Turkey won't apologize for downing Russian warplane, Erdogan says
Source: CNN
Turkey will not apologize for downing a Russian fighter jet it says violated Turkish airspace near the Syrian border, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said in an exclusive CNN interview Thursday in Ankara.
"I think if there is a party that needs to apologize, it is not us," he said from the Turkish capital. "Those who violated our airspace are the ones who need to apologize. Our pilots and our armed forces, they simply fulfilled their duties, which consisted of responding to ... violations of the rules of engagement. I think this is the essence."
In a meeting with community leaders in Ankara, Erdogan said, "If the same violation occurs today, Turkey has to react the same way."
Read more: http://edition.cnn.com/2015/11/26/middleeast/syria-turkey-russia-warplane-shot-down/
Why would the grand caliph of the neo-ottoman empire apologize. What a jackass, ISIS lover.
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uawchild
(2,208 posts)"Russia's Sergey Lavrov is not one foreign minister known to mince his words. Just earlier today, 24 hours after a Russian plane was brought down by the country whose president three years ago said "a short-term border violation can never be a pretext for an attack", had this to say: "We have serious doubts this was an unintended incident and believe this is a planned provocation" by Turkey.
But even that was tame compared to what Lavrov said to his Turkish counterparty Mevlut Cavusoglu earlier today during a phone call between the two (Lavrov who was supposed to travel to Turkey has since canceled such plans).
As Sputnik transcribes, according to a press release from Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Lavrov pointed out that, "by shooting down a Russian plane on a counter-terrorist mission of the Russian Aerospace Force in Syria, and one that did not violate Turkey’s airspace, the Turkish government has in effect sided with ISIS."
It was in this context when Lavrov added that "Turkey’s actions appear premeditated, planned, and undertaken with a specific objective."
More importantly, Lavrov pointed to Turkey’s role in the propping up the terror network through the oil trade. Per the Russian statement:
"The Russian Minister reminded his counterpart about Turkey’s involvement in the ISIS’ illegal trade in oil, which is transported via the area where the Russian plane was shot down, and about the terrorist infrastructure, arms and munitions depots and control centers that are also located there."
Others reaffirmed Lavrov's stance, such as retired French General Dominique Trinquand, who said that "Turkey is either not fighting ISIL at all or very little, and does not interfere with different types of smuggling that takes place on its border, be it oil, phosphate, cotton or people," he said.
The reason we find this line of questioning fascinating is that just last week in the aftermath of the French terror attack but long before the Turkish downing of the Russian jet, we wrote about "The Most Important Question About ISIS That Nobody Is Asking" in which we asked who is the one "breaching every known law of funding terrorism when buying ISIS crude, almost certainly with the tacit approval by various "western alliance" governments, and why is it that these governments have allowed said middleman to continue funding ISIS for as long as it has?"
Precisely one week later, in even more tragic circumstances, suddenly everyone is asking this question."
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-11-25/meet-man-who-funds-isis-bilal-erdogan-son-turkeys-president
left-of-center2012
(34,195 posts)For the hundreds of thousands of civilians we killed in Iraq?
840high
(17,196 posts)
bemildred
(90,061 posts)French President Francois Hollande and his Russian counterpart Vladimir Putin called for a “broad coalition” to fight Islamic State militants in Syria, even amid fading chances that a wave of terrorist attacks will become the catalyst for a united front involving Russia and the U.S.
“We must build this broad coalition that I have mentioned to hit terrorism,” Hollande said at the start of talks with Putin at the Kremlin on Thursday. “I am in Moscow with you to see how we can act together, to see how we can coordinate to hit this terrorist group and at the same time find a political solution for Syria.” Putin said that Russia has also suffered from terrorism and understands France’s experience. “All of this is forcing us to combine efforts against a common enemy. We are prepared for this cooperation, Mr. President.”
Before leaving Paris, Hollande, who met with U.S. President Barack Obama in Washington on Tuesday, reiterated French demands for the eventual ouster of beleaguered Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, who has been bolstered by a two-month bombing campaign by Russia. His meeting with Putin aims to “draw all the lessons” from the Nov. 13 terrorist attacks in Paris that killed 130 people, Hollande told reporters Thursday.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-26/hollande-putin-call-for-broad-coalition-to-fight-terrorism
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW // Russia on Thursday said its forces had wiped out Syrian rebel groups operating in the area where one of its jets was brought down.
One pilot that parachuted out was later rescued by Russian and Syrian special forces, while a second pilot from the jet and a soldier sent to rescue him were killed by rebels on the ground.
“As soon as our pilot was safe, Russian bombers and artillery of the Syrian government forces carried out massive strikes in the indicated area for an extended period,” military official Igor Konashenkov said. “The terrorists operating in that area and other mysterious groups were destroyed.”
Turkey shot down the Russian jet in northern Syria on Tuesday, alleging that it had crossed over into its air space and sparking a war of words with Moscow.
http://www.thenational.ae/world/middle-east/russia-wipes-out-syrian-rebels-in-area-where-its-jet-was-brought-down
bemildred
(90,061 posts)ISIS militants are cowering before the ferocity of Russia's anger following the downing of one of their jets by Turkish forces, according to a source in war-torn Syria.
Russia yesterday started stepped up its bombing campaign on Syrian rebels in the area close to where one of its fighter jets was shot down by Turkey.
This furious air campaign, joined by American and French warplanes, has ISIS cowering in regions they once strutted around with impunity.
A resident of the ISIS stronghold of Raqqa, who asked to remain anonymous, said: "Many of the fighters, and also the religious police, are starting to get nervous.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/isis-running-scared-russian-french-6907801
bemildred
(90,061 posts)MOSCOW — Russia broke off all military communication with Turkey on Thursday, including a hotline to coordinate airstrikes in Syria — the latest sign of deteriorating relations between the two countries after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane.
"Today, in accordance with the decision made earlier, all communication channels between the Russian Defense Ministry and the Turkish armed forces have been discontinued," Russia's Defense Ministry announced on its website Thursday. "This concerns not just a so-called hotline deployed to exclude possible air incidents during the destruction of terrorist infrastructure targets in Syria."
A representative of Russia's navy stationed in Turkey and working as a liaison between Russia's Black Sea Fleet and Turkey's navy was also recalled, the statement added.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/russia-cuts-all-military-contact-turkey-after-jet-downed-n470076
bemildred
(90,061 posts):20 p.m.
Turkey's government and military leaders have said after a high level meeting, that Turkey and Russia should keep all diplomatic and military channels of communication open following tensions over Turkey's downing of a Russian fighter jet.
In a statement released after a regular High Military Council on Thursday, the Turkish leaders also recommended that the two countries' militaries take all measures possible to avoid new "undesired" incidents on the Turkey-Syria border.
Turkey shot down the Russian Su-24 military jet on Tuesday, insisting it had violated its airspace despite repeated warnings — a claim Russia denies. Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said Wednesday that Moscow has cut all military contacts with Turkey.
Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu presided over the bi-annual council meeting where senior government and military officials review security threats and other military matters.
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/11/26/world/middleeast/ap-syria-the-latest.html?_r=0
Calista241
(5,586 posts)Which was over the freshwater port in Crimea. Since Turkey can close the only accessible waterways leading to that port facility, Russia should probably play nice.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)They are bombing the shit out of the Turkmen right now. And if Erodgan closes the straits, Putin will open them by force, and he will have international law and treaty provisions on his side when he does it. That is an international waterway, just like say the St. Lawrence River or the Baltic Sea. You can't just close it on a whim with no consequences.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)LONDON—Exports of grain are leaving Russia’s Azov Sea for Turkey again after suffering delays in the wake of Turkey’s shooting-down of a Russian warplane, but some traders remain nervy about striking new deals, according to industry sources.
The continuation of shipments highlights the countries’ mutual dependence in international trade. Turkey vies with Egypt to be the largest importer of Russian wheat, while Russia’s boycott of some EU products has left it reliant on imports of fruit and vegetables from Turkey.
Gregory Souris, director of Actava Trading DMCC, a Dubai-based brokerage, said Actava finalized customs documents on Thursday for multiple ships waiting to take grain to Turkey from the port of Yeysk on the Azov Sea. The vessels hadn’t been granted papers earlier this week, he said, adding that the holdups only applied to ships bound for Turkey.
“It seems to be they are now clearing the vessels,” he said.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russia-grain-exports-to-turkey-resume-at-key-ports-1448562260
LS_Editor
(893 posts)Erdoğan is a dictator, and he is definitely biting on something that is too big to chew here. I rather like this satirical version of him as an explanation of what happened...
+
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)hill2016
(1,772 posts)NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)hill2016
(1,772 posts)it was no longer defending its territorial integrity.
By firing a missile into Syrian territory, it violated Syrian sovereignty.
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)let's give an analogy.
Group of armed Mexican marines cross the border briefly into the US. They turn around immediately when challenged by US border police. The incursion lasts < 20 seconds. US border police then shoot the Mexican marines when they are back on Mexican soil.
Sure the Mexican marines should not have crossed the border. But do the US border police have the right to shoot the Mexican marines on Mexican soil?
NobodyHere
(2,810 posts)What do you think the appropriate action for Turkey was?
hill2016
(1,772 posts)But it could have started off by warning shots if it was clear that the Russian plane was headed deeper into Turkish territory. There are standard intercept protocols that are escalated. Nobody starts off by shooting a missile.
In this case if you look at the radar track provided by Turkey it was clear that
(1) the planes were headed out of Turkish airspace
(2) the incursion was very brief, a matter of seconds
(3) the planes were shot down over Syrian territory, which means that Turkey violated Syrian sovereignty (their missile)
I noticed you didn't answer my question on the Mexican marines?
uawchild
(2,208 posts)Xithras summed it up nicely in a previous post:
"International rules of engagement outside of war are pretty clear, and Turkey violated them.
When a foreign jet enters your airspace without permission, you warn it off first. If it ignores the warning and appears to be an imminent threat to the nation (i.e., it's about to bomb you), you can shoot it down. If it does not appear to be an immediate threat, you intercept it and try to force it to change its heading or land. If it fails to respond to an interception, THEN you can shoot it down.
These are the rules of interception used by NATO throughout the Cold War, and are the standard rules of interception used by nations around the world. Intruding jets are ONLY shot down if they pose an immediate military threat, or if they ignore interception attempts and continue to venture deeper into your territory. Neither of those were the case.
Shooting an aircraft down immediately, as a few clueless people here seem to be trying to justify, is only allowable when you're at war. By shooting down the aircraft this way, Turkey just informed Russia that they're responding to Russia as if they are in a state of war with Russia."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1014&pid=1272484
ancianita
(36,054 posts)How the EFEE (Erdogan Family Evil Empire) work is unbelievable. The U.S. and Europe can never take their eyes off Turkey. What they're playing right now has been in the works for years.
I highly recommend Demeter's post from zerohedge in 'Good Reads.'
Unfuckingbelievable.
Oneironaut
(5,494 posts)the more complicit we are. Turkey is knee-deep in corruption. ISIS oil is moving freely across their borders. They're ISIS bootlickers through and through, the U.S. is helping them.
