Was this Judge out of line on this one?

[INdemo]

Sure this 13 year old needed to be punished but not humilated..Sticking with the full community service would have been more appropiate?..What do you think?

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/06/23/12376142-judge-13-year-old-girl-gets-lighter-sentence-if-her-ponytail-gets-cut-off?lite

[hobbit709]

1. ?????

[aikoaiko]

2. ?????

[Jackpine Radical]

3. Some of us have unreasonable desires for

some content, or at least a link, to help us figure out what the hell the post is about.

[INdemo]

4. Sorry..I have posted the link...

[hobbit709]

5. Actions have consequences

and evidently this 13 year old wasn't any paragon of virtue.

"KSL said it was given an audio recording by Lopan's mother, Valerie Bruno, of a May 28 hearing on the case and another stemming from a series of phone calls Lopan was accused of making to another teen that included threats of rape and mutilation"

[Arkansas Granny]

6. I think the judge was out of line. Community service and counseling would have done much more good.

I suspect that there are some issues in the behavior of the 13 year old that need to be addressed, but public humiliation is not going to solve anything.

JMHO

[SickOfTheOnePct]

7. Not out of line at all in my opinion because it wasn't mandated

The girl could have kept her hair and fulfilled the full community service obligation.

Humiliating? Yes, but no more humiliating than what she did to a three year old. Sometimes putting the perpetrator in the shoes of the victim is a valuable lesson that keeps behavior from escalating. In most assault cases, that wouldn't be possible, i.e., you can't beat up a bully as part of his or sentence. But cutting her hair? I have no issue with that at all.

[Ian David]

11. What if a judge says, "You can go to jail, or you can toss my salad, right here."

It's not MANDATED, it's just an option.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

14. Easy

Reject the option then file a complaint based on the fact that tossing a salad has nothing whatsoever to do with the crime that was committed.

The option offered was in direct correlation to the crime that was committed, and bottom line, the mom could have rejected the offer and filed a complaint. If she felt so strongly that it was unreasonable and unfair, that's what she should have done.

[Ian David]

18. Agreed on all points. n/t

[aikoaiko]

8. Not out of line

The judge offered it as an option for a lighter sentence and the adjudicated youth and parent chose the option.

Apparently both the delinquent youth and parent are prone to making decisions they later regret. Live and learn.

[Ian David]

12. I don't see it as humiliating. If he made her turn her hair into a necklace and wear it...

... along with a sign that says, "I'm a nasty person," then THAT would be humiliating.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

20. Agree 100% n/t

[madmom]

9. meh, it's only hair, it will grow back. The bigger question IMO is

did the girl learn a lesson from it? Will she be a bully anymore?

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Nnnnnnnope.

[demwing]

13. So the girl learned that cutting off hair

is a legitimate tactic for dealing out punishment. Now the important issue isn't whether cutting the hair was wrong in the first place, but whether revenge is a suitable replacement for justice.

Will she be less likely, or more likely to change her behavior?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

16. She learned what it feels like to have her hair cut off against her will

She was put into the shoes of her victim. Sometimes, that's what it takes to get people to understand how their actions affect others.

You see it as revenge, I see it as a lesson.

[demwing]

21. I see it a lesson as well

the wrong lesson

[SickOfTheOnePct]

22. Well, the mom could have said no and had her daughter do the community service

But she chose to cut the hair.

It's apparent that the apple doesn't fall from that tree.

[Life Long Dem]

15. They took the deal

because they thought it was a better deal than doing all the community service. So they don't get to cry over it later.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

17. +1000

That's what I think, too.

One thing I do wonder about, and this is not a "blame the victim" question, but where was the mom of the 3 year old when this was happening? It doesn't say whether they knew the little girl before, or if they had just met her at the McDonald's or what. But, I guess it is pretty easy to get behind the play equipment and cut hair...only takes a few seconds.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

19. We had a similar thing happen to our oldest daughter

We were living on a military base, and our daughters went to the nearby playground alone (6 & 4). When they came back a bit later, both were crying, and oldest daughter had a chunk of hair, about 3 inches, missiing from the back of her head. A 12 year old had come down the covered slide behind her, grabbed the hair and cut it off.

We went to the parents, and the response was "kids will be kids, no big deal". So, we filed a complaint with the base police, which began the process of a juvenile adjudcation by a panel of base and squadron leadership. When the parents of the 12 year old appeared before the panel, they were still singing the "no big deal" song, and the 12 year old couldn't even bring herself to admit what she had done was wrong and apologize.

Had there been any sign that the parents or the child would do something to change the behavior, it would have been a slap on the wrist...restricted access to BX, etc for the child. Instead, they were given 30 days notice to vacate base housing and live elsewhere. By the time it was over, I think they would have been thrilled with the option to cut off her hair.