New Mexico mother and son face prison time for incestuous relationship

[Blue_Adept]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by mcar (a host of the Latest Breaking News forum).

Source: Fox59 News

CLOVIS, N.M. – A 36-year-old New Mexico woman and her 19-year-old son face incest charges and say they’ll do anything to stay together.

Monica Mares gave Caleb Peterson up for adoption when he was an infant, according to KOB. When the two met later in life, they became romantically involved and decided to become a couple.

Police said a neighbor confronted them about their relationship; officers showed up at Peterson’s house and the couple told investigators they were sexually involved. They were then arrested.

Read more: http://fox59.com/2016/08/10/new-mexico-mother-and-son-face-prison-time-for-incestuous-relationship/

[Chemisse]

1. Is this really illegal?

It's gross, but as long as they are both adults, and don't have any children together, no harm is done.

[Blue_Adept]

2. The Laws

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_regarding_incest_in_the_United_States

New Mexico:

Prohibited Relationships: Persons known to be parents and children (including grandparents and grandchildren of every degree), brothers and sisters of half and whole blood, uncles and nieces, aunts and nephews.

Prohibited Acts: Marriage or sexual intercourse

Penalty: Up to 3y and $5,000 fine[34]

[Chemisse]

3. Interesting.

Some states have very high penalties too.

[Blue_Adept]

4. Yup. And you can see the historical side in it by how harsh it is

Take my state of MA where we had our puritanical origins and just how explicit the laws are on what's prohibited and how harsh the penalty is in comparison to some later states.

[Chemisse]

7. Rhode Island's approach seems sensible.

Marriage is prohibited. No penalties - you just can't get married.

[Blue_Adept]

9. Exactly

I know a lot of the laws on the books are designed to scare away people from doing the power dominant things that should not be allowed that's more in line with actual sexual abuse. But that's how incest is viewed by many as being nothing more than abuse. It's a very black/white view, unfortunately.

[OnDoutside]

12. What's the situation in West Virginia ?

[Chemisse]

13. Look up at post #2 for the link.

[Blue_Adept]

14. West Virgina

Prohibited Relationship:

Engaging with his or her father, mother, brother, sister, daughter, son, grandfather, grandmother, grandson, granddaughter, nephew, niece, uncle or aunt. The definition of parent and child includes adoptive and step.

Prohibited Acts:

Sexual intercourse (any act between persons involving penetration, however slight, of the female sex organ by the male sex organ or involving contact between the sex organs of one person and the mouth or anus of another person) or sexual intrusion (any act between persons involving penetration, however slight, of the female sex organ or of the anus of any person by an object for the purpose of degrading or humiliating the person so penetrated or for gratifying the sexual desire of either party)

Penalty:

5y to 15y and $500 to $5,000 fine

[Akicita]

22. Pure discrimination. Substitute same sex for same family and this law is where we were at 10 years

ago with same sex couples. Surprised the courts have not overturned the incest laws yet.

[Squinch]

53. Sorry, but that's nuts.

[Akicita]

55. In what way?

[cstanleytech]

57. If it was a case of an adult with a minor and or mentally disabled adult then yes its nuts

however in a case of legally competent adults? Sure freaky as hell though.

[Akicita]

65. We are talking strictly about consenting adults of course. It is freaky as hell to me too. Some

people think that men dressing up as women is freaky as hell too. Or men sleeping with men, old men sleeping with young women, etc. As long as they are consenting adults everybody should have the equal right to love who they choose or are attracted to. Once we break through the last bastions of bigotry and everybody has equal rights, our society will be much better off.

[awoke_in_2003]

63. Same sex couples

don't give birth to inbred babies. These laws exist for a reason- inbreeding causes a lot of problems.

[Akicita]

66. Women over 40 are more at risk of having babies with birth defects. Should we also ban

them from having sex? Or are their rights somehow more important?

[awoke_in_2003]

71. I wouldn't be against having

mandatory birth control. Then, if these sickos (the mom and son) want to get their freak on, then fine. The population is getting out of control, and sooner or later every country is going to look at clamping down on reproduction. We cannot keep going the way we are for much longer.

[uppityperson]

27. It's interesting how they put sexual abuse in the same part with consensual sex

for the purpose of degrading or humiliating the person so penetrated or for gratifying the sexual desire of either party

They are very different things, degrading/humiliating, and consensual sex.

Prohibit abuse, but consensual between adults of age, whatever.

[Akicita]

19. Why not? That's discrimination. The courts should overturn.

[Chemisse]

29. It is. But who wants to be a champion for incest?

The stigma against incest probably goes back to the genetic problems that afflicted royal families, who often inbred.

It really shouldn't apply today, at least not between consenting adults, because unions need not produce children, thanks to birth control.

On edit - Maybe the ACLU should take it on.

[Akicita]

38. Who wants to be a champion for incest? Those who believe in equal rights for all and are not

hypocrites. The stigma against gays and trans has been around for a long time too. You don't have to agree with people's lifestyle to fight for their equality under the law.

[Chemisse]

41. It would not be politically popular, so lawmakers would not touch it.

But it would be perfect for the ACLU to take on.

[Akicita]

43. Seems like I have heard that argument before concerning sexual rights.

I think adding an I to LBGTQ is appropriate. Unless equal rights for all make some people squeamish of course.

[scscholar]

52. "adding an I to LBGTQ is appropriate."

Interesting. Keeping the Republicans out of our bedrooms is so important. So important.

[Akicita]

54. Keeping government in general out of our bedrooms, but especially Republicans, is important.

Although I once dated a Republican and, at that time, I thought it was important to keep her in my bedroom as often as possible.

[Fiendish Thingy]

70. I think you are in a clear minority on this issue

Come back in 20 years, I don't think most folks will have "evolved" on the issue of incest.

Your persistent concern seems troll-ish, IMO.

[Akicita]

72. I think we we have seen that overcoming bigotry often takes a long time. How does pushing

for equal rights for all on a progressive site seem trollish to you?

[uppityperson]

20. I wonder why they prohibit the legal protections of marriage? Maybe being related they already have

such things? I don't know but wonder.

[Akicita]

23. It's called bigotry.

Last edited Wed Aug 10, 2016, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

[uppityperson]

24. Bigotry? Not understanding what marriage is combined with misunderstandings of genetics

Agree with you on that. "think of the children" doesn't really work here, unless one of the partners is under age of consent.

Freely consenting adults should be able to do what they want with each other.

[Akicita]

40. Right. It's called equality under the law.

[LanternWaste]

44. I'm bemused by how sincere your position appears

I'm bemused by how sincere your position appears in regards to conflating two separate issues into one false-equivalency.

[Akicita]

45. I am bemused that you are bemused. What two separate issues am I conflating?

I am only talking about one issue. Equal rights for all under the law.

[uppityperson]

46. Legal adults having sex in the privacy of their homes. How's it a "false equivalency"?

I'd appreciate it if you'd explain what you mean because I don't understand. Thank you.

[left-of-center2012]

17. So, 'kissing cousins' can copulate? n/t

[Marthe48]

48. My Great-uncle and his niece married

He was the youngest half-brother of my grandfather and she was my grandmother's sister's daughter. Even though they were uncle-niece, there was no blood relation. They were almost the same age. Married over 50 years, had 2 children, strong in their church. Both have been gone a few years. My family, their generation, was very embarrassed about the marriage, but it was legal.

[snooper2]

15. you know what they say- incest is best

Even better when you got some wanna-be gangsta shit going on

[Warpy]

32. "Wanna be gangsta?"

Excuse me?

[snooper2]

37. Did I bump into you?

promise was an accident

[Akicita]

42. Wow. I bet a procession of pictures like this featuring two men or two women would have gotten

a big laugh 20 years ago too. Still does in some circles.

[mainer]

5. consenting adults. Yucky but should they go to jail?

It seems to me that once you're an adult, you should be able to engage in any sexual behavior that doesn't harm someone else.

[Blue_Adept]

6. Pretty much in agreement

And while I have no interest in incest (though as a teenager I certainly thought some of my second cousins were hot as heck), the actual genetics and understanding of it has changed greatly since most of these laws were enacted.

Some of the laws that you can see upthread in my post also show just how puritanical it can get with what isn't allowed and how harshly it's dealt with. But such is the nature with anything sexual in this country.

[Akicita]

26. But such WAS the nature with anything sexual in this country. Nowdays the courts have ruled that

what consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom is not the governments business. People should be allowed to love who they fall in love with.

[dembotoz]

8. she is not the mother...the woman who adopted him is

[snooper2]

16. He came out of her when she was 16, now going back in 19 years later

Mares was just 16 when she gave birth to Peterson - whose pre-adoption name was Carlos - and he was adopted as a baby.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3725551/Mother-36-son-19-fell-love-met-year-gave-adoption-baby-say-willing-risk-JAIL-defend-love.html#ixzz4GwBJ6TcZ
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[closeupready]

35. lol, that was funny.

[StevieM]

60. They are both his mothers. The bonds of motherhood are not severed by a piece of paper

from a nation-state.

[Quantess]

10. At 36 she has a good chance of getting pregnant

That's the worst part

[Blue_Adept]

11. Consanguinity Fact Sheet -- Debunking Common Myths

http://www.larasig.com/node/2020

Background

Consanguinity is a term used to describe the relationship between couples who share at least one common ancestor. The term incest is defined differently in biological and legal settings. Incest usually refers to relationships between first-degree relatives, for example parent-child or sibling-sibling, but may include relationships between grandparent-grandchild or uncle-niece and aunt-nephew relationships. Legal definitions of incest may include unions between nonbiological relatives, such as stepfather and stepdaughter or between stepsiblings.

[Squinch]

56. They're not debunking anything. They say a 31.4% chance of severe birth defects.

[melm00se]

64. and to add to squinch

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/animals-and-us/201210/the-problem-incest

Take the results of a study of Czechoslovakian children whose fathers were first degree relatives. Fewer than half of the children who were the product of incestuous unions were completely healthy. Forty-two percent of them were born with severe birth defects or suffered early death and another 11 percent were mildly mentally impaired. This study is particularly instructive as it included a unique control group — the offspring of the same mothers but whose fathers were not the mothers’ relatives. When the same women were impregnated by a non-relative, only 7 percent of their children were born with a birth defect.

A group of genetic counselors reviewed the research on the biological consequences of sex between relatives (consanguineous relationships) (here). They found a surprisingly small increase (about 4 percent) in birth defects among the children of married cousins. Incest between first degree relatives, however, was a different story. The researchers examined four studies (including the Czech research) on the effects of first degree incest on the health of the offspring. Forty percent of the children were born with either autosomal recessive disorders, congenital physical malformations, or severe intellectual deficits. And another 14 percent of them had mild mental disabilities. In short, the odds that a newborn child who is the product of brother-sister or father-daughter incest will suffer an early death, a severe birth defect or some mental deficiently approaches 50 percent.

[Warpy]

28. So give them some genetic counseling

Actually, the chances drop pretty fast in the 30s. They do need to know if any offspring they produce are at risk and take steps to avoid them if that's the case.

Yeah, we can think this is icky doodle, but she had no chance to be his mother, another woman was. There is no power imbalance here, they were just two people who met and were attracted to each other. I'm sure the genetic relationship came as a horrible shock to both of them.

I wouldn't convict them of anything. I'd just suggest they live somewhere no one knows them.

[shrike]

62. No, they knew they were mother and son when they met. It wasn't a "shock" to either of them.

That said, I don't see any reason to imprison them.

[Chemisse]

31. But, knowing that the child could be afflicted with defects, she would presumably avoid that. n/t

[GummyBearz]

18. This is disgusting, but should it result in jail time? No

I think most sea food is disgusting. Do I want to throw people in jail for eating calamari? No.

[uppityperson]

21. If they are both past age of consent, meh.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

25. Ewww! I'd personally stay out of it, but ewww! n/t

[MosheFeingold]

30. I'll play Devil's Advocate

Just because the discussion is boring otherwise, and I'm an old lawyer who likes to argue.

Posit:

The State has an interest in preventing unhealthy offspring because they are often wards of the State and cause the State great expense. The child of a relationship between a mother and her son is at much greater risk for genetic abnormalities. Ergo, the State has a legitimate interest in prohibiting sexual relations between mother and son.

The State also has a great interest in preventing child sexual abuse. While these two persons are adults, a bright line rule prohibiting sexual relations between parent and child assists in both prosecution (by eliminating an element of the charge) and by affirming a social taboo against such relationships. This taboo spans across the Western World, and has been the law (in one form or another) for the better part of 3,000 years in most, if not all, of the Western World.

[Chemisse]

36. On your first point,

This made sense in the days before birth control. It doesn't make sense now.

You could further argue that those in an incestual relationship could choose to have children anyway. I would respond by saying there are many couples who have a high chance of major defects in their offspring (such as older couples and Down Syndrome, or couples who carry the sickle cell gene, just to name two, and there are so many more). Society must pay a high price to medically assist the children with major problems, yet they are not prohibited by law to take their chances and have a baby.

You make a good point about maintaining the taboo against child sexual abuse within families, and it makes sense that as a society we would act to keep that taboo in place. However, people do have civil liberties, and we shouldn't have laws restricting freedoms just because it seems like a bad idea to encourage that behavior.

[uppityperson]

47. Should the state prevent pregnancies over the age of 30 or by people who have "unhealthy" genes or

family history? Those are greater risk of genetic abnormalities also.

The potential for a power span between a 19 and 36 yr old is possible, but unless the state prohibits sex between everyone of those ages, it's discrimintation.

[LoverOfLiberty]

33. Genetic Sexual Attraction is a thing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_sexual_attraction

[Chemisse]

39. That is so interesting!

I wonder if it was adaptive among early humans to mate within the existing tribes, who would have similar features.

And the sexual repulsion we feel toward our siblings is discussed here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westermarck_effect

[snooper2]

49. just because somebody makes something up doesn't mean it's a "thing"

Jeez...and upthread....


Never thought people here would be supportive of incestual relations. I guess we can just blame it on Game of Thrones

[uppityperson]

58. I'm supportive of allowing consenting adults to do what they want sexually in the privacy of

their own homes. And no, I've never read Game of Thrones as the font was too small to read.

I am very much against sexual abuse of any sort, but if all participating adults are consenting, they should be able to do whatever.

[closeupready]

59. +1 - you just keep getting funnier.

[LoverOfLiberty]

68. Hold on there pardner

Just pointing out that it is a known condition is not the same as being supportive of it.

[Akicita]

34. They are entitled to the same legal rights as straights, gays, lesbians, trans, bis and the

questioning. Many people think some of the above are disgusting too and that is their right. It is not their right to deny others equal rights under the law even if they disagree with their lifestyle. We need to add an I to LBGTQ if we are not hypocrites.

LBGTQI

The biggest argument against adult incest is birth defects but I have read that women giving birth after age 40 are more likely to result in birth defects than incest.

And BTW, I personally find adult incest disgusting. The same way I thought gay sex was disgusting 30 years ago.

[snooper2]

50. That would be an interesting court case...Father marries his daughter, one of three children

Father dies-

Children don't get along and go to court over the estate. Does everything get split 33% or does the daughter get bonus points because not only was she offspring, but he was my husband!

[Akicita]

51. Hopefully the father had a will.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

61. I'm surprised that so many here are so supportive

of mother-son incest.

And how many have a touching faith in the total reliability of birth control.

Personally, I do find the incest to be creepy, and I'm all too aware of how often birth control fails.

And in 1980 Judith Rossner published a book called "Emmeline", which is essentially this plot exactly.

[Akicita]

67. I think few if any here are supportive of mother-son incest. Some of us are very supportive of equal

rights under the law for everyone, even for those whose lifestyle we find distasteful or even disgusting. If you support equal rights for LGBTQ but are bigoted against equal rights for everyone, then your arguments for equal rights for LGBTQ that are based on equal treatment under the law are moot.

Once we break through the last barriers of legal bigotry and truly have equality under the law for everyone, our society will be much better off and people will develop a live and let live attitude to lifestyles they find distasteful.

[olddad56]

69. I'm not neccessarily a suppoter of incest, but why is the solution always prison?

regardless of the problem. Destroy their lives to prevent them from "destroying their lives"?

makes no sense at all.