Paris attacks: Almost 800 pump-action shotguns seized by Italian police on way to Belgium, Germany a

[Judi Lynn]

Source: Independent

Paris attacks: Almost 800 pump-action shotguns seized by Italian police on way to Belgium, Germany and Holland

It came as German police investigated a man who sold Kalashnikovs to a buyer in Paris this month
Lizzie Dearden |
@lizziedearden |
5 minutes ago|

A shipment of almost 800 shotguns has been seized on the way from Turkey to Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany amid heightened security checks following the Paris attacks.

Italian police discovered 781 Winchester rifles packed in individual boxes in a lorry that arrived on a ferry in the port city of Trieste on Tuesday.

Footage showed officers climbing into the vehicle and opening branded cardboard boxes to reveal new pump-action shotguns.

. . .

The weapons manufacturer’s website boasts that the guns can “deliver three shots in a half second…the fastest in the world for follow-up shots.”



Read more: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-almost-800-pump-action-shotguns-seized-by-italian-police-on-way-to-belgium-germany-and-a6752106.html

[truthisfreedom]

1. Is this type of weapon legal in Europe?

[Demeter]

2. Does it matter?

[Eleanors38]

4. Laws vary from country to country. Shotguns are probably the least regulated.

These guns are made mainly for the American, Canadian, and some South American markets as the European hunting/shooting sports communities frown on the noisy actions of pumps, and the additional magazine capacity they and semi-autos have. (A lot of it is cultural: Gun-owners prefer hand-made five-figure double barrels to $500 repeaters.) Turkey has long had a gun manufacturing base, and it has been recently upgraded as American manufacturers have out-sourced manufacture due to high labor and machining costs; even Japan's Howa company is now a little too high for Browning. At least all my arms are still made in U.S.A.

Looks like gun-running to get around various prohibitions.

[truthisfreedom]

12. Informative, thanks.

[packman]

3. What the hell is wrong with these European coutries

Where is there NRA equivalent? Someone needs to go over there and tell them that the only way to stop gun violence is to arm every citizen.

Better put the sarcasm smilie before someone reports me:

[Eleanors38]

5. If you favor gun-control, you won't be "reported."

[appal_jack]

9. I wont 'report' you, but I will ask a question.

If you oppose a citizen's right to keep and bear arms (as your sarcasm smilie implies), how do you propose to convince Americans that the solution to gun violence is federal-level gun control laws STRICTER than presently exist in France, Belgium, and Turkey? Because, it seems from your post that you think that those countries' laws are not yet getting the job done. But none of those countries has a Second Amendment or equivalent, do they?

I'm not an NRA member, but I am glad that America has a broader interpretation of freedom than most of Europe.

-app

[packman]

14. Fuck the Second Amendment

time and circumstances and evolution of society makes it a stain on America.

[hack89]

15. The 2A is not the problem. It certainly allows strict gun regulations.

AWBs, registration, stricter background checks, storage requirements, training requirements are all perfectly legally in America.

The problem in America is that there is not strong, deep and wide support for strict gun control. People say they are for it but when pushed, it is very low on their list of priorities.

[Darb]

19. Do you have some sort of alert application?

WTF?

[hack89]

22. As a matter of fact I do. nt

[Darb]

26. Re-calibrate it towards a more useful aim.

And quit helping the lunatics get their hands on guns and killing innocent civilians who just want to live a decent, fruitful life.

[hack89]

27. Getting you spun up is a useful aim

I fully support keeping gun out of the hands of crazies. I support most gun control legislation with few exceptions.

[Darb]

29. Pulease.

Delusion is a strong motivator.

[hack89]

31. Ok. nt

[GGJohn]

32. Ahhh, I see you've attracted the "wrath of Darb".

[hack89]

33. You know it is just more DU performance art.

I just go along with it for the entertainment.

[GGJohn]

34. Oh yeah.

Every time that particular poster engages me, I just engage back for the entertainment value.

[appal_jack]

16. Ah, such erudition, such razor-sharp wit!

Last edited Sun Nov 29, 2015, 12:51 PM - Edit history (1)

With an argument as devastating as "Fuck the Second Amendment," you'll surely have no problem winning US elections with this call for an abrogation of one of our fundamental rights, and gun control stricter than presently exists in all of Europe.



-app

[packman]

17. Hey, thanks for the compliment

it isn't often I get such high praise. And I thought you gun-nuts had no empathy towards anti-gunners.

I got quite a chuckle out of "one of our fundamental rights" - I can just imagine those fuckers blasting away at various people screaming that "IT'S MY FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT"

[hack89]

23. What kind of rights does the Bill of Rights contain? nt

[Darb]

28. In the case of the 2A, it is the right to collectivize your resources in order to

hunt down and either kill, torture, or re-enslave your fellow human beings. Or all three of these, or two, but usually at least two.

Supporting such an immoral pursuit is shameful. You do recognize that, no?

[hack89]

30. Good thing I don't support those bad bad things

I just like to poke holes in pieces of paper. In 35 years of gun ownership I have not harm a single living thing.

[daleo]

6. Could cause mayhem in the wrong hands

Turkey to Europe...makes you wonder.

[FlatBaroque]

7. Turkey sure keeps popping up in a lot of reporting n/t

[lovuian]

8. Reported this the other day interesting comments

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027385668

seems it is a big story after all

[ManiacJoe]

10. So far, all of the various reports are saying

that the problem at the border was a paperwork problem of the otherwise legal transportation of the shotguns.

[ileus]

11. Hopefully these guys will make it to their distributors soon.

That's a pretty big investment that's not making the buyer money tied up in red tape.

[Straw Man]

13. Yup, Turkey.

A shipment of almost 800 shotguns has been seized on the way from Turkey to Belgium, the Netherlands and Germany amid heightened security checks following the Paris attacks.

Italian police discovered 781 Winchester rifles packed in individual boxes in a lorry that arrived on a ferry in the port city of Trieste on Tuesday.

So ... apparently the esteemed journalist doesn't know the difference between a rifle and a shotgun. That isn't exactly what I would call highly specialized firearms lore.

The weapons manufacturer’s website boasts that the guns can “deliver three shots in a half second…the fastest in the world for follow-up shots.”

Uh ... no. Not pump-action shotguns. That is beyond the capabilities of the human body. They're talking about their semi-auto shotguns.

And Turkey? That's where they're made now. Iconic American Winchester firearms are now made in Belgium, Japan, Portugal, and Turkey. Surprise, surprise.

There has been a run on shotguns -- traditionally one of the least-regulated firearms -- in Europe, most likely fueled by fear of immigrants and terrorism.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3291978/Shotguns-virtually-sold-Austria-citizens-rush-buy-arms-amid-fears-massive-influx-migrants-dealers-claim.html

I would guess that Winchester is just trying to keep up with demand.

[Darb]

20. And the blood meets the hands.

Pretty cut and dried you say?

[Straw Man]

24. Eh?

And the blood meets the hands.

Pretty cut and dried you say?

Where did I say that?

[Darb]

25. I think you justified Winchester for polluting Europe

with guns for purely a profit motive. So, for that justification, I say that you have allied yourself with the NRA types and have blood on your hands.



(Not to mention the humper tactic of correcting the minutiae of the gun humper vernacular)

[Straw Man]

35. Wrong.

I think you justified Winchester for polluting Europe

with guns for purely a profit motive. So, for that justification, I say that you have allied yourself with the NRA types and have blood on your hands.

I merely pointed out that this was not a terrorist smuggling operation, but routine commerce.

Is Winchester "polluting Europe"? Should we be shocked that a gun company is selling ... guns? How dare they! Did I mention that Winchester is now Belgian-owned? Who better to pollute Europe than the Europeans themselves?

(Not to mention the humper tactic of correcting the minutiae of the gun humper vernacular)

Begging your pardon, but are you calling me a "gun humper" for knowing the difference between a shotgun and rifle? Does knowing the difference between beer and wine make one an alcoholic?

Is it too much to ask that journalists have even the most basic knowledge of the topics they are writing about? I suppose it is. Ignorance as a badge of ideological purity: where have we heard this before?

[GGJohn]

21. Nothing sinister here,

more of a paperwork snafu, I suspect after the paperwork is put in order, the shipment will be allowed to proceed.