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dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:13 AM Jul 2015

Question for Brit/Europe DU members

I am reading this am:
Eurotunnel warns of further lengthy delays due to 'migrant activity' -

details here:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-33662489

that somehow migrant activity in ...France, looks like..is keeping Euro tunnel traffic stopped and blocked for days.

But does not explain HOW that is blocking the runnel traffic.

Anyone got any info.....links to more info?

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

muriel_volestrangler

(101,311 posts)
2. They often have to suspend the service when the migrants get onto the tracks
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:47 AM
Jul 2015
14 July 2015

Three migrants have been injured after a "large number" broke into the French Channel Tunnel terminal, its operator has said.

Two were discovered on a train bound for the UK, while the other was found near the tracks at about 02:00 BST.

Services were disrupted after the tunnel was closed for around 90 minutes, a Eurotunnel spokesman said.

On 7 July, a migrant died after apparently jumping on to a freight train heading for the UK.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-33518162

(same incident: 1 seriously injured and 2 hurt from electric shocks)

Channel Tunnel: Migrant 'dies on train trying to reach the UK' after 400 people try to storm tunnel

DFW

(54,370 posts)
3. If you've ever been to the French side of the tunnel entrance
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 11:52 AM
Jul 2015

It practically looks like a huge refugee camp all by itself. Britain is not part of the Schengen Treaty, so there are still border controls between Britain and the Continent. There are untold numbers of people from countries that were British colonies (Pakistan, Ghana, India, Zimbabwe) that have relatives or connections already in Britain. Many of the have made it into the EU somewhere (usually Italy or Greece, which means, once in, they can travel visa-free to France). If they don't have visas to enter Britain, they can't enter legally, so they try to sneak in any way they can. Sneaking into a truck or onto a train are two options, but just trying to walk through the tunnel is a desperation move. So as not to smash these people into ground meat, the tunnel authorities don't send traffic through as usual if they know there are people in there, but as it is a huge link in the road between Britain and the Continent, it would be like shutting down every bridge over the Mississippi River because someone on a bike was spotted in one of the car lanes on one of them. It causes mass chaos, tempers will rise, and the border guards will be ordered to get meaner next time.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
5. Thank you for that excellent summary.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:15 PM
Jul 2015

The EU seems to have a lot of problems with its structure.

Can hardly wait for the climate refugees to be moving around the globe.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
7. The EU was a great idea that got corrupted by ambition and greed
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:41 PM
Jul 2015

The original idea behind it was to form a political and commercial union that would bind the former enemies of World War II together so closely that another war between them would be inconceivable. Konrad Adenauer of Germany and DeGaulle of France (who spoke excellent German, by the way) led the way. At first there was the Common Market, consisting of only France, Germany Italy and the Benelux countries. Italy was the poor man of the group, but with enough agricultural and industrial potential that it was considered a good choice for membership. The EEC (European Economic Community) then started expanding, and pulled in some not-so-good fits. Countries like Portugal and Spain were weaker economically and started draining funds, where countries like Denmark, Sweden, Finland and Austria could carry their own weight, though too small to contribute much economically. Admitting Britian was hotly contested on both side of the Channel, and whereas bringing in the Baltic countries didn't place a huge strain, bringing in the countries of Eastern Europe and the Balkans did. The Schengen treaty, which abolished border and customs controls between participants at first encompassed a few countries between whom the border controls had become practically meaningless. Luxembourg, Belgium, Holland, France, Germany, Austria--these countries had huge cross border traffic and practically never caught bad elements traveling between them. But the bringing in the countries of Eastern Europe and the Balkans meant that these countries could practically export their unemployment westward, and at the same time open their countries for big industries of the west, who were only too happy to close factories at home (and toss millions out of work) and reopen them in the poorer (and hence low wage) countries of the the East.

This also turned out to be an unintended boon to right wing movements all over western Europe, who were suddenly furnished with an influx of organized crime from the east as well as beggars en masse. NOW they had something to whine about, instead of only complaining about too many Pizza parlors or Döner stands. As you can see in France, and even "anything-goes" Holland, they are no longer fringe movements to be laughed at. Now they are winning elections and sending members to parliament due to the shortsightedness of an overly "tolerant" (and overly bureaucratic) EU policy up to now.

It is way more complicated than just this, but it is an introduction as to why it was a great idea that got diluted and then lost. The EU has gotten so tangled up in its bureaucracy, it is starting to look like some of the so-called "socialist" nations of the former Warsaw Pact that also collapsed under their own bureaucracy. If you ever get to see the movie "The Lives Of Others," it is about the former East German secret police and the collapse of their country. My wife saw it twice, once in Leipzig, in the former East Germany, and once with me in Düsseldorf, in the west. In Düsseldorf, the moment the film was over, people were discussing the film like crazy. In Leipzig, when the film ended, she said the whole audience was just sitting in stunned silence, as their whole past had just been relived before their eyes on the screen. The Oscar it received for best "foreign" film was well-deserved.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
8. Fascinating information, and I thank you so much for this.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jul 2015

Tis rather difficult to get beyond our americanized viewpoint, even with the puter.
I shall put the movie on my Netflix list.

I just found and posted an interesting article about the IMF which is having problems holding to its original origin agreement.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/111669918

Sounds like both organizations are having rendings and ruptures.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
9. When you create bureaucratic jobs, and give them to people who have power but no clue
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:37 PM
Jul 2015

They get around to exercising that power, and continue to have no clue. People suffer as a result.

Now the German finance minister has just suggested that all EU taxes from the Euro zone go into one pot, and that an Über-finance minister get control over the whole thing. No more national finance ministers or national allocation of resources. Some else will decide that. Shut up and go along. This kind of centralized planning is exactly why the Soviet Union never got anywhere as an economic power. Unknowing, uncaring bureaucrats had unlimited power, and could not be challenged by anyone lower down, and don't even bother to pose a question or make a protest as a private person--who asked them anyway? You trying to get yourself arrested or what? The State knows best. Be a conformist or be a convict, your call.

Say a new EU finance minister comes from Romania, one of the EU's poorest nations, and one being strangled by corruption at the highest levels. He suddenly decides that highways and docks need to be built in Romania, and (by pure coincidence, of course) by companies owned by his relatives in Romania. He raises taxes on the whole EU (i.e. mostly Germany) and the Germans can all go emigrate to Australia if they don't like it. A guy I know in southern Germany (no millionaire, by the way) just heard this and is making plans, as of today, to leave and apply for residence and citizenship in Switzerland. He won't be the first or the last. The EU is fast becoming a huge unfeeling bureaucracy run by people who have lived of other people's taxes all their lives, and never contributed anything to society themselves. Now they want to collect and distribute this huge pot of money in ways that only they decide. No popular input needed or desired, thank you very much.

This is just a suggestion, and with the speed things get acted upon in the EU, probably not something we'll see in 5 years if at all. But still, even the fact that the conservative finance minister of Germany has tossed out the suggestion is freaking out people who had just gotten used to their votes counting for something. I live in Germany, and my German wife was just as appalled as I was.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
10. In all seriousness, I don't get why THEY didn't get that when the EU was just an idea.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 02:49 PM
Jul 2015

any family in the states with less fortunate and perhaps shiftless relatives could have seen what was coming.

Watching Greece sell its sovereignty is a pretty instructive moment also.

amazing what you can talk people into.
I wish I did not have a conscience.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
11. France and Germany were long run by bureaucrats
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 03:01 PM
Jul 2015

They didn't know anything else. But the damage was always limited if the authority of the bureaucrats didn't go beyond national borders. Look at the man who designed the Endlösung ("final solution," i.e. the systematic extermination of the Jews) at the Wannseekonferenz in 1942. Often sons of successful men who needed to show that they could accomplish something, too. They designed a thoroughly bureaucratic way of registering how much progress they were making. Tattooing numbers on Jews' wrists for ID purposes? Bureaucracy run wild. And now it's all computerized.......

Greece had a system (sort of inherited from the Turks) where one in four (!!!!!) improvrkers is a government employee. That they didn't figure out that an economy needs a few more givers and a few less takers led to their current bankruptcy. Bureaucracies set in their ways rarely (if ever) improve on their own initiative.

Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
12. He's doing it in the response to the French call for a Euro government
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 03:35 PM
Jul 2015

The French would not like such an arrangement AT ALL.

A lot of this is inter-Euronation politics cloaked in the guise of reform/progress suggestions.

This suggestion is a jab at France, who would never let this happen.

DFW

(54,370 posts)
13. I haven't heard any reactions from France yet
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 05:05 PM
Jul 2015

I'm on vacation, remember!
But since my life's partner is German, and she's here with me, and my colleague in Augsburg emailed me with the article, I did get a few German reactions. I also read the letters to the editor in the paper that published the article, and out of 48, 47 trashed the notion.

Nye Bevan

(25,406 posts)
4. Shouldn't getting into the tunnel on foot be as hard as getting on an airport runway?
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 12:29 PM
Jul 2015

I would think there is a huge security issue, that the tunnel would be a very tempting terrorist target.

dixiegrrrrl

(60,010 posts)
6. I thought the same while riding BART in SF after 9-11.
Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:18 PM
Jul 2015

I even had to report a suspicious bag left by a passenger who jumped up from is seat at the last minute and off the subway one day.
The train operator causally said she would take a look at it at the end of the line ( 6 stops away).

I did not ride that train any further, and was appalled at such an attitude.

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