HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » So, I was told today that...

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:15 PM

So, I was told today that I am, basically, too old to be considered for a particular job

So, I met with a hiring manager today.

I had applied for a job and instead of interviewing me in her office, she took me out to lunch. She was very nice. But, what she told me, when you really boil it down, was that they have job openings, but I will not be considered for them. I will not be considered because the jobs are intended for "less experienced" (read "younger") people.

She thought it would be just too awkward to bring in someone who might be older than his boss. I explained to her that, because the position would be in a different (but similar) field, I would not mind taking a step down in order to learn how that kind of environment works. But she was not convinced. She said it would never work out.

So, I am too old for the lower-level jobs. But, when higher level jobs open up, I'll bet anything that I will not be in the running for them either -- because I lack exact kind of experience. Of course, I could get the right experience by doing a lower-level job and learning the ropes. But I cannot get those jobs because I am too old. Wash, rinse, repeat.

She suggested was that, if I want to get into that kind of work, I need to look for a smaller firm that might want someone with my "experience level."

Being laid off in your late 40s can really screw up your life.

76 replies, 9840 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 76 replies Author Time Post
Reply So, I was told today that I am, basically, too old to be considered for a particular job (Original post)
LuckyTheDog Jun 2012 OP
tabasco Jun 2012 #1
LuckyTheDog Jun 2012 #2
WingDinger Jun 2012 #3
LuckyTheDog Jun 2012 #4
Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #6
salin Jun 2012 #7
WingDinger Jun 2012 #8
sendero Jun 2012 #33
Baitball Blogger Jun 2012 #5
HeiressofBickworth Jun 2012 #9
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #46
WillyT Jun 2012 #10
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #48
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #11
LuckyTheDog Jun 2012 #12
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #16
TBF Jun 2012 #19
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #22
bhikkhu Jun 2012 #25
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #26
Zalatix Jun 2012 #28
Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #73
Zalatix Jun 2012 #27
Scuba Jun 2012 #39
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #49
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #65
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #67
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #69
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #70
Major Nikon Jun 2012 #71
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #75
Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #74
Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #60
MarianJack Jun 2012 #13
MADem Jun 2012 #14
LuckyTheDog Jun 2012 #18
MADem Jun 2012 #20
NewJeffCT Jun 2012 #15
Quantess Jun 2012 #53
NewJeffCT Jun 2012 #63
Quantess Jun 2012 #66
Coyote_Bandit Jun 2012 #17
GoCubsGo Jun 2012 #51
Coyote_Bandit Jun 2012 #61
applegrove Jun 2012 #21
LibDemAlways Jun 2012 #23
Speck Tater Jun 2012 #24
TBF Jun 2012 #35
JDPriestly Jun 2012 #29
TBF Jun 2012 #34
woo me with science Jun 2012 #40
TBF Jun 2012 #43
shanti Jun 2012 #64
FairyDust Jun 2012 #30
raccoon Jun 2012 #31
Shankapotomus Jun 2012 #32
bahrbearian Jun 2012 #36
lunatica Jun 2012 #37
slackmaster Jun 2012 #38
ananda Jun 2012 #41
lynne Jun 2012 #42
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #45
lynne Jun 2012 #54
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #58
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #44
lynne Jun 2012 #55
coalition_unwilling Jun 2012 #56
HillWilliam Jun 2012 #47
leftyladyfrommo Jun 2012 #50
HillWilliam Jun 2012 #57
RebelOne Jun 2012 #62
treestar Jun 2012 #52
Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #59
marlakay Jun 2012 #68
Honeycombe8 Jun 2012 #72
Ruby the Liberal Jun 2012 #76

Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:18 PM

1. Hang in there and keep on plugging along

You wouldn't want to work for that asshole anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to tabasco (Reply #1)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:22 PM

2. Luckily, I am not unemployed anymore -- just under-employed

I can keep muddling along with the lower-paid non-profit job I have now for a while longer. But, after 2 1/2 years at the lower salary, I am coming really close to having to make an early withdrawal from my meager retirement savings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:34 PM

3. She did you a favor. They intend on riding the youngster like a pony.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WingDinger (Reply #3)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:38 PM

4. But what would fluster the youngsters...

... very well might be things I could do with one hand tied behind my back. That lady is an idiot.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:42 PM

6. Yes, she is.

The only concern with older employees is whether they're willing enough to take the abuse that they plan to inflict on their hires.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:46 PM

7. agreed. (eom)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #4)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:55 PM

8. You very well could be offered a better job next week or month.

 

You bring a skill set that you will assert. You will take all your appropriate liberties. Not be bullied. And, insist on proper wages. If not now, then as you improve. And last but not least, you have a life that needs to be paid for. They arent intending on it being a living wage.

They are screwing the workers like never before. I hope you find a better job. The truth is, you should contact companies that dont know they have an opening. Look for unsatisfied ones, that have a bad egg that they would like to replace, but dont know how to. Offer to come in lower, and do what needs to be done. Cold calling is the key.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WingDinger (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 08:46 AM

33. LOL..

.... ain't that the truth. As a software guy, I noticed long ago that the company's perfect employee was 30something, single, no life whatsoever, willing to work consistent 80 hour weeks because they didn't have anything else to do.

I can't compete with that and have no intention of trying.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:41 PM

5. In Florida it's just the opposite.

Young people can't find work because older people are given the jobs because of their experience, and because of their willingness to work for less.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:57 PM

9. Was the lunch to help you forget

that discrimination in hiring based on age is against the law?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HeiressofBickworth (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:44 AM

46. Law, schmaw. Who brings a tape recorder to their job interview? So it

 

turns into a 'he said, she said' narrative and no lawyer will take the case on contingency.

If 'breaking the law' still meant anything in the U.S., Bush and Cheney would be on trial for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:58 PM

10. Another Reason To Raise Taxes On The Rich... Another Reason To Lower The Reirement Age To 55...




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WillyT (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:45 AM

48. Another reason for a Guaranteed Annual Income (McGovern '72). Subsistence

 

at any age should not depend on employment status.

!% of the population controls 40% of the wealth and 10% controls 80% of the wealth. So there you have it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 10:58 PM

11. This is illegal job discrimination covered by the ADEA

I'm a manager and I work part time for HR processing EEO cases. This is a classic case of age discrimination and it's illegal.

You should file a complaint with the EEOC. I'm serious. The first thing you should do is take detailed notes of everything you remember about the interview, including the exact words used as best as you can remember. Write down everything. The type of clothes the person wore, where you met, the time of day. Everything. It all goes towards how well you remembered the interview.

Age discrimination cases are actually some of the easiest to win in the arena of EEO, especially if the employer is stupid enough to say things like this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:01 PM

12. But, what benefit would there be?

The company might have to pay a fine, right? If so, how does that help me?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #12)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:11 PM

16. Back pay, baby

An EEOC complaint is a means of redress for YOU, not the government. The most common remedy for someone in your situation would be back pay. These cases often take a long time to reach resolution. So let's say 6 months from now, you get a job somewhere else. This employer could be ordered to pay back pay from the time you would have got the job with them to when you got a job somewhere else. Back pay usually includes interest, and legal fees also. If you get depressed over this and see a medical professional about it, you can also get reimbursed for medical expenses.

If you have any other questions, send me a PM and I can tell you how to get started. You do NOT need a lawyer right away, but further in the process you may wish to retain one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #16)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:26 PM

19. But wouldn't the hiring person just lie and claim she never said that? nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TBF (Reply #19)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:34 PM

22. They almost always do

And yet employers still manage to lose these cases. EEO cases aren't like criminal cases and reasonable doubt is not the legal standard. If a case like this gets far enough, eventually an administrative law judge weighs your word against the employer. That's why it's important to write down everything you remember and as much of the exact words spoken. You can pretty much count on the employer remembering things 'differently'. Furthermore the employer doesn't have to say verbatim that they are not hiring you because of your age. If they say things like "we want someoene with more energy", or anything along those lines, it can and is often regarded as illegal workplace discrimation by the judges.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #22)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:36 AM

25. Then perhaps they would fire the hiring manager

...replace the honest one with one who would just lie and jerk people around.

I suppose I don't know the people or the situation well, but I'd probably be inclined to appreciate honesty, and take the lunch and the talk as a rare show of class and courtesy, one person to another.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bhikkhu (Reply #25)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:14 AM

26. I have a completely different take on it

For one thing, the person giving the interview wasn't being honest, they were being ignorant. They were obviously ignorant of the law, which is extremely common. So they weren't doing this person any favors by being candid. They were admitting they broke the law because they weren't smart enough to follow it.

Next, this behavior is illegal. I have zero sympathy for companies that break the law. The ADEA only applies to companies with 20 or more employees, which means it applies to companies that have the resources to know better. Even if they aren't large enough to have dedicated employees who are experts in employment laws, there are still plenty of companies they can hire to train their employees in how to follow the law. There is no good excuse for failing to comply with the law.

If this company gets a big enough settlement against them, yes it will probably change the way they do business. If they are smart, they will simply follow the law. As you said, they may choose to try and hide their illegal activities. Many employers do, but those employers risk even bigger judgments against them for a willful violation. It's one thing to be ignorant of the law. It's quite another to be aware of the law and break it anyway.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #26)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:21 AM

28. You have the patience of a saint. Wish I could kick&rec your post.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bhikkhu (Reply #25)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:14 AM

73. I get the arguments presented to challenge this

but I have to agree with you. I'd rather know that their intent was to hire "entry level" (read: lowest wages possible, maximum workload) then get into the role and find myself in a position where I felt I was being taken advantage of.

While I recognize that ageism is discriminatory, the honesty is at least refreshing.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #12)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:20 AM

27. Punish the company so that they re-think their behavior with others.

 

Much like punishing a mugger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:29 AM

39. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:46 AM

49. Ha-ha-ha-ha. Oh man, do you have any idea how long the EEOC takes to investigate

 

and resolve such cases?

Easiest to win? Bwa-ha-ha.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 02:45 PM

65. Yes, I have a very good idea

Sometimes years, sometimes months. I alluded to this in one of my other posts. Had you read them, you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question.

Most cases are settled before the EEOC process runs it's course. Back pay cases almost always include interest from the date the original complaint was filed and attorney fees are almost always awarded. Not sure why you'd think the time involved should discourage someone from filing a complaint. They have everything to gain and nothing to lose other than the cost of a stamp to mail the complaint.

ADEA cases are the easiest to win simply because there are more protections for the complainant under that law than any other EEO statutes. Try reading them sometime. You'd be amazed what you learn.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #65)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 06:31 PM

67. That's funny. It's almost exactly the opposite of what an attorney specializing

 

in labor law told me when I went for the initial 'free consultation.' Specifically, he said that few lawyers are willing to take on contingency age-discrimination litigation because the odds of payoff are so slim.

Sounds like maybe I should have sought a second opinion. I'll bet statute of limitations (or whatever its equivalent is in civil litigation) has already run on my issue (age discrimination during the interview) from back in October 2010.

At any rate, I spare no effort to trash this employer (mahalo.com) every chance I get and am fervently hoping they come after me for libel, since truth is an absolute defense in libel cases and few things would please me more than to air out their shitty, law-breaking hr processes in public.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #67)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 07:57 PM

69. You can look at the statistics for yourself

Here's the stats for all complaints received by the EEOC:
http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/enforcement/all.cfm

Here's the stats for just the ADEA piece of that pie:
http://www.eeoc.gov/eeoc/statistics/enforcement/adea.cfm

The monetary benefits paid for all complaints in 2011 was $365 million. For just ADEA complaints, the payout was $95 million. That means out of all the different types of cases the EEOC tracks, ADEA cases paid roughly 1/4th of all the payouts. If you go to the litigation statistics, you'll see ADEA cases are paying a huge piece of the pie there too. So I'm not sure why the lawyer told you that, but there's a lot of lawyers out there taking these cases and winning and they are winning big payouts.

Many law firms specialize in nothing but EEO cases. I know one lawyer in particular that loves age discrimination cases, and particularly non-selection because they are some of the easiest to win. Establishing prima facie is pretty simple. Prove the person is over 40. Prove they were non-selected. Prove a significantly younger person was selected. The lawyer doesn't really have to do anything here because the EEOC investigator establishes all those facts. Once prima facie is established, the burden of proof goes back to the employer to prove they DIDN'T discriminate. Pretty much the only way they can do that is to prove the person or people they selected for the job were more qualified. The deck is inevitiably stacked against the employer because older people tend to have much more job experience than younger people. The deck gets stacked even farther for the complaintant, because the ADEA specifies specific rights which must be afforded to age discrimination complaintants that other complaintants don't get.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #69)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:18 AM

70. Thank you for this wonderful detail. I'm filing away in case I ever bump into

 

such a situation again. It's very shocking when it happens and I still remember it even two years later. (For all I know, the company ended up hiring someone more qualified than I.)

There were so many red flags during the interview -- for example, the interviewer who made the age-discriminating comment also called his CEO an 'asshole' -- that I didn't lose a lot of sleep about it, aside from this perfunctory initial 'free consultaton' I mentioned up thread.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #70)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:45 AM

71. I always encourage everyone to know their rights

In most situations you have only 180 days to file a complaint with the EEOC. You also have to file a complaint with the EEOC before you can file a lawsuit in civil court(most don't file lawsuits). The EEOC complaint process is supposed to be set up so that a complainant doesn't need a lawyer. The EEOC investigates the case and the complainant gets a copy of their report of investigation. In theory, all you have to do is cooperate with the investigation, and request a hearing at the appropriate time, and a judge decides the case. The reality is that cases that make it that far generally get pretty complicated, so it's a good idea to have a lawyer unless you're very familiar with how the system works.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #71)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:38 AM

75. OT, but just noticed your sig line and it took me down memory lane to

 

the Christmas present I received (the "Let It Be" LP) when I was 10 (on the Apple lable, IIRC). I played that LP into the ground

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #69)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:26 AM

74. But how much is someone drug through the mud

in defense of these claims?

What if the employer said "not only did that not happen, but the candidate smelled of alcohol - at a lunch meeting" or "we never said that and besides, the candidate showed up for the interview looking like they hadn't bathed in a week".

Sorry - I get what you are saying (and thank you immensely for taking the time to post all of this information) but I trust most people about as far as I could throw them. Color me jaded...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Major Nikon (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:29 PM

60. +1

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:04 PM

13. During my recently ended 10 month nightmare of unemployment,...

...the age discrimination was blatent and brazen.

hang in there. Someone will see your value.

PEACE!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:05 PM

14. A "hiring manager?" Not a job consultant or a headhunter, but someone who works at a place where

applied?

And she told you that you were too old for the job?

We're not talking American Idol contestant, here, are we? Otherwise...isn't that illegal? To discriminate on the basis of age?

I should think that a younger supervisor would, if they were worth their salt, welcome a diverse cadre of subordinates--and that includes someone who checks the "older, wiser, been there, done that" block. It's always nice to have someone who isn't a bit juvenile in their outlook watching your back, and an older subordinate often will do just that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to MADem (Reply #14)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:18 PM

18. She is a partner in the company... heads the local office (nt)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Reply #18)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:26 PM

20. I think you were discriminated against over lunch!

Perhaps it is a new term we can coin--you got DAOL'd!

From the eeoc--a federal entity, so there are no copyright restrictions on their work (it belongs to me, and you, and everyone else who is a citizen of the US):

Age Discrimination
Age discrimination involves treating someone (an applicant or employee) less favorably because of his age.

The Age Discrimination in Employment Act (ADEA) only forbids age discrimination against people who are age 40 or older. It does not protect workers under the age of 40, although some states do have laws that protect younger workers from age discrimination.

It is not illegal for an employer or other covered entity to favor an older worker over a younger one, even if both workers are age 40 or older.

Discrimination can occur when the victim and the person who inflicted the discrimination are both over 40.

Age Discrimination & Work Situations
The law forbids discrimination when it comes to any aspect of employment, including hiring, firing, pay, job assignments, promotions, layoff, training, fringe benefits, and any other term or condition of employment.

Age Discrimination & Harassment
It is unlawful to harass a person because of his or her age.

Harassment can include, for example, offensive remarks about a person's age. Although the law doesn't prohibit simple teasing, offhand comments, or isolated incidents that aren't very serious, harassment is illegal when it is so frequent or severe that it creates a hostile or offensive work environment or when it results in an adverse employment decision (such as the victim being fired or demoted).

The harasser can be the victim's supervisor, a supervisor in another area, a co-worker, or someone who is not an employee of the employer, such as a client or customer.

Age Discrimination & Employment Policies/Practices
An employment policy or practice that applies to everyone, regardless of age, can be illegal if it has a negative impact on applicants or employees age 40 or older and is not based on a reasonable factor other than age.


http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/age.cfm

I'm not an expert on this, but I hope someone who is pipes up to advise you--you were mistreated...and over lunch, too! The indignity! Perhaps you might sue, eh?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:09 PM

15. I'm in my mid 40s and I get told similar all the time

I'll call up a headhunter and they'll get back to me and say, "you're too senior" or "too experienced" for the role I inquired about.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:25 AM

53. If you call them, how do they know how old you are over the phone?

Do they ask you, or what? Someone in their mid-40s can have a young sounding voice, so it is hard to tell over the phone.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Quantess (Reply #53)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 02:37 PM

63. No, I'll send them my resume

and they can tell from that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to NewJeffCT (Reply #63)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 03:56 PM

66. Oh, I see.

I wonder if there is something you can tweak on your resume, like omit certain things in the distant past..?
I guess it was a good thing that I graduated college in my late 20s instead of early 20s. Maybe it makes me look younger on my resume, LOL.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:15 PM

17. Welcome to my world

I figure I will never again have traditional employment.

Should I ever be in a position to hire, I will give a preference to those who might otherwise not even be considered for employment.

I used to work for a company that made a regular practice of hiring homeless people, high school dropouts, those who had been out of the workforce for a long time, older workers, career changers, etc. It worked well for them. With very few exceptions their employees appreciated the work they had and did it well. The company paid slightly lower wages than would have been required for more skilled workers. While most of the employees moved on to better jobs, the company did not have a particularly high turnover rate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Coyote_Bandit (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:03 AM

51. Mine, too.

Nothing worse than having an interview, and then having them ask, "Are you working now?" Especially when they have the damn application right in front of them that says you aren't. Kiss that job good-bye.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to GoCubsGo (Reply #51)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:31 PM

61. I've made a point

of staying busy and learning new skills during my extended period of unemployment (years now) and I list it all on my resume. Three years as an officer in a local group of artists. A year in jewelry school. Freelance writing and editing. Small business consulting. Tax preparation work. Some graphic design work. Training and handling a dog in obedience competitions. Providing care to aging family members.

When somebody asks me "Are you working now?" I will respond, "yes, but not in the sense of having traditional employment." I'll be wearing a piece of my jewelry and I will use it as a starting point to show that I have taken the iniative to stay busy, to generate some income, and to develop new skills. That's about the best I can do with that.

I need to upgrade my computer and software soon. When I do I will probably enroll in a cheap short-term community college class. That means I'll be able to use an academic discount to purchase some of the software (and the savings will more than offset the cost of the class). It also means that I will be able to answer that question by adding that I have taken classes to upgrade and maintain my computer skills.

I see being a 50ish single highly educated female as more of a deterrent in finding employment than being unemployed while seeking work. Though that certainly does not work in my favor.

Good luck.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Fri Jun 1, 2012, 11:33 PM

21. I may be well near 60 when I next look for a job. I think there will be a huge labour shortage by

then and jobs will be aplenty.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:09 AM

23. I understand full well where you're coming from. I am a

substitute teacher in a suburban district. The district makes no bones about the fact that they are encouraging senior teachers to retire so they can replace them with wet behind the ears newly credentialed teachers age 22. Older laid off teachers need not apply. Anything to save a few dollars.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:34 AM

24. I lucked out back when I was 60 and laid off.

 

The company I was working for shut down our division and moved it overseas. I was a 60-year old computer programmer and out of work in a "young person's field". I read a Craigs list add from a start-up company that wanted an experienced programmer, but they only needed someone for about 5 years, to build their specialized e-commerce system from the ground up and train their (as yet not hired) tech support and customer service people.

Since I was planning to retire in 5 years it was a perfect fit, and they agreed, so this batch of kids in their mid 20's hired me. I worked for them for 5 years and got their system working just how they wanted it, and then gradually phased myself out over a period of 6 months, working fewer and fewer hours until I trained the tech support and customer service people they brought in. Then I retired and everybody was happy. Talk about a stroke of luck!

That was several years ago and the company is still going strong. They call me once in a while to consult for half a day, but for the most part, I set things up to be easily maintained by trained monkeys, and it's been just over a year since the last time they needed a consultation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Speck Tater (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 08:58 AM

35. That is what I would look for at this point if I went back to work -

I am in my mid-40's with experience in legal support/recruiting. After taking off time with my small children, I'd try to find an agency to work for or go to a small firm and set up their department for them. Any type of admin/recruiting/supervising support work in any small office or non-profit etc ...

Although I was great at my job in my 20s and worked at top firms I would not be able to compete with the new graduates for one of those entry-level jobs and I wouldn't want to do that job again. Sometimes it does help to think about your particularly strengths and re-frame what you are looking for.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:27 AM

29. They are really getting pickier and pickier about age.

And the Republicans want to raise the retirement age still more?

If you are too old for that job, how can anyone expect all kinds of unemployed people between 65-70 to get jobs?

Your experience is the reality. Their threats are fantasy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 08:50 AM

34. Honestly I think it's mostly the money -

they want to pay as little as possible unless they definitely need some type of experience. And then they will pay as little as they can to get that kind of experience.

There are always going to be some exceptions (and sometimes you actually find them in big companies - when departments may have a bigger budget than a small firm might), but that's the reality with capitalism.

I don't know how republicans expect people who are unemployed between 40-70 to get jobs. Maybe they are figuring the baby boom generation will eventually die off and then it will even out again (I can see them thinking this way, they are heartless bastards by and large).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to TBF (Reply #34)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:30 AM

40. Also the problem of employer-based health insurance.

Older people cost more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to woo me with science (Reply #40)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:34 AM

43. Excellent point -

that goes to bottom line as well. We need single payer in this country for so many reasons and this is yet another one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to JDPriestly (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 02:43 PM

64. Do you remember the days

when you were young and weren't hired because you "didn't have enough experience"? I'm a boomer and I certainly do! The OP's situation seems exactly the same, but in reverse!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 05:49 AM

30. Companies don't want experienced people

They want young folks who will do whatever told without having an opinion based on experience. Hang in there. I'm searching too after being laid off of my job of 21 years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 08:32 AM

31. I second, hang in there. After years of underemployment, I finally got a

better paying job with bennies. And I'm older than you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 08:43 AM

32. You didn't expect them to want an older, wiser person did you?

You can't take advantage of the wise ones. They want the young ones because most of them are too new to the world to know they are being used.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:10 AM

36. Try it in your late 50's

Last edited Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:28 PM - Edit history (1)

It sucks either way

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:15 AM

37. I was laid off when I was 60 and re-hired because of my experience

You just never know. I thought my age would work against me, but it turned out to be an asset. I am very lucky that I have a job. I know it's truly hard to get a new job after 50, much less 60.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:18 AM

38. I'm sure there's a place for a middle-aged stripper out there somewhere

 



(P.S. I'm 54 years old.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:31 AM

41. Can you sue for age discrimination?

nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:33 AM

42. Laid off in my mid-50's -

- went for one job interview I really, really wanted and would have been perfect at. Interview went very well - to the point that they were talking about "when" I came aboard. Said they had one more applicant they had already agreed to interview but that I should be prepared to start the next week. As I walked out, I walked past the final applicant in the lobby. She was 15 years younger. I knew it was all over then. The woman who would have been my supervisor was younger than I but a bit older than that final applicant.

They sent a very apologetic letter saying they had "gone in another direction". Most certainly. And that direction was younger.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lynne (Reply #42)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:42 AM

45. We really need to start naming names. See my post immediately below yours. I dare

 

mahalo.com to sue me for libel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #45)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:50 AM

54. Naming names might work for bigger firms -

- but the position I applied for was in a very small local firm. They rarely have a job opening. It would be very easy for them to say that it was some other factor - either something with me or with the other applicant - that made them go in the other direction. However, I know better.

My consolation is that the person hired has done a lousy job. The job was in marketing/networking and the place has since become almost invisible. Spiteful of me, I know.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lynne (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:11 PM

58. Love the German term for it: 'schadenfreude' (joy at another's

 

misfortune).

The 18th-centurry French epigrammatist La Rochefoucauld had a brilliant bon mot on the subject (rough translation): "There is something in the misfortune of our friends that does not deeply displease us."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:38 AM

44. Had the exact same experience when interviewing with mahalo.com. The

 

guy interviewing me also called his CEO an "asshole" so I was pretty sure I did not want to work there anyway. But, even so, it's a real dash of cold water in the face to come face to face with age discrimination in the flesh.

Here's how bad it has gotten in my case:

I am deliberately lying and omitting experience and higher degrees on my resume to conceal my age (early 50s). I figure if employers can age discriminate and get away with it, I can lie on my resume. Turn about is fair play and American capitalism deserves no less.

BTW, I would recommend that people not apply for or accept employment at mahalo.com. I am hoping if I post this story enough, I can goad them into suing me for libel. I kept notes of the interview, and truth is an absolute defense against libel.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to coalition_unwilling (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:04 PM

55. I shaved the first 15 years off my resume -

- and made sure my hair was recently colored before any further interviews. I took a good look at new hair styles and current fashion and updated my interview wardrobe. I don't mention my adult children - and certainly not my grandchildren - during the interview. And I don't make even a casual reference to anything prior to 1995 if possible. Example: Don't hum "Sympathy for the Devil" while sitting in the lobby. I try to make my age-slate totally clean of any evidence.

Of course, they're not blind but I don't want to come off too much like their mother. Luckily, I did get another job - its part time with less hours and less pay but I enjoy it much more. And most of the other employees are much younger than I!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lynne (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:08 PM

56. Goddamnit, I knew I was doing something wrong when I was

 

sitting in the lobby humming "You Can't Always Get What you Want"

In my defense, I had to hum it to get Loggins & Messina's "Your Momma Don't Dance" out of my head

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:45 AM

47. I spent last year hearing the same thing

If being laid off in your 40s is bad (it is!!), being laid of in your 50s is even rougher. "You're overqualified" is the newspeak for "we don't want to pay even what the job we've advertised is worth".

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HillWilliam (Reply #47)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 10:55 AM

50. I'm in my 60's.

I have to work for myself.

It's impossible to even get an interview now.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:09 PM

57. I believe every word of that

and it scares the hell out of me. I've been building up my microfarm, putting in crops that are easy to take care of, easy to harvest, in demand but not otherwise locally-grown, and easy to process. This might have to be my fallback.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 01:22 PM

62. I am in my 70s and I was laid off in 2010.

It was not because of my age, but the company was downsizing and three others were laid off at the same time who were a lot younger then me. Because I was already collecting social security, I decided to retire. It has been a little difficult without that extra money from the paycheck. But I knew I did not stand much chance of being hired for another job at my age.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 11:16 AM

52. I don't know why they care so much

If a person can do the job, what does it matter how old they are?

When I was young, older people got hired all the time. I mean people in their 50s and 60s. There were a lot of housewives getting into the job market for the first time.

Must be affected by the tight job market, too. It wouldn't be a problem in a good market.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 12:24 PM

59. K&R. It's an epidemic. n/t

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sat Jun 2, 2012, 06:47 PM

68. I am 55 almost 56 and the boss over me is 28

I am semi retired doing a seasonal job at box office of our local theater group. Box office manger is a young laid back guy.

I was just thrilled after my last two jobs working for republican Christians who acted anything but that, to work with two liberal guys.

I think he was just glad I am good at the computer software and can work as fast as the younger kids. Go gramma!!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:05 AM

72. I am 58 and just got a new job. Hang in there. It will happen.

What she said to you is unusual, because what she said the reason for not hiring you is, is most definitely age discrimination. But she was being honest, I guess.

She could also have meant that she was afraid you'd leave, when you found another job at a higher level. That is a concern for so-called overqualified people.

It's hard. The rejection is heartbreaking (at least it was for me). I was afraid I'd never get another job. Then one day I got two offers! It was like a miracle.

It will happen. Press on. You will find a place that will recognize your value. Older workers are more reliable and make fewer mistakes. They are less likely to miss Mondays because of a hangover, or to skip out on Fridays to start the party weekend early. Many companies recognize this.

You are not old. Unless you're in a physical vocation, you are not old enough for that to prevent you from getting another job. It WILL happen. Keep the faith, and press on. It's a sloooooow process and very stressful.

Keep in mind that you were applying for a job outside your field, it sounds like. So that's tough for ANY age. They may have been looking for someone to train and groom for a looooong work life with their company.

I wish you all the luck in the world. It WILL happen. You are NOT old! You WILL get another job.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LuckyTheDog (Original post)

Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:40 AM

76. I am right there with you, albeit a few years behind.

I think a lot of this has to do with the fact that we have employer-based medical insurance in the US. If employers weren't saddled with covering employees from day one (or 91, depending) including preexisting conditions (which can't be penalized under employer based plans), the situation would be vastly different. When the annual/biannual audits show an average age/use higher than the margins 'allow', deductibles go up, benefits get cut, and rates go up - for everyone in the company.

If we could somehow ever untangle insurance from employment and base it on payroll taxes (like FICA/Medicare), we would likely see a dynamic shift toward valuing experience. Medicare Part E - Everyone.

Take heart - there are many out there standing right with you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread