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Cyrano

(15,035 posts)
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:39 PM Aug 2016

What is the Alt-right?

Have you heard the term "alt-right"? Did you know the definition?

Hillary mentioned "alt-right" in her speech the other day. The term has been around for months and I never knew what it meant. So I googled it and clicked on Wikipedia. Here's what I got.

The alt-right has no official ideology, but various sources have described it as a loosely-defined conservative movement that is associated with white nationalism, white supremacism, antisemitism, right-wing populism, nativism, and the neoreactionary movement.


Joy Reid covered "alt-right" for an hour this morning on MSNBC. Good for her. This topic needs to have a very bright spotlight focused on it. They are the "white-supremacist" scum that infect our society. And one of their ilk is now Trump's main man, the ex CEO of the hate site called Breitbart.
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What is the Alt-right? (Original Post) Cyrano Aug 2016 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author kestrel91316 Aug 2016 #1
Yes. I did a post on this yesterday after Cyrano Aug 2016 #2
Breitbart News is the campaign media arm of the Trump Campaign, for another thing. Fred Sanders Aug 2016 #6
I'm one of those. MicaelS Aug 2016 #31
Post removed Post removed Aug 2016 #3
"Social justice warrior" is a right-wing slur for anyone who isn't a misogynistic racist Odin2005 Aug 2016 #12
That's where the alt-right people come from, right there. Marr Aug 2016 #16
And it's all about ethics in gaming journalism sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #29
PROTIP: Disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian does not a misogynist make. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #32
And it's all about ethics in gaming journalism sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #33
Speaking of ethics NuclearDem Aug 2016 #34
No, but I'm noticing that the same person who was defending the alt-right sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #36
You'll have to point out who's defending the alt-right here. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #38
You were criticizing censorship? sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #39
You must have meant to respond to somebody else. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #40
Okay, here's nuance... sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #41
People involved in GamerGate aren't all right-wing white guys. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #42
Nice chart. Where did it come from? sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #43
Political Compass' test is poorly written and tends to make everyone score as a Left-Libertarian... Odin2005 Aug 2016 #45
We got a live Gamergator here! Odin2005 Aug 2016 #44
Okay. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #47
No, it's not. NuclearDem Aug 2016 #20
Pretty much -nt Bradical79 Aug 2016 #22
"social justice warrior" is a slur for anyone who doesn't tolerate their bigotry. white_wolf Aug 2016 #19
I've no doubt many apply the label 'social justice warrior' just as casually Marr Aug 2016 #24
And those trolls are the alt-right in action. n/t sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #30
Right wing fundamentalist extremists. uppityperson Aug 2016 #4
Now in charge of one of two election campaigns for President? Fred Sanders Aug 2016 #5
I would have gone with Atheist Libertarian Assholes Sen. Walter Sobchak Aug 2016 #18
Two links Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #7
Sorry, but I will go with Hillary's definition. Fred Sanders Aug 2016 #8
Her definition is consistent with the two excerpts I posted. You don't have to apologize. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Aug 2016 #10
"... opposition to multiculturalism and immigration ..." That has been the RW base for pampango Aug 2016 #28
To me, this is a "re-branding" for the Republican Party... happydaze Aug 2016 #9
If that happens it would at least be progress Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #26
High-Tech Fascism. Odin2005 Aug 2016 #11
Hatred without excuses HerrKarlMarx Aug 2016 #13
They're just trolls from 4chan ansible Aug 2016 #14
Alt-reich Soxfan58 Aug 2016 #15
Hillary spoke of it.... Stellar Aug 2016 #17
Alt-tab's cousin?! bigwillq Aug 2016 #21
Donald Trump and Sean Hannity. Rex Aug 2016 #23
I never heard the term until today. Zing Zing Zingbah Aug 2016 #25
You can scratch antisemitism from your definition Albertoo Aug 2016 #27
Protestant fundamentalism's support for Israel is based on anti-semetic ideas. LeftyMom Aug 2016 #35
Half true Albertoo Sep 2016 #52
No, it's still in there sweetloukillbot Aug 2016 #37
Did you forget Breitbart? Kingofalldems Aug 2016 #46
I must confess I do not regularly read Breitbart Albertoo Sep 2016 #53
It seems like another goofy word for "living in mom's basement" dwellers. closeupready Aug 2016 #48
It's what you call racists and homophobes and bogota when you don't want to call then Lee-Lee Aug 2016 #49
I don't think they believe in anything, its just about trolling Amishman Aug 2016 #50
Diane Rehm covered it marybourg Aug 2016 #51

Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Cyrano

(15,035 posts)
2. Yes. I did a post on this yesterday after
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 12:47 PM
Aug 2016

Hillary brought it up in her speech. As I said, I didn't know what it meant. And to my surprise, most DUers were only now, becoming aware of the term.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
31. I'm one of those.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:07 PM
Aug 2016

I had not paid any attention to them up until 2 weeks ago. I started reading up them and was shocked, disgusted and appalled by what these people believed. I simply am amazed that otherwise apparently educated and intelligent men espouse the visceral hatred these people do. I am utterly disgusted by them.

Response to Cyrano (Original post)

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
12. "Social justice warrior" is a right-wing slur for anyone who isn't a misogynistic racist
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:47 PM
Aug 2016

It's my generation's version of the morons 20 years ago ranting about "liberal political correctness", same RW bullshit about "easily offended college kids".

If you don't think they are White Supremacists you have been fooled by their propaganda, they are virulent racists who hate blacks and Muslims.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
16. That's where the alt-right people come from, right there.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 02:51 PM
Aug 2016

This habit of casually labeling anything that doesn't mesh with your personal opinion as inherently racist, or misogynist, or somehow 'tainted' by right-wing thought, is off-putting for a lot of people.

I disagree with you on the origins and nature of the phrase 'social justice warrior', as well. I consider myself to be a very liberal Democrat, and the phrase doesn't connote right-wing politics for me nearly so much as a particular brand of safe-space-grown, social media-nurtured, hyper-delicate, perpetually outraged attention seeker.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
34. Speaking of ethics
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:19 PM
Aug 2016

did you ever notice how claims of "harassment" and "misogyny" are usually followed up with pleads for donations?

Funny that.

sweetloukillbot

(11,010 posts)
36. No, but I'm noticing that the same person who was defending the alt-right
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:27 PM
Aug 2016

Is now questioning the harassment of women game designers.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
38. You'll have to point out who's defending the alt-right here.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:37 PM
Aug 2016

Or are you so incapable of nuance that you confuse criticizing censorship and extremist identity politics with defending fascism and white nationalism?

sweetloukillbot

(11,010 posts)
39. You were criticizing censorship?
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:40 PM
Aug 2016

I thought you were defending people who doxxed, threatened and spent several years harrassing female game designers.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
40. You must have meant to respond to somebody else.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:47 PM
Aug 2016

Because you can't possibly have deduced that I condone criminal activity from any of the above posts.

Unless your inability to comprehend nuance is getting in the way again, and you're just attempting to poison the well because you have nothing substantive to say.

sweetloukillbot

(11,010 posts)
41. Okay, here's nuance...
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 08:04 PM
Aug 2016

You are defending Gamergaters, saying that the women who were maligned and harassed by them were looking for handouts. It's a pretty simple deduction that you are sympathetic to the harassers, who were committing crimes, since you are implying that the women are being less than honest about the situation. You #notallgamer'd me about disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian, who wasn't actually the subject of Gamergate (that would have been Zoe Quinn). But you did recognize that I was linking Gamergaters to the alt-right, because, for the most part they run in the same circles.
So yes, I question your motives for arguing that you'd prefer more nuance in arguments with racists while implying that "social justice warriors" are "censorship-happy, emotionally-fragile, entitled brats."
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
42. People involved in GamerGate aren't all right-wing white guys.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 08:40 PM
Aug 2016

Frankly, I think it's a little suspicious that Anita Sarkeesian raised over a million dollars for the purpose of producing videos--she's produced three over a two year period--and usually timed her fundraisers to coincide with the "harassment" she would get--usually in the form of people disagreeing with her and calling her a scammer.

And that's not to mention her and Zoe Quinn running off to Google and the UN to get them to start censoring their critics under the guise of "preventing harassment."

So, again, you'll have to point out where you got the idea that GamerGate is overrun with white nationalists and fascists, because the major figures identified with the movement are primarily liberals and libertarians.

sweetloukillbot

(11,010 posts)
43. Nice chart. Where did it come from?
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 08:56 PM
Aug 2016

Because it has been widely reported since the beginning that it is a right wing movement, part of the ongoing culture war. That's why people like Milo Yianoppoulos and Vox Day are involved with it. That's why it bubbles out of the libertarian cesspools like 4Chan, and I'm sure it wouldn't take too long browsing r/KotakuinAction (or its Sad Puppy inspired cousin r/TorInAction) to find plenty of alt-right talking points.
I'll take your word that you really do believe the women are not being harassed but are exploiting it for money (ignoring the contradiction there). I'll take your word that you're not really part of the alt-right movement - you seem to post a lot of stuff I otherwise agree with and have added some excellent discussions to the site.
But to deny the link between the alt-right and Gamergate is incredibly naive.
I saw the people that rose out of the cesspool of twitter during the Sad Puppies debacle in SFF Fandom - I know the prominent pups and gators, and there is a lot of cross-pollination that is openly endorsed by the alt-right. And they all seem to work nice anti-semitic memes about Anita Sarkeesian into the discussion.
So enjoy your company.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
45. Political Compass' test is poorly written and tends to make everyone score as a Left-Libertarian...
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 07:58 AM
Aug 2016

...even if they are not.

 

NuclearDem

(16,184 posts)
20. No, it's not.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 03:15 PM
Aug 2016

I'm a liberal, and I despise the censorship-happy, emotionally-fragile, entitled brats of my generation who base their entire worth on how oppressed and triggered they are rather than what they've accomplished.

white_wolf

(6,238 posts)
19. "social justice warrior" is a slur for anyone who doesn't tolerate their bigotry.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 03:15 PM
Aug 2016

It's the same political correctness bullshit the right has been going on about for decades. Anyone who dares call someone out for their bigotry is labeled a social justice warrior. Anytime a site writes an article discussing women's issues or racism, it's flooded with trolls complaining about social justice warriors.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
24. I've no doubt many apply the label 'social justice warrior' just as casually
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 03:32 PM
Aug 2016

and broadly as others apply words like 'racist' and 'misogynist'.

 

Sen. Walter Sobchak

(8,692 posts)
18. I would have gone with Atheist Libertarian Assholes
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 03:09 PM
Aug 2016

I don't think this is a terribly religious bunch, that is probably what makes them "alt".

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,001 posts)
7. Two links
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:27 PM
Aug 2016

One is from alt-right HQ (to the extent that there is an HQ), but is full of good references and information, and yes, even some insight since they are embedded.

The other is moderated by large numbers of people who insist on clarity and neutrality and reliable reputable sources. No making stuff up ("original research&quot .


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alt-right

The alt-right is a segment of right-wing ideologies presented as an alternative to mainstream conservatism in the United States.{1}{2} It has been described as a movement unified by support for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump,{3}{4}{5} as well as by opposition to multiculturalism and immigration.{6}{7}

The alt-right has no official ideology, but various sources have described it as a loosely defined conservative movement that is associated with white nationalism,{7}{8}{9} white supremacism,{7}{10}{11} antisemitism,{7}{9}{12} right-wing populism,{13}{14} nativism,{15}{16} and the neoreactionary movement.{17}{18}

The alt-right has been said to be a largely online movement with Internet memes widely used to advance or express its beliefs, often on websites such as 4chan.{10}{12}{19}{20}



http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/an-establishment-conservatives-guide-to-the-alt-right/

(from near the end)

If you’re this far down the article, you’ll know some of the answers already. For the meme brigade, it’s just about having fun. They have no real problem with race-mixing, homosexuality, or even diverse societies: it’s just fun to watch the mayhem and outrage that erupts when those secular shibboleths are openly mocked. These younger mischief-makers instinctively understand who the authoritarians are and why and how to poke fun at them.

The intellectuals are animated by a similar thrill: after being taken for granted for centuries, they’re the ones who get to pick apart some of the Enlightenment’s dead dogmas. The 1488ers just hate everyone; fortunately they keep mostly to themselves.

The really interesting members of the alt-right though, and the most numerous, are the natural conservatives. They are perhaps psychologically inclined to be unsettled by threats to western culture from mass immigration and maybe by non-straight relationships. Yet, unlike the 1488ers, the presence of such doesn’t send them into fits of rage. They want to build their homogeneous communities, sure — but they don’t want to commit any pogroms along the way. Indeed, they would prefer non-violent solutions.

Fred Sanders

(23,946 posts)
8. Sorry, but I will go with Hillary's definition.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:28 PM
Aug 2016

The alt-right is a segment of right-wing ideologies presented as an alternative to mainstream conservatism in the United States.{1}{2} It has been described as a movement unified by support for Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump,{3}{4}{5} as well as by opposition to multiculturalism and immigration.{6}{7}

The alt-right has no official ideology, but various sources have described it as a loosely defined conservative movement that is associated with white nationalism,{7}{8}{9} white supremacism,{7}{10}{11} antisemitism,{7}{9}{12} right-wing populism,{13}{14} nativism,{15}{16} and the neoreactionary movement.{17}{18}

The alt-right has been said to be a largely online movement with Internet memes widely used to advance or express its beliefs, often on websites such as 4chan.{10}{12}{19}{20}

pampango

(24,692 posts)
28. "... opposition to multiculturalism and immigration ..." That has been the RW base for
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 06:21 PM
Aug 2016

a long time. Not sure why they had to rename it "alt-right".

 

happydaze

(46 posts)
9. To me, this is a "re-branding" for the Republican Party...
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:29 PM
Aug 2016

All of a sudden, alt-right is popping up all over the place by corporate media and establishment politicians. To me this is a way for the establishment Republicans, who first propped up the crazies in their parties, threw tons of astro-turfing money behind these people, their crazy web-sites, and have used the "other" narrative to motivate party members to the polls and have them believe in wild-assed conspiracies. It's now not working for TPTB who really just used the Republican brand to prop up their business and profits, while thieving more from their own base. It's also given them candidates like Palin and now, even worse, Trump.

So, now, the alt-right will become like progressive liberals of the Dem base. They will be marginalized, they won't gain financial support by people like the Koch Bro's, and they will begin dropping "social" issues as a means to win elections because its not working for them anywhere outside of Middle America and the South (depending on region). Watch, establishment politicians begin this "re-brand" of working in "bi-partisan" fashion, creating immigration reform (that will benefit the wealthy in the best manner), work with the ACA to prop up the corrupt system of private insurance companies, pass free trade agreements, and essentially try to win back some of the youth of America who are more economically "conservative".

I don't like it. It's going to allow the Republicans to "come back".

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
26. If that happens it would at least be progress
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 06:00 PM
Aug 2016

with respect to our current situation. We have a hell of a time getting anything bipartisan to happen right now.

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
11. High-Tech Fascism.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:42 PM
Aug 2016

It's pretty popular among the "Libertechian" crowd because any of the ideologists of the Alt-Right tell the techie libertarian types that they are superior to the "stupid normies".

 

HerrKarlMarx

(37 posts)
13. Hatred without excuses
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 01:57 PM
Aug 2016

At least traditional right wingers attempt to explain their hatred with some semi-logical excuses. The alt-right says 'I hate b*thches, n*ggers, and f*ggots, and I want as many people as possible to know.'

Stellar

(5,644 posts)
17. Hillary spoke of it....
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 02:59 PM
Aug 2016

Video: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/27/us/politics/alt-right-reaction.html?_r=0

Mrs. Clinton’s speech was intended to link Mr. Trump to a fringe ideology of conspiracies and hate, but for the leaders of the alt-right, the attention from the Democratic presidential nominee was a moment in the political spotlight that offered a new level of credibility. It also provided a valuable opportunity for fund-raising and recruiting.

Jared Taylor, editor of the white nationalist publication American Renaissance, live-tweeted Mrs. Clinton’s remarks, questioning her praise of establishment Republicans and eagerly anticipating her discussion of his community.

“Come on, Hillary,” he wrote. “Talk about Alt Right.”

In an ode to Mr. Trump’s characterization of Jeb Bush, Mr. Taylor described her speech as “low energy.”

Zing Zing Zingbah

(6,496 posts)
25. I never heard the term until today.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 05:54 PM
Aug 2016

Saw a clip of Hillary speaking about it today and then your post. The definition seems to fit what the Trump campaign has been about.

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
27. You can scratch antisemitism from your definition
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 06:05 PM
Aug 2016

Many members of the alt-right are religious fundies who see Israel as associates.

The antisemitic part of the alt-right is roughly the Stormfront usual suspects.

LeftyMom

(49,212 posts)
35. Protestant fundamentalism's support for Israel is based on anti-semetic ideas.
Sat Aug 27, 2016, 07:22 PM
Aug 2016

The whole point is that there needs to be a homeland for ALL the Jews to return to so that they can all be wiped out to kick off the Revelation. Many of them also believe that the formation of the modern state of Israel set off some sort of theological clock on the end times, though that argument is used less often as time passes and the world doesn't end.

But the two viewpoints are by no means mutually exclusive, and many of the people espousing them continue to have the same terrible beliefs about individual Jews even if they see the existence of a Jewish state as important to their theology.

For example the most prominent proponent of Christian Fundamentalist political support for Judaism, John Hagee, has made comments saying that he believes that Hitler was doing God's work in driving Jews out of Europe and thus triggering the formation of the Jewish state.

Trady catholics might have an even worse anti-semitism problem.

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
52. Half true
Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:25 AM
Sep 2016

yes, that might be the fundie religious 'rationale'
(supposing religions have coherent rationales)

But in practice, I'd say it's a safe bet to say a solid half of the fundies support Israel as an outpost of 'judeo-christian values' -whatever this might mean-.

 

Albertoo

(2,016 posts)
53. I must confess I do not regularly read Breitbart
Fri Sep 2, 2016, 09:27 AM
Sep 2016

I suppose I'm missing on something, but hey, can't be reading everything

 

Lee-Lee

(6,324 posts)
49. It's what you call racists and homophobes and bogota when you don't want to call then
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 05:34 PM
Aug 2016

what they really are.

Amishman

(5,557 posts)
50. I don't think they believe in anything, its just about trolling
Mon Aug 29, 2016, 06:56 PM
Aug 2016

and hurting people's feelings

The bigoted hate speech hits a nerve and gets attention, so they ramp that up

Clinton is on top, so they support Trump on the bottom. They don't actually believe in Trump, they just want to wreak shit.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»What is the Alt-right?