White Christian Terrorists.

[kpete]

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 11:19 AM - Edit history (1)

White anti-government protesters refuse to pay the fees they run up.
The Bundy family use of guns is terror. Taking over a government building is tyranny.

Context: “Dwight Hammond, 73, and his son Steven, 46, were sentenced to five years in prison in October for illegally setting fires on U.S. Bureau of Land Management property near Diamond, Oregon. Both men already served time for the offense, which involved setting fires that spread to government lands they leased to graze cattle, but another judge ruled that both must go back to prison because their initial sentence was too short.”

UPDATE: Right wing militia from Bundy Ranch occupy federal wildlife building in Oregon
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/or-residents-blast-trigger-happy-idiot-right-wing-militia-for-defending-ranchers-who-set-federal-land-on-fire/

A group of activists and militiamen protesting the federal prosecution of two ranchers occupied a remote federal building in the rural southeastern corner of Oregon, the authorities said.

The building seized by the group houses the offices of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, and is operated by the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, about 30 miles southeast of Burns, in Harney County.

"Activists." The article neglects to mention that they are armed. I wonder how that happened.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/oregon-ranchers-will-return-to-prison-angering-far-right-activists.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

MSM is clearly reporting this event with as much sympathy for the insurgent traitors as possible.
Susanne posted a link last night to HuffPo that is the widely-reported (by all media outlets) AP version:



http://theobamadiary.com/2016/01/03/early-bird-chat-624/#comment-1460624




Hey ABC I fixed that typo for you:
:large
https://twitter.com/TariqToure/status/683515467252772866/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

Sunday, Jan 3, 2016 · 12:57:37 AM PST · mamabigdog
Update at 9:15 p.m.:

Statement from Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward: "After the peaceful rally was completed today, a group of outside militants drove to the Malheur Wildlife Refuge, where they seized and occupied the refuge headquarters. A collective effort from multiple agencies is currently working on a solution. For the time being please stay away from that area. More information will be provided as it becomes available. Please maintain a peaceful and united front and allow us to work through this situation."

Sunday, Jan 3, 2016 · 1:35:31 AM PST · mamabigdog
Can't resist posting this one from Jim Wright at Stonekettle Station:

You know you're a badass Tea Party patriot motherfucker when your militia takes over an unprotected bird sanctuary
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/1/2/1465619/-Militia-men-occupy-federal-building-in-Burns-OR

[RKP5637]

1. Right Wing, Christian and White gets one a free pass. Deviate from that and full force

will be used against the group. I've not even heard much about it on MSM. All silent for the most part on national news. I first heard of it on DU and then Google News.

[malaise]

12. CNN has coverage

now

[RKP5637]

13. Thanks!

[pandr32]

2. The Bundy clan are not "Christian"

...but Mormon, and not very contemporary Mormons either, but old-school like in the nineteenth century. Mormons have declared war on America before and caused a whole lot of death and destruction to 'real' American militia personal (cavalry and other U.S. forces) and many innocent non-Mormon people. So-called Mormon "militia" back in the 1800's disguised themselves as Indians to massacre settlers and wreak havoc. The Mormon founder, Smith, died in a shoot-out after trying to escape custody.

[grossproffit]

3. Great post.

[pandr32]

5. Thank you

Best to you

[Bonx]

57. Unfortunately, the OP will not respond or change the title

strictly a hit and run poster.

[cali]

4. Oh baloney. I'm so tired of people claiming everything is terrorism

[Dr. Strange]

9. That's exactly the sort of thing a terrorist would say.

Hmmmm....

[cali]

14. Lol. Yes, I'm really a terrorist. Pathetic. Just pathetic

[Dr. Strange]

20. I tease the cali.

Actually, I agree with you. Calling every-fucking-thing terrorism is cheapening the word.

[Old Codger]

31. Not terrorism

Plain old fashioned thuggery, they got away with it once so now are trying again... They were down here near me when the deal went down about the mining claim same thing here the ones arguing with government told them to stay away but they came anyway set up a tent and had it there for about a month..

[Bjorn Against]

19. Not everything is terrorism, but this is a clear act of terrorism

Last edited Sun Jan 3, 2016, 01:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I would generally agree that the word terrorism gets tossed around too freely, but when an armed group takes over a federal building and threatens violence against anyone who tries to remove them that seems to be a pretty clear cut case of terrorism to me.

[Nye Bevan]

42. Everything is either "terrorism" or a "microaggression" these days (nt)

[EL34x4]

6. No fan of the Bundy militia types but...

"Both men already served time for the offense, which involved setting fires that spread to government lands they leased to graze cattle, but another judge ruled that both must go back to prison because their initial sentence was too short.”

When in the hell did we start doing this?

[jberryhill]

8. Start doing what?

There is a mandatory minimum of five years for arson. The judge illegally gave them a lower sentence, which the appellate court threw out.

Are you asking when did we start applying the federal sentencing law?

Or are you asking when did appellate courts have authority to modify decisions of district courts?

Or are you asking when did we start using courts at all?

[EL34x4]

11. Start telling people to report back to prison to serve more time

because, it turns out, the original sentence that they served wasn't long enough?

Is nobody else troubled by this?

[jberryhill]

15. "wasn't long enough"

In your mind, should courts apply the law or not?

The Hammonds, incidentally, are peacefully returning.

There is nothing in the law that says you get to take over a federal building if you are confused about someone else's case.

[EL34x4]

16. I am not defending taking over a federal building

Not by a long shot.

I am merely stating my belief that there is something inherently un-American about forcing people who have already served out their prison sentences to report back to prison to serve more time.

[MohRokTah]

17. They had not served out their sentence, though.

The mandatory minimum was five years, regardless.

They failed to serve five years.

[jberryhill]

21. They have not "already served their sentences"

Their sentences were on appeal while they had begun serving them.

The appeals court - you know, the whole "nation of laws" thing - determined the trial judge had erred in the initial sentencing, and they have to serve the correct sentence.

It was the original sentence which did not comport with the law.

Should the law be followed or not?

[Reter]

24. No

Once the first judge decided (illegally) to give them a shorter sentence, you can't get their hopes up and say tell them they will serve that time, and then free them, and a while later tell them to report back. It's very messed up.

[jberryhill]

25. Please cite the statute in question

What section of 28 USC are you applying in your legal analysis?

[treestar]

48. The judge did the wrong thing

but that can't be allowed to stand because it will hurt the Hammonds' expectations. No doubt their lawyer explained the problem to them.

[Reter]

22. They should have decided that while they were in prison

Once you come out and are free, it's too late to say the time was too short. Not their problem a judge messed up. If I buy a house for $200,000, you can't say "Oh wait, it was supposed to be $300,000, he made a mistake."

[jberryhill]

23. I'm sorry that's not how this works

We can make things up as we go along, follow the process we have, or change the process.

Yes, we have appellate courts which are empowered to correct legal errors by trial courts. Things like damage awards in civil cases or sentences in criminal cases are subject to appellate review. It does not work at all like your house buying example.

[Reter]

26. OK I got a compromise

They report back to jail to serve their remaining time. Then they are given a large cash award because of what was wrongfully told to them by the first judge. Seems fair.

[jberryhill]

29. Obviously their defense lawyers don't know what they are doing

[Reter]

33. Yeah, they probably could have gotten something out of it

All of them are just nuts.

[2naSalit]

36. The judge who gave them the light sentence

did so illegally and was likely bought off... he retired shortly thereafter. the new judge is correcting the illegality of his predecessor.

But that doesn't often figure in armchair, Monday morning quarterbacking.

[Reter]

40. The judge should do time if he was bought off

They should investigate.

[2naSalit]

41. Agreed. But not likely to happen. nt

[MohRokTah]

7. Coddling terrorists results in Armed Insurrecion.

That's the REAL headline here.

[Scuba]

10. Holy crap! We agree on something!

[JEB]

18. Those yahoos better clear out before

Spring migration or they will have a horde of pissed off birdwatchers to deal with.

[HereSince1628]

27. Wearing a label "US PATRIOT" to try to convince others that their eyes are lying

It's sort of like "Gott Mit Uns" on the Nazi soldiers' belt buckles.

[Nye Bevan]

28. There would be a lot more outrage if they had ever killed or injured anyone (nt)

[leftyladyfrommo]

30. Christian and terrorist us an oxymoron.

These good ole boys are simply white assholes who think they are hot shit.

[2naSalit]

37. They are, however, seditionists. nt

[leftyladyfrommo]

43. They are just dumb creeps.

I just hate guys like this. Fat bellies and no brains.

[2naSalit]

44. Sadly,

they comprise a greater portion of the population than most anticipate.

[leftyladyfrommo]

45. I don't know.

Seems to be a lot of that going around in KC. Them and their big macho trucks.

All stupider than a box of rocks.

[2naSalit]

46. It's big time stuff

out here in the Rockies. And yes, dumber than a box of rocks... with gunz.

[leftyladyfrommo]

50. When you don't have anything else to offer

I guess you can make yourself fell like hotstuff if you have a gun.

It's really pretty pathetic. Unfortunately some of them are also dangerous. A whole bunch of them are just blowhards trying to look like a big deal. And when you see pictures of them standing there with their legs spread apart and rocking back they just look like those awful dumb characters in Deliverance.

[2naSalit]

53. I think of it as

New Age Weenie Waving. If they were actually confronted with actual threats to their lives, immediately following the first few casualties on their side they would all be looking for a hole to hide in. Most are 4F chickenhawks... ut there are quite a few of them in ID, MT, SD, ND, NV... much of the west.

See what happens when education is defunded and religions are allowed to act as governing entities in a region? Privatization reinforces crap like this. These people are sheeple at best because they aren't smart enough to actually think.

[LittleBlue]

32. How many have they killed?

What's the death toll now?

They're morons, not terrorists. At least until they start shooting.

[Nye Bevan]

39. Also, how many have they seriously wounded? (nt)

[Bjorn Against]

52. They have threatened violence against law enforcement

Taking over a federal building with guns and threatening violence against law enforcement is clearly terrorism.

[Bjorn Against]

49. They have used the threat of violence to intimidate, they are terrorists

They have engaged in an armed takeover of a federal building and have threatened violence against law enforcement if they attempt to remove them. That is terrorism.

[LittleBlue]

54. Okay. So how many have they shot at or killed?

I want numbers.

[Bjorn Against]

55. Threats of violence are terrorism.

I don't need to wait until there is a body count to say that an armed takeover of a federal building is terrorism. Hopefully no one will be killed because of their actions, but unfortunately there is a good chance that there will be people killed if they don't surrender soon. They may not have taken any lives yet, but they are certainly putting lives in danger.

[LittleBlue]

56. So, nobody? Okay

That's all I needed to know.

[Bjorn Against]

58. So does an armed takeover of a federal building become acceptable if no one is killed?

[LittleBlue]

59. Who said it's acceptable? They just arent equivalent to terroritst, that's all

If all the terrorists did was this, we wouldn't have so many dying from terrorism. Terrorists don't announce they'll peacefully go to jail afterward.

[Bjorn Against]

61. These people never announced they will peacefully go to jail either

In fact they have explicitly stated that they will use violence. Stop trying to downplay what these terrorists are doing.

[LittleBlue]

62. If all terrorists acted like these guys, hundreds of thousand of people would be alive today

It's why even DU isn't buying this argument. Smells of desperation.

[Bjorn Against]

63. So now armed takeovers of federal buildings could save hundreds of thousands of lives?

Do you even realize how absurd that argument is?

[LittleBlue]

64. Weak

Reread what I wrote. Actually no you're just going on ignore.

The fact that you have to troll like this shows you don't even believe your own argument.

[Bjorn Against]

65. I did read what you wrote and it is ridiculous

You said, "If all terrorists acted like these guys, hundreds of thousand of people would be alive today".

And how did these guys act? By engaging in an armed takeover of a federal building and threatening violence if law enforcement tries to remove them.

I am sorry but suggesting that kind of behavior could save hundreds of thousands of lives is absurd.

[Jim Beard]

66. Even TALK like this on an airplane and see what happens.

[Old Codger]

34. I doubt

They are any sort of militia, the word gives them some sort of legitimacy and they really have none..

[rockfordfile]

35. I think they're getting there

They are clearly right wing idiots.

[Vinca]

38. Lucky for them they're all white. Otherwise this would be over and the body bags would be lined up.

[Jim Beard]

47. I have been wondering that myself

What would be happening if the ones taking over the federal facility were black people. Any one have an example?

[Agnosticsherbet]

51. There must be something different from this group of men and those in this historical news clipping.

[larkrake]

60. just burn it down. Federal land belongs to all, not a few red neck terrorists