HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Sociopaths And Psychopath...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:36 PM

Sociopaths And Psychopaths: We Need To Screen Cops Nationwide - NOW.

Yes, there are psychologically healthy cops out there; but they appear to be badly outnumbered by the mentally ill ones who currently control and continue to corrupt the culture.

The Justice Department should consider nationwide mental health screening for anyone with a badge - and start weening out the ones who pose a danger - both actively and potentially - to the public.

Get them the help they need, sure. But take the guns and the awesome power granted to police away from them - the ruined lives, the growing number of citizens murdered by police, and the broken familes left in their wake, should be more than sufficient motivation to act on this problem in a way that maintains respect for police authority in general.

Think about it: Without effective psychological screening, we are putting a license to kill and unmatched power into the hands of dangerously mentally ill individuals who, because they are sick, actually WANT to kill people, actually WANT to physically beat, maim, and injure people, and who regard the power entrusted to them as inherently their own (not the State's), to use for self-aggrandizement, for their personal thrills, for their own amusement, for their personal enjoyment.

This is akin to putting pedophiles into grade schools; something we would NEVER knowingly do. Yet, we do the same sort of thing with our police forces across this country every day, giving catastrophically sick individuals the tools they need to feed their twisted appetites, setting them loose upon a citizenry which depends upon police for protection and security.

So let's psychologically test them all, dammit, and give the jobs currently held by the sick ones to healthy folks who will do the job we NEED them to do.

So many lives are at stake...and things are only getting worse and more dangerous for the citizens (you and me and our families and neghbors and friends!) which this multitude of sick cops are freely and joyously preying upon daily, all across this country...

24 replies, 5772 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 24 replies Author Time Post
Reply Sociopaths And Psychopaths: We Need To Screen Cops Nationwide - NOW. (Original post)
JFN1 Jul 2012 OP
snappyturtle Jul 2012 #1
JFN1 Jul 2012 #3
snappyturtle Jul 2012 #22
virgogal Jul 2012 #2
JFN1 Jul 2012 #5
Canuckistanian Jul 2012 #9
AnotherMcIntosh Jul 2012 #4
Comrade_McKenzie Jul 2012 #6
nobodyspecial Jul 2012 #15
applegrove Jul 2012 #7
randome Jul 2012 #8
JFN1 Jul 2012 #11
nobodyspecial Jul 2012 #13
JFN1 Jul 2012 #20
rwsanders Jul 2012 #10
nobodyspecial Jul 2012 #12
nadinbrzezinski Jul 2012 #14
Tuesday Afternoon Jul 2012 #16
loyalsister Jul 2012 #17
JFN1 Jul 2012 #21
PETRUS Jul 2012 #18
Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2012 #19
laundry_queen Jul 2012 #23
Boogercat Jun 2014 #24

Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:41 PM

1. The problem is the psychological screening tests are expensive and

have to have professional interpretation.....are economically strapped police departments going to spend the money on it? Doubtful. imho They'd rather purchase more tasers and clubs to defend themselves against a defenseless society!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to snappyturtle (Reply #1)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:44 PM

3. Justice Department can and should do it. This should not be handled locally.

And screw the cost - PEOPLE ARE DYING. We need to get the predators off the streets and into a doctor's care...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Reply #3)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:42 PM

22. Sorry but the Justice Department would never do this on a national basis.

It's going to be up to the local citizenery.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:43 PM

2. What brought this on?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to virgogal (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:51 PM

5. Last week I saw the video of that mentally ill guy being beaten to death by cops

as he cried out for his father. Made me sick.

We cannot allow this sort of thing to continue; Trayvon Martin is further evidence of the sociopathology at work in our police departents...three days they let his family wonder, before even trying to contact them about his murder...

THIS. MUST. STOP. NOW.

We should not be a meal for sociopaths and psychopaths wielding the power of life and death over us; particularly since we are literally helpless to oppose them...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to virgogal (Reply #2)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 10:14 PM

9. If you haven't noticed lately, unwarranted violence among police officers is increasing

From Occupy demonstrations to cops killing non-threatening pets to tasering jay-walkers.

This is going beyond the "bad apple" stage. It's institutional. There's a CULTURE of cops acting like laws unto themselves.

And it's got to be dealt with somehow.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:48 PM

4. "there are psychologically healthy cops"? The same ones covering for the Sociopaths And Psychos?

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 08:53 PM

6. Agreed...

 

And firing cops needs to be easier.

As much as I hate that for any worker, one incident of excessive force that could have been acoided should be enough to terminate and/or imprison the officer or officers involved.

Pre-employment psychological screenings should also be in place.

Make law enforcement a high-paying career, as well. Demilitarize the hell out of them and add it to salaries and pensions.

We need to make law enforcement a respectable career choice again, not a low-wage magnet for imbeciles.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Comrade_McKenzie (Reply #6)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:18 PM

15. Maybe you won't get rich, but low wage?

Police or Sheriff's Patrol Officer $48,738

Deputy Sheriff $38,535
Detective or Criminal Investigator $50,104
Police Sergeant $65,002
Police Detective $60,092
Police Officer $48,847
Police Chief $71,583
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Industry=Law_Enforcement/Salary

As far as imbeciles, most departments require at least 60 hours of college credit or honorable military discharge.
http://www.realpolice.net/articles/training/police-and-law-enforcement-general-job-requirements.html

We are talking about actual cops, not security guards.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 09:36 PM

7. Not just those public servants, many, many jobs should have screening for psychopaths.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 09:40 PM

8. 'Badly outnumbered by the mentally ill'?

Do you believe that or is that just hyperbole? If the former, I'd like to see the statistics but since you are also saying we don't know who the psychopaths are, I guess it's the latter.

Every city manages their own police force. The Justice Department is not going to wrest control of America.

Could better training including psychological testing be a good thing? Absolutely. But, again, it's up to each municipality to determine that for their own citizens.

And I don't see massive numbers of people demanding it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to randome (Reply #8)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 10:52 PM

11. As far as I know, there are no such numbers available.

However, one can approximate the numbers by simply looking at the veritable avalanche of incidents of police brutality, authoritarian behaviors, and killings/murders committed by police - the number of incidents is steadily rising.

Try doing a DU search for "police" and see how many threads come up - I did - and there are way too many of them. And after looking through page after page of stories documenting attrocities, I found only one single story about a cop acting in a socially responsible way. Take it to a larger arena on Google and see what you get - the disparity is quite telling.

Sociopathology does not always manifest as active abuse; often it is passive, such as allowing abuses and criminal acts committed by cops to go unreported by other cops. This sort of tacit approval is dangerous, and more, it is by definition sociopathic.

-- Think about why cops "hate" internal affairs. You might also consider how many TV shows and movies glorify police violence and law bending/breaking by cops, and what this says about the police culture in our country.

-- Or just think about the cop who pepper sprayed the UC Berkely protesters who were passively sitting on the ground - it sure looks to me like he sprayed them just for the fun of it; and he was obviously quite confident his power as a police officer rightfully allowed him to commit this random and senseless violence against individuals utterly helpless to stop him from doing so.

-- Or think about how the UC Berkely and local city/county/State cops gathered around him and supported his version of the incident (he justified his actions with a big fat fucking lie, saying he believed he was in imminent danger from the protesters he sprayed), until video of the event overwhelmingly demonstrated otherwise.

-- Or think about how unreasonably angry and violent cops become when they find they are being videoed by anyone - a good example of this is a story I saw a few weeks ago here on DU about a woman who was arrested - on her own property! - for videoing a cop abusing a citizen on the street in front of her home...and this AFTER the Supreme Court found it was in the public interest to video cops performing their duties.

-- Or think about the recent case in NYC, where cops protestd en masse over the trial of cops found guilty of ticket fixing, and how these copswere pissed that they couldn't freely break the law to suit their egos.

-- Or visit the Big City Cops page on Facebook - consider their slogan "Let them hate, so long as they fear," and what this says about their mental state. There are more than a few cops who frequent, like, and regulrily comment on the page - it is not jut a few "rogue" cops - they are truly legion.

I could go on and on and on; examples of dangerous mental illness manifesting through the behavior of our police are everywhere, and seem endless.

And given such, it is my impression (which I did qualify in my post's opening sentence with the word "appears") that mental illness is running wild in our police forces, overwhelming the few healthy cops who took the job because they wanted to SERVE the public, not merely use them as playthings and aggression targets and live prey.

Were there more healthy cops than sick ones, I do not believe my proposal and the observations which prompted it would exist.

Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that mentally ill cops must far outnumber healthy ones, else the culture, and the public's relationship with it's police forces, would be vastly different than what we are currently experiencing.

So I must answer you no - my assertion concernng the number of mentally ill police I suspect exist, is not hyperbole; rather, it is careful conjecture, based upon observation, since there are, to my personal knowledge, no such numbers on this matter from which to pull.

Conjecture is not unreasonable - and it is not as if there are no examples (to the contrary, there are, in fact, shitloads of them) to back up my conclusions on this matter...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Reply #11)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:12 PM

13. ALL anecdotal.

Try doing a DU search for "police" and see how many threads come up <-- Talk about generating a sampling error in your research.

Don't care how many words you used. You really have not proven your case. It is all opinions based on anecdotal evidence.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nobodyspecial (Reply #13)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 01:22 AM

20. This is not a research project. I'm not "sampling" for scientific theory or statistical analysis.

Have a heart, for pete's sake.

INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE BEING FUCKING KILLED BY THE VERY INDIVIDUALS CHARGED WITH PROTECTING THEM.

INNOCENT PEOPLE ARE BEING BRUTALIZED, BEATEN, AND MAIMED BOTH PHYSICALLY AND PYCHOLOGICALLY BY THE VERY INDIVIDUALS CHARGED WITH PROTECTING THEM.

And anecdotal observation is not always trivial - I am surprised you do not acknowledge this.

Facts, are facts. As epistomology states, a fact does not require proof; it is self-evident.

And it is a FACT that cops all across the country are abusing their authority as police officers, rather than discharging their authority in the legal, ethical, and moral ways Americans are conditioned to expect. And please, don't lecture me about all the good cops do.

I have, and will again affirm, I know cops do good things every day. In fact, I saw a State cop helping a disabled guy change a flat tire on the Interstate earlier today. Cops are paid to do good things, after all; isn't this their primary function - to do good?

Do you not understand how appearance and image maintenance are part of the sociopath's and psychopath's behavioral camoflage, and how "normal" behavior is one of the principle means a sociopath or a psychopath uses to seem healthy? I ask, for it appears your inclusion of this particular assertion is missing entirely from your rebuttals. Do you understand at all how a sociopath or a psychopath operates in society at large?
- - - - -
Tell you what - since you apparently do not care for MY anecdotal observations and personal experience and the conclusions these lead me to draw, please use your expertise at data sampling, as a service to the DU community, and find all the reports you can OF COPS EN MASSE CONDEMNING ANY AND/OR ALL INCIDENTS OF COPS KILLING UNARMED INNOCENT CIVILIANS, COPS BRUTALIZING UNARMED CIVILIANS, COPS COVERING UP CRIMES OR UNCONSTITUTIONAL ACTS OR ABUSES OR EXCESSES.

Because if I am correct, you'll find plenty of police department condemnation of partcularly high profile incidents - which could be sincere, but are more likely face-saving/political/public relations/ass-covering press releases, rather than heartfelt expressions coupled with determined accountability and strategies to modify the culture which makes these incidents possible and prevelent.

And if I am correct, what you will NOT find is individual cops, or groups of cops, or police brotherhoods or unions or associations, condemning the culture which allows these acts.

Do you know why you won't find this anywhere out there? BECAUSE THEY ARE A GROUP LARGELY CONSISTING OF, AND DOMINATED BY, SOCIOPATHS.

If this were not so, don't you think cops everywhere would be mortified by these increasingly common events? Don't you think they would speak out against cops who do these terrible things, against cops who cover these monstrous things up?
- - - - -
You know, airline pilots could start "accidentally" driving their planes into airport terminals, if they wanted to - scare, injure, or even kill people, do tons of damage to equipment and facilities, cover these incidents for each other ("yeah, I was flying that plane last week, I thought the brakes felt funny, so don't blame Charlie, its not his fault") - but they don't.

Do you know why? BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT A GROUP LARGELY CONSISTING OF, AND DOMINATED BY, SOCIOPATHS.

So please - find the data that will prove me wrong, so I can comfortably forget about all of ths horror, and go to bed...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 10:41 PM

10. In Missouri it takes less training...

to be a cop (240 hours) than it does to be a hairdresser (1500 hours).
But overall, wanting to be a cop should probably be all the test that is needed. Just like with politicians, anyone who wants the job should probably be disqualified.
This gets me to one of the biggest things that confuses me about cops: you would think that they would be in favor of gun control, but with a few exceptions, most of the cops I meet are staunch republicans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:09 PM

12. Any proof of this?

"but they appear to be badly outnumbered by the mentally ill ones who currently control and continue to corrupt the culture.

Stories in the newspaper or videos -- no matter how horrific -- prove nothing. That's anecdotal, not statistical evidence, and does nothing to prove your assertion.

And, this is a dog bites man type of story. You don't get coverage of the millions of officers who do their job peacefully and professionally every day. You only see those that have seriously stepped out of bonds. It's the same with airplanes. If you see a bunch of stories about crashes in a week, it might unnerve you. But, thousands more planes land safely.

And, it varies from state to state and department to department, but a large percentage, at least up north and in large urban areas, psychological testing already is part of the employment screening process. You can push for more state and local testing, but as someone pointed out, it wouldn't be feasible for the feds to take this over and would be overstepping their bounds. The fact that you don't seem to know that many, many departments already require this testing indicates that you haven't researched this topic enough and are forming an opinion based on emotion.

And, yes, I realize I'm setting myself up to be bashed because I don't share a universal hatred for cops, which is so prevalent here. And I am not apologizing for any of this behavior. Those involved need to lose their jobs, face court trials and serve time in jail if warranted.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:14 PM

14. You are aware of course, that ALL departments do that screening

before they hire anybody into the force, right?

Nope.

Look, part of the problem is NOT, I will repeat this, IS NOT THE OFFICERS.

It is the leadership and the changes and militarization of the culture in general, let alone police departments. Badly led departments, a few of them, more than a few... tend to have more issues with this crap than WELL LED departments.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:20 PM

16. Mental Health should be available to everyone it is part and parcel of Healthcare.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:24 PM

17. Overusing and inaccurately using clinical language is the worst kind of hyperbole

Do we know for a fact that they are not screened?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to loyalsister (Reply #17)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 01:46 AM

21. The vast majority pf cops in America are NOT psychologically screened.

I have a brother who is a cop, has been for about fifteen years now, is an assistant Chief of Police in a city of about 110,000 people. There are NO psych screenings for sociopathology or psychopathology in his city, though they must graduate from a police academy (a two week course here) to be qualified for a position on the police force. The only psych screening they receive is crisis response at the academy.

I have two uncles who are State cops. They have both told me no mental fitness standards, again outside of crisis response, are required for employment with the State police.

Oh - and I have a Master's degree in psychology, another in philosophy (focused on philosophy of the mind), and I constantly read new research and current theories being explored in psychology, in the attempt to further my knowledge of the subject.

I am not flippantly thowing these terms around - I spent about six days researching and writing my initial post, and had a couple of my peers critique it prior to puttin it online. I use great circumspection when posting opinions here (see my long standing membership and low post count) and I use clinical terms only with careful and deliberate precision. Don't let my passions convince you I am merely being inflammatory; I am quite sincere in my convictions, as I am also quite certain there are solutiuons to the problems I post about here in order to foster debate and to further my exploration of possible solutions.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:53 PM

18. What do you think about the Stanford prison experiment? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:06 AM

19. What about the sociopathic lawyers and judges I worked for??

Bosses of all kinds are mentally ill.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Mon Jul 16, 2012, 12:49 PM

23. Some forces do.

I'm not in the US however, maybe that is why. My SIL went through a shit load of psychological tests. So did my brother, actually, before they would even accept my SIL for training (they wanted to make sure he could deal with having a cop for a spouse). They also had to undergo intensive counselling before she was done her training. Still, she reports that she works with a lot of power tripping jerks. Any *good* sociopath or psychopath will have no problems getting past a few screening tests. That's what they DO. Even experts on psychopathy have said they still occasionally get 'taken' by a psychopath and their mind games. They are usually pretty good at manipulating everyone and anything to get what they want, and that includes mental health screening tests. Only the 'dumb' ones (think Zimmerman) have problems getting in.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JFN1 (Original post)

Sun Jun 29, 2014, 08:59 AM

24. Psychopathy is NOT mental illness

Psychopathy is a personality disorder, not a mental one. These particular psychopaths are sadistic, and yes screening HAS to be done. But they're not "crazy", they're quite sane. They are simply aconscience (without conscience).

And we DO have the tools to screen out the psychopaths that seem to have infiltrated police forces all over. It's called the PCL, developed by Robert Hare.

They have no problem inflicting themselves on civilians, whom they think of as their "lessers".

It's a horrendous problem. I just had to point out that this is in NO WAY a "mental illness". Most mentally ill ppl are NOT psychopaths. Confusing that causes discrimination against the TRULY mentally ill, most of which pose no threat to society as psychopaths do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread