US investigates Border Patrol's use-of-force policies amid claims of brutality

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Associated Press

US investigates Border Patrol's use-of-force policies amid claims of brutality
By Brian Skoloff, The Associated Press October 18, 2012

PHOENIX - Government investigators are reviewing U.S. Border Patrol policies on use of lethal force amid a series of deadly shootings along the border with Mexico in recent years, including the killing last week of a teenager who agents said was throwing rocks at them from across a fence.

Since 2010, at least 18 people have been killed by Border Patrol agents, eight in instances where federal authorities said they were being attacked by rock throwers, a common occurrence along the Mexican border, said Vicki Gaubeca, director of the ACLU's Regional Center for Border Rights.

The investigation by the Department of Homeland Security's Office of Inspector General involves a review of accusations of brutality and excessive force. The review was launched after 16 members of Congress expressed concern over the 2010 death of an unarmed Mexican migrant in San Diego.

Arlen Morales, a spokeswoman for the Inspector General's Office, declined to comment on details of the investigation but noted it could take up to a year to complete. U.S. Customs and Border Protection would not comment.


Read more: http://www.canada.com/news/Homeland+Security+probing+Border+Patrols+lethal+force+amid+claims/7412421/story.html

[azurnoir]

1. serious question does throwing a rock at someone warrant the use of deadly force?

now I realize these are law enforcement officers but is the standard so different? If someone or a few 'somones' throw rocks at you can you shoot them?

[alp227]

2. You never know if a rock thrown at you can cause concussion or permanent brain damage.

[azurnoir]

6. yes but does that entitle you to be able to kill that person? n/t

[alp227]

7. What other self defense is there? Running away?

[GliderGuider]

12. Just backing up out of rock-throwing range ought to do it.

Especially if there's a border fence between in between. There's no need in that situation to shoot foreign nationals in their own country.

[azurnoir]

15. well ya that could do it too

or ducking or getting behind something, and if your law enforcement tear gas works too

[Lasher]

3. Yes.

If one or more people throw rocks at me, I could legally defend myself by shooting them if I felt in peril. I am not a law enforcement officer.

[azurnoir]

5. so if the kid next door throws a rock at you you're entitled to kill him?

thanks had no idea

[Lasher]

8. That's the law

Castle Doctrine

West Virginia has a self-defense law based on the castle doctrine, and is a “stand your ground” state, meaning persons under attack do not have a duty to retreat before using physical or deadly force.

The state’s statute specifies that deadly force can be used within the home or in any place a person has a legal right to be. However, the force must be proportionate and there must be a belief that the attacker or intruder may kill or cause serious bodily harm to oneself or others. Within the home, physical or deadly force can also be used, proportionately, to prevent a felony from being committed.

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/guncontrol/a/West-Virginia-Gun-Laws.htm

[azurnoir]

14. ah stand your ground law I see, so you believe a gun is proportionate to a rock ?

okay .............

[Lasher]

19. You said you were asking a serious question.

I took you at your word but now you haul out this strawman because the facts do not support your narrative. I am disappointed.

[azurnoir]

20. No I broke it down for you as your link said proportionate threat or response, didn't you read it ?

so the logical question- is a rock proportionate to a gun?

going by the replies I'm getting it almost seems like George Zimmerman could have gotten off the hook by claiming Treyvon Martin threw a rock at him.

[Lasher]

21. What a silly argument.

This is a matter of law - specifically, but not limited to, the Castle Doctrine that I cited. A response is to be proportionate - not identical - to a perceived threat. If you attack me with a knife, I don't have to drop my gun and run around looking for a knife to defend myself with. This is consistent with simple logic and with prevailing legal interpretation. Here is one case as an example:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/01/new_years_eve_intruder_shot_an.html

Likewise, I don't have to round up my friends and a bag of rocks to defend myself against a group of people that attacks me with rocks.

[rollin74]

17. yes. the police shot a guy for throwing rocks at them a few blocks from my home

a couple of years ago. It is considered assault with a deadly weapon on a police officer.

throwing rocks at law enforcement is, at the very least, a very very bad idea and may cause you to get shot

[azurnoir]

18. and that makes it a-okay in your opinion? n/t

[Hulk]

4. Watch the movie...

The Three Burials of Malquedes Estradas, with Tommy Lee Jones...and you'll get a pretty good idea of just how out of control some of these bastards serving as Border Patrol can get.

I've crossed the border a dozen times in the last ten years, and I have run into the most ugly, insulting and power-soaked thugs with a uniform on that you can imagine. I'm not saying all....but I am saying a vast number of them; and NOT a small minority. Our US Border Patrol are, for the most part, thugs in uniforms. I'm a white male, age 65; but my wife is Mexican, and we've had to deal with some insulting, humiliating situations that would make you turn red with anger. It did me.

[Sierra89]

9. For a more detailed article on this incident

go to the website/front page of the Nogales International. The local newspaper had more to say;

[a la izquierda]

10. Thanks for posting, will come in handy in one of my classes.

Do wish I hadn't read the comments on here at 545am...

[midnight]

11. K&R

[Sunlei]

13. hundreds of abuses by the border patrol, read the linked article. I doubt the 'kids even threw rocks

The Border Patrol is the largest police force in the United States. But it lacks oversight, transparency and accountability.

"Hernandez had been beaten and shot with a stun gun while handcuffed and prone on the ground"

"..In his nine years working the border near Tucson, Ariz., and earning the rank of senior agent, Cruz says he frequently saw agents physically abusing detainees and denying food and water to those who were in obvious need. He also saw “individuals being crammed into cells twice beyond the posted capacity. Standing room only. I mean, you couldn’t even lie down on the floor.” This was done, he says, even when empty cells were available nearby..Cruz describes agents, at the direction of their commanding officers, forcing detainees to remain in half-squat or “stress positions” until they could no longer stand."

"In two days in Nogales, I heard firsthand accounts of young women being slapped on the rear as they were being searched. Other women said they were kicked and called whores or told they smelled worse than dogs. I listened to accounts of men being crammed into cells so overcrowded no one could sit or lie down. The only way to fit in the cell was to stand, shoulder to shoulder — for three days straight.""

In a single morning, in one town along the border, there seemed to be more instances of abuse than in an entire year of complaints compiled by Homeland Security.

Doctors of the World and the Red Cross each maintain facilities at strategic locations along the Mexican side of the border to provide medical assistance to migrants. Local staffers from both organizations confirm that migrants are routinely denied medical attention while in the custody of the Border Patrol


http://www.salon.com/2012/07/20/cruelty_on_the_border/

[ROBROX]

16. MEXICAN-AMERICAN

I say the use of deadly force should only be used if a person's life is threatened. Moving out of the range of a rock negates a big threat. Killing someone because you can not handle a threat is no excuse for killing.
I hope justice is served and the killer is sent to jail for life for a very bad crime.
I can see why the people were throwing rocks since the border patrol may not be seen as anything GOOD.
I am so glad my grandparents crossed the border without this type of trouble. One grandparent crossed into texas with $10,000 from his father, and my grandmother arrived in S.F. by ship with $10,000.
CHEER