Turkey's Downing of Jet a 'Planned Provocation': Russia's Lavrov

[newthinking]

Source: NBC News


Turkey's Downing of Jet a 'Planned Provocation': Russia's Lavrov

by F. Brinley Bruton


Russia's foreign minister called the shooting down of one of its warplanes a "planned provocation" Wednesday.

Sergei Lavrov added that Moscow had no intention "to go to war with Turkey" and said that "our attitude to the Turkish people hasn't changed."

However, he warned that Moscow would reassess its relations with Ankara after the incident. "We have questions about the Turkish leadership," Lavrov said.



Read more: http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/turkeys-downing-jet-planned-provocation-russias-lavrov-n469396

[hobbit709]

1. I knew it was only a matter of time before the chorus chimed in here.

[watoos]

2. Last night Rachel had Richard Engle on

he is one person whose opinion that I respect. Guess what his opinion was? Turkey had this planned for some time now. The jet was no threat to Turkey. Turkey was getting protests because Russia was bombing the Turkmen in Syria so Turkey needed to send a message to Putin, message sent, now Putin has the ball.

[bemildred]

3. It was kind of obvious, they were working up to it for about a week.

I would be surprised if the Russians were surprised.

[bemildred]

4. Downing of Russian jet part of Turkey's 'strange game' in Syria

---

Russia joined the war in September with the express purpose of supporting Syrian President Basher al-Assad, while Turkey has been bolstering an array of rebel groups in the hopes that they can unseat the Syrian dictator.

Turkey has invested heavily in factions such as the Free Syrian Army, "groups that are now facing Russian airstrikes and are seeing the chances of an Assad-free Syria gone, or diminishing, at the very least," says Alaaldin.

In a White House press conference on Tuesday, U.S. President Barack Obama said the downing of the jet was proof of how Russia's involvement was further complicating an already complex and bloody war.

But Lamrani says the incident is also evidence of Turkey's concern about increasingly dangerous air traffic in its backyard — particularly from Russia, which has been conducting airstrikes against rebel groups like the Free Syrian Army near the Turkish border.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/turkey-military-plane-russia-1.3332436?cmp=rss

[bemildred]

5. Why Did Turkey Dare Shoot Down a Russian Plane? The Proxy War in Syria

The Turkish government decision to down a Russian jet operating in the north of the Syrian province of Latakia is breathtaking in its boldness. Russia may no longer be a superpower, but it is a nuclear-armed great power. The newly elected Justice and Development Party (AKP) government of Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu and his mentor President Tayyip Erdogan in Turkey can rule without the help of any other party in parliament, and seems determined to double down on its policy of intervening in Syria.

The Davutoglu government risks substantial economic harm. Russian tourism has boosted the Turkish economy, and Russia was planning an important gas pipeline through Turkey as well as the building for Ankara of a nuclear power reactor. All those activities have just been cancelled, and tour operators in Russia are looking for other tourist markets after pressure from the Putin government. Russia is attributing the attack to an attempt by Turkish officials to protect gasoline smuggling routes from Daesh (ISIL, ISIS) to Turkey, but the geography of the shoot-down tells against this interpretation. This was near al-Qaeda territory in the northwest, not Daesh territory in the northeast, and the issue is arms smuggling, not oil smuggling.

Turkey has backed a range of Muslim fundamentalist groups in northern Syria in hopes of eventually overthrowing the Baath government of Bashar al-Assad. Turkey is also afraid of the leftist Kurds of northern Syria, which are accused of attempting to ethnically cleanse Arab and Turkmen villages that stand in the way of their establishing land bridges between the three major Kurdish cantons of northern Syria. The People’s Protection Unites (YPG) or leftist Kurdish militias have already linked two of these cantons, defeating Daesh in order to do so. The third, Afrin, is separated from Kobane by a set of Arab and Turkmen villages north of Aleppo.

The blue territory on the map shows Turkmen villages in Syria. Also home of the proposed security zone pic.twitter.com/qg1k6SG8t1
— Rag?p Soylu (@ragipsoylu) July 26, 2015

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/why_did_turkey_dare_shoot_down_a_russian_plane_proxy_war_syria_20151125

[bemildred]

6. Russia wants anti-ISIL alliance with US, France and even Turkey: Diplomat

Russia would be prepared to "create a joint staff" to fight the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) in which Moscow would work with France, the United States and even Turkey, the Russian ambassador to France said on Nov. 25.

"We are prepared to... plan strikes on Daesh [ISIL] positions together and create a joint staff with France, the US, with all the countries who want to be in this coalition," said Alexander Orlov.

He told Europe 1 radio that despite rising tensions after Turkey downed a Russian military jet on Nov. 24, "if the Turks want to be in (the joint staff) as well, they are welcome".

Speaking following talks at the White House between French President Francois Hollande and Barack Obama on Nov. 24, the US president said it would be "enormously helpful" if Russia would work with the US and others to bring about an end to the war in Syria.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia-wants-anti-isil-alliance-with-us-france-and-even-turkey-diplomat-.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91637&NewsCatID=352

[bemildred]

7. Trigger Happy: Will Turkey’s Downing of Russian Jet Backfire on NATO?

Turkey must have been eager to shoot down a Russian aircraft. Even going by the Turkish account of what happened, as illustrated by a Turkish map of the route of the Russian plane, it would only briefly have been in Turkish airspace as it crossed a piece of Turkish territory that projects into Syria.

Why would Turkey do this? Probably because Ankara has become increasingly furious, since Russian air strikes started in Syria on 30 September, that Russian jets were routinely invading its airspace. The Turkish government also knows that its policy since 2011 of getting rid of President Bashar al-Assad has failed and that it has a diminishing influence in events in Syria as Russia, the US, France and possibly, in the near future, Britain increase their military involvement in Syria.

Specific events on the 550 mile-long Syrian-Kurdish role may also have played a role. This year Turkey has seen the Syrian Kurds, whom it denounces as terrorists as bad as Isis, take control of half of the frontier and threaten to move west of the Euphrates. More recently, Syrian army units backed by Russian air strikes have been attacking towards the other end of the border near where the Russian plane came down and the pilots were killed.

Nato countries will give some rhetorical support to Turkey as a Nato member, but many will not be dismissive in private of President Vladimir Putin’s angry accusation that Turkey is the accomplice of terrorists. Turkey’s support for the Syrian armed opposition, including extreme groups like Jabhat al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham, has been notorious over the last three years. Its relations with Isis are murky, but it has been credibly accused of allowing the self-declared Islamic State to sell oil through Turkey.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/11/25/trigger-happy-will-turkeys-downing-of-russian-jet-backfire-on-nato/

[bemildred]

8. Ankara defends ISIS, Turkish officials have financial interest in oil trade with group - Russian PM

Some Turkish officials have ‘direct financial interest’ in the oil trade with the terrorist group Islamic State, Russian PM Dmitry Medvedev said as he detailed possible Russian retaliation to Turkey’s downing of a Russian warplane in Syria on Tuesday.

“Turkey’s actions are de facto protection of Islamic State,” Medvedev said, calling the group formerly known as ISIS by its new name. “This is no surprise, considering the information we have about direct financial interest of some Turkish officials relating to the supply of oil products refined by plants controlled by ISIS.”

“The reckless and criminal actions of the Turkish authorities… have caused a dangerous escalation of relations between Russia and NATO, which cannot be justified by any interest, including protection of state borders,” Medvedev said.

According to Medvedev, Russia is considering canceling several important projects with Turkey and barring Turkish companies from the Russian market. Russia has already recommended its citizens not to go Turkey citing terrorist threats, which have resulted in several tourist operators withdrawing tours to Turkey from the market.

http://www.newtimes.co.rw/section/article/2015-11-25/194727/

[bemildred]

9. Russia releases radar analysis of downed jet

Russian Defense Ministry has released its own radar analysis of the Russian jet downed by Turkish warplanes near Syria on Nov. 24, following the Turkish Army’s analysis a day earlier.

“Objective monitoring data confirmed that the Turkish warplane did not make any attempt to establish communication or visual contact with the Russian bomber. The missile hit the SU-24M aircraft over the territory of Syria. The bomber’s crash place is on the territory of Syria four kilometers away from the border. The SU-24M crew managed to eject. According to the preliminary data, [gun] fire from the ground killed one of the pilots,” the Chief of the Main Operational Directorate of the General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces Lt.Gen. Sergei Rudskoy said in a speech.



http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russia-releases-radar-analysis-of-downed-jet.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91640&NewsCatID=352

[bemildred]

10. Turkish proposal to create buffer zone in northern Syria may try to protect terrorist infrastructure

The Turkish proposal to create a buffer zone in the area of compact residence of Syrian Turkmen in northern Syria may derive from Ankara's wish to protect local terrorist infrastructures, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

"According to the latest information, the area which our Turkish colleagues deem to be populated by Syrian Turkmen not only accommodates several hundreds or thousands of militants - citizens of the Russian Federation, as the [Russian] president said yesterday, who present a direct threat to our security, security of our people but also, according to the available information, that area accommodates infrastructures of the militants, including arms and ammo depots, command centers, and logistics centers," he said at a press conference in Moscow.

"I asked [the Turkish foreign minister] whether such attention of Turkey to that area, including the constant propositions to create a buffer zone in that territory, was actually a wish to protect those infrastructures and to prevent their destruction. I was not given an answer to that question either," Lavrov said.

http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/general/306690.html

[polly7]

11. Thanks for the thread, newthinking.

RIP to the pilot and rescue worker killed.

Thank you bemildred for all your info.

[bemildred]

12. My pleasure. nt

[daleo]

14. Thanks, bemildred

Your stuff always adds a lot - more light than heat.

[bemildred]

15. Hey, we're still here, aren't we?

I find this much more interesting than TV, and it's real.

[bemildred]

13. Russia backs proposal to close Turkish-Syrian border: Lavrov

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov has addressed journalists following the downing of the Russian Su-24 jet by an air-to-air missile launched from a Turkish F-16, Sputnik News reports.

The Russian minister held a phone conversation with his Turkish counterpart earlier in the day.

“Moscow is not avoiding contacts with Ankara — my phone conversation with the Turkish FM is a proof,” Lavrov said.

Turkey’s foreign minister expressed his sincere condolences to Sergei Lavrov, the Russian Foreign Minister said. But the Turkish minister tried to excuse the incident, Lavrov added.

http://www.armradio.am/en/2015/11/25/russia-backs-proposal-to-close-turkish-syrian-border-lavrov/

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. After Ukraine, nobody outside Russia & its paid propagandists believe anything they have to say.

Russia, Putin Held in Low Regard around the World
Russia's image trails U.S. across all Regions



By contrast:

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Yes, Turkey planned it. Moreover, Putin probably knew it was planned and sent the pilots anyway

Knowing they would be shot down.

For his own purposes.

Fun and games.

[LanternWaste]

18. Were my air force incompetent enough to consistently overfly other nation's airspace's...

Were my air force incompetent enough to consistently overfly other nation's airspace's during a time of heightened tension after being warned numerous times to cease and desist doing so, I'd make a point to blame the other guy, too.

Looking forward to your creative speculations pretending to be objectively informed opinion.

[Xolodno]

19. Planned....I dunno....

Maybe they planned this for a major incursion into their airspace, but a minor one that was 17 seconds. Someone in the Turkish military got trigger happy.

Turkish military is probably a bit unhinged. Assad is going to at least stick around for awhile and walk out unscathed, they aren't going to get the buffer zone which protects their proxies in the war (and instead will be pressured to close the border), Syria will still be pro Russia and Shia, etc.

If they wanted to send a message, I'm sure Putin got it, but it's certainly not going to give them the results they wanted.

[bemildred]

20. Russian jet incident planned, Turkish opposition member says

The Nov. 24 downing of a Russian fighter jet that violated Turkey’s border with Syria by the Turkish military was planned, according to a senior figure from the Peoples’ Democratic Party (HDP).

“It is seen that the downing of the Russian jet was decided and planned earlier, and it was just implemented yesterday,” said İdris Baluken, the opposition party’s deputy chair, on Nov. 25.

“What we saw yesterday is a scene from a planned policy,” he said.

The AKP [Justice and Development Party] has shown in its insistent practices that it is a part of the war in Syria,” he said.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/russian-jet-incident-planned-turkish-opposition-member-says.aspx?pageID=238&nID=91678&NewsCatID=338