I am more terrified of christian zealots here at home than all other terrorist outfits combined

[IamFortunesFool]

We suffer under the yoke of their oppression first and foremost. It is them, not the muslims, leading this country into Bannon's global war.

[old guy]

1. Getting worse, but as it always has been.

[Cryptoad]

32. They get good Jeff seated as AG,,,,,

DOJ will stop tracking these people,,,,,,,,,

[GoCubsGo]

2. Same here.

I live in the Bible Belt. I have had to deal with their "blue laws" and their religious bullies for 35 years. But, it's nothing compared to what Pence and his ilk want to force on us. Theses loons spew on about "Sharia law", but that's exactly what they want to force on us. Anyone who has paid attention to what kinds of laws have been passed in places like Texas, Oklahoma, and Pence's Indiana are well aware of this. And, those places will look like a bastion of liberalism if these assholes get their way.

[IamFortunesFool]

3. Yes. I am in Tennessee...

I am in Tennessee, and the reactions I get when I allow myself to be drawn into conversation with these idiots fall somewhere on the spectrum between outright malice and frightened dismissal....often both extremes. They truly believe they are persecuted and beset on all sides by culture, liberal politicians, muslims, gays, etc... They are already at war. I cannot tell you how many times I've had to listen to somebody's interpretation of current events as told through the lens of a supposed ongoing "spiritual war". They already believe it will become martial war, and so they agitate and welcome it, often without even realizing. To ironically quote their patriarchal hero: "Forgive them father, for they know not what they do."

I am having a real hard time forgiving these days...

Probably because there are enough of them that know EXACTLY what they are doing and spoil any generosities I may have extended the knuckle-dragging masses and acolytes.

[Docreed2003]

21. As a Tennessee native, I can attest to this!

[3catwoman3]

59. "I am having a real hard time forgiving these days..."

Forgiveness is way overrated, IMO.

[Martin Eden]

16. "what Pence and his ilk want to force on us"

That's the biggest drawback to impeaching Trump.

[GoCubsGo]

18. Except that Trump will just rubber-stamp whatever Pence hands him.

No doubt that kind of thing is already going on. I'm pretty sure Pence is doing the bulk of the actual governing now, while Comrade Pussy Grabber sits on his toilet and tweets all night long.

[IamFortunesFool]

24. Watching his little EO signing circle-jerks is both hilarious and nauseating

You can tell from the body language of everybody in the room what is actually going on. Pence and Priebus stand to either side feeding (Priebus) Trump his new shiny play thing, and leading the applause (Pence) when he solves the Playschool puzzle. Trump is gloating as the center of the sycophantic attention. His over the top acting as if he's reading each document before then making some inane or imagined clever quip to the cameras. He's putting on a show of his own imagining, and everybody else is afraid to tell the emperor that he has no clothes. It is so transparent and sickening....

[3catwoman3]

61. He needs to stop...

...displaying/showing off his fucking signature each time he signs something.

I'd like to shove those pens down his throat or up his ass.

[IamFortunesFool]

62. LOL If the secret service wasn't paying attention to us yet, they are now!

Remember the vanishing pencil trick that Heath Ledger's Joker did in The Dark Knight?... Yeah...

[Martin Eden]

26. Steve Bannon probably has a bigger influence on Trump

But take your pick -- they are both a horror.

[haele]

35. Heck, the KKK has no problems with Dominionists.

They're fellow travelers, after all. White Nationalists do very well in society living under Calvinist-style Levitican Law. They can bully and murder all the minorities and non-WASPS they want with impunity. All they have to do is provide lip service to the Priest-Kings, falsely accuse their victims, and know they have the blessing to go forth and murder for the Lord.

Haele

[Eliot Rosewater]

51. And since we now know hundreds of thousands of people in swing states "allegedly"

left "prez" spot blank on ballots, way more than usual, meaning the election was certainly stolen, it is maddening to have any of them anywhere near that White House.

[LittleGirl]

49. Yep, born and raised in Indiana

and you still cannot buy alcohol on Sunday anywhere! You can get a drink at a restaurant but not at the store!
No Sunday alcohol for you! and You!
Glad I left!

[2naSalit]

79. And remember...

Hoosier Hospitality is NO Accident!

[LittleGirl]

80. LOL

I know there are good people in Indiana and my Mother is one of them. She's 84.
But there are a lot of redneck hillbillies too. I say that as someone who has relatives in the south, my Mother was born there, so it's just the honest truth. You see, Indiana was a part of the southern migration. Many of the residents of Indiana hail from the southern states. After the war (2), the manufacturing bases in Indiana were booming (my home town one of them) and that's why there is so many rednecks. They came for the jobs and never left. The jobs left, but they didn't.

[2naSalit]

83. Interesting.

I used to drive through Indiana, a lot... once upon a time. There used to be these signs along the highways, especially the toll roads, that said "Hoosier Hospitality is NO Accident" and you'd see one about every 25 miles or so... always wondered if the sign writer got the double entdre that some saw in that phrasing.

I liked the southern part of the state far more than the northern and central parts, not that it's big state area wise but there are distinctly different aspects to the areas from each other. And besides, that's where those nifty antique hutch-like pieces of essential furniture those settlers hauled out here, we still have a some and they are still cherished.

[LittleGirl]

84. Big difference

I grew up 5 miles from Michigan's border and 40 miles from Lake Michigan - my beach. It's flat as a pancake up there and the southern section is hilly and lovely.

It was the jobs. Lots of lots of Jobs. But in the 80s, they went to the southern states who got paid less because many of the shops were union in my area. So then when the southerners wanted those union wages, they sent the jobs to Mexico or China.

I've seen this happening all of my life. Obama didn't cause this, Reagan did. In fact, while he was President, they lowered the availability to PELL grants and I lost out because of it. I didn't finish my degree until I was 45. Thanks Reagan. I"m the only one of 5 children in my family that finished college.

[2naSalit]

86. That's when I was out there...

during ronnie-raygun's rein. I was working and not yet ready to go to college even if I could afford it. I drove all over the "lakes states" and Mississippi watershed for several years though I lived in northern Illinois and central Wisconsin during that time. It was a strong union region. the way I experienced that scene was as a small fleet owner/operator and I dealt with two trucker strikes, attacks by union drivers-like cutting my fan belts or puncturing hoses, and high fuel prices along with deregulation of the ICC transport rules -- that killed a lot of small business operators like me.

That being said, several of my family members were union members where they worked in California.

I didn't start college until '92 and I am thankful Clinton was in office nearly the whole time I was in school, the student loan program, though an appalling mess (before, then and still is), was greatly improved during his administration. I was the first in my family to get an advanced degree and the only one to have dropped out of school in the 9th grade. Funny thing, the one sibling who didn't get an advanced degree graduated top of their class and is doing the best of all of us business/financially.

[LittleGirl]

87. we're probably close in age

too. I took classes all through the 90s but they were mostly in IT. I don't remember the trucker strikes but that's awful. Sorry you had to deal with that.

[2naSalit]

88. Those trucker days were an experience

that taught me a lot... about people, cultures and a better understanding of the political world to boot. I was pretty well prepared with worldly knowledge by the time I entered academia, my professors were often my age and were appreciative of my thirst for knowledge. If I had been able to go to school and not work, I could have walked out with a double major and earned a doctorate in the time it took to get what I have, fate seems to rule in that part of my world. But I think you may be right, we are probably close in age.

Do you live in that region now?

[LittleGirl]

90. last time

I lived in Indiana was in Indy and left there in late 2012. I live in Switzerland now and will be moving back to our home in Tucson in 36 days. I was last in Indiana in August to visit Mother. She's 84 so doesn't travel anymore and has never seen our home in Tucson. I have a brother there and lots of cousins and distant cousins but if I never get back there again in the winter, I'll be happy. I can tolerate the summers there because of the lake but not much else.

I learned a lot from moving around. I have lived in NH, AL for a few months and AZ for 7 yrs. AZ is my favorite that's why I'm going back. I can't handle this cold climate anymore. I've never been involved in politics but I've already signed up for the Indivisible groups locally and they have 1000 members already and the group just got created a few weeks ago. I didn't vote after Carter lost until Obama. I just avoided politics completely thinking they were all crooks. Obama and 9/11 made me interested again and I'm very excited to get back to the states. I hope I find a job soon so my spouse doesn't have to support me from abroad. He will finish his contract here and join me later hopefully, this year.

[GliderGuider]

4. That's a wise fear.

Dominionism is on the march. This is a very perilous development.

[IamFortunesFool]

6. Yes... I'd elaborate, but it seems you and I have already exhausted this topic on other threads

How's the weather up there in Canada today?

Feels like spring down here... We've only had a few days below freezing all winter. By far the warmest I've ever seen it. I'm sure it's a freak anomaly...just like Fox News says.

[GliderGuider]

7. Yes, we have. Some of us understand what's going down.

The weather up here is as cold as Putin's heart.

[IamFortunesFool]

11. It is a daily exercise to spread the word without becoming even more distraught

Last edited Sat Feb 4, 2017, 10:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I went to an organizational meeting the other night of a local group that is drafting a letter of intent for the tribal council at Standing Rock. Outside of the practical aspects of properly stating our position, hopes, and expectations for being invited onto their land to lend our services to its defense, there was much extraneous talk about the greater political landscape. It is maddening how many cannot and will not see the forest for the trees, so to speak. Here we are on the brink of social violence and revolution, and these pussy-ass liberal "activists" are afraid to have a meaningful conversation about what's going on behind the scenes out of fear that they'll look foolish. It's all fucking decorum and intellectual activism... It's COOL to support the Standing Rock Sioux, LGBT people, BLM, etc... They are busier chronicling their "activism" on Facebook and Instagram than they are actually DOING anything or educating themselves. Ugh...

[GliderGuider]

12. I think that spreading this news is more easily done one on one or on-line.

In face to face groups, there is too much status on the line. Groupthink takes over and other things are found to divert the discussion.

I've been able to educate quite a few people on-line, because there's less fear of losing status.

[IamFortunesFool]

14. Yes, but those people must still ACT on their knowledge...

Last edited Thu Feb 2, 2017, 11:18 PM - Edit history (1)

I, too, have found more willing ears online, but those people we've reached must summon the courage of their convictions if we are ever to actually combat this festering, encroaching evil. That's why I'm also active in person. We cannot only hide behind our keyboards. I know you know this...just venting...

[GliderGuider]

15. The time for decisive personal action will come, but it's not here yet.

Any action we take now is just shouting into the winds of the old order. Not helpful, but probably necessary if just to salvage our own consciences.

Either the adults in Washington will act, and/or the flames of the mobs will ignite. At that point personal action will become significant.

[IamFortunesFool]

22. By definition, somebody is always the first into the breach...

While I am no mans cannon fodder, I do believe that what we're missing most is intellectual leadership that's wiling to get their hands dirty...true revolutionaries. You are correct that there is not yet enough turmoil to expect much from personal action beyond the crushing heel of oppression, but it will take enough of us being so crushed to inspire the rest to action. The key is choosing your battles. It is said that a soldier can only truly perform his duty if he assumes he's already dead. We must not fear the physical consequences of resistance, or it is doomed to fail from inception. It is up to each individual as to when they will be willing to make this grim bet; but in times like these, unless you are prepared to sacrifice everything, you cannot expect to gain anything. Like I said, we must each weigh that valuation for ourselves and our lives, taking into consideration all we have to offer, and all we have to lose. There is no universal prescription..only that the net is increasingly catching more of us.

[GliderGuider]

27. I guess I have to agree with you, however reluctantly.

The conflict is coming, no matter what "our side" does or does not do. So the more prepared we are, the better - even though that will play into the hands of those who want the conflict to be as intense as possible. Other options at this point amount to waiting for the slaughter.

There is going to be a pogrom against Muslims and liberals. Yes, we're one of the targets of this new Holocaust. If or when the pogrom gets underway, our names could even be be broadcast on the radio, like the names of the Tutsis in Rwanda. So a readiness for "fight or flight" could be life-saving.

I know this is a very dark vision of the near future, but it's the end-game that is being wished upon us by Putin's Merry Pranksters. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst. We should make no mistake about it - this is about to become a life or death struggle.

I've been a pacifist for all of my 66 years. This is unbelievably painful for me, even up here in Canada.

[IamFortunesFool]

36. It is what it is

You are correct, readiness is hugely important. As you stated, the coming conflict is unavoidable. We have to learn to welcome it rather than fight it off. While this puts us squarely in the guilty camp of our opposition (insomuch as we then become perpetrators of the build up to war as well), it is also the only option we have beyond waiting for the slaughter as you so succinctly put it. The bottom line is, while I am also a pacifist, the vast majority of our species are still enslaved to their tribal, neolithic genes. Until we, as a species, evolve, we are doomed to conflict. It is in our nature. It is imprinted upon us by hundreds of millions of years of biological evolution and Darwinian selection processes. We are a predatory species, and we did not usurp the food chain and our environment by being passive. Our destiny as a species was born of conflict in the last ice age as we slowly dispatched our hominid cousins and any mega-fauna we encountered as we spread across the globe upon the retreat of the glaciers; and it will end in conflict as we fight among ourselves to decide the primacy of our mind over the habit of our genes. As I have said elsewhere, we will emerge changed, if we emerge at all. Perhaps then we will be ready for peace. Until then, it is a false hope only contributing to one end...perpetual strife. The upcoming war will be the defining moment of humanity like no other before it.

[GliderGuider]

37. Right on the money.

Especially the evolutionary angle.

There's not really much more to say. I wish you the very best of luck in the coming times.

[IamFortunesFool]

39. Same to you, Friend

My name is Adam Coffey, by the way... so if you hear it broadcast, take cover, cause they're coming for you, too.

[GliderGuider]

41. Grin

Paul Chefurka here. Middle name Vladimir Ukrainian heritage on my father's side. If they come for me I'm going to pretend to be Russian.

It's great to meet you. If you're ever over Facebook way, please check in. I'm doing the same thing over there.

[IamFortunesFool]

45. I don't have Facebook or any other social media, actually

My aversion to our current impotent and abstracted culture started years back when TV's started appearing in bars and businesses, and people started playing with their devices instead of talking to each other. I started seeing the current trends develop towards the wold we now live in, and I resolved to never allow myself the indulgence so that I might be able to remain above the fray and beyond reproach. I understand the many arguments for it (Facebook, Instagram, etc...), but my refusal to participate has been one of my ongoing forms of protest against what I consider the corrosive and anti-intellectual forces in our world. This type of forum is as close as I'll get to the black hole of social media our species is spelunking.

That said, by all means use it to your advantage! Spread the word! Tell the tale!

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

55. Spread the word in real time, use your phone to talk to your reps

and don't stop, do it daily, show them that we have the numbers and remind them that we vote.

Lets use all the tools at our disposal.

[GliderGuider]

58. I completely understand.

I'll see you around here, then.

[BigDemVoter]

5. Same here.

The American Christian fundamentalist Taliban is for sure a much, much bigger threat!

[Initech]

8. Agreed, and the Christian terrorists are in charge right now.

With unchecked power, there's no telling what kind of damage they will do under Donald Trump.

[SamKnause]

9. So am I !!!!!!!!!!

They want to turn America into a police state Theocracy run by Wall Street.

[meow2u3]

10. Christianist terrorist will not only persecute religious minorities

They'll also persecute Catholics, Orthodox Christians, and mainline Protestants first chance they get.

It's a tall order to try to convince the Catholics in my neck of the woods that they're being used by Christianist zealots and that they'll be discarded and turned on when the fundies can.

[Dawson Leery]

54. Certainly.

The older Catholics I know do not want to see this.

[meow2u3]

74. I'm one of those older Catholics

Not quite a senior, but about 10 years away.

Those evangelical fundies can take their heretical, counterfeit notion of God and shove it up their heinies!!!!

[Warpy]

81. I'm an older, stomped away in disgust ex Catholic

and I remember all to well what those good Southern Baptists were like when I was growing up in Dixie during Bobby Jones's heyday in Klansville, NC.

Funny, some of the true believer Catholics I met in Boston when I ran away from home were just as bad in their own way.

[Bayard]

78. Then I'm sure

Atheists like me will be hung on the spot. Or stoned.

Christian zealots have killed more people thru history than Muslim terrorists ever thought about. Its always astounding to me how people that claim to love Jesus, have nothing in common with him.

[Willie Pep]

85. I notice people on the Right castigating mainline Christians for being weak.

I guess it is because some of the mainline churches have come out against the racism and anti-immigrant hysteria that is gripping so many people these days.

[Ajji11]

13. Same here.

I'm an Asian-American Christian and recently moved to the South with my family and attended an American Baptist church. I figured Christian ethics and morals + Southern hospitality must equal awesomeness.

I cannot believe how foolish that was. It started happening slowly over the past year. At first it was their children (up to high school) making rude comments, and their parents just taking a BIT too long to stop them. Gradually the parents started to pretend they didn't hear anything. The masks really started coming off after the election when people started ignoring us or looking at us with open hatred when they thought we weren't looking.

The hypocrisy of these so-called "Christians" was so stunning, it made me question my own faith. Perhaps Christianity really is the hoax that everyone says it is.

[Horse with no Name]

17. Me too. I can't even put a fucking bumpersticker on my car

without worry of being assaulted or my property harmed.

[coco22]

19. Yes,they hate everybody and claim to be Christians.

[sarcasmo]

20. Agreed. Add the White Nationalist and it's nightmare inducing.

[agenasolva]

23. I live in a red state and fear for my life on a daily basis

The amount of violence and hate that comes from the Christian right is terrifying. I am scared to leave my house. These people will assault and kill anyone who disagrees with their backward theology of oppression and bigotry

I would feel a million times safer amongst Muslim refugees

[TrekLuver]

25. I'm not afraid of them but they better be afraid of me.

[Ligyron]

70. Now, here we go

That's more like it friend.

[workinclasszero]

28. I'm a Christian

And so am I.

I don't belong to the persecuting, money and power worshiping branch of "Christianity". Their god is Ayn Rand.

Mine is Jesus.

[Chipper Chat]

29. Muslim terrorists:

Eric Rudolph
Dylann Roof
Timothy McVeigh
.
yuppers, gotta keep out those muslim terrists.

[agenasolva]

30. Yep. Christian terrorists vastly outnumber Muslim terrorists

I live in a red, Christian state and the violence and oppression I see on a daily basis makes me sick to my stomach

[Bernardo de La Paz]

33. 6 dead in Quebec City from a white non-muslim Trump licker. . . . . nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

31. Trump wants to focus exclusively on "Islamic Extremist Terrorists". Terrorism is extreme, regardless

[zentrum]

34. Me too.

And it's why some in Muslim countries perceive us as being on a genuine Crusade----I think the Christian Right really is on one: They want to go to war for the Christian "God".

[unitedwethrive]

38. As we all should be. They easily walk among us, are not in any way screened, and because they

espouse christian beliefs, people don't think they are harmful.

[jmbar2]

40. Where are the sane Christians who can debate them on their own terms?

I think only other Christians - sane ones who are truly deep in their faith - can have any influence on the crazies. They need to speak up en mass and stand up against this evil.

[IamFortunesFool]

42. They are eating at the same table of impotence as everybody else who won't stand up and instead

chooses an abstract digital reality over the flesh and blood of this one. Where are the sane Muslims, the sane republicans, the sane police officers, the sane anarchists, the sane activists? None of these groups challenges the pervading herd mentality of their given tribe. They are, the lot of them, too afraid how they will be perceived to bother living a life of conviction. These people will be the first to go when things erupt. They deserve it, too. Fuck 'em.

[Ligyron]

71. I LIKE THIS GUY

Read some of his other posts for some enlightening thoughts.

[IronLionZion]

43. Which is exactly why Trump removed them from the terror watch list

since they don't feel the need to watch any white terrorists anymore.

I'm wary of zealots of all types

[Hayduke Bomgarte]

44. So am I

[Butterflylady]

46. Been saying that for years.

My husband now understands what I meant by being afraid of living in the middle of the state of Pennsylvania where there is a church on every block. We even have churchs within churchs. I know that sounds impossible, but believe me it's true.

[Mad-in-Mo]

47. And yet they claim

to be oppressed and persecuted. They truly are a scary bunch.

[IamFortunesFool]

48. They can't help it... It is what their holy book tells them they are, and they don't question it

And, yes, churches within churches...

They are victims of their own success, and they are dragging the rest of the world down with them.

Fuck 'em!

[Soxfan58]

50. Amen

Brother

[Nitram]

52. Absolutely. Fanatic right wing Xians want to turn this country into a theocracy.

[Dawson Leery]

53. Pre-Renaissance Christian Europe look alot like

The Islamic Middle East.

Strange though how Sam Harris and such treat Islamic extremism as being the only kind throughout history.

Evangelicals/Dominionists want to make us into a theocracy.

[starshine00]

67. so do islamists

I prefer secularists over extremists of whatever branch of abrahamic terrorism is making the news today.

[mitch96]

56. Great lyrics to a song I heard

"I'm not afraid of your bible, I'm not afraid of your koran, I'm not afraid of your torah, I'm afraid of what you'll do in the name of your God"...
Gives me chills..
m

[Megahurtz]

57. So am I.

They are emboldened now, and what's even worse is they are not nice people in the least.

[elleng]

60. "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." -

Sinclair Lewis

[workinclasszero]

64. Because we did not heed the warning

It has become fulfilled prophesy.

[IamFortunesFool]

66. Prophecy is self-fulfilling by nature...

That's what these fuckers don't get!

Religion is a persketchual motion device.... (yes, made up word combining "perpetual" and "sketchy&quot

[malaise]

63. That makes you rational

given the data

[pat_k]

65. Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam (Reuters)

Trump to domestic terrorists: Go blow up some liberals. Go blow up some hypen-Americans. Nobody is on the job to stop you anymore.

[3catwoman3]

68. Why can't people just believe...

...whatever the godammned hell they want and leave everybody else alone? Aarrrgggghhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[IamFortunesFool]

69. Because we are a violent and tribal species

I'm with you!... But the reality is that we won't ever live in that world until we pass through the eye of the needle of some sort of MAJOR threat to our existence as a species... Nuclear holocaust, alien invasion, N.E.O. or comet strike, global crustal displacement, or some other near extinction level event.

[Ligyron]

72. Well' there are too many people...

Almost all our problems are related to overpopulation.

[IamFortunesFool]

73. I couldn't agree more...

That has been a consistent drum I've beaten in many of the things I've posted here and elsewhere for YEARS. WAY too many monkeys fucking the football...

[Mariana]

82. Because part of what they believe

is that God doesn't want them to leave everybody else alone.

[Solly Mack]

75. Yep. Far more of a concern and danger to us are the domestic terrorists

and I do consider anyone wanting christian dominance in America to be terrorists.

Theocrats are terrorists.

[Quixote1818]

76. Of course. Especially since they are more likely to control the strongest military in the world. nt

[Bayard]

77. "Religious Freedom"

I was watching clips of Trump at the Prayer Breakfast thing on Lawrence O'Donnell earlier. He was holding forth about how he would tear down the wall between church and state, repealing the Johnson amendment saying non-profits could not be involved in politics, yada yada.

So like the Supreme Court situation, the Rethugs/Trump are just oblivious to irony. "Religious freedom" only applies to Christians, not Muslims.

[Initech]

89. I am also more terrified of guys with guns than I am of Isis or Boko Harem.