Former Obama professor calls for the President to be defeated.

[kentuck]

Last edited Sat Jun 16, 2012, 11:21 PM - Edit history (1)

One of President Barack Obama's former professors appears to have turned against him, according to a recent YouTube video.

"President Obama must be defeated in the coming election," Roberto Unger, a longtime professor at Harvard Law School who taught Obama, said in a video posted on May 22. "He has failed to advance the progressive cause in the United States."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/16/roberto-unger-obama_n_1602812.html

[tabatha]

1. This is completely DISGUSTING.

[JDPriestly]

23. I have several friends who refuse to support Obama this time around because they

say he is the same as Bush and might as well be a Republican.

They say, and I agree, that he has not been progressive enough to make good progress on our country's problems.

I am working for Obama, but so far I have not found an argument persuasive enough to get these friends on the Obama campaign or at least willing to vote for Obama.

I would like suggestions about arguments to use with these people that are more appealing and likely to be effective than that their ideas are "disgusting."

Any suggestions?

This is addressed to all DUers.

I have pointed out that if Romney becomes president, he will appoint Republicans most likely extremely stupid, short-sighted, right-wing Republicans not just to the Court but to every presidential advisory committee, every cabinet department, the CIA, the military intelligence, to everything. It would be horrible.

I am not changing their minds. Please -- any ideas?

[LiberalAndProud]

25. Secretary of State Grover Norquist.

Inevitable war with Iran. The alternative is simply terrifying.

[JDPriestly]

141. So true.

I'm doing this.

[TheDebbieDee]

39. Remind your friends also that Rmoney is surrounding himself with the same neocons

that cooked up the whole "pre-emptive" war strategy...........

[emulatorloo]

86. Yes, surrounded by Bush foreign policy and economic advisors.

[aikoaiko]

40. I had friends like that in 2000 & 2004

And they regretted their nonvotes because they realized they helped Bush win.

Were your friends politically aware in the 2000s?

[JDPriestly]

142. Yes. A couple of them probably voted Green, but most voted Democratic in the past.

[One of the 99]

42. Who would you rather have appointing the next Supreme Court Justice?

President Obama or Mitt Romney?

Rulings like Citizen's United need to be overturned. That will only happen if the next one or two Justices are appointed by a Democrat. If a Republican appoints them it is more likely that decisions such as Roe vs. Wade will be overturned.

Ask your friends if they really want that to happen.

[KoKo]

115. But, if the election is close and we lose the House again and only hold the Senate by one or two...

Then Obama will have to move Right to accommodate the new circumstances. With a close election and a lost House with more Repug winning because of the Redistricting we've had to go through and losses for Dems in the Senate do to retirements....then we might end up with two Supremes who aren't what we are hoping for.

Obama will be forced to move Right if this election is close. Then What????

[One of the 99]

125. Still better than the right wing ideologues that

Romney would appoint.

[JDPriestly]

143. And the worst of it is some of the very conservative Democrats like Lieberman who

are in entrenched positions. I understand that his term will end in January, but who will replace him? Someone even more conservative than he is? It is, in my opinion, so important that Elizabeth Warren, for example, be elected. She could support Obama in his more progressive stances at least on the economy.

[progressivebydesign]

52. tell them to enjoy Romney...

people like that have to be the stupidest fucking people on earth. Yeah.. enjoy your purist ideals, friends. Hope you don't need birth control or student loans..

[GCP]

76. SCOTUS

That's the reason to vote Obama, everything else falls by the wayside.

[enough]

117. +1 (nt)

[emulatorloo]

88. If Romney wins, the poor, elderly and disadvantaged will be destroyed.

The people who struggle most in our society will die.

[JDPriestly]

144. Yes. Many are not faring well already, but under a Republican president, especially

an elitist, super-rich one like Romney, the "people who struggle in our society will die." Death panels will not be needed because the very poor will simply be left to suffer and die in my opinion.

It appears that Romney just turned his back on the many people he fired when he closed companies or ruined them. He apparently never looked back to see whose lives he had ruined.

He would probably do the same in the White House -- just ruin people's lives and never glance back at the mess behind him.

[lunatica]

97. If they think Romney is a preferable alternative then I'm surprised

they're still your friends.

I sure wouldn't be friends with anyone who actually can't see the difference.

[jeff47]

134. Tell them you need their help.

Fear isn't going to motivate them. Otherwise they'd already support Obama.

The way to drag the Democratic party to the left is through primaries. We have to put more liberal Democrats on the November ballots, and then vote for the Democrat in November no matter their politics.

What's currently happening is liberal turnout in primary elections is abysmal. And that statement is an insult to the word "abysmal". So the conservative Democrats are the ones who pick the November ballot, because they show up. Every. Damn. Time.

So ask for their help. You need their help to get more liberals to vote in primaries. You need their help to identify and support more liberal primary candidates. You need their help to drag the party left. Please help me will have to become your mantra.

And ask them to not make it harder by helping to defeat Obama in November. 2000, 2004 and 2010 all caused the Democratic party to head to the right. If Obama loses in 2012, the party will just continue heading right.

So let's get Obama re-elected, and start working on getting better candidates for primaries. It's what the Republicans did, and look how effective it's been. Let's do the same thing for our side.

[JDPriestly]

140. Thanks again. You responded with this here first, but I read it here after reading your other post.

[Xyzse]

153. Alright, so I am guilty of:

"say he is the same as Bush and might as well be a Republican.

They say, and I agree, that he has not been progressive enough to make good progress on our country's problems. "

However, I have to state that if Obama loses, we get Romney. See, I might have been ok with that around 2008, but not any more. The guy has become ridiculous and the freefall the Republicans have done falling off the cliff called logic is seriously scary.

So no, even if I still don't like Obama, I will probably vote for him again. I was saying up till last year that I would probably write in a candidate instead, but holy crap, I underestimated how crazy the Right has become within the past 4 years. They have gotten progressively crazier each preceding month. I can't take the chance of them gaining more power.

[ehrnst]

156. Head of Health and Human Services: Newt Gingrich (nt)

[postulater]

2. And Romney's going to 'advance the progressive cause' any better?

(didn't listen to it, he looks too grumpy, so if he explains himself during the interview, I'm sorry)

[ananda]

3. People sometimes confuse me.. a lot.

Like James Meredith becoming a Reep and working for Jesse Helms for example.

Like anyone thinking that a Romney presidency would be anything but a complete
disaster for America and Americans.

[Journeyman]

4. He gives every appearance of being as anal as his brother, Felix. . .

[kentuck]

5. That's odd...

Felix Unger?

[Alenne]

6. Lol!! nt

[pipoman]

17. DUzy

U around Krispos?

[FarLeftFist]

7. Mitt Romney thanks you for the vote.

[killbotfactory]

8. Romney will help the progressive cause!

You know, like Bush 2 did...

Oh wait...

[Proud Liberal Dem]

27. The predicted progressive counter-revolution never (really) materialized either

in response to Bush's (s)election and we got eight years of utterly disastrous and ruinous policies that would've never occurred under a Gore/Kerry Administration. So much for assuming that "both sides are evil".

[longship]

9. So, Professor! Who in the fuck are you going to vote for?

Romney??? Oh, he's a LOT more progressive than President Obama.


Bull shit, professor of douche baggery. I am voting for the only chance we have for progressivism, Barack Obama.

I'm outta this thread. Bye!

(stupid git!)

[aikoaiko]

10. Thank you Professor Ivory Tower.

I realize that President Obama has not risen to the expectations of many, but saying he must be defeated just makes him a loon.

[Enrique]

20. he is actually very active politically

im reading his Wikipedia entry, its very long and his political activity goes back decades.

One part could be seen as relevant to what hes saying about Obama:

Unger found President Lula's first term to be conservative and riddled with scandal. He wrote articles calling Lula's administration "the most corrupt of Brazil's history" and called for his impeachment.[69] Despite the criticism, many advisors to Lula insisted that he should invite Unger to join his administration. In June 2007, after winning his second term, Lula appointed Unger as head of the newly established Long-term Planning Secretariat (a post which would eventually be called The Minister of Strategic Affairs).[70]

Maybe Obamas advisers will insist he hire Prof. Unger, lol.

[aikoaiko]

36. I know who he is

Im fine with the ideologically pure criticizing Obama but I'm not ok with them arguing for his defeat in the gen election

[Honeycombe8]

94. He IS active politically....in Brazil. He has done NOTHING to help...

the working class of America. He is an activist and academic. Nothing wrong with either of those things, but should be taken into account when deciding on what the person is FOR.

Activists have an agenda. Their agenda. It is not necessarily to make our country better.

Academics also sometimes don't have a realistic view of how things work and how things are for the working class.

This man came from a privileged existence and has spent his entire life in academia, never having, as far as I couldsee in his bio, worked a day in his life outside academia.

He ran for President of Brazil. This means he at the least he has dual citizenship, I suppose.

He says he supported Obama in 2008, but a Google search didn't reveal any writings or videos by him, showing support.

His views do not seem to be in accord with the Democratic Party of the U.S. This would have been true in 2008, 2004, 2000, 1996, etc.

He is another version of Ralph Nader. It's about HIM, not the country. Not me. Not you. Not our jobs. Not health care.

[Mz Pip]

11. So Unger

didn't get his progressive utopia in 3 years and the only alternative is to make sure a right wing reactionary takes Obama's place. And somehow this will further the cause of progressives, someday, eventually, in the future. Uh huh, sure.

This is sooo Eric Cartman. "Screw you guys! I'm going home."

[JDPriestly]

24. We need to be more than sarcastic.

Obama needs the votes of people who are more progressive than he has been.

Insulting these folks will not win their votes.

Anyone have some better ideas?

If my friends are typical, these are people that voted for Obama and contributed to him in 2008. Their loss will hurt. Any positive ideas? Any good arguments?

[Mz Pip]

87. I doubt being reasonable will help much either

at least with people like Unger.

The problem I see is that people projected a lot of what they wanted and expected onto Obama. Many on the left saw him as a progressive leader; the right saw him as the reincarnation of Karl Marx or Hitler, depending on their point of view.

I saw him as a slightly left of center Democrat who inherited a can of worms. Although I wish he had been more forceful in using the bully pulpit, he's been up against all Republicans and a scattered bunch of Democrats. The Blue Dogs certainly didn't help even when the Democrats had control of Congress.

Last year I went to a talk given by Daniel Ellsberg. He had many criticisms of the Obama Administration but also said that if he lived in a state where the election was going to be close he would not hesitate to vote for Obama. The alternative is just horrible. I believe he used that exact word "horrible."

With possibly 3 Supreme Court vacancies coming up in the next term a Republican president will pretty much guarrantee that there will be no progressive movement for at least a quarter of a century. I'm not willing to risk that. I will not allow my disappointment in Obama cause me to stay home election day.

[renate]

67. I laughed at what you said even though it's sad that he's doing this

"didn't get his progressive utopia in 3 years"

I'll admit that I no longer have that soaring sense of optimism that I had on Inauguration Day, but I think that's my fault for being starry-eyed back then, not the President's fault for having to deal with reality.

[freshwest]

12. Great logic. The Tea Party is the new progressive party.

More restrictions on people is freedom.

Producing goods at the same cost as China as he proposes, is sure to save us.

Wow, we are so out of touch here, we need to change.

Insert as needed.

[Nye Bevan]

13. Looks like someone didn't get his pony (nt)

[Zoeisright]

14. Fuck you, Unger.

Obviously a closet repuke. Shut the fuck up, Unger.

[white_wolf]

68. Closet Republican? Have you even read the guy's Wikipedia page?

It's clear he isn't a conservative by any stretch of the imagination, but I guess some people can't imagine that Obama has disappointed a lot of progressive people in this country.

[GarroHorus]

75. Actions are louder than words. His words say "progressive"

His actions say teabagger because that is the effect of them.

[bigtree]

15. why post this here?

. . . more to the point, why post this with the same blaring title and without a bit of dissension?

I'll never get posting this kind of stuff here. If I wanted anti-Obama propaganda I'd go to . . . oh, never the fuck mind.

[freshwest]

26. My only hope was that he wants us to be able to refute this guy... There are virtually no details on

The video description page, comments have been disabled, and the only thing on the channel is this series of lectures. This could be a GOP sponsored hit piece taken out of context, or a real person.

He seems very odd to me, totally right wing. He gives no solution how to get back to a progressive America, just attacks Obama. It is not reasoned as well as one would expect a professor to do.

The OP is from the Huffington Post, so we will be confronting this.

[Enrique]

38. just Google him

he is a Latin American leftist with a long high profile career, in both academia and in politics. He also criticized Lula for being too conservative after he was elected, and called for his impeachment.

[freshwest]

41. This ain't Latin America, though. I agree that economic freedom is first. But he's not clear enough.

I reasd the other posts with the googled infomation after I posted, thanks.

Does he want a similar collapse here with Romney, such as some Latin American countries have had? I don't think the reality of that would end up in a more progressive nation, but all out fascism.

Sort of a burn the house down and rebuild after a civil war? I don't believe that will go over well.

But I know that the plutocrats are blackmailing us on every front, threatening the sovereignty of the country, period. They're selling off this country and I don't think getting rid of Obama, and installing Romney will stop that; it will accelerate it.

[Logical]

37. Because this is a DISCUSSION forum and that is why we are here. Wow. n-t

[woo me with science]

44. Thank you.

The constant attempts to transform this place from a discussion board into a campaign talking point dispenser get extremely tiresome.

[Logical]

82. I 100% agree. They need a "Obama is perfect" forum for these people. I am sick of it. n-t

[Autumn]

114. There is one. I forgot the name of it but in DU 2 some DUers had the link

in their sig lines. I looked there a few times. I imagine that is where some of the missing DUers are.

[bigtree]

96. we don't just post EVERYTHING here just for sake of discussion

Is every critic who knew Obama allowed to post their rants against his candidacy here? Of course, not. I think this is over the line and offensive. I think items like this need to be, at the least, framed and presented in a way that doesn't just further the propaganda. As it is, this is just an unadulterated slam against our Democratic nominee. It doesn't need to be presented here in this unchallenged form to 'inform' or make it available for criticism or remark. I don't think it's out of hand to suggest that some folk here just revel in these slams on the president.

[Logical]

101. I think some here, maybe you, take every complaint about Obama as being a slam....

against the president instead of discussion about what Obama could do better.

Obama has been a disappointment in many areas.

I will vote for him and send him money every month until the election. And he is 1000 times better than any GOP idiot.

But he has and continues to make mistakes that need to be discussed!

[bigtree]

106. you see, I was specific about my complaint

If I wanted to say what you just said and implied, I would have said it.

Discuss what you want. Just don't post these slams intended to provide opposition propaganda, which purpose is to bring about the defeat of our Democratic nominee, without any clarifying or objecting criticism. Posting tripe like this, verbatim, amounts to nothing more than just opposition to the President's reelection.

On second thought, do what you darn well please.

[Logical]

107. LOL, with us or against us. I get it. Carry on. n-t

[bigtree]

109. at what point does this page become a billboard for rw-tripe?

I don't think you 'get' me, at all.

[Mojorabbit]

58. I like reading lots of different points of view

I am also, as the poster above did, reading about this person's history which is very interesting.

[Capt. Obvious]

110. You should alert on it

Take your chances

[bigtree]

111. ohh

Aren't you just redundant, Capt. Obvious? Just sayin' . . .

(alert that)

[Tarheel_Dem]

16. Oooh! Oooh! Can anyone guess the professor's DU screenname?

[progressivebydesign]

54. FlamingMoran? n/t

[rug]

78. Sid Unger.

[Major Hogwash]

18. Ram it, Professor Unger.

I'm sure you can find someone who will explain to you what that means.

[NBachers]

19. "Of course, I've got MY tenure, so it's all academic to me (if I clench my butt tighter maybe these

anal worms will stop wiggling )"

[Webster Green]

21. I could only take 27 seconds of that.

I don't like that dude.

[Autumn]

22. No, Obama won't advance the progressive cause

but old mittens will fuck us six ways to Sunday. Let's just keep Obama for another four years.

[progressivebydesign]

55. wonder if the Professor KNOWS that the republicans control the House? n/t

[Autumn]

83. I'm sure he does. It doesn't matter either way. n/t

[JDPriestly]

28. I have a friend who lost his house thanks to the lies of a mortgage company.

He hired a lawyer to represent him, but instead of fighting for him, the lawyer rushed to make a deal for my friend -- a deal that was really bad for my friend. The court tried to push my friend into going along with the deal that lawyer made.

So my friend hired a second lawyer who fought and used procedure to get justice.

Do you think my friend should have just settled for the deal the first lawyer gave him?

What if he had not been able to find the second lawyer?

Do you think he should have settled for a deal that wasn't any good? Do you think he should have stuck with the lawyer that did not fight for him?

I am supporting Obama and working on his campaign, but I can understand that a lot of progressives feel toward him like my friend felt toward his first lawyer.

It's fine for us who are going to vote for and support Obama to disapprove of what these progressives are saying, but how do we persuade them that they should support Obama?

I can understand how they feel. They think the stakes are very high and that the deals that Obama has cut are costing the country too much.

So, let's think of some arguments that work better than just insults and scolding.

[kentuck]

29. I think I posted a fair argument elsewhere on the page...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002817868

[Enrique]

33. he acknowledges there will be costs of an Obama loss

but what I dont get is why its necessary for the realignment he wants to see in the Democratic party. Whether Obama wins or loses, the opportunity for that is in the 2016 primaries. What good does it do to suffer the costs he talks about?

[limpyhobbler]

47. I think it would be easy to win these types of voters back by making some policy adjustments.

Prof. Unger, I don't know about that guy. The video was weird or something. But progressives in general. Like my sister. She basically has very similar views to mine but she is working for Jill Stein in Ohio because of the President's speeches on behalf of the natural gas drilling. I called her a fucking idiot but that just made her act even stupider. It's like she doesn't care about anything except policy issues.

[nenagh]

64. I find the idea of a Romney presidency terrifying....

I remember Watergate... & I think we are at Watergate level of financial corruption... however Citizens United has legalized it.

I do feel that this is a tipping point election... because there are simply no morals on the other side... at all.

And I wonder how much progressive legislation would have passed the Senate even with the Democratic "60 vote majority" the MSM imprinted on our minds... because that presumed Joe Lieberman, preferred running mate of John McCain voted with the Democrats.

Maybe Obama should not have pushed for Health Care first... but no one else was able to do it.

Sanjay Gupta recently was interviewed on Canadian tv and he commented about the Canadian Health Care system where people get to Drs and get treatment... and don't have to do without treatment because they can't afford it. (I remember Gupta tearing into Michael Moore re his health care documentary and saying that MM lied... which was wrong IIRC)

I spent 4 months in s Florida, made some good friends... lovely caring ladies.. and it took about three months before they felt safe enough with me to fully expose their complete and horrifying hatred of darker people... i felt sick...

so no votes there...

Pres Obama is an honorable man... and to replace him with Romney who will do anything, say anything to get elected... Essentially I see an Emperor Romney, if elected... or RomneyCheney if elected.

If intelligent people decide to sit this election out... it is at their peril because we can be sure that every bigot, every mind twisted Fox viewer and ice cream social old folks... will line up in the millions to vote against what is best for them.

Bloody hell............ a vote for Obama.............. is a vote for Seamus........... so if he can't bring himself to vote for Obama.... have him vote for Seamus this election.

[bluedigger]

30. Since when did Brazillian politicians mean dick in American politics?

I don't care what a brazillion Roberto Ungers have to say about our elections.

[treestar]

31. How do you get a Harvard Professorship when you're stupid?

Obama and the Democrats in the last Congress already did as much as they could. What does he expect?

[MannyGoldstein]

32. Failing to deliver and flipping off your base has consequences

I happen to disagree with the professor - I believe we need to keep things from getting even worse while we wait for FDR Democrats to turn this thing around.

[Remember]

34. Concerned

I am very concerned about people not seeing that Obama has been more conservative than moderate or liberal except for healthcare. The pledge to get out of Iraq and afghanistan have us only getting out of Iraq leaving 5,000 mercenaries there. Why have not the bankers been prosecuted? What about NDAA? The use of drones to kill overseas. Where was he when Wisconsin needed him? Why extend the Bush tax cut for the wealthy? I have unemployed over a year and do not see the slow turn around happening. Possible restrictions for Internet. OWS with the help of homeland security being targeted for harassment. I have voted democratic for close to 40 years but why does our democratic President not act like a Democrat. I just want a JFK or FDR for President, a fighter willing to ruffle feathers and fight for the little guy even when he knows he will lose. Right I right and wrong is wrong.

[progressivebydesign]

56. enjoy Romney. I hear he'll be WAY better for your problems. n/t

[Mojorabbit]

61. It gets really old with the enjoy Romney statement

We all know what the alternative is.

[pacalo]

71. We all know what the alternative is, which is why this progressive professor

isn't getting a lot of support here. The alternative would be catastrophic. Why would any progressive want to play into their hands? The professor's way of publicly airing his disappointment only makes it easier for the Republicans to steal another election -- progressive discord would provide a good cover for falsifying the results. What does he hope to achieve in a progressive sense by publicly taking away his support for Obama five months before the elecction?

I'm not happy about a number of areas of Obama's policies, but I sure don't want to be at the mercy of a teabagger government on steroids seven months from now.

[Mojorabbit]

89. I do not agree that a discussion of this professor's beliefs

will be something the election hinges on. Discussing his views isn't the same as supporting them. Those of us with reservations about our Prez, esp on this board will not be persuaded to vote for Romney IMO, because of what some professor says, which is why the "enjoy Romney" response is maddening. All it does is attempt to shut down discussion. Anyone can see that this professor has no room for non perfection in his views and there are many on this board with the same mindset. No flaws can be admitted nor discussed in our current political system while a Dem is Prez is just as bad as this professors stance.

[Remember]

98. To Mojorabbit

I agree and only wish to post what I have been hearing from individuals that were moved to vote for Obama in 2008. Most of these individuals feel voting is useless and I myself try to inform them the Supreme Court individuals will be replaced by the next President. Myself I wish Obama was just 80 per cent FDR. We need an open forum to address problems of getting voters to vote Democratic.

[jeff47]

138. Apparently part of your concerns are due to faulty memory

The pledge to get out of Iraq and afghanistan

Bzzzzzzt. Wrong.

There was no pledge to get out of Afghanistan. Obama ran on sending additional troops to Afghanistan.

What about NDAA?

Apparently your issue is with Congress then. They're the ones that made NDAA in an attempt to paper over blocking trials for people at Gitmo. You remember, when the Democrats in Congress cowered in fear as the Republicans claimed the trials would kill us all?

Where was he when Wisconsin needed him?

Well, he showed up in WI in 2010 and it hurt the Democratic candidates. So why, exactly, did you think having him show up now would be a good idea?

Why extend the Bush tax cut for the wealthy?

Because Congress controls taxation, not the executive branch. His option was to extend them, or throw millions off unemployment via veto. I'm sure the pain of starvation would be blunted by knowing rich people are paying slightly higher taxes.

OWS with the help of homeland security being targeted for harassment.

Homeland Security is a building in DC. They can't harass anyone. They can cause the agencies under their control to harass people, but DHS doesn't have any enforcement personnel of their own with which to harass.

[countingbluecars]

35. Newt Gingrich made the same call today. n/t

[pa28]

43. Götterdämmerung. Just have a disaster to burn our mistakes away and start fresh.

Sorry but I don't feel like being a spear carrier in "the ring" right now. I have a life and bills to pay.

The game is almost over but I'd like some supreme court appointments and one more chance to set the party right.

[Egalitarian Thug]

137. I agree. I don't want ot be one of those sacrificed either, but OTOH it is going to happen

one way or the other. This guy has valid points, but I have to ask, "where were you in 2007?" Like almost every other American, I didn't know anything about this guy prior to his DNC speech. Now we do know, and it's too late. We have to support this President because the alternative is unthinkable.

Hobson's choice.

[Zax2me]

45. Who cares.

Fairly positive this guy's self-importance moment isn't going to sway progressive voters - or anyone for that matter, to vote over to the dark side.

[Cali_Democrat]

46. What the heck? This makes no sense

So he thinks Romney will advance the progressive cause?

[Marr]

48. I don't understand the anger here from Obama loyalists.

We're regularly assured on this site that:

1. liberals are just a tiny minority and

2. Obama never claimed to be anything but a "centrist"

Well, if you're going to live on the right edge of the party, you're going to alienate the left wing of the party. It goes without saying. And if you truly believe that the number of Democrats who are upset with the Obama Administration's approach is insignificantly small, then why get angry about one lonely critic?

[woo me with science]

50. Well said. nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

57. But, we're a tiny minority with super powers. At once helpless and able to exert irresistible

influence to covert otherwise sane, rational, and pragmatic Democrats to pursue suicidal policies that makes the party ineffectual across the heartland.

We are Democratic Kryptonite.

Both nonexistent and ubiquitous.

Weak, while possessing the power of a hundred billionaires.

Incredibly naive yet diabolically clever.

We are the apocalypse personified while insignificant retards*.



*Their words, not mine.

[woo me with science]

65. ROFL! Nailed it!

Last edited Sun Jun 17, 2012, 03:54 AM - Edit history (1)

[WilliamPitt]

77. There's a minute of my life I'll never get back

[Egalitarian Thug]

112. Took you a whole minute to read that?

[WilliamPitt]

145. Shit

Posted in the wrong place. Meant to reply to the OP.

Now it's two minutes.

[Egalitarian Thug]

148. LOL! n/t

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. "Anger"? Try revulsion. They're different animals.

And I am one of those who maintain that the "liberal" minority who strongly oppose Pres. Obama is just that, "a liberal minority", sorta like the "minority" who supported Nader against Gore. Problem is, they're the only ones the M$M wants to talk to. Go figure.

[emulatorloo]

92. Actually Obama's approval rating among Liberal Dems remains high

Liberals Dem who disapprove are a small minority.

DU is a bubble and does not reflect the real world. We are a self selected group.

[treestar]

95. You're right; I hope these horrible, demanding, never -satisfied people

are not numerous enough to swing any election. They get too much attention as it is. They are not helping us and we need to work like hell to win this election and quit wasting time trying to satisfy their un-satisfiable asses.

[scheming daemons]

124. The guy said that "Obama must be defeated". How does that help the progressive cause?

The place for progressives to defeat him was in the primaries.



Obama is the most progressive candidate running for President.


Any progressive that "demands his defeat" is a fucking retard, as someone once said, who lacks basic logic skills.

[JoePhilly]

127. Obama's supporters are liberal. Why do you claim otherwise?

You built a false straw-man, knocked it over, and then complain that anyone would complain about this guy.

In case you missed it, the candidates for the election are now known. Obama V Romney.

If this guy say's Obama should not be re-elected, then he is also saying that Romney should be elected POTUS.

Do you agree with him ... YES or NO.

Those are the only choices.

[kentuck]

129. Those are the only choices...

..if you vote.

The third choice is neither.

[jeff47]

139. There is no neither.

The winner will be selected by the person that receives the most votes.

If you don't vote for Obama, you are voting for Romney. Because you are reducing the number of votes Obama receives.

[GusFring]

49. He actually seems like the socialist/communist that baggers said taught Obama. LOL. nt

[progressivebydesign]

51. what an asshole. Guess he bought that "no difference between Gore and Bush" thing too.

Yep dude.. I hope you enjoy the "PROGRESSIVE" values that Mittens and a Republican Congress and Senate will be bringing you if you insist on this liberal purist bullshit. What a dumb ass. Seriously...

Saw a woman post on something other day saying that she wont' vote for Obama unless he signals that he'll make pot legal. Soo.. the alternative is ROMNEY???

I'm grateful that no one I know is a purist, willing to send us into the cesspool again with another Republican raiding of America. I'm not a one issue voter.. I believe in voting for the GREATER good of the people.

[CakeGrrl]

53. Cool. By WHOM, exactly?

And where will the state of this nation be if that occurs?

Nice to think in a vacuum, I guess.

[Politicalboi]

59. He's looking for money

And knows Faux will have him on come tomorrow, or Monday. Like a vote for Rmoney will advance the progressive cause.

[Tarheel_Dem]

62. It's the same thinking that gave us Bush II. Problem is, folks like the professor don't have the...

same worries as the rest of us. What does he care who's in the WH? If Pres. Obama does nothing but sit there for the next four years, with his Veto pen in hand, I'll be happy. The current direction of the modern GOP scares the bejeezus out of most of us.

[ibegurpard]

63. I agree with a lot of what he says...completely disagree with his overall statement though

the Repukes are so far off the rails that if he can't see giving them complete charge would be a disaster on so many levels then he's not seeing reality.

[coalition_unwilling]

66. Does Unger have no comprehension of how American government

with its 3 branches works?

Reactionaries already control 1 branch (House) and have veto power in the 2nd (Senate) and Unger proposes to give them control of the 3rd branch (Executive)? That would mean the near-total consolidation of the 1-party state that reactionaries have been aiming for for the past 30 years.

Does Unger not understand how disastrous a Romney victory will be for the working class of this country? Or does he, from his ivory tower perch, simply not care?

I really don't get it. There are times when voting for the lesser of two evils is a CIVIC DUTY, for Christ's sake.

[Maraya1969]

69. Some people just need to get some lime light and Youtube is their source

nowadays. His only claim to fame is he taught the President of the United States so he is using that as a spring board to get some attention.

I say let him be. I didn't even watch it. He is like a groupie hanging around a famous rock band. If Obama had invited him to dinner he would be there straight away.

[JI7]

70. out of touch fucking idiot

[KatChatter]

72. I believe that many people agree with the professor

I know I do as do many others here and in my real life.

The way it needs to be sold is to tell people well I agree President Obama has not been very liberal or progressive but Romney would be even less progressive so voting for President Obama is really a vote against Romney.

The point is to get them to the polls to vote for the down ticket liberal and progressive candidates, which is far more important this election cycle.

[Happydayz]

73. Awww the little man just wants attention and faux news and Limpballs will give it to him

There is no way a true progressive would say defeat Obama. Because to defeat Obama, means rethug Mittens has to win. So therefore he is voting for a rethug who hangs out with racist and birthers, something isn't adding up here. Its one thing to criticize and express disappointment, but to out right say defeat Obama is a rethug slogan. Its mighty strange how the far left, never mention the rethug obstructionism in congress. They never mention or criticize the blue dog dems who road in on the Obama wave of 08, majority of those dems were anything but progressive. Congress has more power than the president. I'm starting think a lot of these so called disappointed white far left liberals aren't comfortable with a black man being the leader of the free world. I'm sorry, but this guy doesn't make sense at all.lol

[SidDithers]

74. Fuck the puritopians...nt

Sid

[whatchamacallit]

85. And up with the Prostrators!

[LeftishBrit]

79. And Romney would advance the progressive cause better?

Ugh.

[NNN0LHI]

80. Bet he voted for Reagan ... TWICE

I know this type of asshole very well.

Don

[mainer]

81. So we need a completely screwed-up Supreme Court

which will change the course of history, for the worst, over the next two decades?

[jwirr]

84. I think this guy has forgotten that what we get if we defeat President Obama is Rmoney.

And I am sure he will advance progressive ideals.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

90. Another useful idiot

Of course, I'm sure he thinks he's brilliant.

[Honeycombe8]

91. The choice is Obama or Romney. Who advances Progressive causes more, ya think?

Idiot.

[WiffenPoof]

93. I'm Sitting Here Debating...

...if I should post this. Obviously, I've decided to do so.

I'm not in favor of any Republican taking office. I have NEVER voted for a Republican and I never will.

However...I mentioned to my wife the other day that "apparently the Bush years weren't enough to awaken the Progressive voices in this country." What I was really saying and it must be obvious how disappointed I am in our current President (one who I fought so hard to get into office), I was really saying that the hopes and dreams of so many that we were going to finally turn the corner on all of this Right Wing madness was just that...a dream.

Other than defeating President Obama, I completely agree with Professor Unger. He not only lays out what has happened, he carefully and forcefully gives "answers" and "solutions" that I thought would be implemented by our current President.

We needed a person of tremendous courage...we needed a visionary...we needed a leader.

Maybe we need to continue our downturn even further before the people of this country finally realize that it isn't working. I think that is all that Professor Unger is saying.

Flame aways my friends...the truth hurts.

-P

[kentuck]

99. If we're not strong enough to debate it...?

Then, what does that say about us? If we prefer to censor or hide the argument, rather than to debate it, it highlights a weakness, in my opinion. Don't worry, be happy.

That said, most progressives will still vote for the President. It is unfortunate that the enthusiasm is not sufficiently high to work harder for his re-election.

[WiffenPoof]

102. Kentuck...I have followed...

your posts for a long time and I rarely find myself disagreeing with you. I hope that I'm reading enough between the lines to hear you saying that even the President's record (as a Democrat) should be debated. And further, that we need to own up to the fact that he has not lived up to the expectations that many of us had. I hope that we are strong enough to face these issues without letting our emotions dictate our reason. Thanks.

-P

[kentuck]

103. Definitely.

We should debate the President's record. Of course, he is better than Mitt Romney and will get my vote. I don't think it makes us weaker to analyze and debate which direction we are going?
But, I am not so blind that I cannot see the disappointment and lack of enthusiasm with a lot of his supporters. I wish that were not so. But, it is.

[WiffenPoof]

104. I'm Right There With You Kentuck....n/t

[Remember]

154. Remember

I agree strongly with you. We need to debate the shortcomings and the strengths of our candidate. While I might not always be right historically, hopefully I am putting forth the agreement correctly.

[woo me with science]

108. Excellent post.

A medicinal blast of much-needed truth. Thank you.

[HughBeaumont]

119. "Scorched Earth" gets you a dictatorship.

Progressives have nearly zero money, power or influence and have no media channels. That's why we're not getting any in office, only two parties merely divided by social issues. Democrats, Libertarians, Republicans and more than a few Independents all kneel at the Temple of Saint Ronnie as far as economics go . . .. just in varying degrees.

Let's not forget that, by and large, this really isn't a progressive country by a mile. Racism and hatred is more fashionable than ever. Corporations control just about everything from media to food to government to entertainment and America's population seems to either be completely on board with this or giving a "what can we do about it" shrug. We don't have universal health care and will likely never see it in our lifetimes. The want for real change simply is not there.

[WiffenPoof]

123. Good Points Hugh...

I think the most depressing thing you mention is that change towards a progressive future i not likely to happen in our lifetime. For a moment...just a brief moment, I though that we might have had a shot at it with our current President. I suppose that just adds to my disappointment...knowing that I will not see the change that we so desperately need.

-P

[joshcryer]

133. "maybe we need to continue our downturn even further"

Same story, different day.

[jeff47]

136. Your plan utterly ignores history

1994: Democratic loss causes the party to move right.
2000: Democratic loss causes the party to move right.
2004: Democratic loss causes the party to move right.
2010: Democratic loss causes the party to move right.

This guy's plan? A 2012 loss will somehow move the party left.

You want a more liberal Democratic party? Show up at the fucking polls on primary day. Liberal turnout on primary day is awful. So conservative Democrats get to pick the November ballot because they show up.

You want a more liberal Democratic party? Show up on primary day and bring all the liberals you can find. Even if you need a pickaxe, a compass, and night goggles to find them.

[WiffenPoof]

149. You Sound Angry Jeff...

There is no need to be angry. Perhaps you missed the part of my post that stated I have never voted for a Republican nor would I EVER. You might have also missed where I stated that "other than not re-electing President Obama, I agree with Dr. Unger." If that isn't clear enough, let me state that I will be voting for President Obama and I will (even though he has been a huge disappointment) fight for his re-election. Do you feel better now?

-P

[jeff47]

150. That's because I'm angry at the people who's effort extends to showing up in November and whining

on message boards.

You want a more left party? It's gonna take a lot of boring work over a very long time. Either help with the work, or stop making it harder by whining and thus driving people away.

[WiffenPoof]

151. You give me more power than I have Jeff...

...Driving people away? Geeze, I didn't realize I had that much influence over people.

We're on a "Democratic Message Board" that is largely occupied by people that actually give a damn about our country and our Party. Do you really think the people that frequent this board are going to vote for a Republican? This is (by definition) an activist board...people here are "active" or they wouldn't be here. If they stay home or vote for a Republican because of something I posted about our President, they are not people I want in my Party.

You sound scared Jeff. Why? Are you scared that there are so many of us that are extremely disappointed in a person we put our hopes and dreams into? Are you scared to discuss (in a civilized and calm way) the shortcomings of the Obama Administration? Are you more comfortable ignoring the fact that we didn't get an experienced, courageous and dynamic leader that followed through on his COMMITMENTS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...much less the principles of our Party.

I'm not afraid to express criticism of our President...it is not only our right as Americans, but it is our obligation.

I understand your concern, Jeff. However, you will not be doing our country any good by marching in lock-step with someone who only pretended to be a Democrat.

-P

[jeff47]

157. Never heard of a multiplier?

One excited liberal can drag along a lot of other people. And can keep their spirits up as we slog through the lengthy process of dragging the party left.

One liberal shouting "fuck both parties! It's all rigged! We can never, ever change anything" similarly turns of a lot of other people. And makes it harder to keep spirits up as we slog through the lengthy process of dragging the party left. Getting through 2010 with a bunch of liberals who stayed home saying "I told you so!!!" isn't helpful.

Do you really think the people that frequent this board are going to vote for a Republican?

I think there are plenty that thought voting for Nader in 2000 was a great idea to punish the Democrats for not being liberal enough. There is a persistent myth among many liberals that withholding their vote in November will make the party turn left. Despite the fact that the party has turned right every time they stay home in November. And that attitude is cropping up again. If it wasn't, this thread wouldn't exist.

You sound scared Jeff. Why?

Because I remember 2000. W's term didn't cause the country to turn left, and I am very concerned the same people are going to make the same mistake out of a belief that the party will come to them.

The party is who participates. Liberals not participating is what sends the party to the right. Yet there are liberals who believe this is not true.

Are you scared that there are so many of us that are extremely disappointed in a person we put our hopes and dreams into? Are you scared to discuss (in a civilized and calm way) the shortcomings of the Obama Administration?

I think people complaining that 40 years of conservatism was not undone in 2 years are severely deluded.

Are you more comfortable ignoring the fact that we didn't get an experienced, courageous and dynamic leader that followed through on his COMMITMENTS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE...much less the principles of our Party.

No, I think an enormous number of people believe Obama promised things he did not promise. For example, "Obama said he'd pull out of Afghanistan" shows up on DU constantly. He didn't. He promised to send more troops to Afghanistan.

You can not undo 40 years of moving the country to the right in a single election. If you believed it would, that is not Obama's fault nor the Democratic party's fault.

However, you will not be doing our country any good by marching in lock-step with someone who only pretended to be a Democrat.

I suggest you actually read my posts before berating me for something I didn't say.

The entire point is liberals need to show up all the time in order to make the party more liberal. They need to vote in every primary. They need to get involved in the party apparatus. They need to help recruit and support liberal candidates. And they simply aren't showing up so the centrist Democrats call the shots.

Does that sound like "marching in lock-step"? Oh wait....I forgot you aren't bothering to read so that you can make another self-righteous post about how Obama has disappointed you by doing what he said he'd do. My bad. Keep working to keep people home until the party turns left by magic!

[WiffenPoof]

160. Thanks for the time you took to respond...

We're not so far apart Jeff. I am bitter and it comes out in my posts.

No, I didn't think that things could be turned around with one President. I'm not that nieve. However, I did expect a Democrat to hold to Dem principles. This, in my opinion, he has not done. I may be the only person in the entire world that thinks he did not fulfill his commitments...and if that is the case...that's okay with me.

No, I haven't read all of your posts and when I used the term "lock-step" I wasn't necessarily referring to YOU. I was speaking more generally. You see, you haven't read all of my posts either.

Do I need to go over what has been stated here ad nauseam concerning our President's failure to uphold the campaign promises that he made. So, you think that I believe that he made promises that he actually didn't make??? Oh please, Jeff. I guess you don't know me very well. Are you telling me that he didn't express a progressive agenda - that he was going to reel in Wall Street (as an example), etc. etc. What do you think the whole Occupy Movement was about? In my humble opinion, it was people who realized that the President wasn't going to do the things he stated he would do and they decided that they needed to do it themselves.

I'm sorry if you think that I'm some sort of Republican whacko...there is nothing I can say that would convince you that I am a loyal and committed Democrat and have been my entire 59 years.

You are correct...it would have taken a very special person to turn things around as quickly as many of us (unrealistically) hoped for. But are you going to tell me that he didn't put himself up as that "change agent?" Am I not allowed to be disappointed not only in our President, but the other fake Democrats that hold office and are just as responsible for our continued decline???

We are on the same team Jeff...even if you don't think so. We want the same things for our country. If you can't hear the "fight" in my voice than you are only hearing what you want to hear. You just want to hear that I'm dragging our Party down as if it hasn't already been done long ago by others with far more power than I have. I am a fighter and I will never "compromise" Democratic values...not for political reasons or to "get along."

President Obama is a real nice guy. Unfortunately, we needed more than a real "nice guy." We needed someone with the same commitment to our values and is willing to sacrifice whatever it takes.

No, you're right, it can't be turned around with one President. However, I expect him to at least make the effort to...to FIGHT just as hard as I have fought.

This is what makes us Democrats Jeff...both of us. We just see different methods for achieving the same goals. You are exercising the kind of patience that I do not have. Perhaps you have more time.

-Paige

[spanone]

100. a former professor only has one vote...it counts no more than mine. i will nullify him.

[WI_DEM]

105. yes, and things will be so much better under President Romney. What a jackass.

[ProSense]

113. Here's a

good read:

President Obama is not the lesser of two evils! This President has a record worth defending
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/16/1100637/-President-Obama-is-not-the-lesser-of-two-evils-This-President-has-a-record-worth-defending

Some people never learn, and Bush on steroids is not appealing unless you're on crack! If you're not on crack, and are advocating for Romney, then maybe you should be on a couch.

Obama 2012!

[great white snark]

116. There's a reason why this selfish approach is not shared by many.

Thank Goddess for the people who are occasionally let down but are always appreciative.

[TheKentuckian]

158. I think the opposite is true

If a significant number would tell the Turd Way to get flushed the party would have to negotiate and cater to the left or die. 1% can arguably be replaced as can 3%, maybe even 5% but when you get into the area of 10% and more the votes obtainable by lurching right even hypothetically start to dry up fast.
The higher the number the more impossible triangulation and the "who else are you going to vote for" threats.

Appreciative is absurd, these people are supposed to work for us and protect the Constitution. We don't have to be and shouldn't be thankful for placing a (D) next to their names and helping the TeaPubliKlans funnel the nation's wealth to the hands of the wealthy few, destroy or civil liberties and make a mockery of the Constitution, enable polluters to socialize their down side and/or flat destroy habitats, and spread empire.

Now, over the decades I have fell into line each and every time so I have been a part of the problem and I plan to remain in that column this cycle but I'm not going to play this game forever. Over the next four years I'll be reevaluating how to support good policy, self determination of the American people, and advancing broad prosperity but my answer won't be Paul Ryan or Bob McDonald or whoever will be worse. It will be affirmative on a course of action.

[MineralMan]

118. So what? Who gives a shit what this guy says?

But, hey, thanks for posting more negative crap about President Obama. Just what we need, I'm sure.

[kentuck]

121. Et tu Brutus?

This has a deep stench of censorship about it, in my opinion. Maybe we should just tombstone everyone that cannot be 100% positive about Barack Obama all the time? 96% just don't cut it, even if the words are someone else's. Just don't post it on DU. We only want to see rainbows and puppies? If you do post it, no matter if it is for informational or educational purposes, you will be crucified. We don't have the capacity to respond to it effectively so we would prefer not to see it at all. Or is it because it is doing the work of the enemy? They are much easier to dismiss. It doesn't really matter if there is an element of truth in it. If it is perceived to be anti-Obama, then it has crossed the line. I really don't know if this is a winning strategy? Let's silence all criticism from our side and hope no one hears about it.

[MineralMan]

122. Censorship? I have no authority over anyone on this website.

I simply expressed my opinion. You apparently disagree with that opinion and have said so. I didn't even alert on the post, and wouldn't, but I will express my opinion freely about posts of this nature. And you can continue to post them without worrying about me, since I can do nothing but reply.

[kentuck]

126. I am not really that concerned about this professor...

And I doubt that many here are that concerned? I think it is beneficial to know about these opinions that are floating around out there in the netherworld. I do not fear them. I welcome them. It is a weak argument that he makes for change, however strong it may seem to some...

[siligut]

120. The Reich-wing went searching for this guy to counter the stories of Romney while in school

Not specifically him, but anyone who could tell a negative story about Obama. I also suspect Roberto Unger just sold-out.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

128. So he wants Romney instead - what a fool!

[Number23]

131. As do apparently, the seven extra-special souls that rec'd this inane foolishness

For this type of mess to be showing up on this web site five months before an election is surreal.

[Autumn]

147. Well bless your soul. I am one of those extra-special souls. I rec'd

this inane foolishness because I think the post merits discussion.

[Number23]

161. A shock to everyone here, I'm sure.

[Scurrilous]

130. @#$% Roberto Unger.

Pendejo.

[Jamaal510]

132. He must have voted for Nader in 2000.

[jeff47]

135. Who knew a professor could be so dumb

2000: Democratic loss causes party to move right.
2004: Democratic loss causes party to move right.
2010: Democratic loss causes party to move right.

His plan: A Democratic loss in 2012 will cause the party to move left.

This man is a moron, free to live in his fantasy world because his family isn't going to starve.

[struggle4progress]

146. ... Roberto Mangabeira Unger is a citizen of Brazil ...

www.law.harvard.edu/unger/english/pdfs/discussions18.pdf

[Enrique]

162. and a citizen of the U.S.

regardless, since when do we hold people's nationalities against people on DU?

[struggle4progress]

163. Hmm. I'm not sure he's a US citizen: he was born in Brazil, and

the Oath of Allegiance he would swear in a US naturalization would require him "absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign .. state, or sovereignty of .. which I have heretofore been a .. citizen", which would seem to preclude such political activities as running for mayor of Sao Paulo or the Brazilian presidency -- or, more recently, helping design Brazil's National Defense Strategy. Being tenured with the Harvard Law faculty, he would be unlikely to make such mistakes as a naturalized American citizen

The significance of his citizenship, of course, is that his remarks about Obama are really aimed at Brazilian audiences, not at American audiences

[Enrique]

164. his remarks are in English

so presumably they are aimed at an American audience. He has been teaching at an American university, and publishing books in English, for decades.

And again, since when do we at DU regard foreigners with suspicion, questioning their motives simply on the basis of their nationality?

[struggle4progress]

165. Perhaps you have trouble understanding what you read?

Unger has no history of meaningful involvement in, or commentary on, the American political landscape. His practical interests in politics have been recent, usually very limited, and confined to Brazil. Beyond that, his "attention" to politics consists mainly of voluminous theoretical spasms, unconstrained by history or practical experience

There's no reason to take his self-important advice to American voters seriously

[Renew Deal]

152. Yes, the best way to "advance the progressive cause" is by electing Romney.

[librechik]

155. A very very left wing relative of mine routinely calls Obaba a babykiller and worse

The link you post was his first fb post of the morning. Just like every morning!

Yeah, I am disappointed, he could have been so much more. But Jesus, get a grip, the obstruction, the racism--of course he was forced to adopt the existing hegemony! I think of him as a hostage with his hands tied, and only a little bit of freedom allowed.

If this were a hundred years in the future, things might be different. But in today's context, I must back this POTUS 100% because of what he has managed to do while hogtied, as well as the loathsomeness of the opponent.

[TheKentuckian]

159. If the President is a hostage then how much worse the lot of us "small people" must be

He is the one who says to "eat your peas", nobody will ever be shoving them down his throat nor his children's.

This dude was a US Senator, he knew what the gig was and went into it with the fierce urgency of now so save you mercy for those fucked every which way but lose. Regular fucking people, not some rich man who will not want nor will his descendants for generations no matter how he sells the "small people" as fodder for the corporations and the MIC.

Boo hoo...poor Barack has it better than over 300 million of his fellow citizens and probably better than most of the 1% too.