There's A Reason Americans Pass By Homeless People In The Street Without A Second Glance

[xchrom]

http://www.businessinsider.com/how-americans-justify-income-inequality-2012-6



Some people's willingness to accept income inequality has everything to do with their perception of choice, Pacific Standard's Tom Jacobs reports.

Psychologists Krishna Savani of Columbia Business School and Aneeta Rattan of Stanford University expand on the topic in a study published by Psychological Science:

"The concept of choice makes people less disturbed by facts about existing wealth inequality in the United States, more likely to underestimate the role of societal factors in individuals’ successes, less likely to support the redistribution of educational resources, and less likely to support raising taxes on the rich—even if doing so would help resolve a budget deficit crisis.
Thinking in terms of choice, we argue, activates the belief that life outcomes stem from personal agency, not societal factors, and thereby leads people to justify wealth inequality."

In layman's terms, we make peace with the idea that some people are destitute and others are well-off because of personal choices, rather than any possible chinks in our economical and societal armor.


*** our belief in 'personal agency' has become something more like a superstition.


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/how-americans-justify-income-inequality-2012-6#ixzz1ycHmanTq

[DCBob]

1. "people are destitute and others are well-off because of personal choices" is RW mentality.

Last edited Sat Jun 23, 2012, 11:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Although it may be true in some situations most often people end up poor and destitute due to the environment they were born into and opportunities not available to them.

[dotymed]

44. Yes, it says in the Bible

(the book that tells Christians what to do) that we have "free choice." So that should justify the suffering...wrong choices...and the wealthy..right choices.

[Bluerthanblue]

47. it also says that the rain falls on the just and unjust-

and what choices did Job make that caused him such suffering?

People like to pick the verses that jibe with their paradigm.

[coalition_unwilling]

67. I'm reminded of a statement from the German philosopher and polymath

Friedrich Nietzsche: ""What really raises one's indignation against suffering is not suffering intrinsically, but the senselessness of suffering." (From The Genealogy of Morals)

Job is my favorite book from the Old Testament, easily hands-down. Job asks, "Why me, Lord?" And God replies, "Don't ask!"

[Bluerthanblue]

82. thanks-

the book of Job is one that troubles many people.

You get it.

[Zoeisright]

90. It also says in the Bible that we are to take care of the poor, homeless,

and hungry. I don't see many people doing that.

[TheDebbieDee]

99. There was a best-selling book a few years ago called "The Secret" that espoused the

same thing: Wealthy people somehow deserved to be wealthy and that those less fortunate somehow deserved the bad things that happen to them.

It's all bull-shit, of course. The facts of the matter is that a person of means is better-resourced to handle and minimize an adverse situation, whereas a person who is 3 or 4 missed paychecks from being homeless feels as though he/she is at the mercy of an adverse situation because they don't have the money to make the situation "go away".

[Raksha]

139. You are so right about that, and it's something people are almost conditioned to ignore.

What I mean is that an adverse situation that is merely an inconvenience to a person with the means to deal with it becomes a crisis to someone like me who is on a fixed income. You can't make the situation "go away" unless you deduct the cost from the rent money--which creates another crisis. Of course there are always the payday loan places with their cutthroat interest rates, but that creates a revolving month-to-month crisis. The people who buy into the myth of "choice" don't understand any of this.

[dotymed]

160. I am sorry that

did not include a sarcasm tag. I really didn't think it was necessary......

[coalition_unwilling]

62. "People are destitute and others are well-off because of God's will" is also

RW mentality, a perverted, self-serving and misleading interpretation of the theology of John Calvin and, to a lesser but still significant extent, Martin Luther.

[Arkansas Granny]

71. And many of them, if not most of them, use the "god's will" argument to justify

not doing anything to change the situation or alleviate the suffering. They definitely pick and choose which parts of the bible to apply to any given situation.

[coalition_unwilling]

77. Not to re-fight the 30 Years' War, but the difference between Protestant and Roman Catholic

positions can be boiled down to the following:

Protestant: Faith and faith alone justifies man in God's eyes. Works are tangential to the question of salvation
Catholic: Faith without works is dead.

So the people who pick and choose parts of the Bible to rationalize their sociopathy, in my experience, come overwhelmingly from the Protestant side of the aisle but base their ethics and morality on a perverted understanding (at best) of Calvin's and Luther's theology.

N.B. I'm an atheist and lapsed Buddhist who fervently hopes, should the Buddhist idea of reincarnation actually prove true, to come back as a flea to bite some rich Repig asshole like RMoney on the ass I know, I know, that's not very Buddhist (or Christian) of me

[liberalmike27]

68. Been Saying That For Years

People believe what they want (about anything) to assuage their consciences, to make it all right for them to keep on, and not do anything. Like the quote from a blog

"I don't want my tax-money going to some lazy, good-for-nothing bum." Belief that follows is, everyone on government assistance is a lazy, good-for-nothing bum. And surely there are a few people who are, and who've made bad choices. There are certainly more who've worked hard, tried to "get a job," as they say, and simply have not been able to get one. A lot have a job, but it doesn't pay enough per hour, or work enough hours, like Wal*Mart's full-time of 28 hours.

SUVs, people drive them, it snows, they say "See, no global warming." Then not another thought occurs to them as they drive 100 miles round-trip in a vehicle that is like bathroom-sized, spending over twice as much in gas. Usually they are aware their parents did it in a smaller vehicle. But no matter--people are there on the media to tell them "No worries, do what you want."

There are a number of other examples--but it isn't important as much as someone just know what it is about, as then you can spot it--and point it out when you hear it. And by the way, let's not discount the media that puts these ideas, these comfortable little lies into their heads. Truth is, a lot of the people who believe this kind of thing aren't really smart enough to figure it out on their own. They are like the Obama anti-gun protestors, when asked what exactly Obama has done (nothing, in fact he's increased gun rights), they have no idea. Not a clue.

[LiberalLoner]

2. Sometimes I believe we barely have any free will choices in life at all.

I think most of it is about brain chemicals, what we were born with, what strata of society we were born into, what was done to us, who raised us and how, what education we were able to get..so much of what happens in our lives is completely out of our control.

[sendero]

3. I think the truth of the matter./...

.... is near the center of the continuum between your point of view and the right winger's POV which is that "it was all my hard work".

A lot like a poker game, half luck, half skill.

[mazzarro]

15. I don't quite agree that it somewhere in the middle

I think the choices one is given stem from their station in life or environment. Most people cannot choose from something that way out of their reach. Rather they choose from options within their grasps or environment even when it takes the intervention of someone else to push them through. That someone has to be in their environment else nothing happens. So I will probably put it at 75% luck and 25% hard work - if at all!

[pscot]

23. Even the ability to focus and "work hard"

is largely a measure of environment. If a person is butt-kicked from day one, it's damned hard to rise above it.

[Turbineguy]

31. Good point.

That said, the changes in our society and economic structure force people to make choices outside their grasp and environment. And very few get it right the first time without some outside help. Because we look to stay within our sphere of competence, we run out of options.

40+ years ago when I was working in the aerospace field, I lost my job. What did I do? I looked for work in other aerospace companies. Without success. Eventually I stopped looking there and did something else. 40 years ago the support structure existed (in many forms) and I was young enough to deal with the change. In California then, Junior College was tuition free and public universities were fairly cheap.

When I see somebody with a cardboard sign (basically begging for money), as a human being, I feel degraded. There but for the grace of God... The republicans have de-learned the lessons of the Great Depression and because they don't see it, in their world view, it can't be happening.

[HiPointDem]

115. not to mention that the table of "choices" itself is laid by larger forces.

[meaculpa2011]

26. Life is a lot like...

Poker. In a short period, say six hours or less of play, luck plays a role of about 80%. Stretch that out to a week of constant play, and luck gets reduced to about 30%. Extend that to a year, and luck accounts for about 5% of the final results.

There's a reason why you see the familiar players at the final tables. It's a combination of skill, concentration, hours of practice and study... and some luck.

[dotymed]

55. And, most often

an inexhaustible "stake," usually inherited.

[sendero]

56. I would..

... agree with that. Being a huge Texas Hold em fan, it is amazing though how your great hand can get decimated at the river

[Brainstormy]

19. free will

If you're on the fence about this, don't read Sam Harris' new book which is titled Free Will, which makes exactly your point. If you're like me, you'll be convinced. Free will is a myth.

[coalition_unwilling]

69. Well put. I hope you get a chance to read the wonderful novel by Tom Wolfe "A Man

in Full". Wolfe explores these themes at a very profound level but tells a damned good story to boot.

[liberalmike27]

83. I Think You're Right

There are a lot of factors, and luck has a whole lot more to do with it, in particular the luck of who are your parents, are they well-off, or OK, do they abuse you, are they concerned with you, do they promote seeking something better than being a burglar, thief, robber, rapist, or murderer, or do they even give a crap??

Even so, a question to ponder--so what, you've made bad decisions, you've screwed up, your head ain't right--do we still allow homelessness. If you're hooked on drug, we set you a-wandering within society with no ability to right yourself, no place to stay, nothing to eat. I say no. But mostly the debate never gets to this stage, as it requires people to face a reality they are unwilling to face.

But some, like Ron Paul fans, are willing to "Let them die, be sick, or whatever." Most are just cowardly people who ignore the whole issue, or what the chain of events leads to.

[Cerridwen]

4. It reminds me of "shunning"

Don't look at that, which "God" has chosen to ignore "lest we be punished" for not following "God's" lead.

Or some such.

Superstition is a good word choice, in my opinion.

[LiberalLoner]

21. Yes. I always stop and give the homeless money, even when they are obviously drunks.

I get a lot of crap from my husband's mother for that. I don't know if it's because she grew up right after the depression, but she worships the rich and thinks they are worthy and hates the poor and blames them for their troubles.

I have the opposite view. My first instinct is to feel compassion for the poor and distrust the rich.

[pscot]

27. I used to keep a handful of change

in my pocket so I could help out. I think the gesture means almost as much as the money. At least it shows that you "see" the person in front of you. It's a small validation.

[LiberalLoner]

28. Exactly! And thank you for doing that. :)

[smirkymonkey]

30. I'm the same way, whatever the reason they are down and out, the fact is that

they are still suffering. It might be mental illness, hopeless addiction or just a few bad breaks in life. In the case that I can't afford to give on a particular day, I still acknowledge them and just say "Sorry, I can't today, but I'll get you next time".

I see mostly the same people in my neighborhood and have gotten to know many of them. They seem like good people for the most part, just down on their luck.

[BrendaBrick]

100. "just down on their luck"...

now that's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time!!! (sadly - and to which I also think is true, btw.)

A quick search turned up this book: http://www.amazon.com/Down-Their-Luck-Homeless-Street/dp/0520079892

Much simpler and easier for others to *chalk up* (aka *shrug off*) one's plight in life as the result of some kind of *character flaw* then to admit how much of an impact luck actually has and plays.

(BTW, Woody Allen's "Match Point" is an excellent example of this: )

[Cerridwen]

37. "My first instinct is to feel compassion"

That would be the biggest difference between "us" and "them".

We go straight to compassion; they go straight to judgement.

[dotymed]

58. You may be liberal,

but you are not a loner.

[LiberalLoner]

92. :) Thank you n/t

[CarmanK]

156. My sister fed the homeless man on the city grate each morning on her way to work.

christians say they believe that only GOD CAN JUDGE, but then turn around and substitute their judgment of others because of the way they look. dress, behave. The whole idea is not whether the person in need is worthy, it is all about what is in YOUR HEART and soul when you give and what we as a society really believe about "all ----being created equal". Ronald Reagan started this societal demonization of the poor as lazy, unworthies, whores in cadillacs. He did it with malice in his heart and $$ in his pants pockets. He began the degradation of our society and democracy which has continued with the ROVES< NORQUISTS< GOP/TPARTY .

[raouldukelives]

5. Homelessness is our answer to mental healthcare.

If one can judge a society by how it treats the least among it I'd say were coming up a tad short. If we could figure out a way to profit from mental illness aside from AM radio hosts we'd be golden but until then "Please stay out of sight of consumers" seems to be our answer.

[dkf]

7. We created some very bad institutions when we did try to take care of them.

I'm not sure we are capable of treating people with mental conditions well. I don't think most people have the patience for it.

[jtuck004]

153. We used to deliver babies with hands that had been in a cadaver and not washed. Mothers died.

We learned that we needed to wash our hands in between study and delivery.

So perhaps we can learn from the experience of others who have gone before us.

[dkf]

161. I still remember the DU post about giving incapacitated women birth control so they can't get

Pregnant when raped.

I don't think we've learned a thing, unless it's how to not let the evidence of abuse become too obvious.

[jtuck004]

162. Evil is never going away, but that's no reason to throw the hands up in the air. n/t

[clang1]

16. +1000 and the prisons n/t

[Iggy]

6. Right. Here's the Disconnect:

I forget the exact number- something like 84% of Americans say they believe
in God, heaven, etc.

OK, so where's the charity, the empathy for our fellow man?

[dkf]

8. When is the last time you invited a homeless person to share your abode?

[sulphurdunn]

10. Yesterday.

How about you?

[Honeycombe8]

13. That's dangerous. nt

[sulphurdunn]

17. Not really.

I know the person. The offer was declined, and I was relieved it was. The point I was trying to make is that we are our brothers keepers or there is no social contract backed by power, and if that is true then there is only corruption and avarice backed by power.

[dkf]

25. So the person made a choice to be homeless?

Well that is ironic.

[LiberalLoner]

43. People in the grip of severe mental illness and/or addictions almost always make bad choices, due to

their disease process. Ask anyone who has some experience with this.

[sulphurdunn]

75. No

The person became homeless due to a series of personal tragedies he did not choose. His only problem is that his circumstances have yet to destroy the last vestiges of his pride.

[Luminous Animal]

102. Some people have a regular, safe & comfortable place to sleep outside free from harassment...

It is generally acknowledge that that space "belongs" to them until they abandon it. That is one reason that some homeless people are unwilling to take shelter inside even for one night.

[airplaneman]

143. I can support the thought it is dangerous to take home a homeless person.

This is a true story. I know a gal who took home a homeless "will work for food" person standing on a street corner with his sign. She had 2 male friends in the car at the time so she was not alone. Her thought was yes I need some help and yes I would like to help someone out. He was a nice guy, did the work, she fed him, and he parted for the day. It turns out he was a serial killer and the police appeared at her house the next day as they were hot on his trial and it led to her house. She decided never to do that again.
-Airplane

[dkf]

22. That is pretty brave of you.

I have to admit I'd be pretty nervous to invite a homeless person into my place. It I knew them and knew they were being evicted with no place to stay then that's one thing. But a stranger off the street? I'm not that trusting.

I wonder how people lose touch with those that care about them to the point that they become homeless and on the street. That is why family is the best resource a person can have.

[JonLP24]

40. Homeless

primarily come from lower classes so family may not be in the best positions if they are lower class as well(likely).

Also they may have lost family members or lost touch w/ family over the years.

Also housed people lose touch w/ family members all the time and that is never thought of as a big deal. Especially those who came from abusive parents.

[raccoon]

50. If and only if the family is supportive. nt

[sulphurdunn]

76. Agreed.

[Honeycombe8]

148. It's not just that they're homeless. I wouldn't invite ANY stranger into my home.

That is very risky. But esp. someone who has nothing to lose would seem to present more danger.

I've read of a nice woman or couple murdered by a homeless person they let stay with them. It didn't happen at first. It was after awhile.

Years ago a woman with Meals on Wheels was raped and murdered in the house she was delivering a meal to.

[LiberalLoner]

29. DKF, I'm curious, which of the traditionally Democratic positions do you embrace? r/o

I've noticed you are not in favor of taxing the wealthy, you post that illegal immigrants are the problem, not the wealthy, and your response to this post is also one generally found by right-wingers.

I guess I'm scratching my head....why are you a Democrat? All the views I've seen posted from you so far have matched up with right-wing positions.

I mean, I know we can be D's without agreeing 100% with the traditional or current D positions on things, it just has me wondering, why are you a D?

What issues attract you to the Democratic party, and what positions of the current Democratic party do you support?

[coalition_unwilling]

73. Ditto. Inquiring minds would like to know. Thank you for putting into words

what had heretofore been my vague but strengthening misgivings.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

107. You refer to "traditionally Democratic positions" and raise a good point especially with any

opposition to progressive taxation and taxing the wealthy.

Please excuse me for asking, but when did favoring or excusing "illegal immigrants" ever become a traditional Democratic position?

Isn't that a more recent position of Third-Way Democrats?

Reagan was a Republican. Wasn't he the Republican President who gave amnesty to illegal aliens? Wasn't that a Republican position?

Illegal aliens benefit the super-rich at the expense of the American working class. Some will make excuses such as "we are all immigrants" while falsely equating earlier immigration which has happened since the 1600's with the current illegal immigration.

If Third-Way Democrats want to embrace and extend Reagan's amnesty, or if other Democrats who have been influenced by their rhetoric or influenced for any other reason to embrace and extend Reagan's amnesty, why should we do so?

When, if ever, did this become a "traditional Democratic position"?

In 1941, FDR rejected the illegal immigration of the Japanese whose first effort was to bomb Pearl Harbor. Neither he nor other Democrats with traditional Democratic values have been in favor of illegal immigration. Why should we?

[LiberalLoner]

110. You have a point there. I guess it's the Dream act etc. I'm thinking of.

[HiPointDem]

117. none is the answer.

[LiberalLoner]

119. That's what I thought. Then why is a right-winger even here?

[HiPointDem]

120. polite.

[LiberalLoner]

122. I don't understand what you mean.

?

[HiPointDem]

124. the poster is polite; doesn't attack other posters or get into flame wars.

[LiberalLoner]

133. Oh, okay! So it's not against the rules to do the right-wing thing if done politely, thanks! :)

[jtuck004]

154. Another side can sometimes make people deal with things their friends won't. That doesn't mean

the other side is correct. But if anything is every gonna change we have to confront such wrongness in the world where you can't just tombstone people who disagree with you. One never knows, you might catch a window open to their mind and cause them to revise their thinking. It is certain that will never happen by avoiding them.

You can learn a lot about how to argue such points from someone with another point of view.

Btw, when arguing with right wingers, it's usually advisable to travel in groups. So you are safe here. There's a reason for their defective conclusions, and they seem to be a frustrated lot, totally unprepared to go much past some rather black and white view of a full blown color world, at least in my experience. Not knowing why, it's best to be careful in such circumstances.

[Rex]

164. Good luck with that one.

I've never seen any. But you don't have to believe in any of that to post here. If that is what you are getting at.

[Iggy]

134. Difference:

I'm not out there claiming to be super Christian, a great believer in God.

let's see ten percent of those people step up first: _then_ I will.

[Rex]

166. Never going to happen.

They would have to put their money where their mouth is...all you do is piss people of when you remind them of how hypocritical they are...like we see...

[Rex]

165. HA!

Good luck with that one, it only stands to piss some off here. Thanks for saying it!

[dkf]

9. Or maybe it's because we expect someone else to take care of them.

We think we have fulfilled our obligations by supporting the idea that the government should provide and that someone who is wealthier than us should do the funding.

[sulphurdunn]

11. That's right.

If I can pay taxes so the "better classes" can get richer off killing women and kids in Afghanistan then they can pay higher taxes to care for the homeless here at home. Why would anyone have a problem with that?

[LiberalLoner]

32. Most liberals that I know of, don't have a problem with that at all.

[joeglow3]

36. You just showed how you think OTHER people should take care of them

Sad.

[LiberalLoner]

39. I don't agree. We as individuals are not trained to take care of mentally ill or

people with active addictions. There needs to be a medically safe environment for those people, with medical treatment for them.

You can't pick up a heroin addict or alcoholic off the street or someone with raging schizophrenia and expect everything to work out great just by acting as an individual.

That's what we have government for - to tackle big problems that are too big for one individual to handle.

So we as individuals pay money towards the hospitals and centers that CAN help these people.

[JonLP24]

49. That is a great point

but one thing that should be pointed out is that less than half of homeless suffer from addictions -- 40%(though I theorize most of those have addictions because they are homeless, not easy to live under a bridge).

Only a quarter is mentally ill.

I agree there should be resources and help for those in those categories but we should also address the #1 cause of homelessness -- the lack of affordable housing.

[sulphurdunn]

132. When I was a kid

there were places called skid roads. Slid roads had places called flop houses, usually rundown old hotels. Skids and flops were at the very bottom of the social order. However, people down on their luck could afford to stay in them for about nothing. The soup kitchens and missions provided hot meals. They've all been demolished and replaced by highrise condos and designer boutiques for the very wealthy. Now we have homeless shelter that even the homeless avoid.

[sulphurdunn]

130. I'd be happy to take my contribution

of the Pentagon budget to do it. And, I'd be happy to insist OTHER people do it too, especially the ones who've profited the most from homelessness.

[liberalmike27]

94. Of Course the Government

Should set into place a program to help homelessness. It'd create some jobs running the place--there is plenty of large-space real-estate, old grocery stores and such they could retrofit to the purpose.

What you are doing is "individualizing." You refocus the argument on an individual, thinking if they won't put up a homeless guy that might have psychological problems, or be an axe murderer, then you've won, dust off the hands.

Everyone should be aware of this practice. If you're winning an argument and someone asks you "Well what do you do for a living." It inevitably leads to them looking for an area to attack you personally with. Keep things focused on the argument, as what one does personally when arguing about larger issues is irrelevant.

[LiberalLoner]

95. The person you are addressing seems to espouse only right-wing talking points. If you look at the

history of posting you will see. I have asked him what Dem positions he is in favor of, no reply. I suspect he supports none of them.

[Marr]

96. Political celebrity?

That's all I can imagine. Some are like the political version of Kim Kardashian fans.

[liberalmike27]

136. Yes

That was who I was addressing. Just be wary of that technique.

It comes up in a lot of ways. If you are unemployed, downtrodden, don't put up the homeless in your back-room, or whatever, somehow you don't get to talk. You feel it, because suddenly this issue you've been discussing, is turned as a gun, back on your personally. But we weren't really discussing putting crack-heads, or mentally ill people in your bedroom,so you are "allowed" to discuss the matter. We were talking about putting an effective government program in place to deal with our homeless population.

Sometimes you'll talk about charity, they will say "What have you given to charity?" Suddenly they are attacking you, because you can't afford to donate, as they can, so once again, the object is to disallow your commentary, to invalidate your opinion. I'm sure there are psychological names for this, but I call it individualizing, and I will have none of it. I can be a grade A f**k-up, but I am still allowed an opinion.

[Raksha]

140. I call it personalizing, which amounts to the same thing.

It's a favorite troll tactic and I know that, but it's still so easy to get sucked into it. I guess that's because most people react emotionally or out of guilt, which kicks in automatically before you are even aware of it. It isn't necessary for the troll to know what any individual might feel guilty about. It's safe to assume we all have SOME failings and have made some bad choices we are ashamed of. All the troll needs to do is to activate that guilt to derail a discussion. So it's a good idea to remind yourself periodically, "I can be a grade A f**k-up, but I am still allowed an opinion."

[chervilant]

12. Yeah, right...

I have CHOSEN to be un- or under-employed for four years. I have CHOSEN to live with a childhood friend, whose anxiety disorder and vociferously denied chronic depression result in inexplicable, frightening rages. I have CHOSEN to be in a family marred by relationship violence, alcoholism and sexual abuse. I have CHOSEN to have a measurable IQ over 140.

Yeah, that's exactly what I have chosen...

[liberalmike27]

86. Measurable IQ

Isn't that redundant? I keep hearing that phrase. IQs tend to be measurable.

Is there an unmeasurable IQ? Mine is right at 140, measured a couple of times, maybe three. Once it was 139, so I guess my brain was slacking that day!

Still, IQ has very little to do with success I think. EQ however (emotional quotient) has a lot more to do with it.

I said on FB the other day "Knowledge leads to cynicism, I think." A friend appropriately replied "Yea James, that's why ignorance is bliss." Sometimes I envy dumb asses.

[chervilant]

106. Thank you so much

for JUST the response I hoped to see!

First of all, I was being flippant about 'measurable' (not in the least because we ALL learn in different ways and at different paces, but we LEARN nevertheless).

Second, I was specifically thinking of the apropos old homily: "Ignorance is bliss" (thanks for the quote), which is just another way of saying that anti-intellectualism will always have a niche market among those who feel intimidated by 'measurable' IQ.

Furthermore, those of us who are outliers on the 'intelligence' bell curve tend to face ostracism--if we're 'too smart,' our intellects are perceived as egoism. If we're 'too dumb,' we're 'special.'

Finally, sadly, (despite my sincere efforts to mirror my interviewer's language and mannerisms) my intellect has become a handy excuse for asserting that I am "over-qualified" and "likely to move to a better job," making it a waste of time for anyone to train me. Thus, a gift of the ability to learn rapidly, and retain information, is yet another negative strike against me, especially to the conservatives among my friends and family.

[barbtries]

14. no kidding.

my sister is a wonderful person, but she has a real blind side when it comes to poverty. it grieves me. this post just came after a recent encounter i had with her which reinforced my belief that she has been brainwashed, perhaps to a great extent, by right wing radio and probably cable tv.
a few months ago i got a chance to go to NYC with a co-worker. i kept giving beggars money; she chastised me for it. i finally told her why i always give beggars money: because that could be me. there but for fortune and all that...i don't know if she agrees with that, but at least she understood that i had my reasons.

&feature=colike

[mmonk]

18. Saw this artcle posted on Facebook this morning and shared it.

[KG]

20. autoxchrom DURec

[turtlerescue1]

24. Our daily lives overtake our ability to look around.

Long ago there was a short novel titled "Been Down So Long It Looks Like Up".

We don't become aware by choice, we become aware by tripping over the log.

My short-lived homeless experience was due to my vanity to not accept help from my friends. In fact my first night along the river, before cellphones existed, three friends showed up with steaks and ice-filled coolers. Later found the local "population" of homeless, was immediately "taken in" and "clued in". The negative rhetoric of "the homeless" exists, but are few in numbers- do wonder if this is due to how they feel is a way to endure. Never found any who were homeless by choice if given other options.

Methinks these may be freer than those of us blinded by our lives, what makes us contented, what we lust after, and how we see our importance on this baby blue planet. "How much do we really need?"

There was a church who wanted to be part of furnishing a place to sleep. BUT there are both Fire regulations and Health Codes, proved to be a deterrent to the idea. There was even issues if someone wanted to park their vehicle in the church parking lot. Foolishness.

[LiberalLoner]

33. +1

[ck4829]

34. The people at the top get loopholes, the people at the bottom get vicious circles

[turtlerescue1]

89. Truer words were never written!

[GarroHorus]

35. I mostly ignore them because the majority are scamming

I know for a fact that somewhere between half and three quarters of the "homeless" people I see are not truly homeless.

The real homeless people get chased off from high traffic areas by these scammers, too.

There are a few legitimately homeless people I see and those I will help, but the vast majority are not homeless and are not in need.

[SemperEadem]

52. I'd like to see a link to your facts

being that your declaration of fact is so strong.

[GarroHorus]

63. Personal experience

And that was all I related. Note the words in my post "that I see".

Personal experience -A corner by a train station in the city. A guy with crutches acting like he has psychological issues. Saw the same guy two days earlier walking fine with crutches in hand. Saw a legitimate homeless person same corner a few days after the guy acting like he has problems. Vietnam vet in a wheel chair. Legitimately homeless. Gave him money.

Vietnam Vet is there for several mornings. I give him money each day. Not much, but something and hopefully somebody sees me doing it.

After that, same guy with crutches on that corner. Found the Vietnam Vet three corners over where there is a lot less traffic. HE told me some guy chased him off from his other spot.

I've seen several instances likef this around the city. The scammers chase off the real homeless people from the best spots.

[AlbertCat]

70. Personal experience

anecdotal evidence is useless.

[GarroHorus]

72. Anecdotal evidence is 100% legitimate in my post

My post was relating my own experiences and why I ignore the majority of "homeless" people. the reason is simple, most of those people are not homeless at all but are horning in on the areas where truly homeless people could get the most help the quickest.

If my post was trying to make a broad statement about everybody's experiences with "homeless" people, then yes, anecdotal evidence would be everything. But if you read my post, I was only relating personal experience and where personal experience is concerned, all you have is the anecdotal.

[EFerrari]

79. You seem really perturbed that some poor people might be getting a dollar

they don't deserve.

You are making a broad statement that amounts to, the homeless people you see aren't really homeless, they're scammers Which is bullshit.

[GarroHorus]

101. You seem pretty pertured that somebody is skeptical of alleged "homeless" people.

Some high traffic corners in Chicago are worth a couple hundred per day to these scammers while the real poor people are chased off by them.

[EFerrari]

103. Your concern has been noted.

[GarroHorus]

112. As has yours.

[EFerrari]

118. My friends at DU know that I have worked

in homeless advocacy. You, on the other hand, have made ridiculous claims in some kind of strange attempt to characterize homeless people as fakes.

Which is exactly what the wingnuts say about poor people, come to think of it -- they don't deserve help. Well done.

[GarroHorus]

126. These are not poor people

If you want to help poor people, do what I do, Donate to organizations designed to help poor people.

Handing out money on the street does as much good as flushing it down a toilet.

[EFerrari]

127. And now you compare poor people to toilets.

Nice.

[GarroHorus]

129. No, I'm comparing scam artists to toilets

You appear to be an unwitting victim of scammers.

[EFerrari]

131. Not in the least. But thank you

for giving such a thorough explanation of your opinion of the homeless.

[GarroHorus]

138. I donate to organizations that help the homeless

Giving money to scam artists on the streets does absolutely nothing to help the homeless.

[Zoeisright]

91. I see. So in your "personal experience"

you know EVERYTHING there is to know about every single homeless person you've ever seen.

What a bunch of bullshit.

[GarroHorus]

98. It's pretty easy to tell

If you see them constantly on a high traffic corner, they are scamming.

[TheKentuckian]

108. You asserted "fact" and by doing so you are basing everyone's reality on your anecdotes

You are entitled to your opinion "the majority of the "homeless" are not homeless at all" and perverted that opinion into the universal area of fact, which is not supported at all.

Words mean something.

[GarroHorus]

113. I asserted fact because it was factual. n/t

[DocMac]

145. Did you follow the scammers home?

Did you witness their great wealth?

[GarroHorus]

147. Didn't need to. n/t

[D23MIURG23]

152. No, its a dishonest assertion with inadequite supporting evidence.

You can use an anecdote to backup a claim that one person you met was scamming people by pretending to be homeless.

If you want to assert that most are, then you need statistical evidence. But you knew that already, didn't you?

I don't know what people say to obvious trolls these days at DU because I've been inactive for a couple years. We used to say "enjoy your short stay".


Enjoy your short stay GarroHorus.

[SemperEadem]

168. personal experience is opinion, not a measurable fact to anyone

but the person with the opinion. It still doesn't stand for fact for anyone else. It only stands as opinion and that's all.

for it to be fact, it needs to be corroborated by other, indirect means.

I can say "the sun is green and that's a fact because I wear blue lenses" all day long, but that doesn't make it so.

[EFerrari]

53. There are hundreds of thousands of homeless people in the United states.

According to HUD's July 2010 5th Homeless Assessment Report to Congress, in a single night in January 2010, single point analysis reported to HUD showed there were 649,917 people experiencing homelessness. This number has increased from January 2009’s 643,067. The unsheltered count increased by 2.8 percent while the sheltered count remained the same. Also, HUD reported the number of chronically homeless people (persons with severe disabilities and long homeless histories) decreased one percent between 2009 and 2010, from 110,917 to 109,812.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness#Tracking_and_counting_homeless_people

And that is almost certainly an under count.

Please stop spreading misinformation about the homeless.

[GarroHorus]

64. YTes, there are

And they are abused by scammers in every big city.

The scammers are in the high traffic areas. the legitimately homeless people are bullied and chased off by the scammers.

[raccoon]

54. And you know this for a fact how? nt

[GarroHorus]

65. See my response above.

If you want to find legitimately homeless people, they will not be in the high traffic areas.

[Bluerthanblue]

60. I know for a fact you don't see half of the truly homeless-

You may think you can distinguish who is 'truly homeless' and who is 'scamming'- but you are kidding yourself.

I'm glad you are willing to help those you deem worthy, but you are wrong to think you "know" for a fact who is truly in need and who isn't.

Working with the homeless is more than eye-opening. It is life changing.

[GarroHorus]

66. It's easy

If they are in a high traffic area like right outside a train station, I ignore them.

If they are in an area of the city with less traffic, I get to know them and help them.

They get chased away and bullied by the scammers.

It happens all the time. The people who really need the help cannot get near the high traffic areas for very long.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. it isn't easy-

Your attempt to justify thinking that you can tell who is really deserving and who isn't is just a way trying to feel ok about seeing people whose reality makes you uncomfortable.

Is it really 'easy' to stand out in public humiliating yourself -for the prospect of what? A handful of change, a few dollars? The scorn and revulsion that people toss out at you? Being told to 'move on' by the police, the pleasure of people suddenly looking at ANYTHING rather than having to make eye-contact with you?

A few months ago a "homeless person" and I were discussing the fact that one of the local common places for people to stand and ask for money was being continually harassed by the police- The owners of the shopping plaza were issuing restraining orders against people standing near the parking lot area.

He asked what 'good choices' did he have? He COULD make money selling drugs- he COULD resort to stealing and burglary- both of which he pointed our are against the law. something he wasn't going to do if he had any other options-... having to resort to standing with a cardboard sign asking people to give him money/food/help isn't something what he wanted to do- but was instead his 'best' option. Believe it or not, like it or not, the fact is There is no work for many people-

Ask yourself this- if you honestly had a good alternative, would panhandling and living on the streets be something you would willingly CHOOSE as your life? I sincerely doubt it.

[coalition_unwilling]

81. Before I put you on Full Ignore, I only wanted to applaud

your amazing powers of Extra Sensory Perception in being able to discern the 'truly homeless'. What a load of bullshit.

[mainer]

85. McDonald's coupons work, if you're afraid of addicts or scammers

Although I do remember one journalist who gave McDonald's coupons to a number of beggars on a busy street, and he later found those coupons were tossed away in disgust because no one really wanted the money to buy food.

[GarroHorus]

114. bingo

Homelessness is a government problem.

Pushing it off as a problem individuals should be doing something about only exacerbates the real problem and puts money into the hands of undeserving people who are not poor or homeless.

[kentuck]

38. Sometimes homeless people piss me off...

...like when they choose to stand on a very busy corner with a right hand turn that people rush to get thru and you can't stop for fear of getting rear-ended by a driver in a hurry. It's like they don't want my money...

[treestar]

41. We may not be able to do much personally

We want a society that takes care of homeless people.

By ourselves, we can't do much.

[newthinking]

155. Exactly.

[AlbertCat]

42. You're on your own, buddy!

That's the American way.

Over 18 and still living at home? SHAME!

25 years old and you aren't on your way or don't have your own "career"? SHAME!

30 years old and you don't have your own house and car? SHAME!

And..

All that crap you "learned" in high school is useless. You need to only learn from work! School is for kids. Right?
Quality means nothing. Art (and high brow stuff) is for kids too and costs too much anyway. Just get 'er done as cheaply as possible. Right?
Everyone can be on top! If you aren't, or don't even want to be on top (gasp!), there is something wrong with you. Right?

There's no sense of community. After all,"community" is the source word for COMMUNISM!!!!!(which apparently is the same thing as Socialism... all that crap you learned in HS, y'know... like the definitions of words). But just buy a gun or 2, or 3, or a dozen. They will keep you safe and secure.

WE ALONE ARE NUMBER ONE! No other country on Earth has what we have! Right?

[LiberalLoner]

45. We are a very sick society right now. Let's hope we can heal ourselves.

[jp11]

74. Exactly.

[LuvNewcastle]

46. Guilty consciences

People project their own faults onto the homeless. They think about how they could have become homeless if not for certain people or events in their own lives and it scares the hell out of them. Also, there is a common belief that God takes care of his own and that homeless people must have somehow displeased God. I call it the backside of Karma -- if the Universe dishes out good to those who do good things, then it makes sense that bad things happen to people who do bad. For many, ignoring homeless people is like whistling past the graveyard.

[SemperEadem]

48. it is competely a puritanical mindset

that it's only because one has moral failings that one is not prosperous and nothing outside of that person's moral structure can bear any blame to said person being destitute, sick, jobless, homeless, etc. Which is why, being that this country was founded by puritans and their flavor of xtianity that we see this ingrained, inculcated notion alive and kicking today.

"I can't relate, so it must not be", is pretty much their creed.

If one calls themselves a christian and if one believes in Jesus and if one believes what He said is true and if one believes that the bible is true, then one is commanded to take care of the less fortunate. He didn't command His followers to "sit smugly and pass judgment on their condition or how they got there".

[WingDinger]

51. Hypervigilance. Thats how.

Right wingers sell dog eat dog. They sell that you BETTER take care of family and friends. Period. When you are out for #1, you disregard all in the outgroup. Hunker down. THOSE PEOPLE, chose their fate, so you can look away. It is your self deception, so as to do what you are choosing. Mix that with Calvinism, and you have let them eat nothing.

Thing is, even Neanderthals cared for sick or disabled family and group. The really sick thing is, the system has been modified so that, the hoops you must jump thru for help, make you lie, misrepresent, obfuscate. Then, those predisposed to think all poor are conmen and scammers that PREFER that to working, have proof. This is no accident. Right wingers prefer the gauntlet to be so harsh, that misery and pain are the prerequisites for getting help. While right wingers talk about the help being a trap, that entombs the poor, that is cuz they wanted it that way. They insisted on it. Once you are that low, respectability is nigh impossible. Just as a society cannot succeed without infrastructure, so too cannot a person gain, without many systems in place. Right wingers think it fine, that it takes ALL DAY to get that meal. They call that adequate.

[Bluerthanblue]

57. what choice do we have in the family we are born into?

I think people have a need to fool themselves into thinking 'we' have control of our lives because the reality that there is SO much which is out of our control is just too terrifying.

The fact that a 'luck' or 'fate' determines a huge part of our life is not easy to accept. Watching someone do everything 'right' and not succeeding just isn't acceptable. It undermines the notion that we can be/do/have anything we 'choose'.

We are so stuck in the concept that 'we' are in control, that when bad things happen to us we look for ways to blame ourself for whatever befalls us rather than understanding that so much of living is unpredictable and we cannot avoid suffering and struggling.

It's much more comfortable to look for ways to blame people for the suffering they are experiencing, because it allows us the illusion that WE can avoid their fate. Understanding that there but for the grace of _______ go any one of us is not an easy thing to accept and deal with comfortably.

this is something i've been coming to understand and trying to accept.

[coalition_unwilling]

84. Awesome post. Wish I could DU Rec it. Can't rec it highly enough - n/t

[LiberalLoner]

97. +1 Please consider making this an OP? Please? :)

[Raksha]

141. I have nothing to add to that except "you're right"!

There is really so little we actually have a choice about in our lives, and it's a very hard thing to look at. So people have perfected the art of blaming the victim, as a way of denying the possibility that the next victim will be them.

[GeorgeWW3]

59. I gave twenty dollars to a guy near a stoplight

he was about 65 and I am 58. He took the money and said: "Do you know how long this much money will feed me and my dog? Four days." I assume he was bragging rather than complaining but I know twenty bucks meant absolutely nothing to me and I'm by no means rich. I think a thousand dollars is a lot of money but twenty bucks means nothing because at best it will keep the wolves away for one more night.

[NC_Nurse]

61. Of course, when these things happen to THEM, well "that's different".

gotta love that

[coalition_unwilling]

80. Emphatic K&R! - n/t

[mainer]

87. Don't randomly hand out dollar bills; give to a homeless shelter instead

You can help the most people with the certainty that the money will actually do some good.

[mzteris]

88. fear, shame, guilt . . .

I think those are more likely reasons. Though, I'm sure there are those who believe "they brought it on themselves".

However, thought and behaviour are complex and generally consist of an amalgam rather than one single component.

[UglyGreed]

93. I find it funny

with all these replies to this thread I posted my story in another thread and have not even received a welcome to DU


Ron Paul made millions selling racist Newsletters to get out 98 thousand dollars of debt. After his 2008 run he bought a six million dollar home on the beach in TX and bought Rand Ayn Paul a senate seat. Nice man.

I became disabled at the age of 26 in 1991. This happened on the job while I waiting to join the Carpenters Union. After a few major surgeries I have not been able to return to work. Mean while my WC lawyers told me I could not collect SSD while collecting Workers Comp. I tried to get retrained but was told my wife made too much money, 20 grand a year at the time. I tried to get SSD once again but because of a sixty day time limit I can never get help.

I was harassed by the carrier and cut down to barely nothing and would have to wait months for a court hearing to get any treatment approved. The insurance carrier would go around to neighbors and told them I was a fraud and asked them to spy on me which they were happy to do so. I settled the case in 1998 since I could not deal with the stress of being watched and having my neighbors call me a fraud and spread rumors about me to the point that no one associates with my family. Never mind the chronic pain I have endured still since the accident. Now I suffer from MS and of course I still can not get any type of financial support.

My only blessing is that my wife and stood by side all this time, even though my relatives and her's have abandoned us and our children. But I'm so glad to this hate filled little Leprechaun can collect while having millions of dollars. Before anyone says I'm looking for sympathy, no I'm just telling my story and never gotten a dime or any help in my entire life.

Just sayin'

[jwirr]

104. Yesterday saw a woman who appeared to be homeless hunting cans from the garbage at a store.

When I asked about her it turns out she is not homeless but has many problems. Just searching for cans to get some money. Which in itself is bad enough. Felt sorry for her. Made my homelessness on someone's couch look a lot less disasterous.

[EFerrari]

105. How is your search going?

[jwirr]

109. Still looking but they have put me on the waiting lists for all the low-income housing in the area

for what that is worth. Years ago there were priorities that would bounce you up on the list but I do not know if that is still a rule.

One of my grandsons as offered me a bedroom so I will be okay but I am afraid that is jumping from the frying pan into the fire. He has custody of his two children and I am afraid he will ask for more than I can handle. Would love to help him but afraid of being his enabler.

[EFerrari]

116. Moving in with two kids sounds like taking on a lot. n/t

[jwirr]

121. Yes, I love to baby sit but I want to have my own time also. Oh, well at least now I have an option.

[EFerrari]

123. What did you finally think of the student idea?

(I started babysitting about as soon as I could hold a baby bottle, so if my boys ever have kids, they're going to need to put on ad on craigslist because I'm RETIRED. lol)

[jwirr]

146. I talked with my daughter and we realized that I would need to ask for too much for a student to

be interested. The real problem is my low retirement income from Social Security and SSI. Without someone else paying the rent and me helping with the utilities I real cannot afford to stay in this apartment.

[TheKentuckian]

111. I figure mostly what is going on is they can't look the homeless in the eye

because instinctively they know how far they are away if the creek rises and are unwilling to do shit about the situation because the dynamics that lead millions into poverty also lead an insignificant few to riches, if not full on wealth and they think that through some personal specialness and hard work it will be them.

They can't eye the homeless out of fear. Fear that they too can come to such a low pass and fear of their darker nature that knows they would stand on the shoulders of the homeless to stay above them. Besides the homeless mean their is lack (no matter how artificial) and that means there is a floor on their home values.

[DeSwiss]

125. K&R

[center]

"The poverty of our century is unlike that of any other. It is not, as poverty was before, the result of natural scarcity, but of a set of priorities imposed upon the rest of the world by the rich. Consequently, the modern poor are not pitied... but written off as trash. The twentieth-century consumer economy has produced the first culture for which a beggar is a reminder of nothing." ~John Berger

[/center]

[leveymg]

128. Whether we help a needy person or turn away is one of the real choices we really still have.

More so than expressing our will through party politics, surely.

[EFerrari]

135. It really is.

Some time shortly before my marriage blew up and I left San Francisco, I tried something different in our neighborhood. We were out by the beach in San Francisco and there were a number of homeless folks that lived there -- either in their cars or in the park nearby or I don't know where but they lived there as surely as we did.

So, I tried to keep track of just three of them and tried to get our block to "adopt" them in a way. One of them was a young man in his early 30s who had a drug problem that he tried to shake when he had the energy. Another was estranged from his family in the East Bay but he'd come around asking for work. The third was a man about my age but who looked a lot older and who hung out in a wheel chair near the streetcar turnaround. K has use of his legs but has other mobility problems that just make using a wheel chair a lot easier for him.

It worked and much better than I though it would. Enlisting the few people we actually knew on our city block, Young 30ish Man was helped into rehab, not once but the three times it took for him to get his balance. People on the block made calls and gave him rides or cab rides out to the clinic and didn't come down on him too hard when things went south the first few times. Estranged guy got enough work to finally make up with his family. Man, he had a temper and he was a drinker. But, he was also a hard worker and eventually, I think being able to talk to all these strangers nudged him in the direction of wanting to talk to his kin. Wheel chair K stayed in the neighborhood but at least now people are keeping an eye on him in case something comes up that he might need some help with or, that they need some help with because he sees everything that happens on that block.

Looking back, it was such a small effort. But it was what we could do and it felt good to do that. More, it made our block more liveable for everyone and in a city, that's a good thing.

[leveymg]

142. Blessings. Made any headway on the summer program?

Did the School Board lady ever get back to you?

[EFerrari]

150. School board lady blew me off but there are 4 others.

Made an appointment with the school principal for Thursday. He sounds like a good guy.

[Odin2005]

137. It's a psychological defense mechanism called the "Just World Theory".

People are afraid that they will end up just like "Those People", so they create a whole bunch of rationalizations to assure themselves that they will never be like "Those People".

Often this is fused with religiously and philosophically derived justifications for inequality, like Karma and Caste in South Asia.

Oh, and I myself am a strict determinist. IMO I find dislike of Determinism the result of it being damaging to the defense mechanism.

[NYC Liberal]

144. I for one would rather be wrong and inadvertently give a scammer a few bucks

every so often, than turn a blind eye completely while trying to judge whether every homeless person is "legit" or not.

[freshwest]

149. There are such things as 'forced' choices. Which end up not really being 'choices.'

[Phlem]

151. I'm not destitue

but barely making ends meet. It's paycheck to paycheck for me because of outsourcing. Yet I feel horrific to not be able to help the people who live in the "street's and outside".

I don't see them as a stain, I'm heartbroken that that's the circumstances they live with and that a lot of us are one step away from joining them.

I think it takes pure evil to think otherwise.



-p

[Spitfire of ATJ]

158. I give the homeless clean blankets.

You'd be surprised how much it helps.

If you have extra in your home you can too. Otherwise, you can buy them in thrift stores, clean them and then pass them on. Often you can just hand a folded one trough your car window. It's not much, but it's often more than the church will do.

[w0nderer]

159. k&r for reading later n/t

[Rex]

163. Willingness has nothing to do with it.

It is the understanding that we are powerless to stop it from happening. This country will continue to have scandals created by the super-rich that destroy families and cause them to end up dislocated from their jobs and homes. THAT is what we have come to accept - a corrupt system that favors the rich and punishes the poor. THAT is America.

[Fire Walk With Me]

167. Denial. "Haha, that can't happen to me! I don't choose it!"

[OneGrassRoot]

169. friggin "rugged individualism"

I really appreciate this article. Been coming back to it for a few days here, there and everywhere.

"...we make peace with the idea that some people are destitute and others are well-off because of personal choices, rather than any possible chinks in our economical and societal armor."

We're also more inclined toward the whole "rugged individualism" approach, rather than look at the whole of our society. That's easier in many ways; it's how people turn away and focus on "their own." I say it's a monumental failure in personal responsibility. If we are part of a community or society, we have a responsibility toward the whole of it. The people who spout off about personal responsibility do so in a way that is very short-sighted -- and often hypocritical -- imho.