Scandal in Ireland as woman dies in Galway 'after being denied abortion'

[alp227]

Source: guardian

Health authorities in Ireland are investigating the death of a pregnant woman whose husband says she was denied an abortion following severe complications.

Savita Halappanavar, who was 17 weeks pregnant, died of septicaemia a week after presenting with back pain on 21 October at University hospital in Galway, where she was found to be miscarrying.

After the 31-year-old dentist was told that she was miscarrying, her husband reportedly said that she had asked for a medical termination a number of times over a three day period, during which she was in severe pain.

But he said these requests were denied because a foetal heartbeat was still present and they were told at one point: "This is a Catholic country."

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/nov/14/ireland-woman-dies-after-abortion-refusal

---

How "pro life" is THAT??

[Paulie]

1. F'd up!

We shall not let that happen!!!

[Politicub]

2. Horrible, needless death

Catholic country indeed.

[femrap]

3. F*cking

organized religions. So very sad. She was treated worse than a broodmare.

[morningglory]

4. No mother. No baby. Bereaved father. Three days of agony. Good job. nt

[sheshe2]

5. That poor woman!

Don't even get me started!
Pro life my ass.
Heartbreaking.

[Baitball Blogger]

6. history repeating itself.

[Blasphemer]

7. Racism and religious bigotry played a part along with institutionalized sexism

The Irish Times story linked from The Guardian mentions that Ms. Halappanavar's is Hindu. That "This is a catholic country" statement is especially disturbing in this context. She was found to be miscarrying on the 21st. The pregnancy was over. Having a dying fetus inside her body put her life at risk. The presence of a foetal heartbeat was irrelevant. They broke Ireland's already antiquated law and killed this woman.

[appal_jack]

10. Time for Ireland to evolve away from this theocratic bullshit.

Maybe it's not my place to tell the Irish what to do.

But as someone who was raised in a half-Irish-American, way-too-Catholic family, I do feel confident to tell the Catholic Church that it needs to back the fuck away from the personal lives and decisions of women, and everyone else for that matter.

-app

[Patiod]

19. I thought the pedophilia scandals had changed things

Still more to do, though

[crunch60]

22. The hospital, the Dr,/assistants whomever refused to treat her properly, should be charged with

Ms. Halappanavar's MURDER!

[Tsiyu]

43. Precisely

There is no physician with even a twinge of ethics who would stand by and let a woman suffer and die so needlessly, so cruelly.

Any physician who denied her life-saving treatment is guilty of not only abandoning his or her medical training and oath, but they are liable for her death.

Sickening, disgusting, tragic, CRIMINAL.

Ireland should join the year 2012.

[oldbanjo]

62. If Romney had of won we would be joining Ireland.

[colorado_ufo]

63. Actually, they could be charged with murdering the fetus.

Since they would not save the mother, they effectively killed the fetus after all.

They could have delivered the fetus and then let God decide if the fetus lived or died. What they did was commit a double murder by failing to render aid when it was possible and available, violating all standards and ethics of their profession.

[PatrynXX]

8. after having yet another tit for tat

with a former pastor over how far right he is on this issue. ie in cases like this. I'm not pro abortion. Not entirely pro choice but so called Pro Life is a bullshit term. Even George Carlin knew this. The primary argument from the anti abortion is that of the two sides. Republicans kill far less people than Dems kill babies. As I don't have the stats. I'd need someone else to null this argument (PM'd. as I don't often follow up what I write (ADD) no I don't have ADHD

[CitizenPatriot]

24. By the way, no one is "pro abortion"

they are pro freedom for women.

Abortions aren't fun; they are a medical procedure.

[Arkana]

64. You mean you're not pro-abortion?!

Well I never!

I just remembered to put that on my shopping list the other day--milk, eggs, abortion...


(do I really need the sarcasm tag?)

[AAO]

35. A fetus is not a baby

I know because I've seen pictures of fetuses, and have seen and even held babies. They are not the same.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

9. Ireland really has to move out of the 1500s.

So "Catholic country" means what? Ham handed ignorance? Superstition at the expense of the individual?

Sometimes the indolence that Ireland expresses towards women makes me not want to be a citizen of it.

[sheshe2]

17. Not just Ireland moving out of the 1500s

How about the GOP of the US of A!
Look at the war on women that is being waged here! The platform they ran on.
Legitimate rape, forcible rape, children born of rape...an act of God!
Paul Ryan and Mitt both stated (though the Mittster flopped many times) that abortion under any circumstance would not be permissible.

We too have to get out of the 1500s mentality!

[diane in sf]

11. Murder by patriarchy

[truebluegreen]

49. That's it EXACTLY!

[Stargazer09]

12. God damn those stupid, women-hating men

The horrible men who think God wants women to suffer and die during pregnancy. Yes, that includes the Pope and every other person who thinks a fetus is more important than a living, breathing woman.

Damn them all to hell!

[MADem]

13. Catholic country, my ass. They sell condoms and allow divorce.

They need to fix this mess, too. Maybe the needless death of this poor woman will be a catalyst.

[alittlelark]

18. +1000

[sheshe2]

21. To my Dismay, I do not believe it will be a Catalyst....

The Catholic church has always wanted to control women! To my disgust so do those horrible, dirty old white men of the GOP! They make my skin crawl!

They have put through Congress an unprecedented number of laws banning Womens rights!

New Report on the Anti-Women Voting Record of the 112th Congress Identifies 55 Anti-Women Votes by House Republicans
http://democrats.energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?q=news%2Fnew-report-on-the-anti-women-voting-record-of-the-112th-congress-identifies-55-anti-women-votes#.UKMXS83hVQY.email

[MADem]

38. I'm hoping Ireland will rise up and get pissed off. It's past time.

This last election in USA was a referendum on those assholes in Congress. It's why McCaskill went back, why Duckworth won, etc.

[Megahurtz]

72. Those Scumbags!

[crim son]

15. I personally know several "pro-lifer" types

who would call this a case of God's will rather than a tragedy. Yeah, it's bullsh**.

[theHandpuppet]

60. All I can say to anyone spouting the "god's will" argument is....

Who the hell would even want to worship such a sadistic god?

[ljm2002]

74. Then those people should forego modern medical procedures...

...since obviously, to use modern medicine is to try and thwart God's will.

[mainer]

20. But... there's no such thing as abortion to save the life of the mother!

Or so the GOP says.

[KauaiK]

23. This is a CRIME!!!

This makes me so angry. Women in THIS country died before Roe v Wade. I know. I lived in that era when there were NO choices. This is what the Akins & Murdocks will do in the US if they and their ilk ever ever get into power.

[Le Taz Hot]

46. Correction,

there were no choices for poor women. Those with means could always find medically safe abortions. (I didn't mean that as snark, btw.)

[SunSeeker]

25. Those "doctors" should be put in jail for murder.

This just infuriates me. It is right out of the middle ages and a horrific crime.

[SoapBox]

26. The Holy and Pious...

make me sick.

[DakotaLady]

28. Soapbox ...

The holy and pious ... make me sick too.

Well stated in just those few words.

[Initech]

27. The Catholic church does not care about life.

[nolabear]

29. I just hate it when the incubator breaks.

In case tht's even needed. It's an incredible tragedy all the way around. But she didn't have to die.

[JEB]

30. Vatican death panel

has rivers of blood to dye the Bishop's robes red.

[azurnoir]

31. she was 17 weeks and miscarrying the fetus was not going to survive in any event

there was absolutely no reason not to terminate the pregnancy, so it seems the hospital decided that both would die, this is beyond mere negligence it is murder

[AAO]

32. Fuck right wing bastards!

[ck4829]

33. Good to know that they're protecting the sanctity of life, right?

[MotherPetrie]

34. Horrible tragedy. That poor woman.

[Zoeisright]

36. That's conservatives for ya.

Dead women and girls mean nothing to them.

[valerief]

37. I hate these crazies with their goddam zygote fetish. nt

[truthisfreedom]

39. Death panels.

Someone must be executed for this.

[Monk06]

40. The Catholic Church has to be kicked out of politics in Ireland and everywhere else in the world.

No abortion and the woman had septicaemia ??!! That is a death sentence for being a woman.

[kelliekat44]

41. This story needs wide-apread news coverage in the US and on cabal and national TV.

[DFW]

42. Whoever it was that made the decision not to save her life

They need to be indicted for murder, themselves.

[AngryOldDem]

44. The poor woman was probably dead no matter what.

They most likely wouldn't do a D&C either, until it was conclusively proven that the fetus was dead. By that time, the mother would have been dead as well.

At what point does simple common sense and medical knowledge trump dog(shit)ma?

And as for pro-life -- the fetus is all that matters. Do we need any more evidence?

[mainer]

56. Disagree. An abortion could have saved her life.

She was carrying a source of infection, which was the fetus as well as other products of conception. As long as that infectious package was inside her, antibiotics could not be effective. Immediate abortion was medically necessary.

I've repeatedly argued with anti-choice folks who insist there is never a medical necessity for abortion. I have a medical background and can point to a number of medical conditions, but they never believe me. Here is one concrete case to prove it.

[AngryOldDem]

81. My point...

If they knew the fetus was dead, they would have done a D&C to make sure all the tissue, etc., was removed. But even when it was obvious that she needed an abortion, they wouldn't do it. So even a D&C would have been too late for her, once they considered the fetus to be gone. So, the woman, in my eyes, was doomed no matter what.

My point is, they dick around until it is too late, even after it is obviously clear that the life of the mother is endangered. That is medically negligent, IMO, regardless of what any religion has to say about it.

I was very nearly in this woman's place several years ago, and I also had a good friend who quickly died from sepsis (so I know how fast it can happen) so I know of what I speak.

[sakabatou]

45. Pro-life only for the fetus. Otherwise, "you're fucked."

[Heywood J]

47. Where's that photo of Sinéad O'Connor tearing up the pope? (NT)

[Raster]

48. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing...and she WAS CORRECT!

No country has been the victim of catholic interference more than Ireland.

[rizlaplus]

50. Apparently there was a foetal heartbeat but Savita had a beating heart too

Disgusting. The Irish Prime Minister did promise the Roman Catholic lobby that he would never legislate for abortion nor for the X case.

The X case.

The X case involved a fourteen year old girl who had been raped by a neighbour and became pregnant. X told her mother of suicidal thoughts because of the unwanted pregnancy, and as abortion was illegal in Ireland, the family travelled to England for an abortion. Before the abortion was carried out, the family asked the Garda Síochána if DNA from the aborted foetus would be admissible as evidence in the courts, as the neighbour was denying responsibility. Hearing that X planned to have an abortion, the Irish Attorney General, sought an injunction under Article 40.3.3 of the Constitution of Ireland (which outlaws abortion) preventing her from having the procedure carried out. The injunction was granted by Mr Justice Declan Costello in the High Court.

The High Court injunction was appealed to the Supreme Court, which overturned it by a majority of four to one. The majority opinion held that a woman had a right to an abortion under Article 40.3.3 if there was "a real and substantial risk" to her life. This right did not exist if there was a risk to her health but not her life; however it did exist if the risk was the possibility of suicide. X had a miscarriage shortly after the judgement, before an abortion could be carried out.

The man who raped her and got her pregnant was sentenced to 14 years in prison. This was reduced on appeal to 4 years.

[rizlaplus]

83. In Ireland: Miscarrying women told to ‘read between lines’ and go to UK

That way the statistic that annually 4,000 Irish women have abortions doesn't show up in the official record!

Medical Council guidelines and all sides of the debate accept there is a clear argument to help miscarrying women pass the foetus if their health is at risk in the very early stages of pregnancy. However, the women claimed they were advised to "read between the lines" and travel to clinics in Britain. One woman, Jennifer, said that in 2003 when she was 16 weeks’ pregnant, she started bleeding and went to her local hospital.

"All the nurses inside [the unit] just started crying uncontrollably. They said there was no hope for the baby and they couldn’t understand I hadn’t miscarried. There was no ... fluid [around the foetus], he had one kidney, fluid on his brain. But there was a heartbeat. They kept listening."

Jennifer said GPs and four consultants met her separately after work in their own time for scans, only to tell her "you need to make a decision immediately" due to the impact on her health. She said one said to her mother: "I know what I would do if it was my daughter, you need to read between the lines. You need to do it urgently.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/archives/2012/1116/world/miscarrying-women-told-to-aposread-between-linesapos-and-go-to-uk-214156.html

[anti-poopyhead]

51. :(

Apparently not all english-speaking zealots moved to US yet.

[treestar]

52. Wish that article would bother to tell us what the law is there

It sounds like the doctors have problems, too, and could be arrested if they do the wrong thing.

[Blasphemer]

54. "Real and substantial risk" to the life of mother

This is the most helpful article I have found: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/22/world/europe/22iht-letter22.html?pagewanted=all

Twenty years ago this month, the Irish Supreme Court ruled that there was a constitutional right to an abortion where there was a “real and substantial risk” to the life of the mother (the girl involved was suicidal). Despite debate in the news media to mark the 20th anniversary, no legislation has been drawn up to outline when a woman is entitled to a legal abortion in Ireland, so the law remains unclear.

Since a woman has a constitutional right to an abortion if her life is at risk (including risk from suicide), then if doctors are fearful, they are either fearful of law enforcement officials who may interpret this "unclear" law differently or they are fearful of the power of the anti-choicers.

[RobinA]

59. Not So Simple

I know someone to whom this happened, but didn't not die.

Her water broke before the fetus was viable, but into "late term abortion" territory. The baby cannot survive this and infection is a pretty sure bet. But they would not induce labor/abort the fetus until she either got an infection and was therefore at risk, or the baby died. So she laid in the hospital for several days with her dying baby inside until it either died or she became septic. This was not a Catholic hospital, and it was in the US. Finally she got a fever and they immediately induced labor. She was able to be treated for the infection and lived to tell the story. I found this at the time and still find it beyond disgusting. It's the kind of thing that makes me understand the rage behind terrorism.

[Blasphemer]

61. Horrible story

I am glad your friend survived. It seems to me that risk of infection should have been enough for a "life at risk" determination (though common sense would say that a non-viable fetus make that whole argument moot anyway). Basically they are saying that the risk of death has to be "high enough" to warrant intervention. But the higher the risk, the more likely women will die even with intervention.

[treestar]

67. And these legalistic questions

Leave it too complicated and can lead to horrible situations like this. Which is why it should be entirely up to the woman.

Though even in the US, there are reasonable regulations allowed on the third trimester (Roe v. Wade) so things like this can still happen.

[hedgehog]

73. I am not an expert on this at all, so i could be way off base,

but I suspect that the thinking may be that in the case of a miscarriage, it is better to let events proceed naturally unless there is a a strong reason(such as a clear sign of infection) to speed things along. It may be a matter of standard medical practice and have nothing to do with the pro-life/pro choice arguments at all.

In fact, this may be what happened in the Irish case: http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1114/timeline-savita-halappanavars-death.html

If the time line is accurate, it would appear to me that she was miscarrying because of an infection and that the medical people should have realized this from the very beginning!

"Speaking to RTÉ's News at One, Praveen Halappanavar said his wife had gone to their GP and "everything was ok" three or four days before she presented at the hospital back pain.

Mr Halappanavar said the couple were told that their baby was "perfectly alright" and was due on 30 March."

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/1114/savita-halappanavar-university-hospital-galway.html


The other possibility is that if the water breaks but labor does not ensue, then it may be possible to delay delivery for a few days or a few weeks. That can make can make a huge difference in the survival of a pre-term infant. It all depends on the specifics of each case. It's situations like these that need to be addressed by doctors and women as they arise rather than being forced into a one size fits all piece of legislation.

[treestar]

66. Thank you for finding that

I had the impression they had gone to a modern law on abortion, but no. Must have been divorce I was thinking of, which they have been allowed only relatively recently there.

The real and substantial risk still puts the decision in other hands though - doctors? Very behind the times for 2012.

[AngryOldDem]

82. "The law remains unclear"

That says it all.

How about having the decision made by a professional (i.e., doctor) and the patient?

To me, it's Hippocratic Oath 101. You do what is in the best interest of the patient.

[workinclasszero]

53. This is what the teabag republicans want here

No exceptions for women, none. Not rape, incest or the life of the mother.

I hope all women democratic voters realize just how close we are in this country to these horrors.

[Tonkinlievet]

55. Organized religion is >>>

The scourge of humanity!!
Worship any deity that makes you comfortable, but don't try to force feed that shit sandwich to ME...or anybody else!!!

[Auntie Bush]

57. So now we have 2 deaths instead of one. When are these stupid people going to wake up? ?

Couldn't they see she was dying? Why does that fetus have more rights than the mother?

[idwiyo]

58. Fuck it, just fuck it.

[truebrit71]

65. People need to go to jail for this for a VERY long time...

...and it is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past time the Republic of Ireland cut the umbilical chord with the catholic church...unless they want MORE scrutiny for defending that cult of sadistic child-buggerers...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. Didn't some repugnant Republican say last month that No Mothers Die From Lack Of Abortions?

[SpartanDem]

69. I'm sure Paul Ryan, Todd Akin and Richard Morudock are celebrating

"God Will" this afternoon

[progressoid]

70. .

?ts=1352928694

[NuttyFluffers]

71. how many more must die to malevolent neglect to feel holier than thou?

the answer: as many as it takes until one stays forever in their power, unquestioning.

the powers that be, they hate you -- always have, always will.

(the unspoken secret is they also fear you organized...)

[ChoralScholar]

75. Because two deaths is somehow morally superior to abortion. EOM

[liberalmuse]

76. This is horrific.

And what our own GOP want for the women of America. I hope this wakes up the sleeping part of Ireland. Religion is worse than meth.

[LibGranny]

77. She was only 31 years old

and she was a dentist! Horrible, just horrible!

[myrna minx]

78. .

Outrageous!

[Sundome]

79. I'm glad this is getting so much attention. Poor woman.

hopefully that hospital can be charged with murder.

[Judi Lynn]

80. Guardian: I am ashamed that Ireland's medieval abortion law still stands

I am ashamed that Ireland's medieval abortion law still stands

Blame for denying Savita Halappanavar a termination lies with all of us who keep quiet about abortion rights

Emer O'Toole
The Guardian, Wednesday 14 November 2012

In beautiful Galway, my home town, Savita Halappanavar died in the hospital I was born in after being denied a potentially life-saving abortion. She presented with back pain, and was found to be miscarrying. A day of agony later, knowing her pregnancy couldn't survive, she asked for a termination, but was refused. "This is a Catholic country," she was allegedly told.

As long as the foetal heart kept beating doctors would not grant her wish. It beat for three days. Halappanavar vomited, shook and collapsed. On the third day the weak sound faded to nothing and doctors removed the dead foetus. That evening, Halappanavar died of septicaemia.

This is a Catholic country. If these were indeed the words used by the doctors, then the hospital did not feel the need to sugarcoat its rationale with references to Halappanavar's psychological health, or the wellbeing of her foetus. Its ideology was not veiled – as Youth Defence, Precious Life and Ireland's other powerful anti-abortion lobbyists have learned to do – in the language of care and concern for women. The rationale was not cloaked in academic arguments about the moment when human life begins.

Halappanavar objected that she was neither Irish nor a Catholic: a futile attempt to appeal for choice over what was happening to her body. As a medical professional, she most likely knew that her 17-week-old foetus would not be conscious of its existence ending. But her appeal to value her life over an insentient foetus's heartbeat was ignored. There is no abortion on the pope's own island and she had no time to get to England.

More:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/15/ireland-medieval-abortion-law-savita