Want to Insult a Powerful Woman? Call Her a whore

[wyldwolf]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by Omaha Steve (a host of the General Discussion forum).

So what’s wrong with equating politicians with prostitutes? After all, it’s a quick and vivid way of accusing legislators of selling their votes (and presumably their principles) for money... Since when did this amusing metaphor hurt anyone?

The problem is, the accusation conjures up an image almost exclusively of women — typically streetwalkers, but sometimes high-class escorts like Beck describes. Also, the term seems to flow so easily off the tongues of men seeking to degrade successful, powerful (perhaps “uppity”?) women. Not long ago Rep. Alan Grayson (D-Fl.) called Linda Robertson, an adviser to Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke, a “K Street whore,” and he was rightly criticized for doing so. Whore, prostitute, hooker — it’s time to retire these sexist terms that only encourage our society to see women as commodities to be bought and sold.

http://now.org/blog/want-to-insult-a-powerful-woman-call-her-a-prostitute/

When Alan Grayson called a female corporate lobbyist a "K-Street whore"—and was attacked as crude and sexist at the same time that he was lauded as gutsy and honest—he played a role in a familiar script: hero of the left (MSNBC's Keith Olbermann, Bill Maher) attacks female villain (Hillary Rodham Clinton, Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin) using sexist language. Progressive feminists soul-search about liberal misogyny. Mainstream media talk about sexism for 5 seconds. Then the media move on, and no one learns a thing. Repeat.

As (is) often pointed out during the primaries, when Clinton garner(s) some horrifyingly sexist coverage... progressives who should know better resort to misogynist language because it's still OK to be sexist.

That's partly because gendered language is so deeply ingrained in our discourse that its impact is complex and difficult to parse out. If you spend a lot of time reading feminist blogs or sitting in gender-theory classes or generally thinking about this stuff, it's obvious why a public official calling a woman a whore is out of line, even if it's meant figuratively. As Adele Stan pointed out in a great blog post, "the sting of the word 'whore,' even when applied to me, is in the word's inherent sexism."

http://www.motherjones.com/media/2009/11/why-its-not-smart-call-women-conservatives-whores

[Warpy]

1. It's also colloquial English for someone who has sold

his ethics, his morals, his integrity, and yes, his soul to the highest bidder for the largest amount of money.

While I myself would be more likely to call women like Roberston total sellouts and sociopaths, I fully understand Grayson's colloquial use of the word.

It might be a generational thing. People under 35 seem to want to pussyfoot around a lot of highly descriptive if rude words. Older people use them as colloquial English, knowing such words carry a lot of descriptive punch.

Unless you want to Bowdlerize the world, my best advice to you is to wince and move on. The world is going to fight back.

Remember, colloquial English has words that go far beyond the first definition you'll find in the dictionary. We are far richer because of them. A sterilized Newspeak would render us far poorer.

Besides, I hate bullying and attempts at censorship just on general principles.

[Cleita]

2. +1000

[wyldwolf]

3. so is the 'c' word.

dictionary.com: a term used to refer to a contemptible person.

you ok with that word?

[Warpy]

5. I hang out with foul mouthed knitters, many from the UK

so yes, I'm OK with that word, at least from other women. Why do you ask?

[wyldwolf]

7. A longtime DUer was banned for using it. Just curious if you thought it was offensive to women.

You know, one of those live votes to get you on the record.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Avoid the UK, or for that matter Autralia

or you will be eternally offended. Also avoid movies made there, or comedy.

And because of the people who want to walk around language, there are times I wonder about this place.Oh and many younger folks, who are women, and actual activists, use those words regularly as well.

[wyldwolf]

22. I don't give a rat's ass about the UK or Australia.

DU isn't about about the Democrats in the US.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. And you missed what I said about actual activists

good going.

Not that it surprises me one bit.

By the way those activists are in the United States. And they care about things like hours at work, not a pissing contest over words. They care over things like equal pay, not a pissing contest over words.


Lets just say I have a lot of respects for them. And there is one movie right now in theaters made in the US you should definitely avoid. I will avoid the name, last time got a post hidden... the mere mention...

[wyldwolf]

27. no I didn't. I just didn't find it comment-worthy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. I know, ignoring actual activists

is the way to go.

Have an excellent day. Anyhoo, me on scanner, we have a small storm, not that it matters to the rest of you.

[wyldwolf]

32. If an activist uses sexist language, they deserve to be ignored.

[Warpy]

35. Yes, it's so much easier to whine about words you don't like

than to get down in the mud to try to work to create a fairer world.

Bye.

[wyldwolf]

39. correction: Sexist words I don't like ...

[treestar]

102. You create a fairer world by getting people

not to think in terms where they devalue women and use terms meant for that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. I love it when you prove my point

thanks...

[wyldwolf]

41. Oh, I just love it when you try get all vague and cute.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. I am not, you did state that if somebody uses bad words

they should be ignored. I stated that bad words, are quite common in the trenches.

Avoid them, your ears will burn.

[wyldwolf]

44. no I didn't

[nadinbrzezinski]

48. Yes, yes you did

wyldwolf (39,495 posts)
32. If an activist uses sexist language, they deserve to be ignored.

You know how many activists actually use words your tender ears do not like? In the heat of the moment at times people do swear.

Discussions among actual, gasp I know, activists do go there...

As I said, avoid the actual trenches.

[wyldwolf]

61. No, I said if an ACTIVIST does - someone who hopes to be taken seriously.

[nadinbrzezinski]

66. Well, I guess none should have ever taken

Cesar Chavez seriously... or a slew of other activists that over the course of the years have yes, gone there.



Or for that matter modern day activists who yes, go there.

As I said, stay on the web, and away from the actual trenches.

[wyldwolf]

69. if they call women whores, they should not be taken seriously

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Again, thank you for making my damn point

[wyldwolf]

71. again, you're trying to be vague and cute.

[nadinbrzezinski]

73. Nope, not one bit

I am not sure if we are speaking the same language, but at this point that would not surprise me. After all, I do spend too much time with gasp, actual activists. Stay in the safety of the web. Trust me. you need to stay away from any of that.

[wyldwolf]

75. yep, lots.

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. Yup, we even report on it

[wyldwolf]

87. you report on vagueness and cuteness? Interesting.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. Now you are getting personal

well you did that a while ago

[wyldwolf]

96. you said it, not me.

[nadinbrzezinski]

105. Nope, what i said is that activists

use really coarse language. That includes the W word.

Most REAL WORLD ACTIVISTS who deal with shit like hours, minimum wage, getting enough pay, feeding their kids, school and school supplies, and fighting structural racism, really have language as one of their least concerns.

Now you are using it trying to personally attack me. I must say, the cuteness increases by degrees.

Please

[wyldwolf]

107. yup, you said you're an activist and activists call women whores and you're defending it

[nadinbrzezinski]

117. What part of I REPORT was that hard to understand in the English language?

I guess the I REPORT was the hard part to understand.

Please proceed with the personal attacks. They are lovely, especially given how this conversation started.

[wyldwolf]

120. All I want is for you to...

[nadinbrzezinski]

122. Now this is getting silly

[wyldwolf]

125. It is. One wonders why you're defending the use of 'whore.'

[nadinbrzezinski]

129. You do have an extremely good imagination

slowly now for the people who have problems understanding American:

I am not defending the word you insist on using, which is strange, and it is quite unbecoming given that you insist the word should be buried and rejected by all, especially the lesser classes I suspect.

What I am saying is that it is used regularly by people who are actually in the trenches which I suspect you would not know if they bopped you on the side of the head, whether you like it or not. Some serious activists like Cesar Chavez for example, used it in the past. They even used the SPANISH version of the words as well. By your quite imperfect logic, all his work should be discounted because of it.

For that matter, the work of many activists over the decades who in the trenches use quite coarsened language, and so do their followers.

I am sorry you cannot understand American, so I posted this in Queens English. Now let me reach for my crumpet, I think it is tea time lass.

[wyldwolf]

130. Why are you running away from the word now?

[nadinbrzezinski]

143. Childish

have the last word Governor

[wyldwolf]

145. because you're childish? OK, I'll accept that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. Facepalm on steroids

[malokvale77]

165. I have laughed my ass off.

Thank you nadin' for being so gracious to respond so patiently to posts that imho deserved no response much less intelligent ones.

[treestar]

141. You began the personal attacks when you came into the non-discussion

you are creating. Quit playing the victim.

[treestar]

140. No proof of that whatsoever

That most activists are foul mouthed? And that's a virtue? Stop bullying.

[treestar]

137. Quit with the concept that people objecting to the word are not

tough, some "tender soul" or couldn't take it around people saying those words. You are saying we are intimidated by misogynists. We are not. We object to their behavior. That's does not mean we are not tough enough to deal with it. In fact you come close to misogyny yourself to call it a virtue of toughness that you can take hearing those terms.

[malokvale77]

159. Definite language barrier

Hah, It's the difference in activism and those worried about having their applecarts upset.

In all fairness, I have no applecart to upset. In fact, I have nothing to lose.

Way to go nadin'.

[nadinbrzezinski]

162. Yup

and also a tad of the bully...

[juxtaposed]

101. I've heard every word yelled by both men and women and I take my friends very seriously

What I've experienced with organizing and activism, the language can be brutal and rough at times. Seems the norm during planing, not so much during execution. When ppl who have worked together before and have a good history there is less restraint on what one would say. If someone new joins the group and hasn't been involved in planing actions they could be offended by some of the colorful language.

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Exactly

I have covered some events where language is used that would make people here blush. They are more or less somewhat closed events.

[Warpy]

23. No kidding, even international websites should be off limits

to those tender souls having the vapors over ordinary colloquial English.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Yup, or organizational meetings

among labor and civil rights activists. Plenty of bad words do fly

[Warpy]

31. I know, I've been there

and can top most of them.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. There is a term that comes to mind at this point

and it contains either the words "middle Class" or "First world...."

[geek tragedy]

34. Hey, if you want to beat Donald J. Trump in the

race to the bottom, go right ahead.

Why not call gay men "pansies" and black men "shiftless" or "thugs" while you're at it?

[Warpy]

40. You are the one doing that in your post

I have never done so.

It seems free speech advocates are not the ones racing to the bottom.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

68. This is always my gauge.

Would it be alright to use those slurs? Sexist words should be just as offensive as racist and homophobic language.

Am I talking about censorship? No, certainly not. I'm talking about raised consciousness, or good old courtesy, where speaking that way would be clearly--viscerally--repulsive.

[treestar]

106. You're creating a straw man

Objecting to it does not make you a weak and tender soul. It means you are trying to get people to be less sexist.

[Warpy]

114. Please don't go to international sites.

You won't like it and they'll point and laugh at your desire to make adult English bland and safe.

[treestar]

123. Are they better than me?

Because they are more sexist than we are?

I don't know to what international site you refer. Surely when it comes to the UK, it's not any respectable society. UK and Australian people know when not to use vulgar words too. You're talking about their lowlifes just like here.

And yes I could take it - I'm not a tender soul. But I could tell them we consider it sexist and misogynistic. Why wouldn't they respect that as I would respect their culture?

[treestar]

100. If they don't mean the same thing by it

it may not be offensive coming from them.

Or maybe they have a more sexist society in those countries.

[geek tragedy]

15. Ask NYC_SKP. nt

[still_one]

49. well this isn't the UK, and even in the UK, refined folks don't use that despicable word. I don't

think it is OK, to use the "n" word either no matter what you racial background is

[Warpy]

52. I'm not refined

I've had to work too damned hard.

[still_one]

72. If that is the only way you can express yourself, be my guest. Speaks volumes

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. My god, go hand out with the pinky finger crowd

who drinks tea and eats crumpets with their gloved hands.

By the way, that word has a DIFFERENT USAGE in the UK and even ahem refined people use it. Australians are even ahem worst about it. (from your POV of course), That movie I made a slight reference to, made allusions to that... in a funny piece of dialogue... but that movie should be banned I swear, or have naughty language warnings. It has a lot of naughty language.

[still_one]

74. Go for it. Use it in a job interview in the UK or Australia. Of course UK has a lot

of nice history to look up to, don't they?

If the only way you can express yourself is with vulgarity, impress away

[nadinbrzezinski]

78. Since I have not used it at all

I think you have no room to stand. But I get it. LANGUAGE CHANGES... by the way, your precious ears should avoid the UK for another reason, the word gay still has the ORIGINAL use attached.

Still, people who worry about words, and how to control language but not about things that actually change lives leave me rather unimpressed.

[still_one]

109. Your defending those that use it in a political forum to convince someone why they should not vote

for someone. Do you really think they have furthered their cause, or alienate more people?

This isn't about censorship, it is about using words that have been used to degrade women for years.

Also, I never said you did or did not use the word, only discussing your defense of those that use the word, and why, especially in the context on this forum, it is sexist and refers to a women NOT as a person, but an anatomical part.

For those who thinks it makes a point, look how the posts for those who used such descriptions do not even get to the issue they were trying to make, because it is a hot button word, and detracts from the issue

[nadinbrzezinski]

113. I am impressed since my candidate is big money

so you are not going to vote for big money? Good on you.

[still_one]

119. In all honesty I haven't decided yet who I am voting for in the primaries. The only person who I

will NOT vote for under any circumstances is Jim Webb

[nadinbrzezinski]

121. In all honestly we are not endorsing anybody

but we are covering the race on all angles. Yes that includes Republicans, Democrats and if we have a green candidate a green candidate. I generally speaking DO NOT post our coverage at a partisan site. Partisans have no clue what to do with as neutral as we can coverage.

So telling me that we are doing damage to a candidate... well I have to write my endorsement for big money, since that is the real winner here.

[still_one]

132. I was talking generically and so were you. However, this particular thread was alluding I believe

to a specific candidate, Hillary, who in another thread was referred to as a "wh____", which is where this whole word smithing distraction started.

The "we are doing damage to their candidate", is what I meant, not you personally, but someone using hot button words will detract from the point they are trying to get across with most people, and I believe it is self-defeating.

There are a lot of arguments setup on DU which detract from the point they are making in my view

Anyway, I understand your point, and do appreciate your point of view

[nadinbrzezinski]

142. I am going to go into a far more general point

there is a division with language and it's effects between those who are (I will go there) white and middle class and working class.

I have been spending way too much time with working class, and specifically activists. Not just the Black Lives Matter, but also labor, women's rights (different flavor for working class folks, the last thing they want to argue is the meaning of life of a lousy novel, but speak of diapers). language is the last thing in their minds. Really, if people hurl fighting words at each other, people get angry... but really, they are far more concerned with raising the minimum wage.

I have recordings of a few semi closed meetings we were invited to that would make people's ears curl... or at demonstrations.

This is an aspect that people at DU need to understand. I will not use the W word, or the C word, Hell, when I was growing up there was a large list of words we did not speak because we were nice ladies. Then I got into EMS.

Language is not just the word. It is also the intent behind it. I learned that as well... over the years.

And also language does evolve, and some words in the US are already changing, language changes all the time, and the last ones to find out are literally living behind literal or fictional walls. Some of the ways some of these words are starting to be used in the streets, or for that matter in scrips, tells me that some of that already started. Or rather it never stopped.

[still_one]

147. You are right, there are far more important issues to be concerned with than "fighting words".

Sure, people get angry or frustrated, and sometimes say things they wished they could have expressed differently or not. It happens.

I also think some folks do it on DU to push the limits, and create flame bait, not make a point.


We probably agree more than disagree I suspect.

[nadinbrzezinski]

149. I suspect the same

[George II]

134. IS THIS DISCUSSION ABOUT A WOMAN IN THE UK OR AUSTRALIA?????

[BooScout]

153. hate to break it to you....

...but the word is not acceptable in the UK either. Btw, watching a lot of movies doesn't qualify you as being an expert on things in the UK.

[NanceGreggs]

135. Knitters are exempt.

When you realize you've just totally fucked-up a skein of pure merino wool or a thousand yards of cashmere, you are within your rights to use whatever language you want.

[Warpy]

139. And especially when we knit lace

The foulest mouths belong to the lace knitters, I've noticed.

[NanceGreggs]

146. No argument there.

There's no fury on earth like that of the lace-knitter who realizes she left out the yarn-overs fifty-three rows back.

[Warpy]

148. Especially when she's finishing up a triangle shawl.

I can tell exactly where I went blind when I knitted a Faroese lace shawl many years back, about a third of the way down the back center panel, the easiest part of the pattern.

My language was extremely colorful when the transplant improved things so that I could see it.

[NanceGreggs]

152. I remember working on lace shawl back when my kids were little ...

My then-husband decided to take the kids to the zoo for the day.

As he explained to them at the time, "You're too young to hear certain language."

[quickesst]

127. It sounds like...

...someone is trying to make "whore" an acceptable word here. If and when it is, be ready to find it used in some context in practically every anti Hillary thread posted. The standard answer will probably be something like "I didn't use it in the misogynistic way, I used it in the Australian way.........mate!"😏

[AtheistCrusader]

163. Bullshit. One, 160 post noob used it, once, was roundly criticized and didn't get

Tombstoned despite who fucking knows how many alerts. Four no-opinion idiots on one jury with unknown motives let it stand. Get over it. It's not cool, it shouldn't have happened here of all places, but shit does indeed sometimes happen.

If anything, at long last, someone has managed to cast doubt on nyc_skp's ppr.

[quickesst]

169. Hopefully...

...it will not become an accepted term around here. I merely stated, in my own opinion, what I believe would happen if it does. Quite a few people here already brush the edge of that line. The poster you refer to just happened to paint outside the line a bit too far. Your, let's say, enthusiasm in your post tells me that I'm not the one who needs to "get over it."

[AtheistCrusader]

164. I'm not, but nobody gave a shit when an Australian comedian in the U.S. Used it as his only

Adjective for 'female' in the course of ranting about guns in America.

So I guess it depends whose ox is getting gored.

[msanthrope]

4. Grayson's use of the word was unsurprising, given the revelations regarding his relationship

with the mother of his children.

He's free to use the word. But he'll suffer the consequences in his Senate run.

[Warpy]

6. That's rather a low blow

since she's been videotaped being violent toward him.

That post is more shameful than any word you might object to.

[msanthrope]

76. Indeed....the mother of his five children, whom he now says he was never

legally married to, did push him when he managed to show up with a congressional aide taping it. And he made sure he released the tape to the press.

Rep. Grayson, rather than quietly divorcing, chose to pursue annulment, thereby making his children the product not of a marriage, but out of wedlock. While no shame attaches to children, I wonder at a parent who would do something like that to a child.....divorce affects children badly enough, I don't think adding an extra level of crazy to the mix helps.

[SunSeeker]

166. Yes, and it can't be pleasant for the kids to see their mother on food stamps.

Or having their dad call the cops on their mom for buying groceries with his credit card. http://www.politico.com/story/2015/05/alan-grayson-called-cops-on-wife-for-buying-groceries-with-his-credit-card-118112.html

How Grayson can refuse to pay her a penny in support after she stayed out of the job marketplace to raise their FIVE kids for 25 years is beyond me. And you got to love the Grayson apologists describing as "domestic violence" this tiny woman pushing Grayson after he had an aide set the whole thing up on camera.

So she failed to finalize the paperwork on her divorce. She is not a bigamist as that term is understood. There are no allegations she had any relationship with the man once she met Grayson, nor any allegations that she ever cheated on Grayson, sexually or otherwise. Even if she did, she raised his 5 kids. He owes her support, morally even if not legally. Disgusting.

I'll never understand how progressive men can call women the c-word or whore. Or how a progressive man can use such sexist terms as "gold digger" against his own wife, like Grayson did.

[msanthrope]

168. They have apparently reached a settlement where Grayson got his

annulment, and dropped the nasty bigamy and credit card charges...a sordid business all around, and one that should give any woman voter pause.

[SunSeeker]

170. But he is still not paying her support (alimony).

That was the whole point of raising the bigamy charges. If there was bigamy--as that term is defined under Florida law--then the marriage is void. If the marriage is void it can be annulled in Florida as if it never happened. Since there was "no marriage," he does not have to pay alimony (there's no "palimony" in Florida, unlike other states) and does not have to give her any share of the community property since without a marriage there is no community property. So, even though he's worth $31 million, taxpayers are feeding the mother of his 5 children.

[7962]

167. Oh, no he'll still be lauded because he's on the RIGHT side!! nt

[hifiguy]

8. Agree completely.

[LittleBlue]

13. /thread

[wyldwolf]

18. how about the term 'fag?'

It's use predates any negative connotations to gay people by centuries.

First used in the 1780s in England - an English public-school boy who acts as servant to an older schoolmate.

So if I noticed a male politician being mentored by an older politician, can I use the colloquial English cop-out and call him a fag? Would that be ok to you?

[LittleBlue]

56. In Britain, the f word is perfectly normal

It often startles me to hear Brits casually throw around the word "fag" when talking about cigarettes. That is their language and it's normal there.

Here it is a gay slur.

[wyldwolf]

60. yeah, DU and it's properties are not in Britain.

[LittleBlue]

77. Of course. Did I say they were?

[wyldwolf]

84. no, but the repeated comparison between the US and Britain as a means to justify misogyny ...

... warrants a reminder of the stated purpose and locale of DU

[LittleBlue]

93. Wasn't trying to

Just pointing out that words have different meanings depending upon where in the Anglophone world one is speaking, and possibly differing meanings depending on the context and time period.

Not trying to justify that word in the US but it is perfectly acceptable in Britain.

[wyldwolf]

98. then why even mention any other country?

[LittleBlue]

158. You asked a question

And I answered

[treestar]

126. how is it used in Britain?

Is it used to insult women? Or do women feel all warm and cozy when someone calls them that because it means such a good thing?

I have been in contact with UK and Aussies and I've never heard them using it. These people liked me fine, so why didn't they call me a cunt? Or a whore? lol

[LittleBlue]

161. C*nt is a grave insult to women in Britain

Which is why it's only socially acceptable to use against men. Context.

I have been in contact with UK and Aussies and I've never heard them using it.

Maybe they don't smoke?

[Gormy Cuss]

64. Brits also used 'faggot' to mean a disagreeable woman into the early 20th century

which is about the time it became a slur against gay men in the U.S. 'Fag' for cigarette may come from a different root than 'faggot' in British English, whereas in American slang 'fag' is a shortened version of 'faggot.'

[LittleBlue]

83. I didn't know that

Always wondered about the etymology behind that word.

[Gormy Cuss]

95. AFAIK there's no clear evidence that the American usage evolved directly from the British slang

but it certainly wouldn't be a unique transformation in terms of a slang term for a woman becoming a slang term for a gay man.

[Flatulo]

155. A faggot is a bundle of sticks used to start a fire. It's usage dates back to when

men accused of homosexuality were tied together and burned alive.

[Gormy Cuss]

157. Actually, that's considered a suspect etymology now

because the penalty for being gay was hanging and there doesn't seem to be a record of this "burning them tied together" explanation.

A faggot (or fagot) is a bundle of sticks though.

[geek tragedy]

14. Go ahead and do a google image search for "whore"

Report back to us the % of men vs women that come back in the search results.

Spoiler alert: the results are sexually degrading ones of women

It's a misogynist term, with its origin in misogyny, and whoever uses it on a woman as a means of insulting and degrading her is basically explicitly endorsing misogyny because it suits their narrow agenda.

If a person can't articulate a criticism of Clinton's militarism etc without using terms like "whore" or "cunt" then that person is a misogynist idiot.

P.S. Grayson apologized

[Gidney N Cloyd]

45. +1

[Scootaloo]

65. So is "sellout."

So why not just say "sellout" instead?

[onehandle]

82. Yes. That's what that Bernie supporter meant. You can tell by the nuance of his posts.

100% of which are a 1 word subject line followed by 1 sentence attack on Hillary.

He's one of your best. Glad to see you embracing him.

[Warpy]

91. Keep this garbage in GD-P

Trying to perpetuate a grudge from by another poster in another thread in another forum?

Not the DU I want to see.

[JTFrog]

97. Calling women the "c" word and whores?

Not the DU I want to see.

I guess something is gonna have to give eh?

Let's hope it's not a decent into discussionist level filth as some seem to be pushing for.

[geek tragedy]

103. But the DU you want to see has people calling

Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Elizabeth Warren "whores?"

Maybe Hillary supporters can break out "Shylock" references to even the score--think that would be good for DU?

[Warpy]

110. Don't try to tell me what I want

You are not good at it.

[geek tragedy]

115. Oh. You said this in defense of a man calling a woman a "whore"

Remember, colloquial English has words that go far beyond the first definition you'll find in the dictionary. We are far richer because of them. A sterilized Newspeak would render us far poorer.

Besides, I hate bullying and attempts at censorship just on general principles.

[Warpy]

128. Now that's a reach that has far outdone its grasp.

Your attempt to make a discussion of what adults should be permitted to say in their daily speech all about me has been duly noted and given all the attention it requires.

[geek tragedy]

131. So you agree that it's not acceptable for people here

to refer to those three women (and all others) as "whores?"

[treestar]

99. It is for that because of the original meaning of the word

It's using the word for prostitute to say they sold out, as a metaphor. So it's still using the concept.

[George II]

133. Nice try

[antigop]

151. urban dictionary: corporate whore

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=corporate+whore

One who has sold more than their labor to the corporation; one who has forsaken personal values and constitution for corporate $$; meaning of "whore" belittled when preceded by the word “corporate”; person who will sell their soul for $$.

[hobbit709]

9. you do know what the definition of an honest politician is?

[Walk away]

10. The problem here at DU is that many of the people supporting Bernie Sanders....

are so used to pushing the limits of civility and decency when it comes to Hillary Clinton that when one of them says something disgustingly sexist, it just gins them up and set their endorphins bouncing around. I'm starting to suspect that they have to indulge in this collective "bad behavior" in order to reach a state of complete delusion about their candidates chances of winning the Democratic Primary.

I find it even more bizarre that, although they seem to blame her for every bad thing that happened during her husband's administration, they aren't nearly as slanderous and vile towards him. They don't even seem to hate republicans as much as they hate Hillary. I have to admit that it taints Sanders for me. I wouldn't want to spend any time with his supporters so I would forgo my usual GOTV activities.

I think, even for the "Women for Bernie" there is a creepy underlying sexism and hatred of a powerful woman. I can only imagine how scary things will be here when their hero doesn't win, place or show. I don't envy the Administrators on that day!

[hobbit709]

11. Pot and kettle there.

[Walk away]

46. I have never said one negative thing about Bernie Sanders except that....

many of his supporters are completely delusional and that he doesn't have a broad range of issues to discuss. But I'm not surprised that you a comparing calling a woman a whore and me calling you candidate short on addressing issues. You are a Bernie supporter and therefore....living in the land of illusion

[Phlem]

86. doubling down.

oh my.

[hobbit709]

144. Maybe not you personally but there's been plenty of crap.

And where did I ever call her that?

don't be complaining about name calling when you're doing it yourself.

[Warren Stupidity]

19. Did you want a broader brush? More tar?

[hifiguy]

42. I have no time for HRC whatsoever, none,

and can say why in plain and uncontroversial English.

She called a monstrous war criminal who is responsible for the deaths of millions of people a "defender of human rights." In PRINT. Anyone who applies that description to Henry Goddamn Kissinger is, IMO. preemptively disqualified from any political office.

She is far, FAR too close to the banksters who nearly destroyed the economy

She didn't have the courage to vote against the Iraq War

She is far too hawkish for my tastes and those of most liberals

She seems to have only one core principal - her own advancement

She is laughably out of touch with ordinary people. Being wealthy and well-connected tends to explain that

i do not like dynastic politics. Surely there are individuals not named Clinton (or Bush, for that matter) who would make far better presidents.

I do not consider her to be at all trustworthy

She speaks in clearly triangulated, focus-grouped, Goldman-approved sound bites when she says anything at all in public

And before anything is said, if it were Elizabeth Warren running instead of Berhie Sanders, I would support her as wholeheartedly as I do Bernie.

[geek tragedy]

50. And amazingly you didn't need to sexually degrade her in

that post, despite making clear your intense personal dislike of her.

As your post amply demonstrated, there are enough policy-based critiques to allow anyone to bash her without going there.

[hifiguy]

62. I have my personal rhetorical style,

others have theirs. To each their own.

[geek tragedy]

79. Misogynist language isn't a rhetorical style

It's just misogyny, the misogyny of low-functioning misogynists too dumb to speak in code even.

[Walk away]

53. I'm just saying.... it will be a bi-polar day here at DU when the Senator goes back to Vermont

That hatred level must be a real high for some of you but I'm sure the down will be scary. I don't have all this intense hatred. It seems to be a common Berniephile trait!

[hifiguy]

58. You didn't try to refute a single one of my rationally expressed

criticisms. No surprise.

And it isn't hatred, just a profound and deeply felt disgust with "business as usual" and those who see nothing wrong with the central rotten elements of the status quo continuing endlessly.

[cui bono]

92. Oh please... just stop with that fucking Bernie supporters are mean meme. Just look in the HRC group

FFS. They are so nasty in there it doesn't come close to anything except the comment the OP is about.

Not even reading the rest of your post because you started with a false premise.

[whereisjustice]

124. set their endorphins bouncing around... in order to reach a state of complete delusion...

Are you a doctor? Or do you just play one on DU?

[geek tragedy]

12. Definite red card offense.

And, from Sanders' supporters' perspective, horribly stupid as well as toxic. Want to validate the claim that opposition to Clinton is, at least sometimes, rooted in misogyny?

Do that.

[Warren Stupidity]

16. So it is ok to call men whores?

[geek tragedy]

20. Is it ok to call men "cunts" or "bitches?"

Is it okay to call heterosexual men "cocksuckers?"

[Warren Stupidity]

24. you tell me. I'm not the one having selective outrage.

[geek tragedy]

29. No, it's not. Some words are so bound up

with toxic misogyny (or homophobia or racism etc) that there's no space for them.

It's rhetoric beneath Donald Trump.

[treestar]

112. No.

It's related to the slur. It's saying they sold themselves, which for men is an actual something and not just their body, but the metaphor is there.

[Major Nikon]

138. Absolutely

You can all men all manners of effeminate slurs and you can also outright say they have a limp dick and/or a small penis.

You can do all of those things with abandon and without any fear of finger wagging, but if you use certain words against women then it's not OK even if the context suggests other meanings.

Two sets of standards to know and abide, which is in itself kinda the epitome of sexism if you think about it.

[sufrommich]

17. Yes,yes and yes!

[progressoid]

30. So, "K-Street escort" then?

[wyldwolf]

36. how about sellout? Yeah, I know, doesn't have the same sexist bite to it, huh?

[still_one]

57. amazing the defenders of vulgar language to characterize their political opponents. Says volumes

about their communication skills. It is really a sad state of affairs.

I love the one justification I keep hearing, "Oh it is common usage in the UK to use the "c" word"???? Does that make it ok?

[Laser102]

81. No. It doesn't make it okay. It will NEVER make it okay. Vulgar and common. No excuses.

No one can justify that type of language.

[still_one]

88. There appears to be some who do. It also isn't because I am a "prud" or "overly sensitive". There

are certain words that convey the worst elements of sexism and racism, and it does nothing to further their case. In fact I would say it detracts from the very point they were making, so it is self-defeating

[geek tragedy]

85. I wonder what the reaction would be if Limbaugh used

these phrases against Elizabeth Warren--how many defenders he would have here.

[still_one]

90. I think we all know the answer

[treestar]

116. Really. I wonder what's so hard about that.

They just don't think that sounds "bad" enough. Which is they are doubling down because the misogynistic term makes a person "worse."

[geek tragedy]

38. How about avoiding using sexual degradation

when talking about a woman?

Radical concept, huh?

[still_one]

67. It isn't rocket science is it, though based on some of the posts one would think it is

[Adrahil]

47. Mercenary would be a good alternative. nt

[treestar]

118. Yes. In a way that's the male equivalent

selling his soldier/loyalty, etc. for money. Except for a man, it's what he does, not just his body.

[Indepatriot]

108. Very nice. Discriptive and hibrow.....

[Adrahil]

51. The term "whore" is irredeemably misogynist.

It's rhetorical power is based on shame. In this case, the sexual shame of a woman selling her sexual virtue in exchange for money.

Thee is no term for a man that has the same kind of rhetorical power. It is irredeemably misogynist.

It is always a bit misogynist when used, but used against a woman, it is doubly so.

Use the term mercenary instead

[PeaceNikki]

63. This ^

[aikoaiko]

54. I don't think men find it complimentary either.

[pampango]

59. It is a macho, misogynistic term that is used against all classes of women, not just rich/powerful

ones. I sense that it is used less commonly than it was a few decades ago but that might just be me getting older. It certainly has no place on DU but when emotions run high we say things that make us sound like immature young men.

[daredtowork]

94. That was a DONALD TRUMP move for CHEAP MEDIA

Why is the most clownish of clown candidates Donald Trump even considered a viable candidate for President of the United States?

Because there are people who want to vote for him.

Why would people ever consider voting for this overbearing ignoramus who might as well wear a clown suit to all his public appearances?

The people who say they want to vote for him say that it's because he is not "politically correct" and he says what "everyone is thinking" which must be "the truth". All that education and social science and progress is just a load of hooey. Their natural instincts and gut feelings are what's true. Discrimination and knee-jerk reactions are what's true. Big data is just the tool of a the man in the suit who gets paid a ton of money to take stuff away from you.

Donald Trump knows that appealing to these base instincts is satisfying to a certain swathe of voters (Tea Party America, the Angry White Man...), and yelling those "not politically correct" "truths" sounds like the truth (and America) winning over stodgy old political correctness. And since it's loud and incorrect, the media is there when Trump steps up to the bully pulpit.

Alan Grayson, shame on you for pulling a Donald Trump at the expense of women. He knew using the word "whore" would be controversial - but he used it anyway because being politically incorrect would have more impact for it's "truthy" daring and it would attract the media like flies. This was a DONALD TRUMP move, and people who pull it should be sentenced to wear a clown suit and called on what they just did. For a little media attention, they reinforced and upheld the basest, most uneducated part of American psychology. And in Grayson's case, he did it at the expense of women! What a lame way to get cheap media attention.

The way we should start shaming this is associating it with Donald Trump, and perhaps the movie Idiocracy - though I don't know if enough people have seen that. Can we call it "playing a Trump card"? "Quacking like Donald?"

[Lil Missy]

104. It's an insult to non-powerful women (and men) too.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

136. Ultimately, invoke Bill Clinton's wisdom about this

An insult is only an insult if it is accepted. Up to that point it is an attempted insult.

"It's not what they call you, it's what you answer to." -- Bill Clinton

If someone calls you a whore, say no (if you respond at all), and go on to the next thing as if nothing happened.

If they repeat it, then shut them down by pointing out that when people attempt (key word) personal insults it shows that they have no facts and no logic and no reasoning to continue a rational debate. They got nothin'.

[bluestateguy]

150. Or calling a black male politician "boy"

It has a clear and historical racial connotation and should be avoided.

But if someone called George W. Bush or Bill Clinton "boy" that would not be the case, though it would still be disrespectful.

[hobbit709]

156. How about wholly owned subsidiary of Wall Street?

[SidDithers]

160. The right hates Hillary. The fringe left hates Hillary...

and, it seems, they use the same language to demean her.

Sid

[Omaha Steve]

171. Locking as disruptive META

A consensus of hosts have decided to lock this as META.