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trailmonkee

(2,681 posts)
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:38 AM Sep 2012

Romney, Ryan Refuse To Identify Tax Loopholes They’d Close

Source: TPM

-snip-

On NBC’s “Meet The Press,” Romney dodged multiple questions about which deductions or credits he’d target, saying only that he’ll get rid of “some of the loopholes and deductions at the high end” while seeking to “lower the burden on middle income people.”

Pressed for one specific example, Romney replied, “Well, the specifics are these which is those principles I described are the heart of my policy.”

On ABC’s “This Week,” Ryan also fended off multiple questions about whether the Romney-Ryan tax plan should be taken seriously given its lack of details on which loopholes they would close.

“Mitt Romney and I, based on our experience, think the best way to do this is to show the framework, show the outlines of these plans, and then to work with Congress to do this. That’s how you get things done,” he said.

The Romney-Ryan plan would cut taxes beneath existing Bush-era levels, with benefits disproportionately for high earners, at a cost of roughly $5 trillion. They have vowed that the breaks would be revenue-neutral by way of closing tax credits and deductions but have persisted in their refusal to specify which ones, other than promising that the changes wouldn’t target middle class Americans.

Read more: http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/09/romney-ryan-tax-loopholes.php

34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Romney, Ryan Refuse To Identify Tax Loopholes They’d Close (Original Post) trailmonkee Sep 2012 OP
“Well, the specifics are these which is those principles I described are the heart of my policy.” arcane1 Sep 2012 #1
Word salad. I got nothing. n/t reflection Sep 2012 #6
sounds like sarah palin is writing his lines for him arely staircase Sep 2012 #10
OMG, he doesn't even know how to construct a sentence. valerief Sep 2012 #30
Can someone help me understand what he said? Wilms Sep 2012 #2
It's a waste of time to try to understand him. speedoo Sep 2012 #4
He said "I don't give a shit about closing any loopholes. I just want to keep cutting taxes." BlueStreak Sep 2012 #8
Deluded heaven05 Sep 2012 #3
They are such film flam men. "Trust Us" and our secret plan for prosperity (*our* prosperity). myrna minx Sep 2012 #5
They don't have any. They are not men of substance, just illusions, empty suits. See Krugman: Bernardo de La Paz Sep 2012 #7
The heart of Romneys policy? Andy823 Sep 2012 #9
Mainly,what I take from this is: Flashmann Sep 2012 #11
He is going to get so fucking roasted at the debates snooper2 Sep 2012 #12
Quit saying "loopholes" - they are DEDUCTIONS! banned from Kos Sep 2012 #13
If not targeting the middle class, why vote no on this? spedtr90 Sep 2012 #14
What I'm really trying to say is.... busterbrown Sep 2012 #15
If you stop to think about it DWinNJ Sep 2012 #16
Romney is not going to get rid of tax loopholes Mnpaul Sep 2012 #19
"Those Principles"? DallasNE Sep 2012 #17
Frank Luntz: Mitt, just insert the words "tax loopholes" here and there to make it seem like you aint_no_life_nowhere Sep 2012 #18
Pure gibberish Botany Sep 2012 #20
They're both experts at talking at length about nothing high density Sep 2012 #21
Don't Ask, don't Tell, the Republican Way oldsarge54 Sep 2012 #22
Like your "Standard Deduction" and Hubert Flottz Sep 2012 #23
and your "home mortgage interest deduction". Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #28
It's impossible to pay for Romney's tax cuts without eliminating middle class deductions muriel_volestrangler Sep 2012 #24
Like hell they'd close them. sakabatou Sep 2012 #25
Show your damn tax return you lying cheating rich shit. Warren Stupidity Sep 2012 #26
Well, if anyone knows "tax loopholes" it's got to be Mitt Romney. Viva_Daddy Sep 2012 #27
Plugging loopholes? Rmoney lives by them. chelsea0011 Sep 2012 #29
Romney/Ryan - We Will Tell You What You Need To Know 2012! TomCADem Sep 2012 #31
these which is those principles Skittles Sep 2012 #32
Ryan's plan is like a game of HANGMAN Skittles Sep 2012 #33
Based on his his tax returns alone, I can identify PLENTY of loopholes that should silvershadow Sep 2012 #34
 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
1. “Well, the specifics are these which is those principles I described are the heart of my policy.”
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:46 AM
Sep 2012

WTF does that mean??

valerief

(53,235 posts)
30. OMG, he doesn't even know how to construct a sentence.
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 05:29 PM
Sep 2012

He's the reincarnation of Dubya--without the frat boy warmth

 

Wilms

(26,795 posts)
2. Can someone help me understand what he said?
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:47 AM
Sep 2012

Or does one need to be a Republican to get it?


“Well, the specifics are these which is those principles I described are the heart of my policy.”

speedoo

(11,229 posts)
4. It's a waste of time to try to understand him.
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:50 AM
Sep 2012

He talked about "principles", but he has none, so no point in paying any attention to him.

 

heaven05

(18,124 posts)
3. Deluded
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 11:48 AM
Sep 2012

Anyone who votes for this ticket is stupidly deluded. The represent, to me, the creators of class warfare in this country. No one is saying, so far, it's class warfare. But, to me, it's just that with some race baiting, gender baiting, sexual orientation baiting thrown in to boot. Dangerous to the american way of life are these two clowns.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
7. They don't have any. They are not men of substance, just illusions, empty suits. See Krugman:
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 12:09 PM
Sep 2012

"I respectfully disagree, he was never a 'man of substance', this is who he always was ... the illusion of being of substance." -- Paul Krugman on Ryan.

Andy823

(11,495 posts)
9. The heart of Romneys policy?
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 12:10 PM
Sep 2012

Well that's pretty simple, the rich get richer and the rest of the country supports the rich, pays higher taxes so the rich can get more tax cuts, health care only for those who can pay through the nose for it, seniors cost to much so they are on their own with no help from the Romney government, and just elect him and things will be so much better, for the rich that is!

A man with no principles says trust him because of his principles, now that's funny!

Flashmann

(2,140 posts)
11. Mainly,what I take from this is:
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 12:23 PM
Sep 2012

rmoney lying proficiency is such,that he is able to pull it off,even when saying nothing......

Very nice........

 

banned from Kos

(4,017 posts)
13. Quit saying "loopholes" - they are DEDUCTIONS!
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:00 PM
Sep 2012

the average Joe doesn't know what a 1040 loophole is.

Romney has to kill the mortgage, charity, or health insurance employe deduction to make his plan work at all.

spedtr90

(719 posts)
14. If not targeting the middle class, why vote no on this?
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:16 PM
Sep 2012

HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES AUGUST 2, 2012

Home-Mortgage Deduction: Members defeated, 188-235, a Democratic motion stating that any Tax Code overhaul should retain deductions for home mortgages and charitable contributions. The underlying bill (HR 6169) did not identify tax breaks Republicans would like to see repealed. A yes vote backed the motion.

Ryan voted no.

Ayes: 188 (Democrat: 185; Republican: 3)

Nays: 235 (Democrat: 2; Republican: 233)

Abstained: 7 (Democrat: 4; Republican: 3)

busterbrown

(8,515 posts)
15. What I'm really trying to say is....
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:28 PM
Sep 2012

my agenda is to try scare the shit out of independent voters by
lying and making stuff up on the run.

DWinNJ

(261 posts)
16. If you stop to think about it
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:31 PM
Sep 2012

If you stop to think about it, a general increase in taxes (letting top level Bush cuts expire) is something that is doable. When you say you say you are going to close loopholes you are promising to do something that isn’t going to be effective, if you can do anything at all. Closing loopholes is like playing whack-a-mole. There are hundreds and each one is sacred to at least one legislator. It’s the kind of promise (lie) that (R)money knows he could later claim “I tried but…”

Mnpaul

(3,655 posts)
19. Romney is not going to get rid of tax loopholes
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 02:07 PM
Sep 2012

of which he is taking advantage. That may sell over at Fox News but doesn't fly in the real world.

DallasNE

(7,403 posts)
17. "Those Principles"?
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 01:59 PM
Sep 2012

What principles is he talking about. Does he indeed have any principles. Besides, Romney has not shown a workable framework on taxes. Gregory needed to ask Ryan to spell out the framework in a manner that made sense. Frankly, the networks should refuse their time unless they agree to give specific answers to the questions asked. Indeed, just a couple of days earlier both Romneys complained about the questions being asked. I still don't see how Romney call pull this off in a debate format.

aint_no_life_nowhere

(21,925 posts)
18. Frank Luntz: Mitt, just insert the words "tax loopholes" here and there to make it seem like you
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 02:02 PM
Sep 2012

have a clue.

Mitt Romney: FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST TELL ME SOMETHING, ANYTHING TO SAY TO GET ELECTED.

Botany

(70,501 posts)
20. Pure gibberish
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 02:56 PM
Sep 2012

“Well, the specifics are these which is those principles I described are the heart of my policy.”

high density

(13,397 posts)
21. They're both experts at talking at length about nothing
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 03:03 PM
Sep 2012

"We will fix X. X will be fixed. The X? We're going to fix X. If you want X fixed, vote for us. Obama failed at X, we will not fail."

oldsarge54

(582 posts)
22. Don't Ask, don't Tell, the Republican Way
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 03:04 PM
Sep 2012

Don't ask what will replace ACA.
Don't tell, who are your donors at you closed door events.
Don't ask what you promised to those donors.
Don't tell what job killing regulations are going to be dumped.
Don't ask about your plan on creating 12,000,000 jobs.
Don't tell why you won't release your taxes.
AND WHAT EVER YOU DO MITT, DON"T TELL WHO YOU THINK THE MIDDLE CLASS IS>
YOU would probably stick your foot in your mouth again.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
28. and your "home mortgage interest deduction".
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 04:57 PM
Sep 2012

That is the only "loophole" they are going to cut. It is the one that makes up for the stupendous tax cut give-away to the top bracket (35% down to 25%) by effectively raising taxes on the middle class. Fuckers.

Show us your damn tax returns rMoney.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
24. It's impossible to pay for Romney's tax cuts without eliminating middle class deductions
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 04:45 PM
Sep 2012

Mathematically impossible. It is, as your signature and Pres Clinton say, a matter of Arithmetic.

The TPC gave Romney's plan the benefit of every doubt, with generous assumptions about economic conditions, tax progressivity, bias on behalf of programs that incentivize savings and investment and the growth that the program would inspire.

Nothing worked. No matter how the economists massaged the numbers, the middle class still would wind up getting socked with a tax increase. The richest of the rich are so rich that if they get the same 20 percent cut in their marginal rate that everyone else does, the 1 percent still comes out way ahead. You can't eliminate enough deductions and loopholes to make up for it.

That means you have to make deeper cuts in the "tax expenditures" (deductions) that broadly benefit the middle class-things like the home mortgage interest deduction and deductibility of employer-provided health insurance.

If you factor in other promises that Romney has made, such as not cutting defense spending or Social Security and Medicare benefits for today's senior citizens or about-to-be senior citizens, things get even worse.

http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_21257137


The paper:

Our major conclusion is that a revenue-neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed – including reducing marginal tax rates substantially, eliminating the individual alternative minimum tax (AMT) and maintaining all tax breaks for saving and investment – would provide large tax cuts to high-income households, and increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers. This is true even when we bias our assumptions about which and whose tax expenditures are reduced to make the resulting tax system as progressive as possible. For instance, even when we assume that tax breaks – like the charitable deduction, mortgage interest deduction, and the exclusion for health insurance – are completely eliminated for higher-income households first, and only then reduced as necessary for other households to achieve overall revenue-neutrality– the net effect of the plan would be a tax cut for high-income households coupled with a tax increase for middle-income households.

In addition, we also assess whether these results hold if we assume that revenue reductions are partially offset by higher economic growth. Although reasonable models would show that these tax changes would have little effect on growth, we show that even with implausibly large growth effects, revenue neutrality would still require large reductions in tax expenditures and would likely result in a net tax increase for lower- and middle-income households and tax cuts for high-income households.

It would be possible to reduce the regressivity of such plans or even to maintain progressivity in such plans with reductions in the tax rate cuts for high-income taxpayers and/or significant reductions in the tax preferences for saving and investment, including the preferential rates on capital gains and dividends.

http://www.brookings.edu/research/papers/2012/08/01-tax-reform-brown-gale-looney


And we all know that the last paragraph is not what Romney proposes - he has specifically said he will keep the preferential rates for capital gains and dividends.

The response of the Romney campaign to this was to accuse the Tax Policy Center of bias - despite quoting it themselves: Romney Camp Cited Same Think Tank They Now Denounce As ‘Liberal’

Viva_Daddy

(785 posts)
27. Well, if anyone knows "tax loopholes" it's got to be Mitt Romney.
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 04:54 PM
Sep 2012

But I won't take any bets that he'll close the loopholes that benefit the 1%.

chelsea0011

(10,115 posts)
29. Plugging loopholes? Rmoney lives by them.
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 05:06 PM
Sep 2012

He must be talking about tax credits for the middle and working class.

TomCADem

(17,387 posts)
31. Romney/Ryan - We Will Tell You What You Need To Know 2012!
Sun Sep 9, 2012, 07:53 PM
Sep 2012

A new view of transparency and accountability.

 

silvershadow

(10,336 posts)
34. Based on his his tax returns alone, I can identify PLENTY of loopholes that should
Sun Sep 23, 2012, 08:38 PM
Sep 2012

be closed. And now that the American people have seen how he's been mooching off everyone while at the same time deriding them, we must close them. For the good of all of us. I bet his country club friends are gonna be pissed if we can manage to get'r done.

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