"I feel like I could wipe a tiger's ass with sandpaper."

[MADem]

If that subject line got your attention, this story might, too. A retired Army general said that after getting released on his own recognizance following an altercation and subsequent arrest. He also said if any of the military police under his command treated people like he was treated, he'd courts martial them.

I'm betting this four star general is not a Democrat, and who knows, he might even be guilty of doing what he's charged with doing, but when one of "them" gets trashed and brutalized by the popo, maybe the whole "police brutality/overreach" issues might actually take hold as a campaign issue. It's not just young black men who are getting a beat down, it's old white men, too. He's lucky to be alive. The story:


http://www.rawstory.com/2015/08/retired-army-general-ashamed-to-be-an-american-after-rough-arrest-by-georgia-cops/


Retired Army general ‘ashamed to be an American’ after rough arrest by Georgia cops

.....“It’s the first time in my life I’m ashamed to be an American,” 84-year-old William J. Livsey told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution. “They took me away without my shoes, glasses or medicine. I fought for this country so hard, and I’ve tried to do good all my life.”

Livsey was arrested at his home on Saturday and charged with simple assault, robbery, misdemeanor obstruction, theft and making terroristic threats. Police said he grabbed the driver by the throat and pinned him against a refrigerator when Livsey’s debit card was not accepted and the driver said he could not take a check to pay for an order..... the former commander of US forces in South Korea then resisted when officers tried to handcuff him, before attempting to “punch one of the officers and kick another one all while making threatening and disparaging remarks.” Ten officers were reportedly called to the scene.

“Just blown out of proportion,” a neighbor told WSB-TV. “Way too many police for that. Way too many. And the way they handcuffed him was ridiculous.”

The Journal-Constitution noted that a portion of Highway 314 in town was renamed the “General Bill Livsey Highway” in Livsey’s honor. He retired from duty in 1987, following a career that saw him win the Distinguished Flying Cross, Silver Star and Distinguished Service Medal, among other honors.

Livsey’s bond was originally set at $12,000, but he said a local judge released him on his own recognizance.....

There's film at the link...! You can see the wounds to his arms, they're not inconsequential.

[Tarheel_Dem]

1. Bookmarking for later. Thanks. n/t

[MADem]

14. The police really have too much time on their hands that they'll go beat up old men on canes...! nt

[pinboy3niner]

2. You and I both know that we COULD...but we wouldn't

Though in Vietnam we did blow an ambush on a tiger once. We reacted to movement, and in the blast of the claymores we saw a tiger leaping away.

And while we carried a ton of shit in our rucks, one thing they forgot to give us was asswiping sandpaper.

[MADem]

3. I wonder if the poor tiger made it? ..... Bet he wasn't too fond of human tartare after that!!!

You'd think some one of those military-industrial providers would have thought to include the all-important SANDPAPER in the kit!!!!!

[pinboy3niner]

6. They only provided the cheap sandpaper toilet paper for OUR butts

The tigers were on their own.

[MADem]

7. Ha ha ha ha!!!!

Tracing paper!!!!!!!

[pinboy3niner]

10. Don't laugh

The Army was prepared to deal with the intestinal issues of its troops in the field. If you were runny your medic always had charcoal pills to give you. If you were were stopped up, he'd recommend eating more C-rats. We were out in the field for a month at a time, so our medic was our entire health care system. A guy who got drafted and spent a few months at medic school.

[MADem]

11. OK, where's that damn tiger?

[pinboy3niner]

12. That looks like what they gave us with our C-rats.

Except we only got it in tiny wads with our rations

[MADem]

13. Ha ha ha .....

Tiny wads, you say? OUCH!!!!!!

[pinboy3niner]

29. The funny thing is that I would never use the General's expression

We considered ourselves pretty tough in combat, and proved it, but who the hell wants to wipe a tiger's ass?

[MADem]

31. I found the expression curious in the extreme, too--but funny.

I suppose it's a bit more of an aggressive stance than 'Grabbing the tiger by the tail,' or something! I imagine the tiger would be greatly ... displeased!!!

[pinboy3niner]

32. It's just another of those crude macho expressions that perplex women

Though they learn early that their men are prone to crude macho expressions. I have no idea why they put up with us.

[11 Bravo]

26. Rifle? Check. Steel Pot? Check. Canteens? Check. Frags? Check.

C-rats? Check. Smoke? Check. M60 ammo? Check. M16 bandoliers? Check. Claymore? Check. Trip flares? Check. Poncho and liner? Check. E-tool? Check? Sandpaper? Sorry El-Tee, no can do. I guess I'll have to sit this one out!

[MADem]

27. ............

[pinboy3niner]

30. LOL!

You can always tell somebody who's really been there. Glad you made it, brother.

[11 Bravo]

34. Back at you, my brother.

We may be getting a little older, and a little creakier; but we'll continue to keep the faith.

[Enthusiast]

4. Cops are just bad.

[MADem]

5. Ten police to handle an old man on a cane?

And then it turns out he's a four star general and has a highway named after him?

It's like "What were they thinking?"

[Enthusiast]

8. If he was black or emotionally impaired he would be a dead 84 year old.

[MADem]

9. Probably so.

I hope he helps to elevate the discussion--and he wipes those tigers' asses with sandpaper!

[treestar]

15. doesn't sound like a sympathetic victim this time

He doesn't like the way they handcuffed him? He's 84 and involved in an assault?

What I really love is the way he thinks he deserves to never be arrested due to his past military service. We really do work too hard at pumping up the egos of the military.

[Flying Squirrel]

17. There we go.

Not that I think the cops were justified but it's about time someone on this thread pointed out what an unsympathetic victim this guy is.

[MADem]

22. He's entirely unsympathetic, AND he's white.

But that's the point, really.

Does a "perp" or a "suspect" have to be "sympathetic" in order for the police to not brutalize them?
If that's the case, most people resisting arrest or running from the police might as well prepare for the bullet in their back that will end their lives.

The point this "unsympathetic victim" raises is this: Was that an appropriate use of force against an eighty four year old shoeless, glasses-less man on a cane?

Sometimes, the most effective advocates are not "perfect" but they have other qualities that point out that there's something wrong with the damn system. In this case, the victim/perp has a known reputation and he is the "right" color to draw attention to police abuses and overreach. It's a win-win for people who are tired of being afraid of the people who are supposed to protect and serve.

Why was a crew of squad cars called out to "subdue" an eighty four year old man? Why was such excessive force used? What is wrong with the police that they would think this is OK? Why didn't maybe the 2nd, 3rd or 4th cop on the scene say "Shit, man, this is overkill...?" A total of TEN cops ended up at this guy's house--and they charged him with "Making terroristic threats?"

Come on. That's just crazy.

[MADem]

18. Watch the video.

He is no saint but excessive force is excessive force.

[awoke_in_2003]

19. Gonna have to agree with you here. nt

[MADem]

23. TEN cops? For an octegenarian?

That must be one UNFIT police force if they can't handle a shoeless, no-glasses eighty-four year old guy with a cane with fewer than ten people. And then they charge Mister Magoo with making terroristic threats? Really?

It doesn't matter how "nice" the arrested individual is or was. His innocence or guilt is unimportant, here, too--the judge deals with that. What matters is that the police department behaved in a clownish, brutish and unprofessional fashion. They used excessive force by ANY measure--which is what the neighbors were saying in the video at the link. Ten police showed up to arrest this old man. Instead of defusing a situation they elevated it. The cuts on his arms (see the video) are ugly and deep.

Maybe instead of saying "Oh well, they" (whoever they are, all these victims of the police) "deserved it," maybe we should be saying, "These public servants should be doing a little more SERVING of the public and less serving up a beat-down."

I hope this guy helps to bring attention to the issue of police over-reaction. It's not about innocence or guilt--it's about way too much use of force. If they aren't electrocuting people with tasers, they're using ten cops to deliver a Sharks v. Jets gang-style beat - down. They need to learn to DEFUSE a situation, and maybe equip some of these cops with net guns or something. What they are doing nowadays plainly does not work.

[awoke_in_2003]

24. The number of police is overkill

But what I am objecting to is that just because he is 80 and served his country does not give him the right to choke someone, then try to punch and kick people while being arrested. His bringing up his service as justification for his actions is BS.

[MADem]

25. You didn't read the piece or see the video, I take it. Or you didn't process the material.

He is 84, and someone who lived IN the home takes issue with the account re: the delivery man that the police are providing--we've never heard that before, have we?

Those police ALWAYS tell the truth about what happened when they arrest someone, don't they?

He's telling the reporter that if his MPs behaved like the police did, he'd courts-martial them.

I think it's interesting that you allow the police to substitute as judge and jury, and find the overkill of ten cops to subdue an elderly, crippled man justified because you believe what they are saying, and not the person in the house OR the neighbors on the street (who were interviewed for the report).

Hmmm.

Most people who are accused of crimes aren't terribly lovable. Doesn't mean they don't have rights. Body cameras would solve a lot of these problems.

[awoke_in_2003]

28. I knee jerked

I saw an a well to do (generals make good money and have great pensions) white man complaining about police tactics, when police are killing African Americans for merely existing, then bringing his service into the argument. At first look, to me it smacked of entitlement. I apologize for my error. I should have read the whole thing.

On edit- I am not one who is prone to blindly defending th police, and I think my history bears that out. I think most of them are out of control jack boots with a steroid problem.

[MADem]

33. I think we are on the same page. I don't think this guy is

a poster child for "Sweet little elderly fella abused by Big Bad Cops" themes, but that's kind of what makes him an ideal example for the whole "police overreach" conversation. If they can take this guy out with such brutality, who, really, is "safe?'

It goes to judgment, really, that the police couldn't find a way to de-escalate this issue. He's an old man with swollen feet/no shoes on, no glasses on, with a cane. He wasn't waving a gun or a machete or anything like that. All the police had to do was keep some distance (so he couldn't wave his cane, if he had a mind) and TALK to the guy. Instead, they overreacted to what may have been a hyperbolic report, and brought ten cop cars to take this guy out.

I really think that police need to be smarter than they are nowadays. Some departments limit the IQ of patrol officers because they fear they'll get bored (that is the excuse I've seen, anyway) but I think we need people who are smarter and trained in conflict resolution, not escalation/beat downs.

It's because he's old, and white, and a general, that he could end up being helpful to the whole 'police brutality' cause--if he had a mind to take his sandpaper out and wipe that tiger's ass with it...! I won't hold my breath but I'd sure love to see it...!

[steve2470]

16. Just fucking ridiculous he was roughed up so bad

All it would have taken is ONE competent cop to calm his ass down and calmly arrest him.

I hope when I'm 84 *knock on wood* the cops treat me better, hopefully I never see the cops at that age.

As someone else said, if he had been black, he'd be dead right now.

[Jeneral2885]

20. all of you people never give a damn about the delivery boy he assaulted?

So next time try this at home and bloody tell the police you dont deserve it.

Sigh.

[MADem]

21. First of all, that's not quite proven yet. Secondly, if he did assault the delivery boy

there will be a day in court for that.

Did you not hear the remarks from his neighbors in the video? There may be an element of hyperbole in the charges against the man.

Time will tell.

What's important is this--innocent or guilty, was, or was not, that an excessive use of force against an eighty four year no-shoes/no-glasses/on a cane old man?

If you think it's "OK" that a horde of police jumped on this old guy and shredded his arms into strips because he was accused of something, and then threw him in jail without his necessary medications, then we all might as well just take the presumption of innocence and flush it.

Sometimes a person doesn't have to be a good role model to be a useful and effective one. It was all very well and good when the police were jumping on, beating up, killing young black people (oh well, they deserved it/why did they run/all they had to do is be nice to the popo...blah, blah, blah)--but when it gets closer to white America's home, maybe the issue of police brutality, police overreach, police militarization, police excessive force, etc. etc., might finally start getting a hearing.