he is talking to at the time. He can't help it. It's pathological, as we all know by now. He wants everyone to like him all the time. Obama is the polar opposite. Obama will say the same thing to a janitor that he will say to a senator.

Unfortunately this seems mystify a lot of people.

[Whisp]

23. +++ I look forward to more of your posts. n/t

[woo me with science]

27. "Shoots straight"? Hmm.

[eissa]

12. I love how he downplays it all

Perfect response to two self-important narcissists. And yeah, hacker is more accurate than traitor, which has no legal base, or whistleblower, since he didn't reveal anything illegal.

[Maximumnegro]

21. No Drama Obama. His response alone makes me feel

better about the whole thing. He is not the least bit worried. You can tell when there's a problem because 1) he usually says there's a problem 2) he parses his words even more carefully.

As usual, we are the ones who are trippin' and freaking out and will end up with egg on our face later.

But there are many Dems who are so invested in hating him at this point that it doesn't matter.

[raindaddy]

15. Good Mr. President!

Now on to the debate about the government hiring corporations to gather information on innocent Americans you promised.

[BeyondGeography]

19. Snowden turned 30 last week

But 29 sounds so much better when you're downsizing him (whether it was intentional or not).

[msanthrope]

43. What....was the President supposed to bake a cake for Eddie? nt

[Demeter]

22. Snowden is a Folk Hero

Folk heroes arise when there is great corruption and oppression of the People by their government, elected or not.

A few samples of folk heroes, legendary or historical:

Robin Hood
Martin Luther
Martin Luther King

You can add to the list.

[Whisp]

24. gag. n/t

[treestar]

48. gag #2

[Jesus Malverde]

25. Scrambling Jets

I take that to mean they would "scramble jets" to intercept a commercial airliner and force it to land at a more US friendly locale. Like the Iranians did with Abdolmalek Rigi.

According to Iranian sources, on 23 February 2010, “Rigi was arrested in Persian Gulf waters while he was traveling on a plane via Dubai to Kyrgyzstan.” According to one Iranian official, “His plane was ordered to land, and then he was arrested after the plane was searched.” [18] The New York Times later reported that the flight was from Dubai to Kyrgyzstan. At a later time, Bishkek airport confirmed that Kyrgyzstan Airways flight QH454 from Dubai had arrived several hours late after being intercepted by Iranian fighter jets over the Persian Gulf and told to land in Iranian territory, adding that “a number of foreign passengers were forcibly removed”.[19]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdolmalek_Rigi

Imagine your manhunt being topic #1 for the national security establishment, I don't envy Mr. Snowden.

[BenzoDia]

26. To the dismay of all the over active, spy movie watchers that desperately want this to be a big deal

[warrprayer]

40. it is beeg deel!!!

NPR has nothing on these guys

[Major Hogwash]

31. Referring to President Obama as "Mr Obama" was lame.

They should shoot the reporter who wrote this garbage in the ballz!

[temmer]

42. MOST intelligent post I ever read on DU! Thank you!

[DCBob]

50. RW journalists love to do that.

I guess its a way to get in an insult without it being blatantly obvious.

[99th_Monkey]

34. I'm relieved Obama is not overtly wheeling & dealing to "get Snowden"

But I suspect that behind the scenes, there may be a bit of covert activity going on never-the-less, to
get Snowden.

Frankly I wish Obama would get 100% focused on creating jobs, preserving Social Security/Medicare,
fighting to keep homeowners from loosing homes, and supporting legalization of hemp & marijuana to
boost our economy, and generally running the US Gov't..

[warrprayer]

38. Reagan did

We shall see.

"On the orders of Ronald Reagan, the plane carrying the hijackers was intercepted by F-14 Tomcats from the VF-74 "BeDevilers" and the VF-103 "Sluggers" of Carrier Air Wing 17, based on the aircraft carrier USS Saratoga,[7] and directed to land at Naval Air Station Sigonella, a NATO base in Sicily, where the hijackers were arrested by the Italians[8] after a disagreement between American and Italian authorities.[Note 1] The other passengers on the plane (including the hijackers' leader, Muhammad Zaidan) were allowed to continue on to their destination,[10] despite protests by the United States. Egypt demanded an apology from the U.S. for forcing the airplane off course."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achille_Lauro_hijacking

[JDPriestly]

41. What is to be gained by apprehending him other than just challenging

the next leaker to come forward.

Snowden has already given all the information he has to someone, maybe more than one person (at least that is what we are told).

Snowden won't have the opportunity to work in the kind of job he had at Booze Allen anywhere else in the world because no one would want to trust him or to incur the wrath of the US authorities.

Snowden will never be able to relax and enjoy a soda at the beach because he will always be looking over his shoulder.

No matter where he goes or what he does, Snowden will be unable to trust much of anyone or do much of any of the things he loves.

Maybe 30 years from now, the world will have forgotten or forgiven him, but even that outcome is a question of the odds.

I can see why the US would want to make a lot of noise and point a lot of guns in Snowden's direction. But I can't see why they would actually offend any foreign nations to reach him.

Snowden is in a defensive position. He has said what he has to say. Others have whatever information he had. Sooner or later Snowden will either be apprehended, killed, forgiven and be knighted or forgotten.

If the US can send a bounty hunter or the Seals after Snowden, the US will. But until that point, the US will just patiently wait. Snowden is smart enough to know that.

And so is Obama.

So don't hold your breath. Snowden could be in custody already or tomorrow or whenever. Doesn't matter. The news is out. And that cannot be undone regardless of what happens to Snowden now.

I suspect that Snowden knew very well that this is what would happen way back when he decided to go to Hong Kong and take documents with him.

It's just logical.

[DCBob]

49. I used the term "hacker" from the beginning... actually "2-bit hacker"

because I suspected that's how he got into the mother load of TS docs.

[Jenoch]

51. I think President Obama is not

telling his people to get Snowden back because he does not wish to deflect from his goals by having a public trial. It would be the focus of everyone and everything for many months. He doesn't want the destraction.