Jordan Executes Prisoners After Killing of Pilot by ISIS.

[elleng]

Source: NYTimes

When relatives learned Tuesday night that the Islamic State had released a video showing the death of a Jordanian fighter pilot, First Lt. Moaz al-Kasasbeh, they tried to keep it from his mother, Issaf, and his wife, Anwar. They switched off the television and tried to wrest a smartphone from his wife’s hand, but she had already seen a mobile news bulletin.

Married only six months, Anwar ran crying into the street, calling her husband’s name and saying, “Please God, let it not be true.” Issaf fell to the floor screaming, pulled her head scarf off and started tearing at her hair.

That was before they knew how he had been killed. No one dared let them know right away that Lieutenant Kasasbeh’s tormentors had apparently burned him alive inside a cage, a killing that was soon described as the most brutal in the group’s bloody history.

Jordan responded rapidly, executing Sajida al-Rishawi, a convicted suicide bomber, and Ziad al-Karbouli, a top lieutenant of Al Qaeda in Iraq, before dawn on Wednesday, according to the official news agency Petra.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/04/world/middleeast/isis-said-to-burn-captive-jordanian-pilot-to-death-in-new-video.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

[Telcontar]

1. I will try contain my apathy

Hopefully Jordan is just warming up

[George II]

2. "Thou shalt not kill", but I sadly I'm ashamed that I have NO empathy for those terrorists.

[840high]

3. Jordan - yeah!! Good balls.

[samsingh]

45. agreed

[onecaliberal]

4. They should dispose of all al queda prisoners.

They should also be cremated so they cannot be buried in the Muslim tradition either.

[bluestateguy]

6. While I do oppose the death penalty

I prioritize my battles.

Don't expect to see me marching in the street to protest their executions.

[avebury]

9. An eye for an eye will leave the world blind.

What happened to the Jordanian pilot is horrific and all my sympathy goes to his family. But what Jordan did in executing the two "terrorists" will not change the behavior of ISIS and will have the net effect of continuing the escalation of violence. To be truly against the death penalty one cannot pick and choose when to oppose it and when to bow down to public pressure to accommodate it.

[qazplm]

31. I'm anti DP

but like the poster you responded to, I'm sorry I'm not going to spend a lot of empathy points on this one.

NOTHING will change the behavior of ISIS...nothing. Not diplomacy, not threats, nothing.

[avebury]

38. Actually the Jordanian action may change ISIS -

and make them even far worse. If you thought that they were brutal before, what makes you think that they won't be going out and upping the hostage count (and therefore the body count). The Jordanians did the equivalent of waving a flag in front of a bull. The Jordanian reaction is an emotional one and not geared towards considering the consequences. ISIS has already moved from beheadings to burning prisoner alive. We may not have seen the full extent of their brutality yet.

[riversedge]

42. I have to agree. As much as Jordon was hurt-angered--whatever

emotion you want to insert---Jordon's 'eye for eye' revenge will not be taken lightly by ISIS. Yet, most the Mideast adheres to this eye for an eye. In some ways--all nations/humans do--we just are not so brutal. I fear Isis will show worse brutality in the near future. I was literally shaken yesterday when I hear of the killing by Issa. I can not imagine what the family is feeling---and there need for payback.

[samsingh]

50. Jordan did the right thing

sympathy does nothing for the family.

there should be some meaning to the poor man's life and making isis pay for their barbarism will reduce their numbers.

not doing this emboldens them.


isis is a monstrocity that i believe is bigger and more dangerous that we are prepared to accept. they have a global plan and they are executing it.

[BigDemVoter]

67. Yeah, you are right. . . .

I find myself leaning toward the violent solution out of shock, but when I truly think about it, it will only promote more (and worse) violence. . .

One cannot simply pick and choose when to be anti-death penalty. I've always claimed to be against the death penalty under any circumstance, and I have to put my money where my mouth is even in cases where the perpetrators have committed atrocities.

[samsingh]

46. good

[CRF450]

8. Say what?!

Finally somebody does something right! I hate to admit it as a liberal, but after seeing the atrocities that ISIS has committed and will continue to do in the future, it's time. Examples need to be made even, though that won't lessen their killings.

[JPZenger]

10. This is Jordan's Pearl Harbor

The Jordanian people were divided about the military conflict with ISIS. Some people said "ISIS never attacked us." The government was willing to trade this attempted suicide bomber for the pilot, but hesitated because ISIS wouldn't provide proof that the pilot was still alive. Now the Jordanian people are united against ISIS. Jordan is an important strategic neighbor in this conflict.

[elleng]

13. Good analysis.

Thanks

[Spitfire of ATJ]

18. This is why ISIL is NOT a threat....

I would be worried if the people of the Middle East were,...oh,...what's the term? "greeting them as liberators" but they're NOT. They are universally DESPISED throughout the entire region.

And, YES. Those pictures of McCain with their leaders has made the rounds which has helped the people of the Middle East hate them even more.

[samsingh]

53. on the contrary - i think isis is a huge threat

and their message is being heard in every country in the world - often by well to do youth, who are willing to committ atrocious murder for the message.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

61. That's what the 1% says about "Occupy".

[samsingh]

63. i don't remember 'occupy' killing hostages.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

66. They did worse! They made people doubt their betters!

[tblue37]

36. As it turned out, ISIS had already killed the pilot a month ago. They never were

negotiating in good faith--which isn't really surprising, considering how brutal and bizarre their actions are.

[VanillaRhapsody]

11. she helped kill 60 people so.....

I doubt she expected anything less....

[Daemonaquila]

12. It would be hypocritical to protest the death penalty in this case.

Not when I hope that every last ISIS member gets scragged in the field with overwhelming firepower.

[hrmjustin]

14. I am against the death penalty in all cases.

[NutmegYankee]

16. While I understand and respect your viewpoint -

I think this act is related to an old rule of warfare regarding prisoners. Prior to the highly detailed process in the Geneva Conventions, the rules with prisoners of war was "if you don't kill our POWs, we won't kill yours". If one side violated this, the other was compelled to execute prisoners in retaliation to keep the "rule" in effect. Since ISIS had tied the release of the pilot to the release of a Jordanian held prisoner, and then brutally executed the pilot, the death of the Jordanian held prisoner is expected per this older rule.

I realize ISIS probably won't care and had in fact already murdered the pilot weeks before, but this was how this played out for centuries.

[hrmjustin]

17. Yes this is true and they are legally justified but... n/t.

[tblue37]

37. Actually, everything I have read says that ISIS did not promise to release the pilot in

return for the ISIS prisoners in Jordan. The deal they offered (though it was not offered in good faith after all) was to release Goto (the Japanese journalist) and to refrain from harming the Jordanian pilot they held--but not to release him, though.

[samsingh]

54. i don't agree with the anti death penalty viewpoint

i think this sends a message to an organization that has beheaded tens of thousands and keep increasing the anti.

keeping them alive in prison continues to embolden them to try for hostage exchange. this sends a clear message to individuals in isis that they will die and some will be frightened by that. the others that are not will be killed.

[Violet_Crumble]

40. Me too...

But when it comes to this one, this is how I feel



It'd be very different if they'd executed someone totally unrelated to them, but ISIS signed her swifter death warrant by demanding their 'sister' be released and not thinking Jordan would call their bluff. The reaction of one of my friends who's even more LW than me when we heard this arvo that Jordan had gone ahead with the execution as they threatened they would was good on Jordan for the Fuck You they gave ISIS. And my view is that the Jordanian government shouldn't have to cater to what any of us think. It's Jordanians, and I doubt any are grieving the death of that woman. ISIS screwed up with this one. While they wouldn't care about public opinion in countries like Japan, the US and the UK, I doubt they wanted to unite the population of Jordan, who went from being split on support of the airstrikes or ISIS not being their problem and staying out of it to now being united on ISIS has to go...

Now it's done I hope they reinstate their previous moratorium on the death penalty and get round to abolishing it.

[countmyvote4real]

34. While I disagree, I also agree with at least one of your points.

Disagree: I do not hope that she suffered the lingering burning of her flesh. I hope it was quick and swift for her already due process death penalty sentence. And yet, I wish there was a way out of this crazy cycle.

Agree: I do not fault the Jordanians. Of any country in the ME, they have stepped to the front by absorbing so many Syrian (and Iraqi) refugees. I hope their united outrage to this horror will consider how best to abolish IS (or whatever their gangster label.)

We are all Moaz and Jordan.

[duhneece]

41. We are all Moaz and Jordan

This made me cry...and it's not even 7 AM here in NM.
Thank you.

[2naSalit]

19. *sigh*

Though I don't completely oppose this move by Jordan, I have no doubt that it will now codify region-wide war that is what all the global warmongers had hoped for.

And so it begins. ("it" being the end of the age of humanity.)

[Takashi Zara]

20. POW executions are awesome when the "right" people do them!

The hypocrisy and well-nurtured and ever obedient bloodlust is just cute.

[Ed Suspicious]

21. It really is troubling to me, this zeal to fight barbarism with barbarism.

[geek tragedy]

22. These were not POWs, they were criminals and terrorists convicted and sentenced nt

[840high]

72. +1

[leftynyc]

47. There are only POW's in a war

Are you admitting that there is indeed a war on terror? She was no POW - just a repulsive killer responsible for over 60 deaths. Unless they prolonged her suffering, she got off easy.

[AtheistCrusader]

23. Fixes nothing.

The death penalty is not useful.

And in this case, it isn't even 'not useful', it's counter-productive, because ISIS has a use for those prisoners, even in death.

This will not make ISIS pack up its toys and go home.

[Leontius]

26. Then give us all your solution to this.

[countmyvote4real]

28. +1

Thank you. Like you, I wait for that magical solution to these twisted gangsters disguised as something holy.

[AtheistCrusader]

58. Upholding rule of law would be one way.

Execution on demand to make a political point is not rule of law. I'm against the death penalty, but I wouldn't have said anything if they'd been scheduled to be executed, normally, per Jordanian law already.

They weren't, they were executed to send a message to a total externality to the cases against those prisoners.
I don't think ISIS received the message Jordan intended to send.

[AtheistCrusader]

57. Do you know how we finally won over the locals in Iraq and turned the war?

By not being barbarians. The insurgents just couldn't help not beheading the locals for allowing girls to go to school, and for practicing the wrong variant of islam, and a dozen other reasons. We took a step back and stopped hitting entire cities with the biggest hammer we could lift. The people made a choice, along the lines of 'lesser of two evils', and started informing on the insurgents, and stopped recruiting into their ranks.*

It's the only thing that seems to have worked in any of these conflicts.

There's one universal constant I've found; people crave order and civilization. A safe place to live, to raise children. ISIS does not represent these things.

Behaving like ISIS doesn't give people a better choice. You can't destroy ISIS by behaving like them. You just enter into a feedback loop.

(*Not saying the war was the right thing in the first place, it wasn't, just describing the eventual successful exit strategy.)

[McCamy Taylor]

24. Not the way to win hearts and minds of fellow Muslims.

[herding cats]

27. I see it the same.

ISIL just sees this as another tool to exploit some more wavering fundamentalist to their cause. If they had any reaction to these deaths it was not remorse, but a vile calculated sort of pleasure.

[leftynyc]

49. It seems to have brought together

the Jordanians who had been split on the issue of arming rebels or isis. No split now.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

25. That is the "earth-shaking" response Jordan promised...two prisoners executed? nt

[countmyvote4real]

29. What then would work for you?

[No Vested Interest]

33. We don't know that these hangings are the end

of it.
More is possible, on Jordan's own timetable.

[Rhinodawg]

30. Jordanian people have been protesting past few days..

against ISIS.

That's the funny thing about terrorism. Sooner or later, it's coming for you.

[elleng]

32. Right.

[TwilightGardener]

35. Well, gotta do what you gotta do.

No, it doesn't solve anything, and ISIS probably doesn't give a shit which of Jordan's prisoners were executed, or how. That guy was probably killed weeks ago, and the "prisoner exchange" was just a cruel hoax. But I understand their need for vengeance.

[Martin Eden]

39. Brutality and Revenge

That's what I see in this story, rather than justice.

[riversedge]

43. What is the reward for women who become martyrs?? Is there something??..

Sorry if this is a distraction or off topic but I have wondered about it. Supposedly the men get 7 virgins in their heaven (sorry, but I do not know all of the rewards). I am wondering if the women get any rewards.

[leftynyc]

51. Your question made me curious

so I googled and came up with this:

If a woman is killed as a martyr for the sake of Allaah, how does the hadeeth “The shaheed will be married to seventy-two hoor al-‘iyn” apply to her?
Praise be to Allaah.

We put this question to Shaykh ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Jibreen, may Allaah preserve him, who answered as follows:

This number is only for men. A woman will have only one husband in Paradise, and she will be satisfied with him and will not need any more than that.

The Muslim woman – who is not influenced by the claims of those who propagate permissiveness and knows that she is not like men in her make-up and nature, because Allaah has made her like that – does not object to the rulings of Allaah or feel angry. Rather she accepts what Allaah has decreed for her. Her sound nature tells her that she cannot live with more than one man at a time. So long as she has entered Paradise, she will have all that she desires, so she should not dispute now about the delights and rewards that her Lord has chosen for her, for your Lord does not treat anyone unjustly. If she is one of the people of Paradise, then she is included, like men, in the words of Allaah (interpretation of the meaning):

http://islamqa.info/en/11419

[riversedge]

55. Well, nothing like a man telling a women she will be satisfied with one man while

her husband satisfies himself with more women. Praise be!!



thanks, Enough said


on edit: Like Catholicism and Judaism-the other major religions-women take second place. Nothing new.

[Trajan]

44. ANTI Death Penalty

In all cases ...

Bar none ...

[samsingh]

52. go talk to isis

[Trajan]

59. What does that mean: go talk to isis?

They are criminals ? ... Being them to justice ...

They are soldiers? ... Make war against them ...

Whatever you do, do NOT expect us to accept that killing is good ... it isn't ... don't dare do it in my name, so expect me to criticise you for it ...

[Telcontar]

60. Pretty sure your name never came up

[Trajan]

62. You missed it ...

My name was in the ballot I cast ...

[samsingh]

64. it means that such thought are fine in the comfort of our homes

someone, when someone is on the receiving end, I think sentiment changes.

whoever said 'killing is good'. fighting back is necessary and stops innocent people from getting killed.

I remember one poster said: "we should educate them" instead of stopping their slaughter of Kurds stuck on a mountain by military action.

While we talk about executing 2 people, they are killing by the tens of thousands. I don't accept that as 'good'.

[Trajan]

69. I think that ISIS needs to be fought on the battlefield

And brought to justice .. to account for their heinous atrocities and mass murders ...

However, I don't think that pulling a few of their lower level minions out of a jail cell, and executing them : I don't believe THAT is justice ... it is vengeance .. it is revenge, and that does nothing to bring justice to the perpetrators ...

It only makes them vengeance killers ... I have a problem with that ...

[Yo_Mama]

71. These were people who had been sentenced to death for a 2005 terrorist attack on hotels w/ 60 dead.

They did not technically belong to The Islamic Snuff Film Empire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_Amman_bombings

The woman who was executed had been sentenced to death long ago for this:

At the Radisson SAS Hotel (now known as the "Landmark Hotel&quot , two suicide bombers (a husband and wife team—Ali Hussein Ali al-Shamari and Sajida Mubarak Atrous al-Rishawi)—entered the Philadelphia Ballroom, where Ashraf Akhras and his bride, Nadia Al-Alami, were celebrating their wedding with around 900 Jordanian and Palestinian guests. Sajida al-Rishawi was unable to detonate her belt. Her husband Ali al-Shamari, apparently admonished her and told her to get out of the room. As she was leaving, the lights went out in the ballroom, Ali jumped onto a dining-room table and detonated himself. Among the 38 people killed in the explosion were the fathers of the bride and groom.

The hotel bombings in Jordan changed the attitudes of Jordanians towards radicals. The latest exercise in coercive communication will change it further, as in "We want them dead."

[samsingh]

74. ok

[christx30]

65. so what do you do in this situation?

ISIS needed these people for some reason. "John Smith from accounting is needed because he knows how to calculate sales taxes from Texas..." Ect.
So they demand their people in exchange for our people. If they kill our people, their's have to die too. Maybe seeing their people dying might inspire them to find other ways to resolve conflicts. "You respect our lives, we'll respect yours." Or at the very least deny them the people they need. This is a war. This isn't about the law. Those people are weapons in IS's war against their neighbors. They could have commanded the death of hundreds of people. The same thing needs to happen over and over until IS either is forced to surrender, or they are defeated to the last person.

[bklyncowgirl]

48. I expect they will be hailed as martyrs by Isis.

I also don't see where the Jordanians had any other choice.

If there's any good to come out of this it will be that moderate Sunnis who have been on the fence about Isis will decide that if these barbarians get their beloved Caliphate that this is what anyone who is not with them a hundred percent in their vision of an Islamic utopia will have to face.

[davidthegnome]

56. Hmm.

For some time now, I have felt that ISIS needs to be destroyed, one way or another. Not because they're radical, or fanatic, or zealous, not because of their religion. It is their absolute hatred and utter lack of mercy for their victims. It goes well beyond poisonous, or dangerous - these are people, who, in all likelihood, would gladly launch nuclear weapons in the name of their religion - and out of hatred for those who are not as they are.

However... using this enemy's tools to defeat them is not something that is going to work, in my humble opinion. Anger, retribution, vengeance, the slaying of people both unarmed and incapable of defending themselves. While their crimes may have been great - and while they may have certainly deserved execution... the timing and the reason for the immediate action, I believe, will prove to be very contrary to what we hope to accomplish.

I feel that there are two ways to effectively destroy ISIS. One is to utterly exterminate - to kill every member and every suspected member. I do not think public opinion will support this in America, let alone in the middle east, or among many of our allies.

The other way, is to let the world see them as they really are - without ourselves becoming monsters to rival them. Time - and the humanity of people, regardless of race or religion... that is what I believe will eventually bring ISIS to it's knees. Military action will likely be necessary, but enlightenment, and our humanity towards each other, is what will win the day.

The best way to destroy our enemies isn't by acting as they do, or by becoming worse. The best way is, ultimately, to make them our friends. Can we do this with ISIS? Probably not. Through humanitarian effort though, through hard work and through our own compassion to those in need in the middle east, I believe we can turn the tide so heavily against them that they will become utterly ineffective - and eventually fade away.

Everything is too global now. Firepower alone will not be enough to defeat this enemy. Our empathy, compassion, and mercy for each other, will be far more effective.

Just my opinion.

[Teutonic Samuel]

68. Can't Really Blame Them

Though I'm certain some will.

[roamer65]

70. All Daesh militants need to know what will happen to them.

Start executing them after capture. Drop leaflets on them telling them it will happen.

[hugo_from_TN]

73. Hasta la vista, baby.

Good riddance.