Guns, no guns, that's not the problem, our society is the problem.

[MadHound]

Whether this guy would have had access to guns or not, that is not where the fault lies with this shooting. The fault lies with the individual who committed this crime, and with our society.

Our society has turned into a giant behavioral sink. The number of people, the stresses that are present and increasing in our society, all have a direct impact upon how people react. Increase the stress, and you have people reacting in odd, bizarre, and violent ways.

I'm not trying to excuse the shooter, frankly I hope that he receives life in prison for his crimes. What I am trying to point out that if we want to stop having these mass shootings, we need to cure what is wrong with our society. End poverty, extend compassion, develop a society that doesn't drive people into rage and despair.

If we don't, these incidents will continue. It doesn't matter if we seize all the guns in the country, if we don't address the root problems of our dysfunctional society, these incidents will continue just using bombs instead of guns. We need to fix our society, and once we do that, we will see these incidents stop.

[earthside]

1. It is our declining society.

We do not have to be so violent as a culture ... no matter how many guns we have.

But let's be honest -- there is a glorification of killing everywhere you look, from movies to really, really awful video games, to our popular music and literature, to our language and, yes, I'll say it, to the way especially young folks are dressing and 'decorating' themselves these days.

We don't need censorship, but we do need some self-restraint and a return to a modicum of civility and courtesy.

Of course, economic stress and a trillion dollars annually of war/security/intelligence/defense spending also adds to the anxiety that can instigate violence.

[MadHound]

7. You know, I was right there with you, until you started going on about

How "young folks are dressing". Sorry, but youth fashion has nothing to do with this, and to say that it does is simply exhibiting ignorance and a "get off my lawn" mentality.

Furthermore, economic stress is not an afterthought, as you placed it in your post. It is certainly more relevant to the problem than today's fashions.

[earthside]

27. I disagree.

I just finished reading a very good book published in 1998 entitled "Leo Strauss and the American Right".

It is a good critique of the neo-conservative philosophy that dominates the Repuglican Party.

Part of the authors analysis is a review about liberalism and what it means.

Sadly, even liberals get trapped into believing that 'liberalism' is in large part about permissiveness, libertinism, indulgence, etc.

That is wrong. Indeed, the kind of freedom that liberals advocate in principle depends upon standards of civility -- how else are we to communicate respectfully with one another?

Face it, liberals get into trouble especially politically when we act like we can't ever have any cultural benchmarks. It is not youth fashion per se, but what it tends to indicate about the state of our culture.

In my opinion, neck tattoos, excessive piercings, foul language, violent imagery and entertainment as a commonplace part of youth culture is not a positive sign and is certainly not a symbol of liberal ideals -- indeed, considering the corporate culture that pushes this 'youth fashion' -- it is the opposite of liberalism.

[MadHound]

32. Wow, now you're stereotyping liberals?

You are grossly misrepresenting characteristics about the left in this country. I suggest that you rectify that.

[earthside]

36. The 'stereotype'.

'Liberalism' as a political philosophy does actually have real meaning, it has principles, tenets and specific ideas.

John Locke, Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson, John Stuart Mill ... those names ring any bells with you?

The 'stereotype' is the notion that being a liberal means just being 'leftist' or 'radical' or whatever you want it to mean.

I suggest you read more.

[Drale]

53. Get off my lawn you damn kids

The problem I see in general is that America looks down on those with mental issues. I have long been a proponent that everyone in the US should have access to and possibly even be force to go through physiological evaluations from time to time. We have we to many people with mental health issues who either refuse treatment or dont even realize they have a problem. You should be able to watch violent movies and play violent video games without ever thinking about killing a real human being. I have never wanted to kill anyone and I love all types of video games and I watch violent movies.

We have a Mental Health epidemic in this country and something needs to be done about it fast or else we are going to have more and more incidents like this.

[coalition_unwilling]

59. As though youth created this shitty society with its fucked up norms. Youth

(as represented in the ranks of Occupy) are this society's only possible salvation. And that's a pretty thin reed.

I totally dig your OP, btw. I see this as a function of 'social psychology' and some really fucked-up norms.

[JonLP24]

20. I think your last paragraph

is the primary reasons. Overall we're a lot less violent as a culture then we were before movies or video games.

[ananda]

2. They go together:

the collective societal mindset AND the gun mentality.

[zellie]

3. Thats beautiful....except

by the time they figure it he broke the law, multiple people have died needlessly.

It is guns.

[robinlynne]

73. Amen.

[mattclearing]

4. Guns are the problem.

Mentally ill people have easy access to guns. It's a recipe for disaster. Society is messed up, but a lot of gun violence is preventable, and can be discouraged with policy. You should see Bowling for Columbine again and realize that this happens in America because America can't regulate guns.

[MadHound]

5. Actually, I suggest that you re-watch BFC,

Because Moore makes the very cognizant point that Canada has more guns per capita than the US, but not these problems. So if it isn't the guns, it's got to be society.

[mattclearing]

24. You are right. I am wrong.

I had forgotten about this part of the movie. I do think that poor regulation and ambivalence towards mental illness play a role, though.

[MadHound]

6. Also, if people didn't have access to guns, but the same behavioral sink,

It would be bombs. It is incredibly easy to get the materials to create a massive bomb. Generally a trip to the grocery store will do it, if you know what you're doing. What, are we going to start regulating Spin 'n Span and lemons?

[mattclearing]

13. You can't buy a bomb at the store and blow people up five minutes later.

And if you don't think large purchases of explosive ingredients aren't tracked you may not have been paying attention the past ten years.

It's a matter of ease of access for people with no training and limited to no screening process.

[MadHound]

15. Apparently you haven't studied chemistry, either organic or inorganic.

I have, and I know for a fact that you can go into most any decent grocery store in this land and pick up all the material you need to create a bomb that has the potential to kill hundreds.

You can find the information on how to do so in any high school chemistry book, or if you really want it spoonfed to you, on the net. Do the authorities track lemons, or moth balls? I think not.

[mattclearing]

26. I've studied chemistry, but...

...I have neglected to take an interest in bomb-making from household items, it's true.

[MadHound]

29. It is remarkably easy,

For instance, a few mothballs, some scotch tape, and a gallon of gasoline can create a very powerful bomb. I could go into others using things like ammonia, Spin 'n Span, or lemons as part of the ingredients.

You've probably have enough ingredients in your pantry and fridge to make a decent bomb if you know what you're doing.

[RKP5637]

79. You make an excellent point IMO. The tool is being blamed, but really it's

the underling behavior that is the problem, and we have a lot of aberrant behavior in this society. Guns are just a tool, and if not that something else, as you aptly pointed out.

You know, Charles Manson once said something a long time ago that has stuck in my mind for decades, he said something to the effect, that our society is creating monsters, and he an example, a product of our aberrant society.

[auburngrad82]

8. Very true

How many times do we see shootings like this and it's always "the guy was mentally ill". That takes the blame away from everyone. "He was mentally ill, we didn't see it coming." Maybe if we tightened up gun laws a bit we could cut down on shootings like this or the one in Tampa earlier this week, or Gabby Giffords, or Virginia Tech, or Columbine, etc., etc.

Not sure how to do it but something is broken and needs to be fixed.

[MadHound]

10. If guns were the root problem,

Then explain why Canada has more guns per capita, yet way fewer mass shooting incidents.

[auburngrad82]

16. I didn't say guns were the root problem

Canada has much stricter gun laws than we do. I'm not talking about banning guns, but I do think we need to tighten up the rules a bit. As I said, I'm not sure how to do it, but maybe we can take a lesson from Canada and other countries who have greater control over guns and so fewer shootings.

[MadHound]

17. Do you honestly think that greater gun control laws would make a difference

To somebody bent on mass destruction?

What makes the difference in Canada is their society. Large swathes of their society don't live in fear, and their economic and societal pressures are much less than our own pressure cooker.

[auburngrad82]

19. So how do you fix that?

I agree, our society is broken. How do you fix it?

[MadHound]

21. Well, that is the question

Perhaps if we stopped pumping fear into our society via the media, created a better social safety net, become more caring about our fellow citizens rather than regarding them as our enemy

[mattclearing]

28. Agreed. n/t

[auburngrad82]

31. I'm to the point that I fear we've reached the point of no return

I just don't see that there is a way to fix it, given the current political atmosphere that has our country's citizens divided right down the middle on virtually every point. And I don't see a possibility of that changing any time soon.

There's no way to move forward without some kind of consensus and I don't see that happening any time soon. Possibly not in my lifetime.

This situation in Denver and several others this week have thrown me into a bit of a funk. Sorry for any perceived disagreements. I'm not anti-gun. Our problems are much deeper than just guns. I'm just frustrated and see no solution.

[RKP5637]

82. Definitely a step in the right direction. During my lifetime I've watched

citizens being 'the country,' to now as the enemy and in the way. We have taken the country out of the US and turned it into USA, Inc. Citizens are now regarded by some as a liability on the P&L statement than as an asset.

And, we have lost the core as to what it means to be a democracy. And, on top of that, Hate Media sells/spews in this country, 7x24. It's no wonder some/many? citizens are distraught and act out in aberrant ways.

[robinlynne]

74. hell yes. Greater gun control laws would make a huge difference.

[Canuckistanian]

42. But we don't have handguns or semi-automatics

Those are totally illegal. Almost all of those guns are hunting rifles.

[MadHound]

43. Which make a fine weapon of mass destruction,

Just look at what happened in that tower in Texas.

Oh, and if you don't think that many of your fellow Canadians don't have handguns or semi-autos, well, you're deluding yourself.

[Canuckistanian]

54. I misspoke there

I didn't mean to say such weapons were non-existent. Just that they're prohibited. Of course criminals will have illegal guns.

And thanks to our porous border, American handguns are relatively easy to procure.

[ChazII]

51. MadHound, thank you

for your observations in your posts #10 and #29. Hopefully others will hear what you are saying.

[hack89]

9. We enjoy historically low levels of gun violence

gun violence, along with all crime, has steadily declined since the early 1990's.

You have never been safer.

Now you comment on mentally ill people is right on the mark - we need a health care system that provides good mental health care for everyone. That is where the focus should be.

[HereSince1628]

18. The mentally ill commit remarkably little violent crime.

If you include all forms of mental illness the mentally ill are actually only fractionally more likely to commit violent crimes than the general public.

Even looking just at the seriously mental ill, the incidence rate of violence is only a few percent above that of the general population. And the reporting for violence by the seriously mental ill is biased by being very good, because a majority of the violence committed by the seriously mentally ill is against caregivers often at residential centers (prisons and clinics).

[mattclearing]

45. Even so, statistics on mental illness are hamstrung by lack of diagnosis.

That, and every time one of these mass shootings happens, the person who did it is clearly unwell.

I don't doubt that mentally ill people are scarcely more prone to violence than presumably non-mentally ill people, but it seems like mega-violent/suicidal shooting rampages are always committed by people who have lost the proverbial plot.

Considering the lack of proper attention to mental illness and stigma against seeking treatment, I don't even know how someone would go about effectively regulating the mentally ill's access to guns. The whole topic of mental illness needs to be re-examined by society in general.

[Hoyt]

56. Could even be less with stricter gun laws. Instead, NRA and right wingers are making it easy to

carry guns in public. And with Stand Your Ground laws -- again promoted by NRA and rigth wing gun groups-- you too can go out buy a gun, and say kiss my ass to anyone who screws with you. That's a nice way to run a society.

[hack89]

61. Could be less with rational drug laws.

lets start there - it is a lot easier.

[Hoyt]

67. I agree. Would you then agree to leave your guns at home?

[hack89]

68. I very seldom take my guns in public

I live in a safe area. I own guns mainly for family recreation.

[Skidmore]

11. Part of fixing our society means some attitude adjustment

toward weaponry and violence. Guns are a problem.

[MadHound]

12. Apparently not in Canada,

Where the residents own more guns per capita than us, but far fewer of these sorts of incidents.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

14. This country does not take mental health seriously. I give you that. nt

[Sancho]

22. Guns are a problem...

you are wrong. Guns should be licensed and the license renewed every year. All licenses should be issued after completion of training, and training renewal should be a requirement to possess a gun.

People who own guns should be screened often and subject to serious background checks. That includes criminal and psychological clearance.

Buying guns and ammo should be hard to do - and require records of all purchases. Assault guns, large magazines should be illegal. There should be quotas on ammo.

Guns in the US are a problem - and easy access to guns is a problem - lack of gun control is a problem.

Our "society", just like you, has a responsibility to avoid being reckless. We can't easily change poverty, but it would be easy to have stricter laws to prevent some of these nuts from killing folks on a whim.

It would take years to clean up the mess, but it's time to start now.

[MadHound]

25. So if there are no guns, but still a sick society,

Those poor people in the theater would have been blown up instead of shot. The death toll would probably have been greater if that were the case.

Greater gun control is simply treating the symptom, it doesn't address the root problems with our society. Yes, it will be tough to solve these root problems, but so is anything that is worth doing. Don't you think that it is worth it to solve the root problems of our society?

[Sancho]

47. I grew up in a hunting family, on military bases, member of NRA, etc...times have changed.

Gun control is necessary now. Responsible hunters and gun owners can give up some inconvenience to get some of the crazies and excessive guns off the streets.

I used to think like you do, but I see the need for rules and regulations at this time. It's past time.

Part of solving societal problems is enacting reasonable laws. Some are positive (anti-discrimination), others are safety (speed limits), and others require inconvenience (immunizations to go to public school).

Our society may not prevent all tragedies, but the guns are out of control. It's like the wild west, but with machine guns. If you want to own a gun you should take training, have an extensive background check, possess a current license to buy guns and ammo, and be responsible for that gun at all times. Instead of putting all those folks in jail for smoking dope, we could replace them with anyone found in possession of a gun illegally. I'd bet the crime rate and mass murders would decrease. It won't likely happen, but I'm convinced it should.

[zellie]

50. You said it right.

The guns are out of control.

[coalition_unwilling]

65. While I generally favor licensing requirements for firearms possession, I must

point out that such requirements will probably not do much to reduce the supply of firearms. Instead, it will lead to the creation of what economists refer to as a 'black market,' with correspondingly higher prices to compensate vendors for the additional risks.

That said, there is an argument to be made for licensing, in that actuarial science suggests people who own firearms (whether lawfully or otherwise) are far more likely to suffer injury or death from accidental discharge of the firearm than from being attacked by some armed intruder.

[rl6214]

81. Voters are the problem

you are wrong. Voters should be licensed and the license renewed every year. All licenses should be issued after completion of training, and training renewal should be a requirement to be allowed to vote.

People who vote should be screened often and subject to serious background checks. That includes criminal and psychological clearance.

Voting should be hard to do - and require records of all votes.

voters in the US are a problem - and easy access to voting is a problem .

Our "society", just like you, has a responsibility to avoid being reckless. We can't easily change poverty, but it would be easy to have stricter laws to prevent some of these nuts from voting on a whim.

It would take years to clean up the mess, but it's time to start now.


See how that works.

[ananda]

23. Also consider shock and awe becoming the new normal.

This is what scares me.

[spanone]

30. machine guns gotta go. they ARE a problem

[MadHound]

33. Any weapon, or potential weapon is a problem,

If it is in the hands of the wrong person.

However I know a couple of wonderful people who have BAR's, and they are the nicest people around. They just like having a piece of history.

Also, if you take away the guns, then those in our society who are stressed beyond snapping would simply find something else to do their deed with, a something that could be much more deadly than a machine gun.

We need to treat the problems in our society, not the symptom of guns.

[Pholus]

34. You're right, John B. Calhoun is relevant to this I fear....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink

Your examples of history-loving gun owners are correct and not the problem. However, there are more than a few counterexamples of gun owners who exhibit the hyperagressive tendencies that Calhouns rats did as well. There is something not quite right about these folks but until you mentioned this I had never considered that it could be their reaction to too many social stimulii.

As far as that goes, actually it explains much of the right wing as well!

[soccer1]

35. Serious crime rate is down in the U.S.

Tough to believe after this Colorado incident...but apparently, true. Not much solace in the wake of this horrific incident, but an interesting read.

From the Christian Science Monitor:

"US crime rate at lowest point in decades. Why America is safer now.
The crime rate for serious crimes, including murder, rape, and assault, has dropped significantly since the early 1990s in part because of changes in technology and policing, experts say.


By Daniel B. Wood, Staff writer / January 9, 2012

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice/2012/0109/US-crime-rate-at-lowest-point-in-decades.-Why-America-is-safer-now

[Marrah_G]

37. Lack of mental health care is a huge problem

[ProgressiveEconomist]

38. YES! A society that WORSHIPS guns is the problem.

"End poverty, extend compassion"??? Other societies have more poverty and more stress than Americans face. What they DON'T have is a culture that reveres implements of mass death.

Think of little George W. Bush in his favorite cowboy suit, growing up celbrating genocide against Native Americans. Fantasy became reality, first when he shot his brother with a BB gun, and later when he decided, "Iwanted to be a war President" like his dad.

Tens of thousands of Americans belong to the NRA, an organization that has succeeded in distorting the Constitution wildly in court, and strayed far even from its patheetic mission of promoting guns everywhere. The NRA "scored" votes in Congress on holding the Attorney General in quick-count contempt and on keeping the identities of special interests behind million-dollar political bribes secret.

What a country!

[MadHound]

39. Take away the guns and leave our society as it is,

And these incidents would still happen. Just as often as they happen now. Contrariwise, let's look at Canada, far more guns per capita, yet they don't have these mass shooting events. Why? A kinder, more compassionate, less fearful population.

[Canuckistanian]

44. Canada has more guns per capita? Not even close, according to Wikipedia

We're 13th on the list.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

[MadHound]

46. That is not only five years out of date,

But inaccurate as well.

[Canuckistanian]

49. Michael Moore made that claim in 2004

In Bowling for Columbine. Gun ownership would have had to skyrocket in the intervening time period. It has not.
And it doesn't jive with our attitude about guns. We don't have anywhere NEAR the amount of gun stores, gun clubs, gun shows, shooting ranges and ammo supply places that America does. We simply don't worship firearms like Americans do.

I've always been suspicious about that statistic. Do you have more recent or accurate numbers?

[ProgressiveEconomist]

60. 89 guns per 100 people in the US compared to 31 in Canada

is a statistic highly unlikely to have flipped since 2007.

The USA was number 1 at 89, compared to number 2 Serbia at a mere 58!

IMO our sorry record is safe for many years if not decades.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

64. Thanks for that link. It absolutely destroys pure BS in the OP.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

52. More assault weapons in cities in Canada than in the US?

I think not.

Many people missed the fact that Darryl Issa's committee to investigate gun-tracing in Mexico decided early on to exclude any discussion of assault weapons bans, even though the escalation of mass killing in Mexicon obviously coincided with the expiration of the AWB in 2004.

You gun promoters act as though you're just defending home protection and hunting with single-shot rifles, when in actuality you've institutionalized eaxy access of any schizo to automatic assault weapons with 30-shot magazines that can be sprayed into crowds in seconds.

[warrprayer]

40. Crazy people have always had guns

... it's not like it's a recent development

[MadHound]

41. And the Unibomber and Tim McVeigh had their bombs,

It isn't the weapon choice that is the problem, it is our underlying society, a society that is less compassionate and more fearful than most other countries in this world.

Canada has more guns per capita than the US, but not these sort of mass shootings. Why? Their society is more compassionate, and less fearful.

[warrprayer]

48. I tend to agree

but I think the people in the mental health business need to cross reference with the no-gun buy list folks much, much more. Perhaps this horror could have been prevented.

[flamingdem]

55. I think it's about the guns and social tolerance of gun loving

It's just too frickin' easy to pull a trigger. The same mentally ill individual - or bully as the case may be - would be chickenshit to try to knife people or set off a bomb. Goodness they might blow themselves up. This bully intended to live, thus the body armor.

He was in love with those long shiny powerful tools of death. That's why it's very much about THE GUNS.

[Hoyt]

57. Exactly. And gun culture glamorizes guns and promotes more and more of them.

[flamingdem]

58. It's also about profit off of the long shiny powerful guns

It's a cocktail of motivations that drive gun culture not to mention the dog whistles from the right.

[Romulox]

62. Our society has no soul, no purpose, no connection between Americans. Capitalism doesn't need

us anymore, and we have been shaped for no other use...

[woo me with science]

75. Thank you.

Last edited Fri Jul 20, 2012, 10:48 PM - Edit history (1)

I have posted this Noam Chomsky quote a couple of times. I think it fits here, too:

"...The other one is not discussed so much, but I think it’s pretty important. This is an extremely atomized society. People are alone. It’s a very business-run society. The very explicit goal of the business world is to create a social order in which the basic social unit is you and your television set, in which you’re watching ads and going out to purchase commodities. There are tremendous efforts made, that have been going on for a century and a half, to try to induce this kind of consciousness and social order."

Our society is built to isolate and breed material consumption. It glorifies the worst of us and devalues what is truly important. More than gun control, we need a reevaluation of our entire profit-centered, callous, isolating, and impoverishing culture that devalues human life and relationships and leaves people feeling alone, angry, and hopeless.

[reformist2]

80. An atomized society is a pulverized one.

[99Forever]

63. With all due respect to you..

.. I disagree with your assumption that removing the easy access to guns won't help end the slaughter of innocents, for no good fucking reason. In fact, your conclusion is just plain illogical.

"...these incidents will continue just using bombs instead of guns." is little more than a strawman argument for which there is absolutely no evidence, beyond the rantings of gunfreaks and NRA propagandists.

Of course we need to correct MANY injustices in our society, that's a no-brainer, but one of the biggest of them is, that we have to worry for our lives in public places because some "manly men" with a penis substitute might go over the edge and decide to use it on us.

Fuck the NRA and everyone that supports it.

[WeekendWarrior]

66. Well, yes, except

he wouldn't have been able to kill or wound 50 people with a knife or a baseball bat.

Guns are part of the problem, whether or not you want to admit that. Guns EMPOWER people more than any other weapon out there.

[ProgressiveEconomist]

69. The OP author appears to have left the building

Chased away by reason and facts

[MadHound]

70. No, the OP has left the building because I've other things to do

Like insuring that my orchard survives this drought, washing my dogs, getting together with friends in a couple of hours. You know, a real life. I'm not one to sit and post all day. Don't like that, oh well, I'm not here to please your every whim.

[drokhole]

71. I can't put it any better than Krishnamurti...

Last edited Fri Jul 20, 2012, 11:39 PM - Edit history (1)

"What is society? Is it not the relationship of one individual with another? If individuals in themselves are ignorant, cruel, ambitious, and so on, their society will reflect all that they are in themselves. We all see the necessity, the importance of social change. Wars, starvation, ruthless pursuit of power, and so on, with these we are all familiar, and some earnestly desire to change these conditions. How are you going to change them? By destroying the many or the few who create the disharmony in the world?

Who are the many or the few? You and I, aren't we? Each one is involved in it, because we are greedy, we are possessive, we crave for power. We want to bring order within society, but how are we to do it? Do you seriously think there are only a few who are responsible for this social disorganization, these wars and hatreds? How are you going to get rid of them? If you destroy them, you use the very means they have employed and so make of yourself also an instrument of hatred and brutality. Hate cannot be destroyed by hate, however much you may like to hide your hate under pleasant sounding words.
Methods determine the ends. You cannot kill in order to have peace and order; to have peace you must create peace within yourself and thereby in your relationship with others, which is society.
----
Individuals are the result of varied forms of influence and limitation and the relationship of one individual with another creates the world - the world of values. The world is the social, moral, spiritual structure based on values created by us, isn't it? The social world, as well as the so-called spiritual world, is created by us individuals through our fears, hopes, cravings, and so on. We see the world of hate taking its harvest at the present. This world of hate has been created by our fathers and their forefathers and by us. Thus ignorance stretches indefinitely into the past. It has not come into being by itself. It is the outcome of human ignorance, a historical process, isn't it? We as individuals have co-operated with our ancestors, who, with their forefathers, set going this process of hate, fear, greed, and so on. Now, as individuals, we partake of this world of hate so long as we, individually, indulge in it."

- Jiddu Krishnamurti, An individual and society

"Can you and I, then, bring about in ourselves without any outside influence, without any persuasion, without any fear of punishment - can we bring about in the very essence of our being a total revolution, a psychological mutation, so that we are no longer brutal, violent, competitive, anxious, fearful, greedy, envious and all the rest of the manifestations of our nature which have built up the rotten society in which we live our daily lives?"

- Jiddu Krishnamurti, Freedom From the Known

Thank you for your OP.

[robinlynne]

72. I think removing the guns from the scenario is a great start! Nothing against changing society

but that takes generations.

[Bluerthanblue]

76. you said what i feel

so perfectly.

thank you...

[orpupilofnature57]

77. Misery is dispensed on anyone not playing the game

That is the silent killer contempt for anyone that we can't use.

[woo me with science]

78. DU Rec. This is the best OP on the shooting that I have read.

Thank you. You are absolutely right.

[soccer1]

83. Yes, our society is the problem on two fronts......

1.people not being able to confront stress in a healthy way

2. our society allows the over stressed and mentally unstable, to own firearms.

[larwdem]

84. ACA

Pres. Obama needs to talk about how the ACA is the first step at affordable mental health care for all.

[Odin2005]

85. + Infinity!

Canadians are just as gun-happy as we are, but their rates of violent crime are MUCH lower than ours. Why? Because they have a saner, more just society. The obsession with guns is only looking at a symptom, and is ignoring the cause of the disease.

[woo me with science]

86. Kick.