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Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:16 AM

Texan carves pentagram into son's back on "holy day" of 12-12-12-police

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Rhiannon12866 (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Reuters

(Reuters) - A Texas man told authorities he carved a pentagram into the back of his 6-year-old son "because it is a holy day" in reference to the numerical date of 12-12-12, police said.

Brent Troy Bartel, 39, of the Fort Worth suburb of Richland Hills, was in jail Wednesday on a $500,000 bond, charged with aggravated assault of a family member with a deadly weapon.

Police officers responded to an emergency dispatch call shortly after midnight from a man who said, "I shed some innocent blood," according to an audio recording of the emergency 911 call, released by police.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/13/us-usa-crime-texas-idUSBRE8BB1TM20121213



Holy fuck!

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Reply Texan carves pentagram into son's back on "holy day" of 12-12-12-police (Original post)
Xipe Totec Dec 2012 OP
LineReply !
Warren Religion Dec 2012 #1
allan01 Dec 2012 #2
happyslug Dec 2012 #4
snooper2 Dec 2012 #6
happyslug Dec 2012 #20
dmallind Dec 2012 #11
happyslug Dec 2012 #21
Mangoman Dec 2012 #18
marble falls Dec 2012 #3
happyslug Dec 2012 #5
heaven05 Dec 2012 #7
primavera Dec 2012 #8
Paladin Dec 2012 #9
primavera Dec 2012 #10
octothorpe Dec 2012 #24
primavera Dec 2012 #26
arely staircase Dec 2012 #27
Hugin Dec 2012 #13
Paladin Dec 2012 #14
Hugin Dec 2012 #15
woodsprite Dec 2012 #12
Mangoman Dec 2012 #16
lunatica Dec 2012 #17
Mangoman Dec 2012 #19
Xipe Totec Dec 2012 #23
octothorpe Dec 2012 #25
NaturalHigh Dec 2012 #22
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #28
Rhiannon12866 Dec 2012 #29

Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:27 AM

1. !

 

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:35 AM

2. re:Texan carves pentagram into son's back on "holy day" of 12-12-12-police

this one id love to see the book thrown and and may the punishment fit the crime . stupid jerk. and have compassion for the son. where was the mother in all this ?
i hope child protective service comes through on this one.jaumpin jehosaphat .

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Response to allan01 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:47 AM

4. Sorry, this man seems to suffer from severe mental illness

Harming children is NOT the doctrine of any modern Religion (Some ancient cults did do so, but most are more legendary then anything else, including Early Republican Rome and pre-Classical Greece). I mention Religion for such acts were allegedly common when it was a religious doctrine in a society, but it has NOT been a religious dogma in Western Society for at least 2500 years and this Texan is a product of "Western" Culture.

That leaves true mental illness as the reason for this act and such people should be treated (and watched) not punished. The reason is punishment will be ineffective, for this was NOT due to some hate of the child, but an internal desire (lack of a better word) that 12-12-12 be commemorated. Thus throwing him in jail will NOT lead to him NOT doing something like it is the future, will NOT be an example to others, who have a similar desire, NOT to do such an act, nor repair the damage done. Thus punishment is strictly for revenge and revenge is a bad reason to punish someone without some other reason to do the punishment.

This man needs serious mental health, but that is a State expense and Texas under funds everything (to keep taxes low). Thus this is more the product of low taxes then anything to do with law enforcement or criminal punishment.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:03 AM

6. Really, so a 58 year old man getting wed to a 14 year old girl isn't harming her?

Shit, I need to get my values lined up

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Response to snooper2 (Reply #6)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:05 PM

20. In what cultural setting are you talking about????

Mohammad was over 50 when he married his youngest wife, who was six. It is reported they had sex when she was 10 and was tried for adultery at 14. In Arab society of that time period that was NOT unusual and no one, including Alisha herself, considered herself abused (She NEVER had any children, but she did lead a revolt against Ali long after the death of her husband Mohammad).

I bring this up for the CULTURAL BACKGROUND often determines if something is harmful or not. In Afghanistan today, boys 10-14 tend to be sexually objects to older males, but it has been the norm in Afghanistan for thousands of years and viewed by all participates as NOT causing harm. We in the West views such action as severe harm to the 10-14 year old.

In the South Pacific, we are told, the natives sometimes sacrificed young girls to the volcano gods to appease them. In such Cultures, no one, including the victim, considered themselves abused for it is part of their Culture.

Cultural differences do lead to conflicts and often addressed by putting people in situations that are comic given the conflicts in cultures (The legendary "North American Tango" Americans like three feet between themselves and who we are talking to, many Latin Americans prefer to be closer, about 18 inches. In parties where people of the two culture mix, this result in the "North America Tango", the North American puts himself at three feet from the Latin he is talking to, the latin then closes in to the 18 inches he is more comfortable with. This is followed by the North American Stepping backward to give himself the three feet he wants, followed again by the Latin moving forward to be within 18 inches. Thus the two, often engaged in an otherwise friendly conversation, "Dance" around the room.

The only reason I mentioned Religion is this situation is such actions are NOT within the Cultural norms of North America (it is not within the norms of the vast majority of cultures, but since I do NOT know ALL of them, I have to be conservative and say most instead of all). This is reflected in the main religions of North America, Europe and the Mid East (Even the Communists and followers of Ayn Rand, both of who have view on how the world should be and thus meets the definition of religion as a way the world should be, do NOT vary on this regard, and both advocate atheism as the state religion).

I bring up religion only to show, this act is an act of someone OUTSIDE the norms of Society, which means someone with a mental problem. Marriage between a 58 year old and a 14 year old, while not normal, is still within the norm of out society if both want to enter into a marriage (and that is the law in MOST states, the 14 year old would need her parent's permission EXCEPT in those states that still retain Common Law Marriages, in the late 1990s Pennsylvania, which has since ended Common LAw Marriages, Ruled that in a Common Law Marriage, a woman as young as 12 did NOT need her parent's permission to wed for that was the law under the Common Law of England and no one had ever changed it).

One Legal Scholar in Colorado, states that given that Colorado law on Common Law Marriages is similar to the Old Pennsylvania law, 12 year olds can enter such a marriage without the Child's parent's permission and that is the law to this day AND sex within a Marriage, no matter the difference in ages, is not only legal but considered non abuse (With the sole exception if one of the sexual partners call it abuse but that is another story).

Sorry Cultural background has to be considered and while the law is one way to show the cultural background, religion is another.

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Response to happyslug (Reply #4)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:05 AM

11. Funny how nonbody ever does psycho shit because the absence of gods told them to though eh?

Whether religion is causal, confounded or simply a notion around which the nuttery coalesced here, it is certainly not irrelevant. Outside jokes, the number of mentally ill people who receive instructions from little green men is far lower than those who receive and act upon religious instructions. Wouldn't reducing the societal acceptability and prevalence of these fake "messages" in early childhood indoctrination at least reduce the likelihood that mentally ill people might latch onto the idea that they really CAN hear them?

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Response to dmallind (Reply #11)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 02:08 PM

21. You have not dealt with the mentally ill I see

Many Mentally ill People hear voices all the time, sometimes it is from God or gods, but most often just voices that tell them to do harmful things to themselves or others. I deal with these people all the time and while some of them rely on cultural norms when it comes to the sources of those voices, most just report the voices and do NOT provide a source for the voices.

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Response to allan01 (Reply #2)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:30 PM

18. What if the article read...

 

"Man has part of the sons penis chopped off in the name of religion"

Would he still have a mental illness ? Would people still be reporting on him ?

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:38 AM

3. Kid shudda cowboyed up.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:07 AM

7. some

people just don't need kids. for the 6 year old. I know the literal pain and how long it lasts.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:20 AM

8. Would these idiots please secede already?

I'm really beginning to wish that they would. Then they could form their own god, mom, apple pie, and kill people banana republic to which all of our other crazies could emigrate and the rest of us could join the 21st century.

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Response to primavera (Reply #8)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:31 AM

9. I'm A Fifth-Generation Texan, A Life-Long Liberal,.....

Last edited Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:55 AM - Edit history (1)

....I've been active on DU for many years, and I'm one of more than 3.2 million Texans who voted for Obama recently. Since you want the entire state of Texas to secede, would you mind quantifying my portion of the blame for this deranged man's actions? Tell me why my U.S. citizenship must be forfeited, why don't you? Will be eagerly awaiting your response.....

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Response to Paladin (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:55 AM

10. a.) I was mostly joking

b.) Sane people like yourself appear to be a minority in your state.

b.) 1.) If that's a false impression (as it certainly could be - wackos make more noise than sane people do), the silent majority of sane Texans need to be more outspoken in ostracizing the crazies in their state if they do not wish to be judged by the actions of their neighbors.

b.) 2.) If that's a correct impression and the majority of Texans are indeed as crazy as their vocal wackos suggest them to be, the innocent minority can be sympathized with and supported, but it doesn't change the propriety of judging the collective as a whole based upon the actions the crazy majority induces the collective to do. As we all know only too well, there are countless millions of critics in the US of its nightmarish policies whose voices have tragically been ignored, but the rest of the world is nevertheless within their rights to judge the US as a whole for the harms that its psychotic policies have caused.

On edit:

Btw, I empathize with your pain. I live in New Orleans, which is a predominantly liberal city. But New Orleans is an oasis of sanity in the desert of inbred ignorance, prejudice, and bigotry that sadly is Louisiana. I can't speak for Texas, where the sane may indeed be the quiet majority, but I can assure you that you, and every other rational person, would be quite right to consider Louisiana overall to be a disgraceful blemish on the face of the country.

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Response to primavera (Reply #10)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:16 PM

24. Austin is pretty liberal.

Also, it's been my experience that most of the major cities tend to be about the same as any other city I've been to in the US.

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Response to octothorpe (Reply #24)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:21 PM

26. That's what I understand, too

I've never been there myself, but everyone tells me that Austin is Texas' oasis of sanity. My heart goes out to them - I know it's hard living as a sane minority in an insane state.

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Response to primavera (Reply #26)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:32 PM

27. obama carried all the big cities and their

Counties in Texas. Houston has a lesbian mayor so it is like Austin is the only liberal place in Texas. It is just more so. It is the rural Arras and small towns that keep Texas red. That and some suburbs but they are increasingly blue or at least purple.

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Response to Paladin (Reply #9)


Response to Hugin (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:56 AM

14. Good Catch. Thanks. (nt)

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Response to Paladin (Reply #14)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:58 AM

15. No problem.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 11:27 AM

12. Hmmm, wonder if they got the idea from the TV last night.

I was flipping and one of the Law series (Law and Order?) had someone who had a pentagram carved into them. Don't know if it was a repeat or not since I don't usually watch those shows. Coincidence? Maybe not.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:19 PM

16. Well in fairness to the father

 

The father has the authority to have part of his son's penis chopped off in the name of religion

Where's the outrage ?

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:30 PM

17. You're sick

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Response to lunatica (Reply #17)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 12:31 PM

19. Thank you

 

That means a lot coming from you.

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #19)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 09:17 PM

23. To be fair, even I winced. nt

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Response to Mangoman (Reply #16)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 10:17 PM

25. hah!

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Thu Dec 13, 2012, 08:39 PM

22. It's spelled N-U-T-J-O-B.

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 12:23 AM

28. Texas boy with pentagram carved back discharged

8:26PM EST December 13. 2012 - RICHLAND HILLS, Texas (AP) A 6-year-old Texas boy whose father allegedly carved a pentagram on the child's back is out of the hospital and doing well given the circumstances, police said Thursday.

The boy seems to be doing OK, while his mother is in "a very emotional state" and has asked for privacy for their family, Richland Hills police detective Tye Bell said. The child's wounds didn't require stitches and he was released from a Fort Worth hospital Wednesday night, police said ...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2012/12/13/pentagram-carved-on-boy/1768511/

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Response to Xipe Totec (Original post)

Fri Dec 14, 2012, 04:17 AM

29. Locking, sorry, this isn't breaking news of national importance.

Thanks for your understanding.

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