Sandra Bland Was Murdered

[Sunlei]

...........

Media scandals are like criminal trials. They're about assigning blame. Because Bland may have technically taken her own life, the blame is now mostly going to fall on a woman with a history of depression and drugs, instead of on a criminal justice system that morally, if not legally, surely murdered Sandra Bland.
Backing up: It's been interesting following conservative news outlets after the Bland case. They've been conspicuously quiet this week, holstering the usual gloating backlash of the "He'd be alive today, if he'd just obeyed the law" variety............

.....It's hard to wrap one's head around the absurdity of someone like Hawkins imagining to himself that black America has not already tried using the word "sir" as a strategy to avoid beatings and killings. But over and over again, we heard stuff like this from the Fox/Real Clear crowd, which as time passed flailed around with increasing desperation in search of a non-racial explanation for all of these violent episodes..............

........Suddenly even hardcore law-and-order enthusiasts are realizing the criminal code is so broad and littered with so many tiny technical prohibitions that a determined enough police officer can stop and/or arrest pretty much anybody at any time. But while playing things cool might prevent killings in some instances, it won't stop police from stopping people without reason, putting their hands on suspects or jailing people like Bland for infractions that at most would earn a white guy in a suit a desk ticket. That's not just happening in a few well-publicized cases a year, but routinely, in hundreds of thousands or even millions of incidents we never hear of.

That's why the issue isn't how Sandra Bland died, but why she was stopped and detained in the first place. It's profiling, sure, but it's even worse than that. It's a systematic campaign to harass people, using misdemeanors and violations as battering ram – a campaign that's been going on forever, and against which there's little defense. When the law can be stretched to mean almost anything, obeying it is no magic bullet..........

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/sandra-bland-was-murdered-20150724?page=3

[djean111]

1. Yes. No matter what the actual cause of death is, Sandra was murdered by the System. n/t

[Calista241]

2. While I don't agree with some of what the author says...

I do think the laws today are over broad. Meaning that almost anyone, at any given time, is guilty of something that could land them in jail.

Our criminal justice system needs reform in the worst way.

[uponit7771]

3. +1, Americans are not more criminal than the rest of the world

[Igel]

8. Yes, laws are very often over-broad.

And when they're not, lawyers make them over-broad.

Laws should be narrowly tailored and the rules of construction such that they're forced to be narrowly tailored.

This has consequences, though. You look at a lot of the most favored SCOTUS or Federal court decisions and you'll find that the ones we often like the best are those that are as broadly construed as possible. If you like a living Constitution, then that attitude will filter down so that the laws are "living" and mean pretty much what anybody wants them to mean. If you like a Constitution that are words written at a specific time on paper with a procedure to have those words changed, then that's the kind of laws you're likely to produce.

A lot of most-favored executive actions are based on the same principle: laws were broadly written and liberally construed, so the kinds of authority that the executive has to decide to not enforce laws or to create what amounts to a new protected class weren't available, and had they been there'd have been hell to pay.

We love broadly written, broadly construed laws when they go our way. When they don't, we demand narrowly construed, narrowly written laws. What matters to us is that we decide the laws based on what suits us now--not others, and not last month or next month. And that's the first problem, having an entire society increasingly built on that principle.

[Sunlei]

4. Bland was on her way to a new job at Prairie A&M university when she was pulled over for failing to

Bland was on her way to a new job at Prairie A&M university when she was pulled over for failing to signal when changing lanes, something roughly 100 percent of American drivers do on a regular basis. Irritated at being stopped, she was curt with Encina when he wrote her up. He didn't like her attitude and decided to flex his muscles a little, asking her to put out her cigarette.

[tblue]

9. And she changed lanes because he came up

behind her, tried to get out of his way! Oh that poor woman.

[Glimmer of Hope]

44. I didn't know that. Damn it!

[DhhD]

102. The complete video shows him turning around and speeding like mad to catch up to her.

Traffic was low. He could be a maniac with little notice. He got dismissed by the TX Department of Public Service, head. TX Highway Patrol, patrol out of town, in county areas, while city police cruse city streets. A Sheriff has deputies that can be called to patrol city streets if needed. So why did he not just keep on heading out into the county or rual countryside? How about a young black woman with an out of state license tag pulling into another lane thinking this officer was speeding to a county road or state highway call, out in between two towns.

In my opinion, the State of Texas needs to let him go. Taxpayers are not paying for this king of protection and service.

[Facility Inspector]

112. The incident happened on US Hwy 290

DPS can pull you over ANYWHERE in Texas.

[Travis_0004]

79. she didn't signal and rolled a stop sign before that.

He probably did a U turn to pull her over for that, in which case her changing lanes had nothing to do with it.

[Facility Inspector]

111. this is correct

but no one will ever hear it.

[cstanleytech]

16. "I" use my signals when changing lanes.

That aside there is an large number idiots in my specific part of the state where I live who don't signal to pass or change lanes and they also go anywhere from 10 to 30 mph over the speed limit.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

52. Goody for you. But if someday you somehow neglected to do so,

would you expect to be arrested and later die in a jail cell? Of course people should signal their turns and lane changes, but sometimes they don't. Would you agree that they shouldn't wind up dead for that transgression?

[cstanleytech]

62. No I would not expect that to happen because the odds of that are statistically low.

As for her death in this case so far there hasn't been anything that contradicts the suicide ruling, I say so far because the medical examiner for the family has not released their report which could change it from a suicide to a homicide.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

63. Do you think it was OK for her to have been arrested and jailed

for having failed to signal a lane change? Whether it was murder or suicide, she wouldn't be dead now if some asshole cop hadn't thought it reasonable to arrest non-signalling lane-changers. Or maybe just black non-signalling lane-changers.

I don't suppose you are black, because if you were, the odds of something like that happening wouldn't be so statistically low.

[cstanleytech]

73. If that the the sole reason she was arrested, No. Was that the sole reason she was arrested? No.

She was arrested I believe for resisting arrest and probably interfering with a police officer, a good lawyer could and probably would have gotten all of the charges dismissed once they got access to the dashcam though and saw that the officer instigated the chain of events with his attitude.

[Uncle Joe]

93. If Bland was "arrested for resisting arrest" then the arrest came first or there

wouldn't have been anything to resist.

It all boils down to Bland was arrested because she wasn't in a good mood, was honest in stating that to the officer and he didn't like her attitude.

I agree the whole thing would've been dismissed, but she sat in jail for three days all because of a bad attitude, that's tragically ridiculous.

[cstanleytech]

96. She didnt have sit for 3 days if she bonded out which makes me wonder why her parents did

didnt bond her out.
I mean if they are of limited means like me ya 5000 or even 500 would be impossible but on another thread someone claimed they were well off so if thats true and not an assumption by that person then I'm not sure what was going on unless she didnt contact them or if she was on the outs with them atm.

[Uncle Joe]

97. I know she suffered from epilepsy and was taking the drug Keppra

on top of that or perhaps because of it they said she suffered from depression, that being the case, she may have been too embarrassed, ashamed or apathetic to call her parents?

http://www.drugs.com/keppra.html

You may have thoughts about suicide while taking Keppra. Your doctor will need to check you at regular visits. Do not miss any scheduled appointments.

Report any new or worsening symptoms to your doctor, such as: mood or behavior changes, depression, anxiety, or if you feel agitated, hostile, irritable, hyperactive (mentally or physically), or have thoughts about suicide or hurting yourself.

Bland stated that she felt irritable to the officer and that's one of the side effects of that drug.

The whole damn thing was a travesty, she should never have been arrested in the first place, and on top of that, the jail personnel dropped the ball in a major way, the woman needed help.

[cstanleytech]

98. Oh I agree its a travesty, hopefully the cop wont be a cop after this though.

As for jail personal, if they didnt provide her meds to her ya they dropped the ball and she wouldnt be the first person in jail who died because they were not provided their medication.

[Uncle Joe]

99. On top of that, they didn't monitor her as often as they were supposed to

whenever an inmate tells them that they suffer from depression or have previously tried to commit suicide especially combined with the knowledge that she had been taking Keppra.

[cstanleytech]

101. I know, either way they are guilty of negligence imo.

[JDPriestly]

67. As I understand it, she was prone to depression and then left alone in a cell for

periods of time.

We'd call it murder if a kidnapping victim died of fright during the job. Of course it's not legally the same thing, but a woman dying of depression during an illegal detention should be the same kind of crime. It's especially true given our long and sordid history of overpolicing misdemeanors.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/sandra-bland-was-murdered-20150724?page=3

Her solitary situation and difficulty raising her bail may have triggered her depression.

It may be that legally the town is free from much liability, but morally, this was a terrible wrong.

If you got to see the video, the officer became angry at her over nothing, nothing at all other than she was upset at being stopped. He dragged her out of the car, she walked upright facing the camera, and then he shoved her to the side out of the range of the camera. I think a jury might decide that he shove her tot he side in order to cause her pain in some way. When out of the view of the camera, Sandra Bland described what was being done to her in clear and compelling language. The officer hurt her wrists. He threw her down. And why was all this done out of the view of the camera when there was room on the street? Because, the officer explained, he wanted to get her so she would be on the grass. I may remember it incorrectly, but I think he said so that her head would be on the grass. That may be incorrect, but from his description of his thinking prior to forcing Sandra out of the sight of the camera, it is clear he planned to abuse her in some way.

Excessive force and an unwarranted arrest. That's my opinion.

Plust her death even if by suicide may have been due to her isolation and her feeling of hopelessness in that jail cell. And for a lane change?????

On that road with next to no traffic?

That's harassment by a law enforcement officer. I hope that other officers note that the little pleasure you get from pushing someone around might come back on you. He should, at the very least, lose his job and be barred from law enforcement for the rest of his life. He was mean. Not fit to be a cop.

[cstanleytech]

74. "Excessive force and an unwarranted arrest. That's my opinion." I agree there.

On the other hand its more complicated than just a lane change, she resisted complying with officer (yes he was an asshole about it but still its resisting nonetheless) and also began ranting and insulting him which was a huge mistake as there is a time and a place to argue about the actions of a police officer such as in court but not when they have you pulled over.

[JDPriestly]

85. On a practical level, you are right, but actually, she did not resist a lawful arrest.

The arrest seemed to be for failure to signal a lane change, continuing to smoke after being ordered to stop by the officer and then refusing to get out of the car when the officer ordered her to get out.

This last bit is questionable because he was so riled up that he gave her no time to get out on her volition.

Refusing to put out a cigarette. Since when is that not complying with a lawful order.

Since when does an officer have the authority to order someone who is being ticketed for a traffic infraction to stop smoking.

And refusing to get out of the car?

This always goes back to the fact that the officer barely had any reason to stop her at all. She was willing to take the ticket. She showed her ID.

The officer was exceeding his authority in this case in my humble opinion.

Since when does just putting a badge and a uniform on give you such imperial rights as that officer claimed? I don't think we are living in a dictatorship to that extent yet.

[cstanleytech]

88. Not disagreeing you with but the proper place to argue about isnt when the cop has you pulled over

rather its in court after you get an attorney to defend you and then you sue the ass off the police.

[JDPriestly]

92. I watched the video. She didn't argue with him until he really got nasty.

She let him know that she did not like being stopped and was angry about that, but she did not deny that she had failed to signal and did not resist arrest. He had no business arresting her like that. And that is the whole story.

If you have a job in which you work with the public, you have to control your temper and not take nasty comments or people who are angry personally. The officer took everything very seriously and very personally. He is not suited to the work of a police officer.

[cstanleytech]

95. Yes I know I saw the video as well but it doesnt matter

you dont argue with them then or so thats what I was taught if pulled over rather you wait till afterwards and then use the proper channels at your disposal which for her would have been an attorney to sue the cop and the department.

[rhett o rick]

86. I really hate to think of whatever your point is here. Dare you explain it? nm

[cstanleytech]

87. Was responding to part where sun posted

"something roughly 100 percent of American drivers do on a regular basis."
Granted alot of idiots around here dont use their turn signals when changing lanes but some of us do and I am one of the ones that do.

[Faryn Balyncd]

5. "We'd call it murder if a kidnapping victim died of fright during the job...

"We'd call it murder if a kidnapping victim died of fright during the job. Of course it's not legally the same thing, but a woman dying of depression during an illegal detention should be the same kind of crime. It's especially true given our long and sordid history of overpolicing misdemeanors."


K&R

[marble falls]

11. My thoughts exactly.

[Ilsa]

6. I wonder if she was raped in jail.

It happens in Texas jails, and that could have been the straw that broke her emotionally.

http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3459920

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2012/apr/15/state-by-state-prisoner-rape-and-sexual-abuse-round-up/

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/18058-state-sanctioned-rape-in-texas-business-as-usual

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.cbsnews.com/news/texas-wont-comply-with-federal-prison-rape-law-governor-says/&ved=0CCUQFjACahUKEwjJt5Sgs_bGAhUMzYAKHTjgCeU&usg=AFQjCNHBDeXE-gb83cY67OIA1HLHX9C8Ng

[alcina]

7. I've been wondering that as well. /nt

[cstanleytech]

17. You would think that the medical examiner would have checked for that.

If they didn't the examiner hired by the family hopefully will and if they discover that she was raped the police are going to have a lot of explaining to do especially because wasn't she supposedly alone in the cell?

[Ilsa]

46. Maybe it had been several days and there wasn't

Enough evidence remaining to conclude she'd had a sexual encounter or rape. A couple of events during the 28 day cycle come to mind: menses and ovulation.

I don't remember how long they said she was there before her death.

[cstanleytech]

49. She was in jail for 3 days I think.

Any decent medical examiner should be able to determine if she was raped after that you would think she would not have enough time to heal.

[Ilsa]

64. A rape doesn't necessarily mean there is torn tissue.

There may not be anything to "heal", just evidence to wash or drain away. I didn't have obvious damage after I was raped. The rape could have been of a nature "don't struggle if you want to live." No fighting, no bruising. It's still rape.

Some jails offer a store, of sorts, where clean underwear and hygiene products can be purchased. She may not have had any physical evidence on her for an ME to find.

[rainy]

61. Was there another examination?

She was buried today.

[cstanleytech]

72. The family got someone else to do an examination I read, who

knows long it will take for the results to be released.

[vaberella]

60. This is the discussion. Apparently you see a rape kit when they go to pick up the body.

I just wonder if that's just normal procedure.

[WillowTree]

90. One would have thought that one of the women in nearby cells would have heard that.

I got the feeling from what they said that they couldn't really see into her cell, but they were able to talk with her. So unless she was raped and there were no sounds made, which would seen highly unlikely, rape itself seems pretty unlikely.

[TheKentuckian]

10. I strongly suspect a jail cell execution for being uppity and as such less trouble dead than alive.

How does one even end up in jail over failure to signal anyway?

Straight bullshit.

[Sunlei]

15. anyone know if that particular jail has the rule, no laying on the bed during day hours?

and just why did the police evidence photo of 'untouched cell' have the trash bag still neatly in the can?

and why did the autopsy report "a leaf embedded in a cut on her back" when her maxi dress clearly covered her entire back? The police had her face down, on the ground, with weight & knee on her back, about where the dress zipper is.

so many questions.

[cstanleytech]

23. Recipe as follows

Take 1 asshole and put a badge on him
Take 1 motorist who fails to turn on their turn signal
Have the asshole on level 1 asshole setting and mix with the motorist by raising the asshole level of the cop to level 2 over cigarette smoke from the motorist.
Leave the asshole set on number 2 and raise the motorists blood pressure gently to level 1 over the tone from the asshole cop.
Have the asshole cop then order the motorist to put out their cigarette raising the motorists blood pressure and add a dash of rebellion by having them refuse to comply with the order.
Next raise the assholeness up to level 3 and order the motorists out of the car and raise the rebellion of the motorist to level 2 with a teaspoon of smart mouth.
Now this is the crucial part, raise the cops assholeness to the max level and have him arrest the motorist who you now set to high on rebellion.
Bake one hour until done.

[TheKentuckian]

36. Failure to use a turn signal? Smoking whilst in your vehicle? "Smart mouth"?

None of that is incarceration worthy and only one is just barely citation worthy, particularly when from years of observation and all over this country as infuriating as it is personally for me only a modest minority use signals at all. The entire national police forces could work all day everyday on busting people for that and not even touch on a handful of offenders.

In any event, infinite bullshit on "she somehow got too much of the devil's weed and killed herself" until definitively proved beyond a shadow of a doubt.

[cstanleytech]

43. I agree, it should have ended at most with a citation. nt

[noiretextatique]

109. they are even claiming she might have smoked weed...IN JAIL!!!!

how utterly absurd is THAT?! all of this is a familiar of blaming the victim. and in the case, blaming a black victim who should never have never been arrested in the first place. if a more reasonable officer had stopped her, she would probably still be alive.

[marble falls]

12. "no one is innocent"......

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2013/06/no-one-is-innocent.html


No One is Innocent

by Alex Tabarrok on June 21, 2013 at 7:22 am in History, Law, Political Science | Permalink

I broke the law yesterday and again today and I will probably break the law tomorrow. Don’t mistake me, I have done nothing wrong. I don’t even know what laws I have broken. Nevertheless, I am reasonably confident that I have broken some laws, rules, or regulations recently because its hard for anyone to live today without breaking the law. Doubt me? Have you ever thrown out some junk mail that came to your house but was addressed to someone else? That’s a violation of federal law punishable by up to 5 years in prison.

Harvey Silverglate argues that a typical American commits three felonies a day. I think that number is too high but it is easy to violate the law without intent or knowledge. Most crimes used to be based on the common law and ancient understandings of wrong (murder, assault, theft and so on) but today there are thousands of federal criminal laws that bear no relation to common law or common understanding. The WSJ illustrates:

Last September (2011), retired race-car champion Bobby Unser told a congressional hearing about his 1996 misdemeanor conviction for accidentally driving a snowmobile onto protected federal land, violating the Wilderness Act, while lost in a snowstorm. Though the judge gave him only a $75 fine, the 77-year-old racing legend got a criminal record.

Mr. Unser says he was charged after he went to authorities for help finding his abandoned snowmobile. “The criminal doesn’t usually call the police for help,” he says.


70% of all drug arrests are generated from traffic stops. There's something terribly wrong with our concepts of law and order. A more NBAish standard is needed: No harm, no foul.

[Ilsa]

47. Interesting and informative post. Thanks! nt

[BumRushDaShow]

13. "...using the word "sir" as a strategy to avoid beatings and killings. "

Yes sir.

Yessuh, Yessuh massa. Yessuh massa suh, Yessuh missus, Yessuh missy.

For centuries. Hasn't stopped either, and unfortunately makes no difference when it comes to white thugs with a badge.

[BillZBubb]

19. True.

[curious_citizen]

21. SO accurate and true

THat is the clearest assesment of the compliance is all that matters crowd.

[ctsnowman]

18. K & R

[randome]

20. I don't think it can be called murder unless more evidence supports it.

But the arresting officer caused her death. I have no problem seeing something that obvious.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]A 90% chance of rain means the same as a 10% chance:
It might rain and it might not.[/center][/font][hr]

[TBF]

22. Excellent OPed in the NYTImes this morning

about the issue of "driving while black". Very powerful.

I AM tired of writing about slain black people, particularly when those responsible are police officers, the very people obligated to serve and protect them. I am exhausted. I experience this specific exhaustion with alarming frequency. I am all too aware that I have the luxury of such exhaustion.

One of the greatest lies perpetrated on our culture today is the notion that dash cameras on police cruisers and body cameras on police officers are tools of justice. Video evidence, no matter the source, can document injustice, but rarely does this incontrovertible evidence keep black people safe or prevent future injustices.

Sandra Bland, 28 years old, was pulled over earlier this month in Waller County, Tex., by a state trooper, Brian T. Encinia. She was pulled over for a routine traffic stop. She shouldn’t have been pulled over but she was driving while black, and the reality is that black women and men are pulled over every day for this infraction brought about by the color of their skin ...

Here: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/25/opinion/on-the-death-of-sandra-bland-and-our-vulnerable-bodies.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region

[passiveporcupine]

31. I don't quite agree with this

Sandra Bland, 28 years old, was pulled over earlier this month in Waller County, Tex., by a state trooper, Brian T. Encinia. She was pulled over for a routine traffic stop. She shouldn’t have been pulled over but she was driving while black, and the reality is that black women and men are pulled over every day for this infraction brought about by the color of their skin ...

The "she shouldn't have been pulled over" is wrong. She did not signal and that is a traffic violation...whether 1000 people do it in that town daily or not.

The "driving while black" may also not have been an issue, as he was pulling people over for minor infractions and just giving them warnings instead of tickets. If he was deliberately trying to hassle blacks, he probably would be issuing tickets instead.

However...the part I have trouble with is his escalation of the issue because of her attitude. Would he have responded the same way to a white woman who had "attitude"?

I seriously doubt it.

Another thing I keep hearing wrong is that he did not arrest her for a minor traffic violation. He arrested her for not following his orders, first of putting out her cigarette, and then getting out of the car.

But it never should have ended up like that, and I suspect, as I said, it was because of her skin color.

[Ilsa]

48. She quickly changed lanes to get out of his way.

He raced up behind her and she thought he was on his way to another call. She changed lanes without signalling to get out of his way. It didn't cause an accident. I see this all the time. It was a bullshit ticket and harassment.

[passiveporcupine]

53. It doesn't matter

He did not have his lights on, so she should not have panicked to the point that she had to change lanes so fast that she forgot to signal. She admitted she didn't think she deserved being pulled over for it, as if she didn't know it was a requirement. I know a lot of people are saying a ticket or warning for not signalling a lane change is a bullshit harassment maneuver, but I disagree. It is a requirement by law that you signal a lane change'; and it is especially needed for safety, if other cars are present. If you were alone on the road, I doubt you'd get pulled over for it, even by a hidden cop. We don't get to decide it's OK to break a law "because".

Also, in response to some who are concerned about why he asked her if she was OK. If you watch the full video on youtube, the first car he was dealing with when it started, before he stopped Sandra, he asked her "Are you OK?" He had pulled her over for speeding and still just gave her a warning.

I don't think he asked that of Sandra to provoke her. It was just his style to show concern for the person who is upset for being pulled over.

I actually thought he was pretty decent to her, up until the moment he over-reacted to her questioning why she had to put out her cigarette. Then he lost it. I don't know why he lost it and can only assume it was because she was black and resisting him ...or he too was having a bad day. We may never know. He did ask her in the very beginning..."YOU OK?" when he was still on the sidewalk talking to her through the passenger window...before he went back to his car to report in. So she was obviously visibly upset when he first talked to her, and I wonder if maybe she was upset before he even pulled her over. Maybe she was upset about having to leave Chicago? Who knows what was going on in her life at that time?

[Fred Sanders]

54. How was Sandra Bland "resisting him"? Your whole logic train falls off the rails right at that spot.

"I don't know why he lost it and can only assume it was because she was black and resisting him ...or he too was having a bad day. We may never know."

[passiveporcupine]

56. I was trying to come up with a better word, and that was a poor choice

She was resisting his request...arguing with him about why she had to put out her cigarette. Again, I suspect she did not know he had a legal right to ask her, or order her to put it out. I think at that point he just lost it, because she had been so negative to him from the very beginning that he was fed up, and being a black woman probably did have a lot to do with his reactions (my assumption). I'm not saying he was in the right. Legally, he was, but not humanely, and apparently not according to how he was trained to handle it. As a cop he needs to know how to handle difficult people without escalating everything into an arrest or fight. He needs to know how to handle upset people. He has to know that people are always upset when pulled over, and if they were already upset about something else, it will just amplify it. And he needs to not change his actions depending on the color of who he pulled over. We can't know for sure that he did, but statistically, it is looking that way.

[Fred Sanders]

58. Same spot, same train wreck a second time. The cop had no "legal right" to "ask" Bland to put out a smoke.

[Indydem]

77. During a traffic stop

An officer can give you a lawful order to do damn near anything.

The idea that it isn't a lawful order has absolutely no legal factual basis - just your belief that the officer should have just let her alone.

Once you are pulled over for a legitimate traffic offense, the only thing that would fail to qualify as a lawful order would be something that crosses a very clear line.

Asking a person who is already being uncooperative to put out a cigarette does not cross that line.

After failing to comply, asking her to step out of the car is also a lawful request.

All of this boils down to one thing: Sandra Bland didn't want to play ball with the cop, and she refused to be polite, follow lawful commands, or attempt to diffuse the situation.

The cops an asshole, no doubt about it. Being an asshole is not against the law.

[Fred Sanders]

83. Please allow me to explain a third time:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027001748

[840high]

68. Were you there?

[MinM]

70. Completely agree...

That's the first thing I thought of when I saw the video .. in fact I've done it myself a handful of times.

[Travis_0004]

80. That was the second time she didn't signal

The first time was when she rolled the stop sign which is probably why the cop did a uturn

[Fred Sanders]

84. Nonsense. Deflective. The cop was loaded for bear, loaded for teaching an uppity black woman how

Dixie land cops handle an uppity Chicago black woman who clearly knows her civil rights, that is the truth, no getting around it this time.

[Fred Sanders]

51. Totally agree with every word and paragraph of Roxane Gay's blog post at NYT, from the experience of a black person.

"As a larger, very tall woman, I am sometimes mistaken for a man. I don’t want to be “accidentally” killed for being a black man. I hate that such a thought even crosses my mind. This is the reality of living in this black body. This is my reality of black womanhood, living in a world where I am stripped of my femininity and humanity because of my unruly black body."

The Op-Ed is not an admonishment to white folk, it is a perspective white folk do not experience - and neither should black folk.

[TBF]

55. I don't know how people cannot understand this -

unless you have never been pulled over by a cop. I am in a newer neighborhood where they give a lot of warnings because they keep lowering speed limits as the community grows (more families, more cars). They usually ask "do you know why I pulled you over"? I'll just say "no sir" or "no ma'am" instead of trying to guess (because that is how you address anyone in Texas). After that they politely write you a warning or ticket. As an older white woman I don't have to worry if I was pulled over for harassment - but after the events of the last few years I understand that an AA person would worry about that every single time. It's ridiculous and needs to stop.

[Fred Sanders]

57. What is an AA person, and, no offence, please stop using the shortcut.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

59. AA=African American. n/t

[zentrum]

24. The traffic stop is ...

…where the "Murder by System" began, but I think it was completed by the arrest itself. She was starting a new job in a few days.

This arrest may have ruined that new hope forever. Could she raise the bail in time? Could she be at the new job on the appointed day? Was she now going to live forever under the fear that her new employers would find out about the arrest on her record? Did the hideous arresting policeman say things to her that we'll never know, threatening to tie her up in charges for weeks?

Did she foresee that she was going to be charged with "resisting arrest"? Even if she could beat that it would take weeks, months. The new job would slip away.

We have to talk about the second part—the bail system and what it does to people.

These traffic stops, even if they don't shoot you—can be life or death matters.

[passiveporcupine]

34. I agree, not to mention

the frustration and depression that can follow getting a ticket that you don't think you deserved. Which in her case, I think she thought he was ticketing her, not giving her a warning, and she did not believe she was doing anything wrong from start to finish. That is very hard to accept and stop being upset about.

[Fred Sanders]

25. Sandra Bland was illegally detained and held captive. She died in captivity. It is murder and it is

aggravated murder by kidnapping and in Texas that is the death penalty.

Could it be that the cops in this Dixiland county uses an illegal detention and subsequent arrest as an excuse to kidnap an active black activist, with all those revolutionary videos on YouTube - a prolific and floridly active member of #BlackLivesMatter - was to kidnap her on her way to a job interview - driving from Chicago - was to kidnap her and kill her.....but who I am to speculate?

The kidnapping came after the detention when the good old boys of God's County Googled "Sandra Bland" and....watched her videos, and then the rest of the story is yet to be written......not sure how that fits into the legal definitions...this is a new one.


Suicide or not, the kidnappers are legally and morally blameworthy to a similar extant...only question is the effect on sentencing.

[elehhhhna]

33. they will not be charged. but the settlement will cost the county taxpayers

A lot of money.

They'll be fired and won't be hired down here again.

[Fred Sanders]

37. Civil consequence are not enough, because black lives matter, because it will be white lives next.

[elehhhhna]

45. it's already white lives too.

I do not think cops can be prosecuted for criminal negligence very successfully. Hope I'm wrong.

[gollygee]

40. Suicide or not

somebody put that trash bag in her cell, and there's no way that's standard. Make her feel like her life isn't worth living, and then put the means to kill herself in her cell? Someone has to be made accountable regardless of whether she killed herself.

She should never have been put in a cell in the first place. She should never have been arrested in the first place. The long and short of it is that if nothing wrong had happend, she would be alive right now.

[Fred Sanders]

41. No need to particularize the issue so finely, because kidnappers are legally 100% liable for any harm.

But the evidence building contrary to and inconsistent with suicide is mounting daily while the kidnappers' version because increasingly implausible, and the burden of proof is on them, because in what BizarroWorld can it be on a dead person held in captivity?

[Travis_0004]

81. I've been in prisons with trash bags

I've seen prisoners fill them with water and use them as weights. If it rips the guards will hastle them a bit, and sometimes even get them a new bag.

Most minimum security holding cells are not restricted like you might expect.

[Tumbulu]

89. Yes, that is exactly what happened

I think at least. I want to see them prosecuted for that.

[karynnj]

26. Great article

In some ways, because so much of the lead up to her arrest is on video, it really is another eye opening view of how different it is being black vs being white.

Everyone makes at least occasional minor errors in driving. Here, she should have signalled she was pulling over. It really is something that drivers do almost without thought - and the reason to do it is obvious. However, I think all of us - over the course of a lifetime of driving - have made far greater, more consequential mistakes.

I understood, maybe for the first time, what community policing means. My husband and I have been stopped by police, including once for driving far too slowly in a rural area of VT late at night. We were not familiar with the road and it was extremely dark. For miles, many cars passed us. The tone from the police that Bland faced from the first second was one of hostility and suspicion that seemed to come out of nothing she had done to that point. In contrast, where the police in our case had far more reason to pull us over, it was clear from the first second that their concern was the safety of the community, including us. (They then has us follow them for most of the remaining distance until we got to a more populated, better lit area. Both to light the way and I assume to assess whether we could competently continue.)

Watching the video, we saw the hostility of the policeman, returned by obvious antagonism from Bland that would never have been my response to the police. No, this is NOT to say that her response was out of line. I do not have the same history that she has of being treated with suspicion by the police. To me, this highlighted the different paths that she and we had traveled until that point. The 60s aside, for all of our lives, the police were, not just authority figures who you treated with respect, but were there to help. Not to mention, we had met some police non professionally.

While it is likely that the policeman who stopped her was worse than average, the difference in just that first minute really demonstrates white privilege. That confrontation really must have had its true beginning years before the traffic stop - setting up the instant, almost inexplicable hostility. Both were responding not just to what was happening, but to the emotional baggage both brought to the moment. It is entirely likely that Bland been white, there would have been no police stop at all or if there was one, the policeman would have given her a verbal warning that she should always signal -- as it keeps her safer.

It is absolutely inexplicable that this woman died because she happened to be on that street at that moment and was stopped by a policeman for a minor infraction that would have at most led to a minor traffic ticket. Knowing this story, it is much easier to understand that the baggage she brought to that moment not only explained her hostility, but her reaction (though not helpful) was absolutely understandable.

[madville]

30. Both sides did things wrong

and they fed off of each other as they both kept escalating the situation in response to the other. The cop could have ignored the cigarette, gave her the warning, and said "have a nice day ma'am". She could have just put out her cigarette and signed the warning.

I think both sides were looking for a fight at that moment and got one. His anger was in response to his perception that he was being disobeyed and disrespected and as a professional he is supposed to ignore that and deescalate the situation. Her anger was in response to the general treatment of black people by the police and she decided to challenge his authority at that moment which is rarely a good idea.

[karynnj]

35. Absolutely true

Given all the other police/POC interactions that went bad, this in some ways, was clearer in showing the reason this will not be easily fixed by legislation alone.

On the police side, it may be easier to fix by training and attempting to filter cops like him from neighborhood policing. However, it would seem that to change the fear and hostility that developed over years because of police mistreatment of POC would not happen quickly even if someone found and implemented a set of changes that fixed the problem from the policing side.

[Fred Sanders]

38. Nonsense, that is a distortion of the plain reality of the video evidence - one too many Uppitys.

[noiretextatique]

110. the salient fact is this: the only illegal thing she did

was failure to signal when changing lanes. and HE is the public servant...with a a gun. he should be held to higher standard. his behavior escalated the situation needlessly, and she did nothing that is not protected by law. HE acted illegally.

[bucolic_frolic]

27. She may have had issues

that resulted in detention and confinement unleashing an unknown case of claustrophobia

Phobias absolutely terrifying to those afflicted

Fear of heights, snakes, etc.

Religious beliefs seem to be fair basis for Supreme Court rulings today,
pandering to minorities, why not phobias?

[Fred Sanders]

39. Nonsense, that is a deflection from the stark video reality of a cop loaded for bear on a uppity

Last edited Sat Jul 25, 2015, 01:43 PM - Edit history (1)

black woman in a fine car from Chicago.

So now, as seen by the racist white cop, you are on patrol in your little Dixie slice of Racist Whiteland heaven and you see a late model car breeze by you driving just as fine and carefree as any uppity black woman with Illinois plates on her late model car can be.

This racist white cop does not know it yet but he is about to be uppitied 3 times in about 30 minutes!

This person is getting uppity by driving this fine car from Illinois in Texas while black, then when he pursued her like a demon cop out of hell, this already once uppity black woman changes lanes to the right as the cop rushes up behind her, as she should, but every so uppity without a turn signal.... - second uppity, no signal light - the third uppity is the refusal to put out a cigarette even though the law enforcement officer had concluded his business of a warning - he had asked ever so politely and kindly and ever so gratuitously.

For no legal reason mind you, or for officer safety from second hand smoke, just a polite and kind gratuitous request from an upstanding white cop man with a "heritage" of Southern hospitality and pride.

What did the cop, thinks the cop, did I do to get such uppity disrespect for a third time??

"Get out of the car". "I am going to light you up!"

"Uppity girl...get out or I will haul you out"!

Yeah, sure, deceased Sandra Bland should share some blame.....perhaps in some Bizzaro-world media fantasy land of twisted logic, fact and science denial and even criminal evidentiary burden, but I see none of that around.

[bucolic_frolic]

50. Depends on how one views it

I did not assign fault as you suggest. I was merely suggesting how
being put in that situation could contribute to the outcome that the
autopsy results claim. Agreed she should never have been put in that
situation in a jail cell.

[livingonearth]

82. This guy didn't have to get out of his car or get lit up.

I'm pretty sure he didn't end up dead in a cell either.

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" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Geronimoe]

28. She was justifiably feisty

I wonder is she was given sedative that might have caused severe depression. One hears of people who are on sedatives and for no reason jump from buildings or bridges.

She seemed intelligent, more than willing to defend herself and put up a fight for her rights. This does not seem to jibe with the idea that she was suicidal, at all.

[sorefeet]

29. This is a form of indoctrination

a few more generations of this and the people will be trained and much more easy to control once they understand the repercussions of not being totally submissive. Kind of like what Kim Jon Un has goin on.

[Fred Sanders]

42. A few more generations can worry about it then, but the worry is now. The solution is better law.

[udbcrzy2]

32. VIDEO: Raw interview with Sandra Bland's co-inmate

We're hearing about Sandra Bland's final moments from inside the jail directly from a woman who was in a cell right next to her

http://abc7chicago.com/news/video-raw-interview-with-sandra-blands-co-inmate/876221/

[MinM]

65. Adrienne Shelly

I agree with the notion that the very fact that Sandra Bland was ever stopped and then jailed is the real issue here...

But, as I mentioned in this other thread, the case reminds me of how Adrienne Shelly was murdered. It was staged to look like a hanging/suicide. If not for her husband/blogger Andy Ostroy raising doubts about the suicide angle the police would have never investigated further...

[noiretextatique]

69. another tragedy

police have used this hanging by suicide tragedy before, but the case you cite is totally different. she did not die in custody.

[cstanleytech]

76. I am agreeing with you, could this be one of the signs of the apocalypse? nt

[noiretextatique]

113. LOL

maybe you are getting smarter

[cstanleytech]

114. Thats possible

or you are

[noiretextatique]

115. every day...hopefully eom

[Not a Fan]

66. Sandra Bland

She was Lynched.

[Elmer S. E. Dump]

71. I agree unequivocally!

[BeanMusical]

75. That's so horrible.

[saidsimplesimon]

78. Sandra Bland and family, this was an injustice.

Every day I meditate on positive plans to move forward. The media cycle allows little time for intelligent conversation on complex issues. Simple, "black lives matter", I hear you. Please, do not forget that the homeless, regardless or color, are treated like trash.

[DallasNE]

91. The Video I Saw Showed A Lightly Traveled Street

With the police officer overtaking Bland. When the police officer did not change lanes to pass, Bland pulled over to allow him to pass. Instead he pulled in behind her and turned on his lights to pull her over and she promptly stopped.

One question is why didn't the cop switch lanes to pass Bland? There was only light traffic. It was totally obvious that the only reason she switched lanes was to allow the faster moving police car to pass. She was practicing defensive driving by getting out of the way. There was no reason whatsoever for that cop to pull her over, given the circumstances. And why did he escalate a lane change issue into pulling his Taser on her then throwing her in jail for days so she would lose her new job. Obviously the Constitutional prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment no longer applies. If locking someone up for days on end for not using their signal for a lane change, even though she was intimidated into making the lane change, surely should qualify as cruel and unusual punishment. Otherwise that part of the Constitution is dead. I mean, here a lane change violation gets a far stiffer sentence than the Wall Street bankers that conspired to create the worst recession since the Great Depression as they walked off scot-free. Something is terribly out of kilter.

[cstanleytech]

100. "There was no reason whatsoever for that cop to pull her over" Its more accurate to say that

he didnt "have" to pull her over, he did however have a legal right to pull her over if she didnt turn on her turn signal when changing lanes assuming texas has the same basic traffic laws as the rest of the states I haved lived in over the years failure to signal a lane change can get you a ticket especially if your dealing with an asshole for a cop.

[Fred Sanders]

103. Please inform yourself of the detailed FACTS of the arrest, they are important to comprehension.

Pass it on. Facts matter as much as black lives do.

[cstanleytech]

104. Ok Fred lets keep it simple, did she signal to change lanes? Yes or no?

[Fred Sanders]

105. Inform YOURSELF of the facts. I just said that. Why do I have to keep repeating myself around here?

Maybe not wanting to know detailed facts before drawing final conclusions is a sign of the apocolypse?

[cstanleytech]

106. If you mean watch video I did, it didnt look she turned on signal to me then again I am on

a shitty old laptop literally being held together with an entire roll of duct tape with some dead pixels so maybe I missed it, did she turn it on or not?

[Fred Sanders]

107. You are getting warmer....

[cstanleytech]

108. Thats not answer fred.

[raouldukelives]

94. K&R It is insanity and it must be stopped.

Every ignored killing is a recruitment call, a signal, across the nation to closet racists that the waters fine. We must elect a President, for once, who takes these issues seriously.