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Fri Jul 6, 2012, 03:32 PM

'Bye-bye, Miss American Pie' then US helicopter appears to fire on Afghans

Source: The Guardian

A video has surfaced online that appears to show a US helicopter crew singing "Bye-bye Miss American Pie" before blasting a group of Afghan men with a Hellfire missile.

The footage comes in the wake of a string of damaging videos and pictures showing US forces in Afghanistan urinating on the bodies of dead insurgents, and posing with the remains of suicide bombers and civilians killed for sport by a group of rogue soldiers.

If it is proved to be authentic, it could further undermine the image of foreign forces in a country where there is already deep resentment owing to civilian deaths and a perception among many Afghans that US troops lack respect for Afghan culture and people.

The posting says the video was recorded in Wardak province, which lies south-west of the capital, Kabul, in September 2009. The caption refers sarcastically to a group of "innocent farmers planting poppy seeds in the middle of the road".

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jul/06/bye-bye-american-pie-afghanistan



Of course that song is "American Pie" by Don McLean. Telling huh?

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Reply 'Bye-bye, Miss American Pie' then US helicopter appears to fire on Afghans (Original post)
alp227 Jul 2012 OP
loyalsister Jul 2012 #1
awoke_in_2003 Jul 2012 #16
sinkingfeeling Jul 2012 #2
DCKit Jul 2012 #51
LibDemAlways Jul 2012 #3
L0oniX Jul 2012 #7
LibDemAlways Jul 2012 #37
stockholmer Jul 2012 #4
Scootaloo Jul 2012 #26
NickB79 Jul 2012 #5
unreadierLizard Jul 2012 #8
humblebum Jul 2012 #10
NickB79 Jul 2012 #11
Psephos Jul 2012 #20
loyalsister Jul 2012 #18
NutmegYankee Jul 2012 #19
loyalsister Jul 2012 #21
PavePusher Jul 2012 #23
loyalsister Jul 2012 #25
Nostradammit Jul 2012 #27
NutmegYankee Jul 2012 #40
loyalsister Jul 2012 #41
NutmegYankee Jul 2012 #42
PavePusher Jul 2012 #43
loyalsister Jul 2012 #44
NutmegYankee Jul 2012 #45
loyalsister Jul 2012 #47
NutmegYankee Jul 2012 #48
loyalsister Jul 2012 #49
L0oniX Jul 2012 #6
permatex Jul 2012 #13
PavePusher Jul 2012 #24
permatex Jul 2012 #33
warrprayer Jul 2012 #34
Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #32
KansDem Jul 2012 #38
tabasco Jul 2012 #46
Comrade Grumpy Jul 2012 #9
Ian David Jul 2012 #12
triplepoint Jul 2012 #14
may3rd Jul 2012 #15
awoke_in_2003 Jul 2012 #17
Sirveri Jul 2012 #29
wordpix Jul 2012 #22
mzmolly Jul 2012 #28
Quantess Jul 2012 #30
mainer Jul 2012 #31
zonkers Jul 2012 #35
LineReply I
ThomasP Jul 2012 #36
hughee99 Jul 2012 #39
Citizen Worker Jul 2012 #50
dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #52
DustyJoe Jul 2012 #53

Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 03:35 PM

1. Disgusting!

This incident may have killed my affinity for that song!

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #1)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 08:49 PM

16. I have always hated it. Nt

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 03:43 PM

2. Can we please get out of there? We've already destroyed our image

around the world and everybody hates us.

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Response to sinkingfeeling (Reply #2)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 03:22 PM

51. Self Delete. nt

 

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 03:53 PM

3. Criticism of the military is now practically forbidden in this country. Sporting

events have devolved into patriotic orgies routinely featuring at least one "hero" of the game.

In this climate it's easy for abuses to be swept under the rug. I'm noticing the article you reference was from the UK. Figures.

As long as " the military can do no wrong" mindset is the norm, and it's ok to mindlessly hate people from the Middle East, this sort of crap will continue.

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Response to LibDemAlways (Reply #3)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:06 PM

7. Criticism of the US military is now practically forbidden on DU too IMO.

Just watch my posts get hidden.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #7)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:40 AM

37. It's an area where, unless you tread extremely carefully, you are

bound to step on some toes. Attended a Dodger game July 4. It was one giant rally for the military. Spectators were told at one point to stand up and salute - yes, that's right salute - military personnel on the field holding up an enormous American flag. No way.

I have no doubt individuals in the military perform acts of selfless bravery under difficult circumstances. But the institution as a whole - and the culture of killing that it represents - plenty to criticize.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 03:56 PM

4. is not it about time to bring back the anti-war movement w/ full force, regardless of who is POTUS?

 

And I so do NOT want to hear, 'but Rmoney would be worse'. The blood has now also been on a commander-in-chief's hands with a 'D' behind his name.

For years.

In bucketloads.


Empire is madness

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Response to stockholmer (Reply #4)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 01:57 AM

26. I'm sorry, I honestly laughed out loud...

In full force, you say?

What, are you going to sing Bob Dylan songs at them off-key? Maybe come up with a witty chant? Oh! Can we have a puppet show?

I'm not knocking the urge to make the effort, really, I'm not, our wars need to end, and I give a big thumbs-up to those who understand and share the sentiment. it's just... really? America's "anti-war movement" is a fucking joke. And when you consider the sad state of protest in America in the first place, that's pretty damn bad.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:04 PM

5. OK, so I watched the video

And it does appear that the helicopter fired on men doing... something... in the middle of a road. Where they planting explosives? Possibly, but since I'm not military I can't say for sure.

What I'm wondering is, if there hadn't been a pilot singing a song while doing what he did, would there have been a controversy? What if he were humming Flight of the Valkeries? What if he were singing Brittney Spear's "Hit Me Baby One More Time"? Because, without the brief 5-second song line, this appears to be like any one of thousands of by-the-book military strikes. Why does this one get such outrage and the thousands of others don't?

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:09 PM

8. This is true.

I guess people like to get mad before the facts emerge.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:25 PM

10. The film really reveals nothing more than we know has

 

been going on for a decade. Were the victims planting a bomb? It doesn't show. Were they innocent civilians?
Who knows? I am very inclined to say the film is being used to present as fact something that is not.

However, that war should have been over years ago.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #10)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:35 PM

11. Hell, this kind of behavior has been going on since time began

Take young men pumped on testosterone, give them weapons, and you get stuff like this.

You can't ask someone to take another person's life without doing some mental damage, IMO.

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #11)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 09:24 PM

20. Your posts are good in this thread. n/t

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Response to NickB79 (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 08:58 PM

18. It creates an air of celebration

I can see celebrating about following an accomplishment but celebrating while carrying out an action that will or even might result in killing people is a little disconcerting.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #18)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 09:13 PM

19. Huzzah! Cheering after a victory is as old as humanity

Every warrior has celebrated and cheered their victories, often right above the bodies of their fallen foes. That some people expect soldiers to be solem and serious is ridiculous.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #19)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 10:35 PM

21. I would hope we have advanced beyond such barbarism

and developed a slight bit of empathy.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #21)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 12:37 AM

23. Have you ever been in a war as a combatant? n/t

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #23)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 01:11 AM

25. No but I have talked with veterans

My dad talked about it. He made a distinction between killing people knowing they were there and having a slight bit of doubt. He also said that it didn't just haunt him he hated every second of it whole he was there.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #25)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 02:07 AM

27. My father told me the ones who celebrated usually ended up KIA

He didn't understand it but said it happened often enough to leave him no doubt about the karmic implications.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #21)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 02:20 PM

40. Humans have advanced technologically, but not emotionally.

We are still the same people who once carved out vast empires in antiquity. That's one reason I love to study history. Both the weaknesses and the virtuous traits have remained constant throughout human history. Technology has changed, but the human condition has not.

I can't heap blame on a soldier who pumped up on adrenaline sings as he goes about his duty. It's a technique to combat fear and keep control over their emotions. The shear elation of survival from a battle often lead men to cheer. The emotion felt is one of accomplishment and thankfulness of still being alive. It's easy to sit back in a nice chair and condemn these men and women for letting their emotions get the best of them.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #40)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:50 PM

41. Again barbarism

Of course, technology allows the soldier to put physical distance between himself and the people they kill. In some cases understanding the mission with a video game mentality is understandable.
When the distance still allows for a distinct perception of the reality of killing people it was different for my father. And I find the idea of celebrating as is they have reached the next level in a video game disconcerting.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #41)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:59 PM

42. The Romans called opposing tribes Barbaric, but they were no more civilized in behavior.

People forget that. Advanced as a social structure and in technology, yes. But they were absolutely brutal in battle, ruling, and punishments.

You are entitled to your opinion. Just don't mistake your delusions for reality.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #42)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:16 PM

43. You're being far too diplomatic.

 

The irony should be self-evident....

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #42)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:54 PM

44. It's based on what I have heard from my dad

He thought killing was something to mourn and hated every minute of it. Are you really taking issue with my use of an adjective based on it's previous usage?

My "delusions" are based on those conversations and my studies in psychology. I won't refer to your interpretations that way as they are based on a different experience.

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #44)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:30 PM

45. I had a friend describe an attack on his unit in Afghanistan.

I can tell he is haunted by what he witnessed and endured. But he straight up told me that the emotion he and his fellow soldiers felt right after repulsing that attack was "jubilation". And that it lasted until that night, when the full gravity of what just happened dawned on him.

Don't judge a soldier a sociopath by what he sings in the heat of battle. Once the adrenaline wears off, the somber side will break through.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #45)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 09:01 PM

47. I never suggested that they were sociopaths

I just feel that "praise the lord and pass the ammunition" is not necessarily adaptive and certainly has a sense of diminishing the gravity of what is actually happening.

What are the consequences of having it suddenly sink in when they are not prepared? Or finding themselves in a situation where they are suddenly woken up and jump up ready to kill their kids? How does one make sense of the cheering then and the seriousness of their behavior when that startle response shows up in their home?

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Response to loyalsister (Reply #47)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 05:35 AM

48. I don't see it as a startle response.

I see singing as a coping mechanism. War is a horrible thing, and in the heat of the moment we do things that may outrage our sensibilities at home. They may appear to be enjoying killing, singing "this is the day that we die" but that's just because the adrenaline hasn't worn off.

The killing family in the night I associate more with PTSD.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #48)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 06:09 AM

49. The startle response is part of PTSD

He doesn't tolerate sudden noise disturbances very well when he is deeply relaxed or sleeping. He has adapted by leaving the television on all night and maintaining a loud environment in his home. When the noise is continuous he isn't startled. But when he is by chance startled he reverts back to a behavior from his military training and combat experience.

It is a terrible adjustment to have to rectify common belief system that includes not killing people with a necessary behavior. To revel in it is very different from adapting to the circumstances.

I think attributing behavior to adrenaline is a very simplistic justification. People can have a lot of energy and still understand the gravity of what has happened.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:04 PM

6. American sociopaths in the making. US military ...rah rah rah ...patriotism ...rah rah rah

American sociopaths ...coming to your police force soon. Oh sorry if this offends anyone ...NOT! Don't tell me I have to love our military, give a damned pledge of allegiance or sing America the Beautiful either! To any alerter: Go ahead and alert on this because you want me to go along with what you think is right and go against my morals and principals.

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:49 PM

13. Are you say that all members of the military are sociopaths?

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 12:40 AM

24. Why go to the bother of an alert?

 

Sometimes, a hearty "Go fuck yourself, you ignorant, arrogant ass" is all the response required for blatent fucktardery.

And it leaves the steaming pile of feces in the middle of the room for all to observe and pontificate upon.

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:28 AM

33. A huge +1000000000

 

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Response to PavePusher (Reply #24)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 09:35 AM

34. thank you

for saying what I felt after reading that



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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:38 AM

32. I'd recc this if I could. nt

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 01:34 PM

38. "American sociopaths ...coming to your police force soon."

They're already here...


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Response to L0oniX (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:49 PM

46. You would cheer if the bomb these guys was planting

had blown up a truckload of troops.

Yeah, you're morally superior.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:10 PM

9. I wonder how long until the next Afghan soldier turns his gun on Western troops.

We need to get the hell out of there. Now. Not in 2014 or 2024. Now.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:38 PM

12. If they're shooting legitimate targets, does it matter that they're singing?

And if it does, this isn't really the WORST thing they could be singing, is it?

I mean, "Another one bites the dust," would have been much worse.

Of course, that really all depends on whether they were legitimate targets or not, I think.



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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 04:51 PM

14. Music from the Band of "Brothers?"

 


.
.
.

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.
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.
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.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 08:31 PM

15. They lost the Ride Of The Valkyries tape ?

 

Must be an army thing
Charlie hated classical music.
Terry hates rock-n-roll




Wonder why they don't play 'Village People" ?
I'm sure they HATE the village people

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Response to may3rd (Reply #15)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 08:52 PM

17. Homer Simpson's...

Nacho Man is going to be my new earworm

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Response to may3rd (Reply #15)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 04:32 AM

29. Submariners love the village people, was the most popular thing on my iPod.

Seriously, people would ask to listen to in the navy in the chow line.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Fri Jul 6, 2012, 11:31 PM

22. this is what happens when US is desperate for soldiers & takes just about anyone, then gives them

3 or 4 tours of duty

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 02:55 AM

28. Odd song choice for this generation.

I'm skeptical, frankly.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 05:56 AM

30. The most irritating song, ever.

It drives me out of places the same as a stink bomb would.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:28 AM

31. Don McLean would be appalled

This is definitely not his politics.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 03:15 PM

35. Can we be that shocked that our precision bombs are delivered with a theme song?

Its who we are. The real outcry (not from DUers) will come when other nations start utilizing the same technology against us.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sat Jul 7, 2012, 08:02 PM

36. I

wonder if the British sang songs while killing continental soldiers in the revolution. You would think by now we would know that empire building is doomed to failure.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Sun Jul 8, 2012, 02:04 PM

39. I'm sure they were all "suspected militants", so it's okay. n/t

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 03:10 PM

50. This is what happens when "we support our troops" replaces rational thinking and keeps these wars

going on and on and on.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 03:24 PM

52. Hardly appropriate for a crew to sing that

The day the music died was Buddy Holly's plane crash.

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Response to alp227 (Original post)

Mon Jul 9, 2012, 04:19 PM

53. Awwww C'mon

What the heck is so nefarious about someone in the military singing a tune while fighting.
Do we know
. how many tours these guys served
. how many brothers-in-arms they personally have lost
How do you think YOU would act in combat ?
.
In 1968 in my infantry unit I would watch the guys in the mortar pit sychnronize (sp)
their charges with 2 mortars to one of our favorite songs at the time .....
.
ex..

We gotta get outta this place (phoomp phoomp) if it's the last thing we ever do
.
We are NOT in these combat warriors shoes or minds

They were ordered through the very TIGHT rules of engagement to interdict and deploy the missile
.
this was not a few beer buddies out on a lark.

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