So: What do we do about the fact that small-town and rural Americans are so out of touch

[Recursion]

with ordinary Americans?

What do they need to do to reach out to the huge majority of us who are tired of supporting their way of life, and think they need to stop whining? What should they do to address the bubble that has led the 20% of Americans who live in small towns to think they are somehow normative? How can they bridge that gap?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Since when are small-town and rural people not "ordinary Americans"?

Urban people live in their own bubbles, and are just as clueless about living in small towns and farms as rural people are about what life is like in a big city. Rather than sneering and taking a divisive view of things, why not try to figure out what rural and urban people have in common?

[Recursion]

3. They're about 20% of the country. That's not "ordinary"

Also, the other 4/5ths of us subsidize them pretty heavily, and we're kind of getting sick of it.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. Agriculture in those areas provides cheap food for the rest of us.

You might find it enlightening to actually visit a farm and find out how they operate, what very hard work it is, and how minuscule the profit margin for family farms has become. The people who grow the corn and the wheat and the other agricultural products that we rely on for food have legitimate concerns that deserve attention, too. If that 20% ditched their farms and moved to the city, what would you eat, and how much would it cost?

[cwydro]

70. Thank you. nt

[JimBeard]

73. They also get cheap insurance. No more direct subsidies but

Last edited Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)

extremely cheap insurance. I retired farming last year. Farmers here vote republican year after year and I don't see them changing anytime soon. They have been voting Republican since Reagan. A waste of time to go after them for votes and expensive.

[treestar]

76. With illegal immigrant labor

And subsidies

[handmade34]

96. ...

yup

[brush]

130. Ahhh . . . don't agribusinesses produce most of the food for the country now?

Last edited Wed Nov 30, 2016, 02:33 PM - Edit history (1)

Hats off to family farms but aren't their numbers shrinking every year trying to compete with the Archer Daniels Midlands of the world?

[JimBeard]

145. Yes the family farms are huge and use government subsidized insurance.

And yes, one of the Dairy's use undocumented labor and flaunt that fact.

[pipoman]

27. LOL...yeah, the other 4/5 will be eating each others refuse, eh?

If you live in an urban area there is about 3 days worth of food available per person if the trucks stop....you do know food doesn't spring forth from semi trucks no?

Really, have you learned nothing from the last 3 weeks?

[spin]

61. I hope you are not saying that because you live in a large urban center you are ...

superior to and better educated than people who chose to live in a small town or a rural setting.

[mchill]

226. Sounds like that

[hfojvt]

68. about 28%

Since the census includes another 8% living in "urban clusters" of 2,500 to 50,000 people - presumably small towns. At least the ones from 2,500 to 20,000 are small towns.

And, of course, many people in the urban areas, myself included, grew up in small towns and much prefer small towns to urban areas, even though we find ourselves in an urban area.

It certainly is not "normal" compared to an urban area. For one thing, there is a lot less crime. South Dakota had a crime rate of 1,905 per 100,000 a violent crime rate of 185.6 and a homicide rate of 2.6. Whereas 19 cities in the US had a violent crime rate that was over 1,000.

Of course, South Dakota's violent crime rate is higher because the city of Sioux Falls has a rate of 212 and brings the average up and Rapid City brings the average up even more.

[StevieM]

241. I think it is 21 percent rural and small town, 29.9 percent urban, and 49.1 percent

suburban and exurban.

http://www.ruralhome.org/storage/research_notes/Rural_Research_Note_Rurality_web.pdf

The exurban population is interesting. I wonder what portion of the 40 percent living in the suburn/exurban parts of the country are living in the exurbs?

[Kilgore]

102. As a rural resident, I consider myself delightfully abnormal then.

[11 Bravo]

221. What a remarkably foolish and short-sighted statement.

[Horse with no Name]

8. the only way you will get rural America is to remove reproductive rights from our platform

that is ALL the women think of....those poor poor babies....

I have lived in rural Texas almost my entire adult life.....I know what I am speaking of.

[marlakay]

44. My daughter is in Texas in the military

They voted for Hillary but she told me today it is Trumpland and because her husband is one of the commanders of the base she stays silent unless its a close friend on how she feels.

[Maru Kitteh]

56. By which of course they mean the WHITE babies

Assholes. We've become a nation of crotch-sniffers.

[spin]

63. Don't forget to dump the idea to pass new gun bans and limits on the number...

of rounds a magazine can hold while you are at it. Gun control that goes beyond logical and reasonable ways to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals and people with serious mental issues is not popular at all in the small towns and rural areas.

[CountAllVotes]

127. Too bad really

They don't give a shit about that precious baby after it is born. Who cares if the baby has the proper care? Who cares if it is out in a storm crawling around with a soiled diaper on and the mother is indoors smoking a phatty?

WHO CARES? Answer = no one in reality, no one.

[hamsterjill]

140. You are absoluely, 100% correct! Thank you!

The Republicans have used the issue of reproductive rights masterfully. They have invaded the pulpits over the last decades and had the issue of abortion preached as morally reprehensible. These women are ONE issue voters and it wouldn't matter if a Republican said he was going to steal their homes, as long as he said he was pro-life.

I life in Texas, too, and I have this argument on a daily basis with some know-it-all who automatically assumes that everyone believes the way he/she does. I have started asking them if they realize that when they say abortion is murder, that they are calling women who have had an abortion a "murderer". I ask what gives them the right to judge?

Doesn't change their unenlightened minds, but it does give their asses some food for thought. I have as little interaction with these types as I can, but as you know, there are many of them in Texas.

[Iggo]

126. The problem is, calling them "ordinary Americans" implies the other 80% are not "ordinary Americans"

That shit's gotta stop.

[Squinch]

193. The point is that the knee jerk reaction is to consider them to be the definition of "ordinary

American."

Why are they considered the ordinary American, which implies that the urban American is not the "ordinary American?"

I don't see sneering. I see someone pointing out a mathematical fact.

And let's keep this on a political level: which policies that Hillary advocated represent "cluelessness" about the rural life? Which policies that Trump advocated represent understanding about the rural life?

And why did those in the rural areas fall for his obvious lies?

The whole narrative after the election is about how we failed and ignored them. Let's consider how they failed and ignored us. After all, THEY are who have given us Trump.

[FBaggins]

2. Well... We could start...

... By recognizing that they are ordinary Americans.

[Recursion]

5. Not really. 1 in 5 is pretty unusual

1 in 5 Americans live in a small town or rural area. That's a pretty minor segment of the population. But somehow they have convinced themselves they are "ordinary" and "normal", when in fact they are pretty weird and unusual.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. They are not weird or unusual. That's incredibly insulting and condescending

and contributes to the urban/rural division that fed the Trump campaign. People who choose to live in the country rather than the city are just as "American" as city-dwellers.

[Recursion]

17. It's not insulting to point out it's a small segment of the population

And it is.

Why does that bother you?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Your comment wasn't just that rural people represent a small percentage

of the population, but that this small percentage was weird, unusual, out of touch, whiny, and not normal Americans. That does bother me because it's not true, it's not fair, and it's divisive. We need to find common ground, not dismiss that 20% as aberrant and unworthy of attention.

Earlier in the 20th century the farmers in my state allied themselves with the labor movement and formed the Farmer-Labor Party, which was basically socialist - far more liberal than today's Democratic party. Even now, the Democrats in Minnesota are called the Democratic Farmer-Labor party. We need to get those folks back, not dismiss them.

[Recursion]

28. 1 in 5 is certainly "unusual"; you have to grant that

I guess "weird" and "out of touch" are value judgments.

In terms of "not normal Americans", I've been hit with that daily for 30 years, so the rural side can buck the hell up here, because that's about to blow back in their face incredibly hard.

[pangaia]

58. Hey Recursion, just very slowly, easy now, gently,

Now, just sit down in that recliner over there in the corner....
Okay... very good....now.....put down the bottle.. on the table......eeeaaassy...does it...that's it....

good good,,, now just.. relax,,, close,your eyes....breath deeply.....

There... that feels better...doesn't it??

[TupperHappy]

143. Homosexuals constitute 5% of the population.

Are they "weird" or "out of touch"?

[bluesbassman]

156. Ok then while we're discussing percentages 14% of the population is considered black.

Do you find that segment of the population "unusual" or "weird" or "out of touch"?

Your hypothesis is ludicrous.

[neeksgeek]

190. What about the highly educated?

People with graduate or professional degrees constitute less than one in six Americans. Are we out of touch or abnormal? I know the right wing thinks we are.

Dividing Americans into US and THEM is unhelpful, whether done by conservatives or liberals.

Just my two cents' as a white male with an advanced degree, living in an urban area, but with roots in very rural America.

[JimBeard]

146. But they don't do it anymore. The NFO was one of the most radical and I supported them but

they are a very, very small organization. Many join the Farm Bureau, an organization that sells insurance like the AARP with both claiming to be spokesmen for farmers. Farmers love that republican shit.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

151. Unfortunately this is true.

And the farmers love to gripe about the "greedy" co-ops, which are big operations now (e.g., Aurora in NE, KS, TX). In a lot of those small communities there's no other facility for storing corn so they are stuck with what the co-op charges and they complain about it. In the old days the service co-ops were formed so farmers could pool their resources for the efficient sale, storage and distribution of their crops but now it's just another big business and the farmers are stuck with what they charge. The farmers don't like it but they don't seem to understand that's what capitalism does, and they're on the bottom of that food chain.

[Duckhunter935]

85. Very true

[FBaggins]

19. "Small town and rural" is larger than 20%

But even if it were, it's pretty bigoted to refer to people as weird and unusual just because they aren't in the majority.

It would be easy to list half a dozen constituencies of our party (or on (DU) that are far smaller than that.

[Recursion]

21. I mean, it's about 22%

So, yes, that's "larger than" 20%, but not in any way you would want to hang an argument on.

[FBaggins]

23. Populations under 25,000 were about half of the country just a few years ago

But your post is offensive whether your statistics are right or wrong.

[Recursion]

31. No, sorry: I'm done with coddling small towns. They are not "ordinary": I am

Is that "offensive"? Well I've been putting up with Republicans AND DEMOCRATS saying for 20 years that these dead-end, parasitic small towns that I subsidize are somehow "ordinary" or "normal" or "real" and my life isn't, and I'm done with it. It's time to turn that rhetoric back into the factual realm:

1. Most Americans live in metropolitan areas. About 80% of us in fact.

2. Nearly the entire American GDP happens in those areas.

3. We subsidize the rest of the nation

4. They demonize us

5. And we should cut them off

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. "Cut them off"?

I hope you have a good source of food. Better hope your garden grows well, but most cities won't let you keep cattle and hogs in your back yard.

[Recursion]

36. I have a farm bill for that.

It protects the corporations, and also gets my food grown. Funny how that works.

What we're cutting off -- and, by "we", I mean "they", the people these Solons of the Land elected -- is the welfare programs that made their life possible. Medicaid expansion, KYNECT, SNAP, etc. Without those their economy is essentially just meth.

[sarisataka]

40. If people don't vote the way you like

your answer is to cut their social safety net and give government support to corporations to take over their jobs...

Has this site been hacked again?

EDIT> BTW how do you get such a bill passed since Dems don't control Congress?
Oh wait, Republicans do and they would be all over cutting welfare programs like flies on fresh cow shit.

[Recursion]

42. My answer? Not at all. That is * their * answer

They voted themselves into this mess, and they can vote themselves out. I'll be fine either which way...

[sarisataka]

47. In post #31 you stated

1. Most Americans live in metropolitan areas. About 80% of us in fact.

2. Nearly the entire American GDP happens in those areas.

3. We subsidize the rest of the nation

4. They demonize us

5. And we should cut them off

So in line 3, "we" means urban people but in line 5 "we" means "they"
Confusing.

Also without farm subsidies corporations would indeed take over. Also we would likely move from being a food exporter to a food importer as we could buy food cheaper from other countries and outbid anyone, including the people of those countries. The ripple effect is we would increase world hunger and give large corporations more control and greater profits.

I am not fine with that.

[JimBeard]

74. I have been in farming all my life and have seen small farms getting larger and

larger. They will continue to vote God, Guns, and Farm Subsidies. Farm Subsidies are being phased out for cheap, subsidized insurance. Work more on medium sized cities. I really like farming but hate farmers.

[JimBeard]

75. I have heard that all my life and have farmed. There is always someone

who will farm the land. We can and have been getting beef from Mexico, Venezuela, Argentina and even Australia where they are all grass fed.

[mchill]

227. Rural communities also support lumber production, recreation for urbanites (skiing, rock climbing...

[tecelote]

83. They are not "ordinary": I am

No. You are one sick puppy.

[FBaggins]

92. The you can add ignorant to biggoted

1. Most Americans live in metropolitan areas. About 80% of us in fact.

Most Americans live in metropolitan statistical areas. That doesn't mean that they don't live in small towns.

Downey Idaho has about 650 residents in a one-square-mile town, but they're in the Pocatello MSA.
Big Horn, Wyoming has a population under 500 ... but they fall into your claimed 80% because they're part of Sheridan, WY's MSA.

Also in the same MSA... this thriving metropolis:



Hint - you don't know what the heck you're talking about.

[ProfessorGAC]

94. I'm With You Baggins

I live in a town of a little more than 6,000 We're 54 miles from downtown Chicago. Yes, the southern fringes of Chicagland, but it's hardly the middle of nowhere. Mostly a bedroom community (some business of course, but mostly retail), and a large blue collar work force. (Electricians, pipefitters, heavy equipment for roads, etc.)
Small town and rural are hardly synonyms.

[doc03]

183. Wow I woud live there any day rather than some crowded urban shit hole nt

[metalbot]

185. You know how I test if a post has no content?

I substitute some of the nouns, and try to decide if I can turn the post from left wing to right wing and vice versa.

I did that with your post, but used race instead of urban/rural. I'm pretty sure that THAT version of your post would fit in on any alt-right website.

I'm not necessarily saying that there isn't a kernel of truth to what you are arguing, I'm just pointing out that the approach you are taking is pure flag waving.

[pipi_k]

210. WTF?

I live in a small rural town of fewer than 1500 residents.

Some of those people work in the bigger towns or cities.

Some are farmers.

Some own family businesses.

Some work for the town itself.

And some are retirees who are "being subsidized" with their own money they earned over their lifetimes.

Nobody who lives here "demonizes" anyone in the cities except for when we have to travel to one and deal with the rudeness, uncaring attitude, and crazy drivers. When I have to go into the city I can never wait to get back to my own turf where people know who I am...where, if I get a flat tire, someone passing by will stop to help (in the city, I've so often had to deal with it myself, because some guy dressed in a suit and tie doesn't want to get his damned hands dirty!.

If city-dwellers feel "demonized" by small town people, then maybe they should stop and examine their own attitudes first to see if maybe rural dwellers have reason to think they're a bunch of arrogant jerks.

[Aristus]

124. I'm with Recursion on this one.

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America make a fetish out of hating government, and then piss and moan if their Social Security check is late.

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America would say things like "I don't want no government health plan! And keep your hands off my Medicare!"

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America point to people of color and call them 'moochers', when it's the rural states that take in far more in Federal benefits than they pay out in taxes.

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America bellyache about being forgotten or having their concerns overlooked, and then consistently vote for the party that gains the most when they ignore the interests of people in rural and small town America.

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America view coastal American cities as dens of iniquity when it's the rural areas that see skyrocketing teen pregnancy rates, high rates of STD infection, prescription and street-drug abuse rates that are off the charts, and incidents of spouse and child abuse that would make a grown man cry.

If you live in rural or small town America, and take umbrage at these things, be part of the solution. Kick your neighbor in the ass, tell him to turn off Duck Dynasty, get up off his couch, and go make something of himself. Tell him to stop voting for the people who are making his life such a misery.

[FBaggins]

125. I hear black people really like them collards too... right?

That's exactly how you sound. "Rural and small town America" does not tell you enough about a person to add "pretty weird" to your labels for them.

As with pretty much all minority groups... it's ignorance that leads to such assumptions.

If you take umbrage at that... be part of the solution.

[Aristus]

128. I am part of the solution.

I voted for Hillary.

Like any solution to a complex problem, however, it requires more input than from just one person.

By voting for people who want to privatize or eliminate SS and Medicare, people in rural and small town America are screwing the rest of us, and not just themselves.

And trying to compare my assertions with the prejudicies of the Trump mob is a little fatuous. I'm not trying to institutionalize actions that would marginalize or disenfranchise people in rural and small town America. No poll taxes, no literacy tests, no 'sun-down' towns, no cross burnings; none of that. White people in rural and small town America have it easy compared to the people of color they've spent 160 years hating...

[FBaggins]

132. Did you note the context of what you were replying to?

You said that you were "with" a poster... and Recursive was definitely advocating policies that would impact those people.

[Aristus]

152. He said he wants to "cut them off" - Cut off Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid to them.

Then he reiterated that these policy actions are measures that people in rural and small town America themselves support by their vote.

They can shout till they're blue in the face that they don't want anyone messing with their Medicare. But as long as they vote for the politicians who want to privatize or eliminate the program, they're going to have to do so without my sympathy or support.

[FBaggins]

161. Sorry... that doesn't make sense

"They don't want Social Security to exist? Fine! They don't get it" only works if you're saying that they also don't have to pay for it.

[Aristus]

162. It's a double-edged sword.

They don't want people of color, Muslims, gays, etc receiving Federal benefits of any kind, despite the fact that the taxation necessary to fund these programs is no respecter of color, religion, sexual orientation, etc.

As rural white Christian "real Americans", they want these benefits solely for themselves and people like them. They rail against 'entitlement', but become very vocal if any change is to be made to their own benefits.

[FBaggins]

163. I'm not saying that their preferred policies in this example are correct

I'm saying that "cut them off" cannot be spun as a rational response and really just giving them what they want. It was clearly an expression of desire to hurt a minority that the OP is bigoted against.

[Aristus]

165. Well, I don't want anyone to suffer for any reason,

but if rural whites are feeling like the victims of bigotry, they are going to have to stand at the end of a very long line...

[FBaggins]

166. I'm sure that's true... except for one thing

Their votes count... and since they appear to have won, we have lost some ability to define their place in line.

It's early to be certain, but some folks who are deservedly further up in our preferred line order appear as though they didn't turn out in the states that made the difference in the end.

[Aristus]

169. Well, they've got their own problems.

Mainly, shooting themselves in the foot with a gun marked "I Hate Hillary".

Just one of the many dangers inherent when one makes personal, rather than pragmatic, political decisions.

[cyberswede]

158. People in all kinds of areas, including big cities, do these things

"make a fetish out of hating government, and then piss and moan if their Social Security check is late."

"say things like "I don't want no government health plan! And keep your hands off my Medicare!" "

"point to people of color and call them 'moochers' "

"bellyache about being forgotten or having their concerns overlooked, and then consistently vote for the party that gains the most when they ignore the interests of people in [thier part of] America."

As for this:

It's pretty weird that people in rural and small town America view coastal American cities as dens of iniquity when it's the rural areas that see skyrocketing teen pregnancy rates, high rates of STD infection, prescription and street-drug abuse rates that are off the charts, and incidents of spouse and child abuse that would make a grown man cry.

No weirder than people in big cities viewing rural and small town America as made up entirely of uneducated hicks. Teen pregnancy, STD infection, prescription and street-drug abuse, and spousal and child abuse happen everywhere.

[Aristus]

159. The overarching argument in all this is that people in rural areas felt left behind

by Democrats, liberals, career politicians, etc, and that that's why they cast their lot with Trump.

My rebuttal is that the source of their grievance has always been right-wingers, corporatists, 'small-government' conservatives, etc; and that the rural communities complaining the loudest are too blind to see it. They would have my sympathy and support if they could bring themselves to extend sympathy and support for anyone who isn't white and rural.

[annabanana]

187. this . . . .n/t

[Beartracks]

29. You confuse "small segment" with "edge of the bell curve."

Those aren't the same things at all.

========================

[pangaia]

52. Does that mean the black folks are not "ordinary?" Chinese folks are not "ordinary?"

Lesbians are not "ordinary?"
Buddhists are nor "ordinary?"
Vegans are not "ordinary?"
'Cellists are not "ordinary?"
HUNGARIANS "ordinary?" I'm Hungarian?

So, what say you? Am I not "ordinary?"

[DetlefK]

80. Counter-question:

Who is held up by art, media and politics as the gold-standard for what "America" really is? Where its heart and its traditions lie? The homeland, the heartland.

Is it lesbians? Is it buddhists? Is it vegans? Is it Hungarians?

Or is it the white farmer in Kickapoo County?

What about the 100 non-farmers this white farmer is selling food to? Why aren't they the "real America"?

[pangaia]

110. Counter question..

Huh?

[DetlefK]

117. We were talking about what counts as "ordinary" people.

In US folklore, those 20% are held up as examples of real american culture. The other 80% living in the cities are living in new and weird and deviant ways, the "big city life".

We can talk about who's normal as much as we want: It doesn't change the definition in US-culture what kind of life a "real" American is supposed to live and what region constitutes its "heartland".

- Christian
- white
- somewhere rural, self-reliant, free from government-influence, unspoiled by modern ideas

Except that the US is religiously diverse, except that "non-religious" is the fastest growing religious ethnicity (20-30% among young people), except that the US is racially diverse and becoming even more so, except that most people live in cities, except that most people somehow rely on the laws and regulations that protect them, except that almost everybody owns a Smartphone...

The definition of "normal" as depicted in art/media no longer matches the actual "normal" in real life and I don't see why we should give deference to cultural ideals that don't represent the culture at large.

[spin]

65. Have you ever considered what people in rural areas think of big city people?

Have you ever lived in a small town or rural area? I've lived in all three and each has distinct advantages and disadvantages.

The main reason people live in big cities is that's where the good paying jobs are. That may change in the future when more people work from home. Big corporations will not need enormous concrete and steel towers to house their work force.

[Squinch]

194. Why is it important that I consider what people in rural areas think of big city people?

Is it important that rural people think of what big city people think of them? I don't see the relevance.

What is relevant is whether the political party is offering a better deal than the other. Democrats clearly do for rural people.

What is also relevant is that rural people are no more "ordinary Americans" than the rest of us are "ordinary Americans." The narrative that says that the Democratic party lost the rural areas because they lost the thread of what is important to "ordinary Americans" is wrong. The Democratic party lost the rural areas because the rural areas insist on voting against their, and everyone else's interests.

Instead of the narrative being about why did we fail them, let's consider why did they fail all of us and give us a madman for President?

[spin]

219. Obviously rural people do not see that Democrats offer the better deal ...

for them.

?

They must really disagree as they as you say "eclected a madman."

Obviously our message is not convincing enough for some reason. Perhaps we need to learn more about rural people and what they want if we wish to have their vote.

One thing I know about rural people is that a high percentage own firearms. If you live out in the middle of nowhere that might prove to be a good idea. The police don't arrive in minutes like in many big cities.

[Squinch]

220. Well, given where we are today, I feel confident in saying that rural America has

just enrolled in Trump University and is headed for an education in scams and economic desperation.

They'll be convinced soon enough.

And that's what I mean. Obviously rural people are the ones who need to learn, and learn they will.

I reject this idea that the rural people who voted for Trump know something we don't know. They clearly DON'T know something that we know, despite all efforts on our part. And that ignorance is about to cause them a world of pain.

[spin]

222. Trump made promises that he will never be able to complete. ...

However if he can deliver on some we may find that his popularity will grow.

I have this bad feeling he is going to be far more effective than most people who are not his strong supporters do. If right that is not good news.

[jack_krass]

88. POC are about 20% of the population too. Do you consider them "unusual" or "unordinary"?

I swear this place gets stranger and stranger every day.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

131. More like 37% of the population

12% African American
17% Hispanic
5% Asian
3% Bi-racial

[cyberswede]

157. Basing "ordinariness" on a single factor is silly.

It's like saying that people with green eyes aren't ordinary Americans because a low percentage of Americans have green eyes.

(or, you know, since only 12.3% of Americans are black, they're not "ordinary Americans&quot

[pablo_marmol]

175. Well, I have green eyes, and I've always viewed myself as *extra*ordinary.

[treestar]

77. With bigger votes than ours

Between the ec and senate they get to have more influence. So why are they whining again? They get to put a drag on progress.

[LeftishBrit]

87. My interpretation of the post...

is that there is a constant stereotype that people in large cities are 'not ordinary Americans' and are out-of-touch; the poster was pointing out that it's just as true of rural as urban Americans.

[FBaggins]

93. The poster "pointed it out"... without backing it up

However... we almost certainly CAN say that that particular group of ordinary Americans has a perception of the "liberal elite" from the large cities that they don't care at all about "ordinary Americans" like them.

Proving them right doesn't help in the slightest. When a group of people start to feel that way about those in power, then their voting habits tend to consolidate. What we don't want is for suburban/rural white voters to start voting as a minority group.

[musicblind]

150. ... larger cities that they don't care about "Ordinary Americans" LIKE THEM.

With the implication being that people in urban areas aren't the "Ordinary Americans"... that we are fake Americans or somehow less "real."

It is extremely insulting the way rural America looks its nose down on big cities.

And I live in a small Republican town with only one high school and where alcohol wasn't even legal until 2010. People in this town and the other small towns I've been to, spend plenty of time claiming they are the REAL Americans and the Urban folks are somehow less than.

The implication from your posts is that you agree with them, or worse... that you'd pretend to agree with them in order to get their vote.

[FBaggins]

160. I was pretty careful with my use of scare quotes

When referring to actual people, I recognized that they deserve to be considered ordinary Americans. When referring to my presumption of how they think of themselves and us... I used quotes to point out that I don't agree with the limiting characterizations.

So no... I didn't imply that we are less real.

It is extremely insulting the way rural America looks its nose down on big cities.

That's not an uncommon perception... but I'm certain that they feel the same way in reverse. My point was that the OP proves them right about how many people (the Democratic base in particular) think about them - and that it doesn't help out cause to do so.

People in this town and the other small towns I've been to, spend plenty of time claiming they are the REAL Americans and the Urban folks are somehow less than.

So you think the proper response is to do the same thing in reverse?

[Lithos]

181. The US has regions where change happens faster

NYC, SF, etc. You can see this in cultural trends such as music and clothing which can take years for the ripple to make its way across the country.

I live in Austin and we are about a year behind the West Coast and New York City. Waco which is about 80 miles north is about 2 years behind us. I had already stopped using Facebook before many of my rural friends even discovered it.

There are a lot of other change points.

I like to view change and ideas using the memetic notion, which relies on viral propagation mechanisms. The Black Plague, Spanish Flu, TB, like change spreads faster in an Urban environment. And I think Urban people are more flexible and adapting to change. I think Rural people are not. This is why the back lash to change and change agents, immigration, globalization, women's rights, LGTBQ and the adoption of isolationism, manufactured nostalgia, and emotional jingoism, and snake oil cures, to create a bubble of plausible deniability so the can try and feel they have control, even if they do not. They want to believe so much that they are being bamboozled to an even worse fate.

[Horse with no Name]

4. As someone who lives in one of these out-of-touch rural towns

the biggest problem is that there is nothing to do.
So...the social activity is church.
Everybody goes.
Politics are shoveled from the pulpit into the gullet of the gullible.
I got a little nervous prior to the election when I saw people that I couldn't believe would support trump start supporting him. It was about the SCOTUS and "saving the babies from the baby killers"....that was the message from the church promoting voting for trump.
The week before the election I started seeing signs go up and bumper stickers. It made me a little queasy but I knew there wasn't any way trump could win.....

[Recursion]

7. Yeah, I grew up in one. I left, because there were no jobs.

Like every single generation of Americans before me, I went to where the opportunities were. Except apparently this generation wants to be immune from that. Snowflake syndrome?

[Horse with no Name]

24. I'm not sure but the more secular the big cities become....the more religious the rural areas become

This is in young women.
If you have Facebook....join "At Home"....it is a Facebook group and it is a hive of Jesus and decorating your home with re-vamped cheap Chinese junk.
But...there are scary themes that run through....off the top of my head...."how to decorate your prayer closet"....to name just one. There is a creepy and pervasive underbelly of rural christianity sneaking up....

[snooper2]

137. I left because I didn't want to be around uneducated fucking idiots

Love this thread LOL- Everyone is trying to "reach out" and "be nice" and "understand their desires" LOL


Welcome to Trump Land

[bravenak]

148. Stop making me laugh so hard

[hatrack]

209. Wholesome fun for the WHOLE family!

[rwheeler31]

12. You are so right about these churches

we need to find exactly how the party pays these preachers. try to suggest an audit of a church and watch the freak out.

[TeamPooka]

15. Save the babies, let the kids, adults and old people die. Their version of Christian sickens me. nt

[LonePirate]

6. We don't have to do anything. The Republicans will do that for us.

Once they kill the ACA, Medicaid and Medicare in the coming year along with raising taxes on rural Americans via his elimination of the Head of Household filing status, rural Americans, at least the non-ignorant ones will realize they have been played. Given that the wall will never be built and the jobs will never come back, only the most brainwashed will refuse to see that Democrats and not Republicans actually have their backs.

[DetlefK]

84. Except that they don't care about facts.

Better healthcare is just around the corner!

Those tax-cuts will lead to jobs any minute now!!!

Trump would have made us great again by now if the Democrats would stop their childish blockade and just rubber-stamp everything!!!!!

The media is hurting the economy by talking about how bad the economy is!!!!!!!

[virginia mountainman]

9. Interesting..

They just won, and you're calling THEM, out of touch??

ROFLAMO!!! If this keeps up, the midterms will be "interesting", we have a lot of senatorial seats up for re-election.

[Recursion]

20. Yeah, I am

I recall them doing that to me when we won in 2008...

[kcr]

91. Haw haw! It sure is a kneeslapper when the little people try to fight back!

Aren't they cuuuute! *snort* ROLFMAO!!!! right along with you! Woo hoo, can't wait for the midterms. Are you gunna bring the pop-corn? So funny!

[Marr]

119. It's crazy, right? /nt

[Squinch]

242. They didn't win. They were scammed. And they are going to suffer for that.

[LisaM]

10. Wow, that sounds awfully condescending.

Dialogue is really needed here.

[metroins]

13. Lies

Apparently we need to lie to them. That's what Trump did for 17 months.

[Tumbulu]

16. We need progressive radio in rural areas

Left wing Christian, anything that will stop normalizing hate "librals" and "Feminazi's". This is a long time problem!!!!!!

[RKP5637]

112. Definitely!!! All they get fed is RW propaganda and RW religion. It's been going on a long time and

Trump and his ilk are the result. It seems hate sells well. Maybe it's endemic to the human psychic that hate is good. It's all pretty strange.

[Mariana]

144. Hate does sell well.

That's why any attempt to air an alternate viewpoint is probably doomed to failure in those areas. Limbaugh and his clones are successful because they tell their audiences what they already want to hear! Same things with the preachers. If a preacher doesn't say whatever the congregation want him to say, they'll fire his ass and bring in someone who will.

[DBoon]

180. Carve out a section of the AM Radio band

and allocate it to non-profits, with preferences to local government and public educational institutions

[pipoman]

18. Urbanites will control Dem votes their cities and maybe their states....

Dems will never win nationally again if the party would take a dumbass position like this....newsflash: the electoral college is here to stay for the rest of your life.

The question is, when will urban democrats quit pissing and moaning about trans toilets and bridge the gap....until then, Dems are just fucked nationally..

[brush]

136. Not so fast. The repugs fuck up the economy with their policies every time.

Think about it. Recessions/depressions happened during repug admins and recoveries happens when the Dems get in.

Even now during the final weeks of a Dem admin GDP and wages are going up, but trust me, Trump and his minions will fuck it up just as W, Daddy Bush, Reagan, Hoover and all the rest did. Even Ike had a recession in the late 50s, the time often looked back on fondly as the good ol' days.

As Betty Davis said in that movie, "fasten your seatbelts . . .", because the right wingers are going to screw it up even worse than ever now since they have the white supremacists component added to their "sure-to-fuck-it-upedness" quotient.

[musicblind]

153. It almost sounds like you want it to stay. You almost sound like you think it's a good thing.

It almost sounds like you'd support those JPR types who are smug that Hillary lost.

But as for me, I'm not willing to throw transgender people under the bus. If that means we're fucked nationally, then so be it. You don't support evil just because you want to get ahead.

[pipoman]

170. Keep doing what you're doing expecting different results....

The Democratic party will earn labor votes back or die of complete irrelevance.

[WillowTree]

22. Boy, do you have that backwards.

What makes you think that in their view it isn't the city dwellers who are the ones who are out of touch? Have you seen any evidence that they feel any need whatsoever to "reach out" to people who are fond of calling them whiners because they embrace a different lifestyle? Maybe they think the urbanites should address the bubble they're living in that leads them to think they are somehow normative.

Maybe the city folk should consider how they might bridge that gap.

[Recursion]

32. Numbers

Maybe the city folk should consider how they might bridge that gap.

For God's sake.

I've been told that my whole life, and I'm 40.

I've paid for their bridges and roads and health insurance and SNAP and farm subsidies long enough. If they can't admit they're a minor part of the polity, it's time to let them live with the consequences of their own voting. Oh... guess what... that's about to happen.

[handmade34]

97. i understand the point

you are making in your original post... seems most people here don't...

...and no, we don't starve to death without the farms in the Midwest California grows almost all of out veggies and lots of meat comes from out of Country... besides, we all need to stop eating meat if we are to get the planet healthy

[WillowTree]

103. Are those California vegetables grown in LA and San Francisco, or in rural areas?

[pipoman]

115. An opinion of complete ignorance...

Pretending that California produces all the food is perhaps the stupidest thing stated by the urban pretenders. Even if it were true, and it isn't even close since cereal grains are around 70% of foods consumed in the US, you do know that the food production counties in Cali are ALL red counties, no?

No, urban elite Dems have lost the actual party base because of dumb ideas like "California produces all the food" nonsense.

[QC]

224. I used to spend a lot of time in the Sacramento Valley,

and politically it's basically Mississippi with slightly better roads and an oppressed working class of a different color. Beautiful country, and the people there are friendly, but that area is solidly right wing.

[lagomorph777]

217. Yeah - "How do we make other people reach out" is quite backwards.

The real question is "How do we reach out to places like Blue Ball and Intercourse PA?"

We need to 'splain the economic differences between Pukes and Dems. We need to hit this message constantly, with 1-syllable words.

Show them that jobs are lost in each Puke adminstration, and gained in each Dem administration. Show them the numerous protections that Pukes want to steal. And each time the Pukes nominate a thief/crook/liar, call him exactly that, in those exact words.

[sarisataka]

25. Insolent peasants!

Why don't they do what their betters tell them to do? We need to keep reminding them what fucking ignorant racists they are and how we really don't need their backward asses. That will shape them up.

*Although*

this small segment of abnormal lifestyle folks did just decide a Presidential election... How did this small minority group outvote such a huge number of normal people?


INSOLENT PEASANTS!!!!

[JI7]

30. start a "liberal" business and hire them

by liberal i mean things like green energy which would make them less likely to connect environment/regulations with job losses.

there should be state/national programs to allow students to travel to other countries . all paid for by the govt. they take classes , experience a different culture .


but in the end you just have to accept many will mostly remain very conservative. this isn't just in the US but rural small town areas without much diversity in other parts of the world also. those who are liberal are more likely to leave also which means the area will lose that liberal voice.

i was just thinking about how almost everyone i know who grew up in these conservative areas and no longer live there are liberal. what if these people had stayed in their home towns ?

what if the Clintons went back to arkansas and hillary decided to run for senate from arkansas ?

[Shemp Howard]

33. What should we do? Here's what we should do.

As a starter, we should respect small-town and rural Americans as being our fellows. We shouldn't look down on them as if they were extras from some old hillbilly show. That's actually a form of prejudice.

Secondly, we should listen to - and address - their concerns. As I have mentioned elsewhere, jobs are the key. There are few good middle-class jobs left in America, and rural America wants those jobs back.

Trump understood that. So did Michael Moore. So did Bernie. But Hillary missed it completely. And so she lost rural America.

[COLGATE4]

43. How (realistically speaking ) do you envision those lost jobs coming back

to rural America? They can "want them back" until the cows come home but all Trump's bullshit doesn't change the fact that they're gone and gone for good. The days when rural America could aspire to a good paying job right out of High School aren't ever coming back, rural voters' passionate belief that higher edumacation is certainly suspect if not actually evil notwithstanding.

[Shemp Howard]

50. That's a very good question!

There is no easy answer. But we must try! I refuse to accept that the middle-class jobs are "gone for good". Because to accept that is to accept that America will become a nation consisting of a small, wealthy elite and a large, poor underclass.

Perhaps the answer lies in enacting tariffs. Or in establishing tax-free economic zones in the inner cites. I don't know what combination of plans will work. All I know is that we must not give up. We must try.

[COLGATE4]

51. More a wish than a plan.

And you know the saying "Wish in one hand ..."

[Shemp Howard]

57. Why do you want to give up so easily?

Tariffs will reduce foreign imports, and so they will create good American jobs. The downside being that inflation will increase.

Tax-free economic zones also will create good American jobs. The downside being that tax receipts will decrease.

There are other possible solutions as well. Consider what FDR did during the Great Depression. He tried various strategies until he found out what worked. He never gave up, and he never accepted that most of America must be poor.

You might call all that wishful thinking. I call it trying to save the middle class. I suppose we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

[Squinch]

200. Interesting that the people who vote Republican - those same Republicans

who endlessly tout people pulling themselves up by their bootstraps - are demanding that the government bring back middle class jobs.

Middle class jobs have disappeared from everywhere. Rural and urban, east and west. Only some of those who face the loss of those jobs fell for Trump's obvious and completely disrespectful lies. Most of those who fell for those lies were rural people. Sorry, but that WAS stupid of them.

And do you know what the answer really is? Tax the wealthy. No one needs that second billion. With the revenues, improve education and bring innovation back to our country, make sure our BORN children are fed so they can learn and become the next generation of captains of industry. Encourage difference. Embrace the environment and support industries that support the environment. Take care of our elderly so we can learn the lessons they lived. House the homeless because it's much cheaper to do that than to leave them out in the streets. Stop wasting our resources on wars that no one believes in.

Basically take everything the Republicans stand for and do the opposite.

But the first rule is don't screw yourself in the service of a demagogue.

[Recursion]

67. Apparently factory managers will run their businesses as charities

This seems to be a running theme

[COLGATE4]

99. That's my take on it, too. nt

[bravenak]

149. Very good question

I am having trouble understanding this too. Want in one hand shit in the other. They better get some bootstraps

[Squinch]

198. Who is looking down on them? Who has shown prejudice against them and how have they done that?

Hillary did address their concerns. She had a very detailed jobs plan that looked workable and innovative.

Trump had obvious lies and platitudes.

They voted for the lies and platitudes. I'd say that was a whole hog embrace of the guy who disrespected them and treated them as idiots.

Rural America wants those jobs back? So does urban America! Rural America is not special in that wish. But now, because of the votes of rural Americans, we have no hope of ever seeing that happen.

[world wide wally]

35. Oh, they'll realize WTF they did shortly

[SMC22307]

37. Republicans control both chambers in 32 states (17 with veto-proof majorities).

Not enough for you? Attack rural voters some more. Blue collar, too, while we're at it. That'll be a winning strategy going forward...

[Recursion]

38. I think I will. Medicaid cuts and SNAP reductions will resolve this in a few years

I know it's macabre but I'm out of other options at this point.

[Squinch]

205. Well, as Ed Koch said when he lost his last race, "The people have spoken and now they must pay."

You want to see attacks? None of them even suspects the pain they will feel when all of THEIR OWN political wishes come to fruition.

And they will have no one to blame but themselves. No one failed them. They failed themselves and they failed the rest of us.

There is no sense pandering to that kind of stupidity. They will learn from their mistakes through the hardships that are inevitably coming at them. When they do learn, we'd better be offering something different, and not "moving right" in an attempt to catch them.

[elleng]

39. Spread THIS word:

https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2016/11/29

[jmowreader]

41. I totally understand where Recursion is coming from

I live in an area full of small towns. They consider there to be two groups of people living in America: city dwellers and Real Americans. People who live in the cities "don't understand the needs of real Americans." And of course, "real Americans" all vote Republican.

There is not one atrocity Donald Trump could commit that would turn "real Americans" away from him, except MAYBE taking their guns. And even if he did he'd still have supporters.

[Recursion]

45. Thank you (nt)

[jmowreader]

46. Keine probleme, Recursion. Guten abend.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

49. But isn't this part of the larger problem?

You have a lot of rural people who think people in cities aren't real Americans, and you have a lot of people in cities who think rural people aren't real Americans. There has to be a way to bridge this gap, and it seems like the Democrats have totally dropped the ball where it comes to communicating with people outside the cities. That demographic used to support Democrats and now they don't.

[jmowreader]

72. It really is; how the heck do we change that?

An example that's almost too easy is firearms.

To a "real American" - maybe a farmer, for whom a gun is a tool - guns are a Shining Example of the Freedoms All Americans Cherish. If you tamper with gun laws anywhere in this country to make them even slightly harder to get, you may as well take down Old Glory and raise the Hammer and Sickle.

To someone that lives in LA, guns are a real problem. Very few people there would be sad to see them go.

How do we reconcile "never mess with guns in any way, anywhere in America" with "please give us some help, it's a war zone down here"?

[benEzra]

174. Well, you could go after misuse, rather than responsible ownership.

The problem is that the DC/NY policy setters are doing exactly the opposite.

How much of LA's gun violence is caused by criminal enterprises funded by drug prohibition, vs. how much is carried out by working-class and middle-class families with clean records? In Chicago, over 90% of murderers (and ca. 50% of victims) have prior crimes on their record, and probably less than two thousand criminals are responsible for almost all of the violence.

Less than 2% of murders involve any kind of rifle, so why is the party throwing away election after election (both high level and downballot) trying to legislate rifle handgrip shape? Carry license holders have something like 1/10th the violent crime rate of the population at large, and less than half that of the *police*. Why spend so much political capital going after them? Such measures are not only useless at preventing violence, they are worse than useless; they tie up police resources going after the nonviolent, they destroy lives, and they destroy any chance for common-ground measures that might actually help address misuse without restricting rights.

There is common ground to be found. Things that come to mind right off:

End drug prohibition, make it a medical issue rather than a criminal one, and take away the profits that fund the cartels and gangs. (Is everyone too ignorant of U.S. history to remember the lessons of alcohol prohibition?) Then take all the law enforcement resources you free up, and get back to community policing and the Peelian basics.

When you catch violent criminals with guns, actually prosecute them, instead of plea-bargaining the gun charges away; as it stands now, the innocent homeowner who accidentally runs afoul of some arcane gun law is the *only* person likely to get a decade-long sentence on a gun charge, because they don't have other charges to plead to and don't have criminal higher-ups to testify against.

Accidents are already at historic lows. If you want to help discourage the few that still happen, how about a tax credit for UL-listed gun safes; as long as there is NO coercive angle, it would be a benefit and would probably be well received, and would help reduce both accidents and theft.

Work out a common-ground way to do universal background checks *without* hassle or registration. That does not mean forcing all private transfers through a FFL or third party.

There are undoubtedly other areas of common ground to be found as well, but to find them, you have to understand the basics of the issue, and most of the leadership in the DC/NY/CA bubble don't even begin to comprehend it.

[Squinch]

206. I don't agree with this. I do get the impression that people in rural America feel they are

the "real" Americans, that they are the embodiment of American values, but I don't see that going the other way. When rural Americans do stupid things like elect Trump or, you know, be Kansas, I as an urban American don't understand it. But I don't see the "real" American thing as part of the thinking process. I don't ever consider rural people as not being real Americans, and neither does anyone I know.

Also, this whole narrative of "Democrats didn't communicate with people outside the cities" is bullshit. There were many rural voters for whom the economy was the most important issue, who voted for Hillary. They seem to have gotten the message. Democrats got to them just fine.

As an urban American, no one came up to me and said, "Here is what we are doing specifically for you and your problems." The Democrats presented a platform. It addressed the things that will make my life and the lives of everyone I know, rural and urban, better. The Republicans only proposed policies that will make all those lives worse.

I guess I don't require more from the Democrats in terms of communicating with me than that.

What more do rural Americans require from Democrats? It seems that what won them over was obvious lies and idiotic promises, and appeals to their baser natures.

So what exactly would the communication look like that rural voters wouldn't consider "dropping the ball?"

[treestar]

78. Reminds me of Palin

Talking about Real Americans

[Recursion]

113. Well, yes: that's the point

I didn't start or want this fight, but there's no sense pretending we haven't been losing it.

[blue neen]

48. Wow.

You forgot the "sarcasm" thingy. Or something.

[LuvLoogie]

53. I hope Oklahomans and Pennsylvanians keep fracking and ruining their

Water table so I can get cheap gas in Chicago. I hope Floridians keep voting for Rick Scott and other Republicans so they all get to live on the beach some day. I hope Alabama achieves it's medieval dreams.

I am done reaching out to people who don't mind fucking themselves as long as it fucks somebody else worse. Have at it.

[DFW]

86. Ah, yes Oklahoma

The reddest state in the Union.

When they can't feel safe drinking their water, when they can't pay for their cancer treatments, and when their houses are unsafe on their foundations, as far as I'm concerned, they can ask Trump, God or the RNC for financial help. They voted for this, let them have what they asked for.

Heartless as it might sound, if the only way for them to find out that Fox/Republican "News" has been lying to them all these years is to find themselves in mortal peril, then so be it.

[msongs]

54. start here with this article from dKos I posted earlier.....

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/11/29/1605255/-Building-A-Party-Of-The-Future-Part-1-Before-You-Advocate-A-Rural-Strategy-Try-Visiting

[Warpy]

55. 1. Get control of the government

2. Wrest control of major media away from the propagandists.

If we don't do these two things, this country is done. You can't have a democracy with an electorate fed on bullshit.

We have seen that since the 80s.

[herding cats]

59. What we need to do is mobilize voters in urban areas.

That should be our main focus, not pandering to the rural vote. The vast majority aren't reachable, and I know, all too intimately, what I'm speaking about. I worked Democratic outreach in rural areas in a red state. This was the worst election cycle I've ever seen. It was by far worse than 2008 or 2012. They hate us, blindly hate us now. Not because of facts, but fictionalized conspiracies they've accepted. Immigrants are ruining the country and stealing their jobs, and now we're letting in terrorist, women are using abortion as an excuse to be "immoral", Obama has incited a race war, Democrats want to take away gun rights, raising taxes kills job production. They're perfectly happy believing bullshit lies, and on that note, yeah, promise them a rainbow unicorn that craps gold nuggets for their very own. If it comes with higher taxes, they'd just as soon shoot it, field dress it and serve it with pan gravy than accept it from you.

These people are ruled by their church leaders, who are political, and extremely RW. They (the majority I've spoken to) believe progressive thought is a "sin" and that they're going to hell for even entertaining such beliefs. I've watched this progression toward extremism in their religious beliefs since the late 1990's. Even watching it take place in realtime, it shocks me how far they've retreated into their self imposed insular thinking. The religious extremist used to be half, or less, of the population in these areas, now they run (too) many of the small towns. They hold the school board positions, are sitting on the county seats, are the heads of the churches, own the businesses, and are the people who employ and train the youth who don't run screaming at 18.

The ones like these people who didn't vote for Trump, just didn't vote for a president. That was their idea of a moral stand against him. I was told by some it was their pastors suggestion for those who couldn't force themselves to vote for a self admitted sinner.

They are about limiting women's rights to birth control, and little to no gun control. They hate taxes (see above: even on the wealthy) and paying for social services (which they use freely, but that's different in their eyes). They're extremely gullible when it comes to believing what they want to believe and they simply ignore what they don't want to believe. And, this isn't because they're all poor and/or under educated. I had a conversation with a well educated retired woman, from a upper class family (father was an attorney for Exxon, and her husband was an accountant for ExxonMobil), before the election who went full Alex Jones CT on me about the Clinton's in her explanation of why she early voted for Trump.

Yes, there's maybe 20%-35% of the population that's possibly still reachable at this time, but many won't come out of the closet and be vocal Democrats in true deep rural areas now. It's a death sentence for their businesses/incomes.


Off the top of my head I think we need to focus on Democratic voter access to the polls, and urban outreach. We need to get people registered to vote, in all regions/states, who fit our demographics. We need to work (actually work, not internet work) our asses off to get people to the polls this midterm election, and the next. Do not sit back and rely on Trump being 'so bad they'll learn their lesson', because they won't. I know people won't believe me, but they won't learn from this. They're living a completely different reality than you and I.

If you're talking about people in the Rust Belt, we need to explain the difference to them between NAFTA and CAFTA, and how the latter was under Bush. That's the big one I ran into talking to people there. Oh, and maybe explain China isn't in North America to them? That was another sore spot a lot of people didn't understand, how trade with China wasn't due to NAFTA.

[marlakay]

60. Having lived in both we need to keep a open mind

There is good about both. I was raised in town of 20,000 then spent most of my life until 12 years ago in larger cities, ten years in a town of 2,000 and my town now has about 10,000.

There is plenty to do in large cities, lots of stores that carry everything.

Rurally I was 3 hours from a large shopping mall or a whole foods. I drove 45 min to Costco that saved me!

But the people, yes the ones I am sure voted for Trump because when I lived there few years ago all my neighbors were republicans...those same people cleared our driveway of snow for two months one winter when my husband had bad pneumonia. I had their grandkids swim in my pool.

Yes church on every corner, time slows down and people get to know you and say hi when your out for a walk.

My small town here doesn't compare because I am in Humboldt college town area so lots of music, ocean, hiking, stuff to do even though small. But jobs are hard, most the houses here are old. We bought a older home. Doctors are hard to find and they just closed some of the few older age homes. People live simply.

My next door neighbor and I share a lawn mower.

I said all that because we are one country, small town, big towns.

We should all try to help each other, we small town people could help the larger town people to slow down and relax.

[Demsrule86]

95. True...the condescending attitude towards 'fly over' country does our party no good.

I live in a small city, and most of the people are nice...even Republicans...don't talk politics...there are a few racist ugly Trump supporters that I ignore and most people ignore...unpleasant and ignorant...but we should not assume everyone is like them. My daughter (gay)has been threatened at college by some of the latter type...happened two weeks ago...this week I waited armed with my camera, but they did not come back. The kids made their social media private so that should help with the stalking.

[gwheezie]

62. I.live rural, work urban.

By rural I mean we have one traffic light in the county, we have no incorporated city, we have one area that is a collection of houses & some gas stations that are in view of each other that could be called a town. I've been in this county 20 years, I moved from a more populated rural area because it was getting too built up. That being said, I would not live here if I had small children to raise because the place is run by snake handling fundie busy bodies who can't let people be.
For people who claim to be for small government they have a lot to say about the right way to live.
Also several of the neighbors voted for trump to bring jobs back, what jobs? We never had jobs out here, never had manufacturing here. We have farming, logging & sand pits. The farmers want to continue farming the old way that has polluted the creeks & rivers here. The loggers want to be able to clear cut so soil erodes away. And the sand pit just wants to keep digging. And my neighbors as much as they burst into angry rants about where are the jobs would be the 1st ones to stop a company from moving here because it would ruin their way of life.
No manufacturing is going to come out here because nobody wants to raise taxes to widen the roads so you don't have to throw it in reverse and back up to make room for the logging trucks. They don't want to upgrade the phone or electric systems. They don't want to upgrade energy sources so it's mostly propane or wood. They don't want to raise taxes, period. But they blame urban areas for having services not available out here.
There are a lot of wonderful reasons to live here but there are a lot of myths about rural living that are just not true.

[jfern]

64. I'm sure if you lecture to them about how out of touch they are, they'll vote for your candidate.

[leftyladyfrommo]

66. Here in Kansas City rural and urban are all mixed

in together.

The divide between the uneducated and the educated is huge. We have a lot of very educated farming people who really understand what is going on around them. Farming is big business now. And then we have this vast population of uneducated rednecks that just believe any conspiracy theory going. They are proud to drive big trucks and act all macho all the time.

And then there are all the Bible Belt religious people who think having Faith means believing the world was created 5,000 years ago.

I don't even try to talk to them. It's impossible.

[Kablooie]

69. There is no "normal" America. 20% of America is still America.

We are a grand, boiling mixture of everything.
It's our strength and our weakness.
If we ever become homogenized then "America" as we know it will be gone.

[JesterCS]

71. Stop putting forth

Establishment candidates?

[LWolf]

107. .

If only people had opened their eyes and unstopped their ears when it counted for something.

[JustAnotherGen]

79. Nothing

And we don't get rid of the electoral college or the 100 Senators.

We DO need to increase the number of House Reps by population. That doesn't expand government but does make it much more accessible and in touch.

My district is a perfect example. I live in the rural horse country part - my choice. My neighbors do not share my values. But 30 miles down the road the people who share my values are being oppressed by knuckle dragging mouth breathers. Expand the House by population - it's only fair.

[atreides1]

81. Wait and see?

If what is being said about Republican plans for Medicaid and Social Security...it just might be the straw that finally breaks the camel's back!

"Medicaid is only one part of the US health care apparatus, but the people who use it are among the most vulnerable. The program plays an important role in subsidizing rural hospitals so that residents have access to care. People who live in the countryside are more likely to use Medicaid (21%) than people in urban areas (16%), according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. These are the same rural voters who helped put Trump in office by tipping the scales in states like Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania."

http://qz.com/848019/donald-trumps-plan-for-medicaid-block-grants-will-cut-health-spending-on-the-rural-voters-who-elected-him/?utm_source=YPL&yptr=yahoo


The downside is that a lot of other people in this country are going to suffer as well!

[Hoyt]

82. I like rural Americans who are not ignorant white wing racists. They are a minority though.

When I used to live in Atlanta, and would go to rural areas (often not that far from Atlanta), it wouldn't be two minutes before some yokel would ask, "how do you put up with all the N@@@ and Q*^%@@?" Screw the ignorant asses. When I'd bicycle through rural areas, my middle finger got a real workout saluting all the yokels who'd throw/yell things at me.

Again, there are plenty of rural people who are decent -- but they are a distinct minority as this election demonstrated.

As to guns, most of the rural people who are into guns -- for other than hunting for food and farm use -- are scared to death the Ns & Qs are going to move into their area. They are willing to arm up to prevent that, and tuck one in their pants when they go to the city.

As I near retirement, I want to move to a rural area -- for cost as much as anything -- but jeeez, the thought of that crud just turns my stomach.

[dawg]

105. I'm sorry I threw that pumpkin at you when you were doing B.R.A.G.

My bad!

[Hoyt]

142. LOL. I lived in Macon for awhile, even the police harassed bike riders.

I had plenty of beer cans and food thrown at me. Back when I could ride really fast, I caught a couple of the jerks. The look on their face was worth it when I pulled up next to them. Never so glad to get out of a place in my life. One morning I called up my office in Atlanta and said transfer me back today or I quit.

Now Athens isn't bad unless you are stuck around a bunch of frat boys.

[Vinca]

89. Let's send them all newspaper subscriptions.

And questionnaires. I would like to know how they plan to buy private insurance with a $1200 tax credit, all the while stashing their spare money in a health savings account to pay for everything their newly-lousy plans don't cover.

[jack_krass]

90. According to DU, we should Fuck'em (or at least the white ones)

[LWolf]

98. I think you misunderstand

the meaning of "ordinary." It's not synonymous with "majority." And "normative" generally refers to standards of behavior, not geography. Personally, I'm not for standardizing people.

I also think that if you want something from someone, or a group of someones, you are the one who should be reaching out. Opening a dialogue would be good, but it certainly isn't going to happen this way.

As a small town, rural American, I'm happy to talk to you about rural and small town issues, if you can do so respectfully. What would you like to discuss?

[melman]

100. Wow

The hostility towards people that aren't exactly like you. That's a great liberal outlook.

[Kilgore]

101. Really?

Have you not learned anything from the election?

Assuming you live in an urban area, where do you think your food, paper, wood, concrete, steel, wire, fuel, energy...... comes from?

[vi5]

104. Ugh...none of this is an either/or situation

Why do people on here insist on framing it as such.

Yes there was a lot of racism at play in Trumps win and our loss. Anyone that denies that is a fool. But there were also a lot of people that overlooked that racism for other reasons. Yes we can argue about whether or not that is racism in itself (I personally think it is, but that's another discussion) but the fact is that there were a lot of people who voted for Obama but didn't vote for Trump. Much more than even I imagined that there could be.

Nobody is suggesting we start chewing on hay and wearing confederate flag shirts All people are saying is that in addition to the cultural and social stuff (racism, homophobia, sexism, islamophobia, etc.) that the Democratic party already does a very good job at dealing with, that we also have to start going back to an economic message that will appeal to and raise everyone up. And no I'm not talking about "Well read the Democratic party platform!!" It's not the message we need it's the messenger, and that messenger has to be able to simply and clearly articulate hope that something can be done to better the lives of all Americans.

Our problem this election is that we relied almost completely on the social message (Trump is a racist! Trump is a sexist! Trump is an Islamophobe!!!) and hoped people would just vote against Trump. And as long as the GOP continues to exist in the reprehensible form that they do today and have for the past 20-30 years, we will continue to need that message. But we need to go back to our core Democratic economic message and have a great messenger to spread that message. And I'm sorry, for all the party platform and what's on the websites and everything else, Hillary was not that messenger. Whether it's because people didn't believe her (justified or not), or she just didn't articulate it clearly and simply enough, or whether they were just turned off by her "That's not going to happen. We won't be able to do that." negativity during the campaign.

People don't want to vote for realism. Thy want to vote for what can be not what is. And that's what this whole discussion revolves around, not simply an either/or social justice vs. economic justice argument.

[dawg]

106. All's we gotta do is out-vote them.

Which we can easily do - we just need to show up and vote for Democrats in off-year and state and local elections.

Use our numbers to win state houses, and then we can un-gerrymander our Congressional districts.

But we have to show up for every election. And we have to vote Democratic in every election. And yes - even if it means our state and local taxes might have to go up.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

108. Ordinary? The plurality don't live in urban areas either. Most live in suburbs.

Personally, I'm curious how many people in rural areas have seen local farm jobs given to Mexican non-citizens? I would guess that would be irritating to many of them, whether the cheap foreign labor came from Mexico (which it does) or Canada (which it doesn't).

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/farm-economy/farm-labor/background.aspx

The share of hired crop farmworkers who were born in the United States or Puerto Rico fell from about 40 percent in 1989-91 to a low of about 18 percent in 1998-2000, while the share born in Mexico rose from 54 percent to 79 percent over the same interval. Since then, the U.S. and Puerto Rican share has rebounded to about 29 percent and the Mexican share has fallen to about 68 percent. The share from Central America and other countries has never exceeded 6 percent.

It's easy for people to claim that Mexicans are doing the work that Americans aren't willing to do, but that's BS. That's the kind of thing that "elitists" who've rarely done any physical work in their lives would say.

There's a fruit farm near me that only hires Mexican immigrants now, but that place used to hire many locals (especially high school students) and they never had a shortage of workers.

From the nation-wide exit polls...
http://edition.cnn.com/election/results/exit-polls

Most important issue facing the country
Immigration (13%): Clinton 33%, Trump 64%

Area type
Rural area (17%): Clinton 34%, Trump 61%

How many of these rural voters are tired of seeing nearby farms hiring non-Americans? If anyone knows, please share. Does it possibly correspond to when rural areas overwhelmingly flipped to Republicans in the past? Only about 2% of our population owns farmland, I think, but there's plenty of people who live near those farms who are employed by them.

[HAB911]

109. College educations might help

but they just screwed that pooch

[ileus]

111. #1 stop being regressive on the 2A.

That alone would turn every red state blue.

[DanTex]

114. Agree completely.

Rural America is every bit the bubble that they accuse "coastal elites" of being, except that Rural Americans are grossly overrepresented by the way our political system is set up: the house, senate, and EC.

The Bronx alone as almost 1.5 people, almost as many as the two Dakotas combined. But nobody talks about people in the Bronx, and worse, they lump them in with "city slickers" and "Wall Street elites" because they are from New York.

It's about time people start asking rural Americans to try to understand the other 80% of us, even if it means confronting some stereotypes that they have held for a long time.

[Marr]

116. "Ordinary Americans" being who? The DNC?

The problem is that the party is out of touch with ordinary Americans, not the other way around.

Working people in this country were long ago abandoned by the party. You can't appeal to them with empty words anymore. They've been hearing that bullshit for 30+ years now, while politicians sell them to Wall Street. That's over.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

118. Yep.

[Recursion]

120. No, we won the working class by pretty high margins

we won people making less than $50K by 8 points, and people making less than $30K by 10 points. We're doing fine with the poorer half of the country.

[Marr]

123. You're using national numbers to make a regional argument.

The party has a lock on black voters and people in the cities, not working class voters generically. We've just heard almost a months' worth of talk about the 'white working class', and you're telling me the working class is all in for the Democratic Party?

[Recursion]

134. Clearly it is: 10 points is a landslide among that demographic

Working class voters vote for us, pretty overwhelmingly. it's the richer half of the country that we lost among.

[Marr]

135. Again, the party has a lead-- nationally-- with people living in poverty.

That's mostly because it's got a lock on the black vote.

But as this election just clearly showed, it cannot claim to have the working class behind it.

[Iggo]

138. To which I can only say: Thanks, Debbie!!!

[DesmondFoster]

121. This isn't complicated.

The original post and the thought process included therein IS the problem.

[Paladin]

122. Let them suffer with the rest of us for the nightmare which they helped create.

I'm in no mood to be charitable to these ignorant people, right now. Democrats should concentrate their efforts on the professional class in the urban and suburban areas of all 50 states, while sharpening their national media presence and their propaganda skills. The support of rural voters who ultimately realize what a huge mistake their electoral temper tantrum was, should be graciously accepted. Those rural residents who maintain their allegiance to the Trump regime should be written off as a lost cause.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

129. 1976: Jimmy Carter won among rural white Southerners.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1976

White South
Carter 46%
Ford 52%

Rural vs. Urban/Suburban:
https://books.google.com/books?id=BwOmCgAAQBAJ&pg=PA241&lpg=PA241&dq=%22rural+white%22+carter+1976

"In 1976 Carter won working-class Southern whites but lost upscale, urban Southerners. Thus, the Georgian's victory signaled the reality of black-white political coalition transcending racial issues."

Just four years later against Reagan, it changed dramatically. People should go back about 40 years and see what changed. I bet it has far more to do with religion, economic and other issues over race.

[marlakay]

139. Carter was totally because of Nixon

and at the time there was a conscious in this country. People held the office of president to a high standard. They didn't like stealing and lying.

Now that doesn't seem to matter.

They choose Carter because after Nixon they wanted someone honest.

They choose Trump because they trusted him more with jobs and lower taxes. And for the religious to get a right wing Supreme Court.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

141. Why did more white rural voters repudiate Nixon/Ford than other groups?

White Southerners in cities voted for Ford. Many now strongly-blue states like California, Illinois, Connecticut, etc. voted for Ford.

It might have been more related to religion for those rural voters, at least in 1976. I'm going to look into it a bit more since I was just an elementary school student back then. I know that Reagan got the backing of several evangelists in 1980... somehow!

EDIT: This is interesting.
https://library.cqpress.com/cqalmanac/document.php?id=cqal80-860-25879-1173496

With his roots in rural Georgia and discontent over Ford's farm policy, Carter was also able to make a better than usual showing in rural areas for a Democratic candidate...
By exploiting his own agrarian background and the unpopularity of Ford's 1975 grain embargo, Carter nearly captured several Midwestern farm states four years before. This time he had to defend a grain embargo of his own, and the vote there was not even close.

[marlakay]

147. I forgot about his farm background

Doesn't surprise me about CA since its not a super religious state. I voted for Carter here in CA he was actually my first vote.

I was generalizing from my personal history not looking as technically into as you.

There probably was more to it, I was young and after spending my final high school years watching Watergate hearings with my dad who was glued, it felt when Nixon quit like America wanted someone honest.

I could be wrong...

[StevieM]

239. I also think that with Carter it was about the fact that he was one of them, in their minds,

at least at first. He was a man from the deep south.

Four years later we heard conservative saying that they were glad Reagan won because now we would have a Christian in the White House.

[ileus]

133. We work to make sure their votes don't matter.

Getting rid of the electoral college should be job one.


Then they can huff and puff all they want and we can tell them to go pound sand.

[liquid diamond]

155. Great idea

We need to work around not with those people.

[WillowTree]

164. How do you propose to do that.......

........when a significant number of the states that benefit most from the Electoral College would necessarily buy into its demise?

[musicblind]

154. Your OP reveals a truth a lot of these posters don't want to face.

That truth isn't that rural American's aren't real Americans... it's that rural Americans are WRONG when they say that urban Americans aren't real Americans.

I literally read a post on here where someone told us that clinging to transgender bathroom rights is a bad idea. Most of them, however, are just getting out leftover frustration from the primaries.

[KatyMan]

167. eliminate every government benefit they have

it's what they want.

[jmg257]

168. Apparently they have no need to do much at all. Despite having a 6 million vote deficit from

just 2 states, they just won the election for President(!!!), and will be more heavily represented in the other 2 branches of govt.

All they have to do is sit back and maintain the status quo for the next 2-4 years. They understand they still have some power to shape things.


Not sure what we can do about their being 'out of touch'. Maybe hope things are an absolute disaster and a huge chunk see the error of their 'abnormal' ways next election?

[Eleanors38]

171. If sarcasm were steel, you just bridged the Gulf of Mexico.

[ChazII]

172. While we do not discuss politics in lodge

perhaps they need to remember their obligation? I am not a Mason but am in OES.

[Bear Creek]

173. Churches

During the 70's there was active businessmen going around to the churches to have the congregations vote republican, listen to country and let people who know lead and not question. They have been preaching republican platform and not Jesus' teachings. There is a willful ignorance. It works well, so that whatever happens it is god's fault and never their own. They are going to have to hit bottom to wake up to the fact that republican views are causing their hardship. The democrats need to let the republicans do every hair brained idea and put out news releases as to why the republican policies are bad for americans and do not compromise on bad bills.

[jonno99]

176. I sincerely hope this OP is meant as a parody. If not, then it's an embarrassment to have

it posted on DU, as the ignorance it embodies is stunning.

What do we do about the fact that small-town and rural Americans are so out of touch?

1. Self-awareness - understand that the OP is out of touch.
2. Stop posting threads as offensive as this one.
3. Go work on a farm next summer

[Squinch]

238. Is it offensive that everyone is saying that the Democrats are out of touch because they didn't get

the rural voter?

If not, then why is it offensive to say that rural voters, who just voted for Trump against ALL of their own interests, are out of touch?

[SHRED]

177. Get rid of the Electoral College

[WillowTree]

197. How do you propose to do that?

[SHRED]

208. I understand it's a dream

[kcdoug1]

178. Same thing

We do with a political party that's out of touch! We discus, we debate, we soul search and then we CHANGE!..or we disappear

[DBoon]

179. Support rural public radio and TV

Make sure there is media other than the right wing available in rural areas.

[Squinch]

204. THIS. A way to begin.

[doc03]

182. That first sentence can explain in total why Hillary Clinton didn't get elected. Could it be

maybe you "ordinary" Americans are out of touch?

[Taitertots]

184. Be condescending and advocate policies that don't serve their interests

Abandon identity/group politics. Its destroying the Democratic Party.

[Squinch]

192. Which of Hillary's policies didn't serve their interests? Which of Trump's policies did?

Advocating policies that serve their interests didn't do much for us.

Advocating against policies that serve their interests didn't hurt Trump much.

[annabanana]

186. YES! Flip the narrative! THEY need to come around to

an understanding of America!

[Squinch]

236. Or at least they need to quit beating themselves on the head with hammers.

Which is what a rural person voting for Twitler is doing.

[ileus]

188. We pass policies to make it as hard to live in rural areas as possible.

No education dollars, no highway dollars, or at least slice government services down to the level they deserve.....starve the beast until it either submits to our demands or dies. We destroy whatever enables small business to survive in rural and small town America. Once they have no jobs and no quality of life they'll have no choice but move to the cities where you/we can dominate them properly.

If they have Army Corps water supply we cut it off. We put up more toll booths on the roads the travel most. ect...

We can make them more progressive, but it'll be somewhat ugly of a decade or so. Their cries will have to fall on deaf ears, because we know we're doing what's right for them and America in the end.

We need to make these people understand they're not part of real America.

[Recursion]

189. What on earth are you talking about? We send flyover country *billions*

We are subsidizing this out-of-date way of life, and it costs a lot.

[ileus]

202. That's what I said....we stop all funding and force them out of their lifestyle.

They will conform.

[Abq_Sarah]

216. I can't decide if you're trolling the OP or if you're serious

I'm leaning towards trolling.

[Squinch]

191. Wow. This seems self-explanatory to me, and yet everyone seems determined to

misunderstand and reject the point.

You hit some nerve of great insecurity.

[Recursion]

199. Right?

I've noticed that about this subject particularly.

[Squinch]

201. I have to say that before the election you pissed me right off with your thread on

"what's Hillary's catch phrase?" I thought you were totally underestimating the intelligence of voters.

Now I see that you were right. Sadly, I have learned the hard way what you obviously already knew: you cannot underestimate the intelligence of voters.

[TransitJohn]

195. Maybe more tonedeaf condescending posts like this will help eom

n/t

[Squinch]

235. Is it tonedeaf and condescending to say that the Democratic party is out of touch because

it didn't secure the rural voter?

If not, then why is it tonedeaf and condescending to say that the rural voter is out of touch because it elected someone who is going to make their lives hell?

[QC]

196. We should patronize them more. n/t

[Squinch]

203. Is it patronizing to say that the Democrats are out of touch with the rural voter? If not, then

why is it patronizing to say that the rural voter is out of touch?

[QC]

223. You can make a strong case that the party leaders are out of touch.

Limousines, large staffs, and big bucks do that even to good people with noble intentions.

And then there's the age old tendency for city people to look down on the hayseeds. If you ever find yourself wondering how a robber baron like Trump is able to pass himself off as a man of the people, just take another look at this thread.

[Squinch]

229. You can also make a strong case that the rural voter is out of touch. They elected Trump.

What I am seeing in this thread is not "city people looking down on the hayseeds." I am not seeing anyone disparaging rural people for anything other than the fact that they have just done an epically stupid thing in electing Trump. And really, try to deny that that was stupid.

The other thing I see, frankly, is weird comments about the "people looking down on the hayseeds" when no one is doing any such thing. There's some kind of complex going on around that.

[beachbum bob]

207. Lol...these people are ordinary Americans they just don't have same

Values as progressives....

[citood]

211. There have been lots of posts about why the Democratic party lost this election

Lots of discussion, debate, etc...people trying to put their finger on exactly why.

I think your post sums it up perfectly.

[Bradical79]

212. Don't treat them like toddlers

They fucked themselves, and are still a shrinking demographic. Pitch a plan, campaign, give more reasonable members of those communities reason to vote for you, and carry on about your business. Just a little effort in campaigning could make up for the tiny margin Clinton lost by in 3 key states.

The only big changes I see that need made are strategic, and funding wise. Become less reliant on wall street and large corporations whose only interest is profit for a tiny amount of people. It really hurts any progressive messaging.

[Squinch]

234. I'm really sorry but this is bullshit. Clearly the guy who won was the one who treated them

like toddlers. And the guy who treated them like idiots. And the guy who lied through his teeth and didn't even have the respect for them to lie convincingly.

As for less reliance on wall street and large corporations, again, take a look at the guy they voted for. That has nothing to do with it either.

So those stories don't work. The fact is, though that you are right. They fucked themselves. Given who they voted for despite all the disrespect he showed them in every way possible, I really don't think there was anything that could have been done to change their vote.

[Bradical79]

244. I didn't say we would win many of them over

My point is that treating them like toddlers and morons worked for him, but would be a big fat waste of time for us. We are not going to win these counties. Period. Too many people are delusional in thinking the factories and coal mines are going to magically come back the way they were, and religious leaders have their claws too deep into many of the communities. We're talking about winning tiny margins and giving some non-voters reason to differentiatiate Republicans from Democrat in presidential elections. You can't ignore them with the way the electoral system is set up, but you can't overcorrect either.

Congressional, state, and local representation is a whole different animal though.

[hollowdweller]

213. How about super fast broadband. Jobs programs helping renovate rural towns.

Most small towns are screwed. We need to give those people back a community life beyond being part of Fox and Friends.

[Squinch]

230. Those were part of Hillary's plan. Twitler's plan was to lie to them and treat them like idiots.

So they picked Twitler.

[HoustonDave]

214. Want to know why the Democrats lost?

I read the supercilious holier-than-thou rhetoric from Recursion - all them rural folks are just dumb ignorant shit-kickers worthy only of contempt - and I see exactly where the election was lost. The only difference between this and "KKK those dumb ignorant nigras' rhetoric I remember from the days of the Civil Rights movement is phrasing... I'm not sure I read a 'round 'em up and send 'em back to Africa/Europe' post but after a while I got tired of reading. It is exactly this kind of attitude which helped lose the election. "Only" 22%? Yet there was a huge hue and cry for gays and trans-sexuals, neither of whom exceed a few percent of the population, to get equal rights? A larger percentage than African Americans are of the general population? Or Hispanics? SERIOUSLY??? Alienate 22% of the population and wonder why an election was won or lost by a few percentage points? Stay in your city. Please, boycott any food you don't grow, use no energy you don't produce for yourself...and let us know how that works out for you.

[WillowTree]

215. And don't forget...........that 22% tends to exercise their right to vote.

[spin]

231. It's hard to convince people that you are right on the issues and they are wrong...

if you look at them as "dumb ignorant shit-kickers worth only of contempt" unless you are damn good at acting. Hillary never managed to convince voters in the rural areas that she actually understood their problems. Hell, she even labeled half of the Trunp supports as "deplorable" and some "irredeemable."

Admittedly she did have somewhat of a point however she managed to fire up a high percentage of Trump supporters and convince them to show up at the polls and vote for Trump.

There are plenty of reasons to help explain the odd result of this election and one of them is simply the fact that Hillary is simply not a very charismatic candidate. In today's world the most qualified and capable candidate can easily lose an election to someone far less qualified if they lack the ability to dazzle their supporters.

[Squinch]

232. Except that NONE of that was anywhere in his statement. You are reading something into

it that isn't there. No one said anything about ignorance or dumb or shit kickers or contempt. YOU are the only ones bringing them into the conversation.

The OP was simply stating that it is erroneous to consider that any minority of people, including rural people, should be considered or should consider themselves the "real America" in a way that suggests that the rest of the country is not the "real America."

It was making the point that instead of beating ourselves for not being in touch with the rural voter, it is perfectly legitimate to ask why the rural voter was so out of touch that it fell for Trump who lied to them and promised them unicorn farts and generally treated them like idiots.

That is a legitimate question.

You guys have gone all Freudian and hung your insecurities onto that. That's on you, not on the OP, because it simply isn't in the OP.

[MineralMan]

218. How are those Americans not "ordinary Americans?"

Do they not have television and the Internet? Are they unable to think about how to vote? What makes them different, aside from lifestyle and methods of earning their livings.

Are they somehow less that "ordinary Americans?"

They may well have different priorities than urban Americans, but I think that's allowed.

[BigDemVoter]

225. I don't think there is much we can do now

other than sit back and watch them wake up to the worst hangover they've ever imagined and THEN to realize that this awful hangover will NEVER go away.

[lindysalsagal]

228. This is really about the indie vote, not the rural vote. And we lost it this time.

The rural votes will never change. The thing is, this time, they hate the Clintons so much, they ALL showed up.

And the indie and dem voters DIDN"T love Hillary enough to show up, and STAYED HOME.

NOTHING is explained with policy: People vote their guts. If this election doesn't convince you of that, nothing will.

Trump knew one thing that made the difference: How to get people out to vote against his opponent. Period. He knows tv and Hillary doesn't. He knows how to make people hate those he wants to. It worked brilliantly.

And that's why it didn't show up in the polls.

The Urban/provincial issues are eternal and global and you'll never change them. My twin is afraid of big cities, and you'll never change that. She's dem, but she's union.

And when this orangatan effs up the entire world economy and ecology, they'll still vote R. It's never gonna change.

[JimBeard]

237. I have been watching some the CNN reporters special and I quit half way through.

They said they had been Democratic voters but I don't believe it. After some of it I decided they are not going to change and neither am I.

[MicaelS]

240. So it is fine to demean a minority

As long as it is one you are not part of, or like. Got it.

[Rex]

243. lulz