HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Latest Breaking News (Forum) » GOP plan: No HS diploma? ...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 04:54 PM

GOP plan: No HS diploma? No unemployment check

This is one of the most ridiculous proposals I've ever seen.

http://bottomline.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/09/10075106-gop-plan-no-hs-diploma-no-unemployment-check

(snip)
Out of work and without a high school diploma? If you’re collecting unemployment insurance, you may soon be out of luck.

As Congress returns from the holiday recess, one of the most pressing items on its agenda will the two-month extension of jobless benefits enacted late last month. The compromise deal, part of a two-month extension of a payroll tax cut, tabled debate on wider reforms to the unemployment insurance program.

Those reforms include shortening the length of time jobless workers can collect benefits and a provision that would require anyone collecting them to have a high school diploma or be enrolled in an adult education program working toward a General Educational Development, or GED, certificate.


If they implement this idiotic idea they need to make sure they pay every person without a diploma every single penny they've paid into the Unemployment INSURANCE program. There are people without a diploma who have been paying into UI for 40 - 50 years. These right wingers really are morons. They really make me sick.

48 replies, 5585 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 48 replies Author Time Post
Reply GOP plan: No HS diploma? No unemployment check (Original post)
Speed8098 Jan 2012 OP
Fearless Jan 2012 #1
Speed8098 Jan 2012 #2
Nihil Jan 2012 #17
provis99 Jan 2012 #4
Wind Dancer Jan 2012 #47
gtar100 Jan 2012 #3
karynnj Jan 2012 #5
sad sally Jan 2012 #6
cstanleytech Jan 2012 #11
Roland99 Jan 2012 #7
Rowdyboy Jan 2012 #10
sofa king Jan 2012 #15
Speed8098 Jan 2012 #16
Roland99 Jan 2012 #20
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #21
mac56 Jan 2012 #25
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #26
LanternWaste Jan 2012 #27
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #28
LanternWaste Jan 2012 #29
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #30
mac56 Jan 2012 #31
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #34
mac56 Jan 2012 #35
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #36
mac56 Jan 2012 #37
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #38
Speed8098 Jan 2012 #39
Still Blue in PDX Jan 2012 #40
Kellerfeller Jan 2012 #43
riderinthestorm Jan 2012 #48
amyrose2712 Jan 2012 #23
WingDinger Jan 2012 #8
renegade000 Jan 2012 #12
abelenkpe Jan 2012 #9
Trillo Jan 2012 #13
neverforget Jan 2012 #14
Evasporque Jan 2012 #18
JoePhilly Jan 2012 #19
yellowcanine Jan 2012 #22
mac56 Jan 2012 #32
nineteen50 Jan 2012 #24
durablend Jan 2012 #44
Lil Missy Jan 2012 #33
Still Blue in PDX Jan 2012 #41
unkachuck Jan 2012 #42
lonestarnot Jan 2012 #45
unionworks Jan 2012 #46

Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 04:58 PM

1. It just goes to show you how out of touch they are! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fearless (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:05 PM

2. "Out of touch" is being kind.

They don't even realize the people they would be alienating would be their own base.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Reply #2)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 07:35 AM

17. Sadder still ...

... is the fact that so many of those voting for them don't even realise that they *should* be
alienated by such behaviour but they are too ignorant/stupid/brainwashed to consider just
what is being said & done by "their" team ...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Fearless (Reply #1)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:12 PM

4. they're not out of touch, they're just evil.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to provis99 (Reply #4)

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:26 PM

47. Beyond evil!

What do they think will happen to these people? They will not be able to buy the basics to stay alive, for Gawd's sake. I am starting to think these Repuke policies are designed for just that. Actually, I've thought that the case for a long time with all the programs they're trying to cut. GRRR!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:08 PM

3. More and more and more - yes, they really are making me sick too.

No shortage of ideas from them on hurting people. They will be our downfall if we don't take care of their dominance on power and media.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:17 PM

5. Not just that, but that if they undertake adult education,

the government will pay for the classes AND given them a stipend equal to what they would have received as unemployment benefits. In addition, I think the allowable "adult education" should be expanded beyond just a GED. If a person has been working at some trade, there programs could be created to include a combination of the basic math/English requirements and programs to enhance the skills they need for the type of work they want to return to or consider. The program should also include internships that could potentially lead to jobs or at least some additional job placement opportunities.

Even then, I agree with you, that they and their employers paid into unemployment insurance and if they want to take unemployment and look for a job without having a high school degree, then they should be allowed to.

However, a large percent of people out of work lack for nether education or job experience. There is a shortage of jobs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:19 PM

6. Sounds like a plan to initiate discrimination. Recall early in 2011 when some employers

were advertising that unemployed people need not apply? This quickly ended when the EEOC started an investigation of discrimination. This smacks of the same.
#####

It describes a policy — perhaps not discriminatory on its face - that has the effect of disproportionately screening out applicants in a legally protected group, said Barry Hartstein, an employment lawyer with Littler Mendelson, in Chicago.

One of the earliest cases involved a company that required a high school diploma, said Hartstein, who focuses on equal employment issues as a management lawyer. Forty years ago, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that requirement screened out African-Americans disproportionately because the percentage of black applicants who did not have high school diplomas was higher than that of white applicants.

The key is whether the job requirement is legitimate and justified by business necessity, Hartstein said.

The 54 representatives who complained to the EEOC noted the unemployment rate is higher among African Americans and Hispanics than whites. According to the most recent data available from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the jobless rate in February was 8 percent for whites, 15.3 percent for blacks and 11.6 percent for Hispanics. Overall, the U.S. jobless rate was 8.9 percent.

http://www.chron.com/business/sixel/article/Working-Getting-hired-is-easier-if-you-have-a-job-1686438.php?du

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to sad sally (Reply #6)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 07:24 PM

11. Well are you really suprised though? I mean the GOP has largely been advocates of discrimination

towards gays for example by kicking them out the military and by denying them equal rights when it comes to marriage.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:22 PM

7. what employees pay unemployment tax? Employers pay that

perhaps there are states or municipalities that require it, though?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roland99 (Reply #7)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 06:54 PM

10. No you're right, in the US all unemployment taxes are paid by employers....

not employees. Regardless, workers pay enough in other taxes that they should be entitled to unemployment when out of work through no fault of their own. Instituting a "high school degree" requirement is just stupid punitive Republican bullshit like drug tests for welfare and food stamp recipients. Its legalized racism basically.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Rowdyboy (Reply #10)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 06:47 AM

15. They're directly paid by employers, but employees definitely pay for all of it.

Employees pay for it because employers immediately pass the costs on to the employees, in the form of lower wages, longer hours, fewer breaks, fewer perqs, fewer raises, a more hostile work environment, and so on.

What makes me curious about this scheme is the GOP relies entirely upon poorly-educated Americans to support them in the polls. The number of voters the Republicans actually represent is statistically nil.

The number of painfully ignorant voters who support the Republicans even though they represent interests which conflict with their own forms the voting "base" upon which the GOP depends.

But they're stupid, so maybe the GOP is banking that they won't understand until it's too late... which is a typical, but cynical, approach.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roland99 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 06:53 AM

16. You are correct

Please excuse my misspeak.

The subject matter just caused me to see red and my fingers worked faster then my brain.

I graduated however none of the generation before me did in my family and I suspect most families. It is so arrogant of these pieces of garbage to forget their heritage and once again try to piss on the poor and downtrodden.

I'll probably get flamed for this but I am one that believes there are too many college educated idiots in society today. Please don't misunderstand. I don't mean all college educated people are idiots, far from it. I mean garbage in, garbage out. If you have a mediocre high school student who attends college, usually a community college because they can't get accepted anywhere else, the end result is a mediocre college graduate who thinks they are smarter than those that did not attend college.

I see it in my industry daily. I am a specialty subcontractor who provides a service and product that, in most cases, has to follow specifications written by architects and get final approval from not only the architect, but a whole host of engineers, administrative people and others who know diddly squat about the product and service I provide. I am a commercial overhead door company.

Sounds pretty simple right? Overhead doors, they open, they close, they provide security, keep the cold out in the winter and the cool air in during the summer. Wrong, yep, I said wrong.

Due to the previously mentioned college educated idiots I now have to jump through hoops just to get a simple insulated service door approved, and once it IS approved and installed, it takes me forever (45 - 90 days) to get paid by the general contractor.

You see, some college educated idiot who writes the subcontracts decided to add a "pay when paid" clause, which in 95 out of 100 cases is a non binding clause, but if you fight it, they just move on to the next guy who isn't contract savvy and who will install this product for pennies.

The architect who, in most cases knows nothing about doors, decides to reinvent the wheel. The problem is they are making the wheel square but they don't want to hear that. These snot noses (I was hanging doors before most of them were even thought of) expect the manufacturer to completely retool their factory to satisfy their mistaken understanding of the functionality of an overhead door. What used to be a straight forward industry is now rife with unnecessary paperwork because some mediocre college graduate thinks he/she are smarter than those of us who have been doing this for 30+ years, not to mention they feel the need to justify their mere existence by generating more paperwork than NASA did to put a man on the moon in 1969.

Just to let you know, I work for all of the city agencies here in NY. The DEP, DSNY, DOS, FDNY, SCA, and Port Authority of NY & NJ to name a few. If you happen to go to one or more of the new local NY sports stadiums (not named on purpose) and you look up as you're getting your snack, soft drink, or your beer or you look around and see an overhead door, my company installed it. Due to the confidentiality agreement I signed I can tell you I am involved in the most high profile project in the world right now in NY, I just can't give you details.

I tell you this so you understand that I am not just some dumb door guy who doesn't know what I'm talking about.

I know I was somewhat condescending in my description of architects and I apologize to those architects that are truly professional and are not part of the group I've addressed here. There are some however as time goes on we are seeing less and less of them.

The bottom line of my rant is, not everyone is cut out to go to college. Somebody needs to provide those services which do not require a college education and if everyone goes to college, who is going to be left to do that? Who is going to work the assembly lines if manufacturing returns strong? Who is going to provide customer service? Who is going to collect our garbage? Who is going to drive our trucks? And the list goes on and on.

Sorry:



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 08:34 AM

20. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Reply #16)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 09:46 AM

21. On one hand

 

I completely agree that too many mediocre students go to college and get degrees that are relatively easy, have no market and do so with a mediocre GPA.

On the other hand, I've seen people on here who get upset when students are allowed to opt out of secondary education, for whatever reason.

Statistics show that those with HS diplomas or GEDs have a much better employment rate and overall lifetime income. Sure, some functions just fine without it and this wouldn't impact them. But for those who cannot find work, this would motivate them to pursue that GED since they

A) have some time to do it (unemployed)
B) can get benefits even if they are pursuing it, even if they haven't completed it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #21)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 02:01 PM

25. It's not a realistic option for everyone.

It's naive to think that it is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mac56 (Reply #25)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 03:18 PM

26. Why is pursuing it

 

not realistic?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #26)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 03:27 PM

27. Why is pursuing it...

Why is pursuing it necessary?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #27)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 03:31 PM

28. It's not "necessary"

 

But it sure helps the person.



The unemployment rate for people without a high school diploma remains persistently high. Last month it was 13.2 percent.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/12/01/143016866/unemployment-falls-to-8-6-percent

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #28)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:03 PM

29. Getting as PhD and a Masters in molecular Biology helps too.

Getting as PhD and a Masters in molecular Biology helps too.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LanternWaste (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 04:24 PM

30. Yep

 

But a PhD costs more than $40.

And although you can work on your PhD on your own, no reputable school will grant you one doing it that way. There are plenty of ways to study for the GED for free at the library and online.

And the change in pay and unemployment changes more significantly for those with a diploma/GED.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #26)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:32 AM

31. Certainly you would agree that not everyone shines at being a student.

And others had extremely bad experiences in learning settings.

Forcing them to do this is not realistic.

Some pegs are square and don't fit into round holes. One-size-fits-all doesn't.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mac56 (Reply #31)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 10:11 AM

34. Sure but

 

the GED is setting the bar pretty low. If someone cannot pass it (with actually trying) there is a pretty good chance they will be receiving disability.

The vast majority of people I know who do not have a diploma/GED are perfectly capable. Of course there are a few exceptions as you described.

Again, education is helping the person out in the long run.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #34)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:22 PM

35. "The GED is setting the bar pretty low."

Not. For. Everybody.

Perhaps there is an empathy equivalency exam that you can take. I believe your results would be enlightening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mac56 (Reply #35)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:40 PM

36. Of course

 

not for everybody. But pretty much everybody who is not already receiving disability.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #36)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 04:51 PM

37. You are painting with an extremely broad brush.

And making sweeping generalizations.

I don't understand throwing UI recipients under the bus when they're already in a difficult place in life. Expecting them to jump through additional hoops just because they all SHOULD be able to do it. Telling them, "the sole, singluar reason you're unemployed is because you're too stupid," is extremely elitist and coarse.

In any case, I'm done with this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mac56 (Reply #37)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 05:02 PM

38. Sorry, I just don't buy the "too stupid" argument

 

Of course it is easier for some than others. I've tutored for inner city drop-outs to take the GED and I can't think of one who simply could not get a level of competency for it unless they simply gave it little effort.

But if they really cannot grasp the level of material on the GED, with really trying, then there job opportunities are going to remain very limited and there is not a lot we can do about it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #38)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 06:43 PM

39. I never do this but.......

Since you said you've "tutored for inner city drop-outs" I just can't help myself. I apologize in advance.

"But if they really cannot grasp the level of material on the GED, with really trying, then there job opportunities are going to remain very limited and there is not a lot we can do about it."

Don't you really mean "their"? OK, flame away, I deserve it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:21 PM

40. I never do this either, but +1.

No flames here.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Reply #39)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 11:31 PM

43. Yep, I deserve it

 

I do know the proper usage, sometime the old fingers and brain just don't cooperate. I also know to/too, effect/affect, no/know.

Heck, a lot of times I'll be thinking "and" and my stupid fingers type "of" or "is" or some other small word. I never have figured out how/why that happens. And it isn't just when I'm in a hurry.

Am I the only freak that happens to?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kellerfeller (Reply #43)

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 01:55 PM

48. Nope, happens to me too. Just wanted to chime in though and say I agree with you.

I haven't tutored inner city drop-outs but I have tutored immigrants in English, many of whom were 6th, 7th, 8th grade drop outs from schools in their home countries who are coming from severely disadvantaged backgrounds. While you'd think getting a GED is even harder for non-English speakers, the women I've helped are HUNGRY to pass the test and work damn hard. Two of the women were from Mexico where they didn't even have any school within 300 miles of their farms. They basically self-taught themselves. More than a few people I knew had to work right after finishing 8th grade to help support their families. One set of parents (they weren't my students) graduated high school at the same time as their eldest daughter! They were from Greece and knew absolutely NO English when they arrived. Within 6 years they had an excellent grasp of English. The picture of them with their oldest girl - all of them holding diplomas was thrilling. Especially considering the father had never gone beyond 5th grade! Their youngest daughter is best friends with my youngest daughter so I know their story very well.

I also believe getting a high school diploma or GED should be the basic educational standard we should try to attain for everyone. It helps their job situation enormously for one. And does some good things for their self-esteem as well.

While a GED is beyond reach for some, getting it is usually subsidized. You can usually do it while you are working, or looking for work. There are a LOT of community resources to help people reach this goal. Honestly, I'm not fussed about this Rethug proposal and think it should be up for debate and consideration. There's merit in it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Roland99 (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:50 AM

23. Here is NJ we pay some.

It is designated SUI/SDI on our paychecks. I don't know the percentage. But we definitely pay partially into it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 05:30 PM

8. It will bite them. When they alienate every demographic but one. Western europeans.

 

Then they are DOOMED. And it will be soon.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WingDinger (Reply #8)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 07:29 PM

12. i take it you mean descendants of europeans?

I think most actual Western europeans would think the Republicans are anti-social, right-wing lunatics

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 06:40 PM

9. Several of my tea party relatives have no HS diploma

maybe this will help them finally understand voting republican really isn't in their best interest?

LOL! No of course it wont!


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Mon Jan 9, 2012, 11:55 PM

13. I'm going to have to make sure that I vote for at least one high school dropout in each election.

I can't say I've ever seen such a candidate on any ballot, but clearly, dropouts are an unrepresented group.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:04 AM

14. Ridiculous is how they roll.

How else to appeal to their crazy base?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 07:43 AM

18. Destroy education...eliminate jobs...make education a requirement to get unemployment benefits....

FUcking brilliant.....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 07:54 AM

19. The GOP also got angry that Obama wants every kid to have the ability to go to college.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:20 AM

22. This fits in with the GOP notion that being poor is your fault.

It doesn't matter that someone may have had to drop out of school to get a job and help feed and clothe their younger siblings - for the GOP narrative one size fits all. If you are poor and uneducated, it is always YOUR fault. Since we know that all rich people are rich because they deserve to be, it stands to reason that all poor people are poor because they deserve to be poor. Certainly is simpler that way, isn't it?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to yellowcanine (Reply #22)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 12:33 AM

32. +1000

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:54 AM

24. Next

Make birth control illegal, then kick anyone off unemployment that gets pregnant.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nineteen50 (Reply #24)

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 08:42 AM

44. Just wait till they make being poor illegal! n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 03:28 AM

33. It's a deliberate poison pill.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:27 PM

41. Good grief! When I think about the literacy level demonstrated by the signs at Republican rallies

I have to just wonder where they come up with these ideas. Once again, they take the term "double standard" to new levels.

indeed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Wed Jan 11, 2012, 09:55 PM

42. "...would require anyone collecting them to have a high school diploma..."

 

....I see, a carrot and a stick, an incentive....

....I like carrots, sticks and incentives....how about no tax deductions for corporations until they've created new domestic jobs....this sort of works hand-in-hand with the unemployment incentive....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 09:05 AM

45. More idjicy from the idjits!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speed8098 (Original post)

Thu Jan 12, 2012, 09:23 AM

46. I have worked with people

 

...who had no h.s. diploma, worked their ass off and were quite good at their jobs. Some of them weren't capable of getting one, but in the type of job it was, it. Was not necessary. The true end goal of the 1% is an enslaved populace of disposable labor. They want nazi germany here and now. And the time. To fight them is now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread