Hilary Clinton campaign: "Equal"

[brooklynite]

[MannyGoldstein]

1. Cracks me up

Clinton was against marriage equality longer than most Americans, and now she's running around being all Ms. Marriage Equality.

It's a riot.

[brooklynite]

3. Politicians evolve...

I believe that President Obama did as well.

Liberals voted for him. They'll vote for her.

[frylock]

7. Some people evolve. Others lead.

[NCTraveler]

14. You make a very good point and it should be noticed.

Not only did Obama evolve, he has turned into a leader and an friend on the issue. Seems Hillary is doing the same. Evolving and speaking to a cause is positive. Actually making changes is huge. Great job on Obama for not just evolving, but leading.

[frylock]

88. Hmmmn, yes..

kudos.

[Marr]

50. Centrists will *never* lead in a leftward direction, even on the social issues they use as their

Democratic bonafides, because they're only using those issues to gain maximum political advantage for as long as possible, staking out territory just a sliver to the left of the competition.

[U4ikLefty]

11. They (politicians) put their finger to the wind & then "evolve"

Don't you have a "salon" this week?

[NCTraveler]

17. You are one of Hillarys strongest supporters.

When you view this as a negative, she gains in support. Really fucked up that this is a negative for you. Another voice for equality pisses you off. Really fucked up. If a republican came out for marriage equality I would give them a high five. Here we have a progressive doing it and you think it is negative. If another great voice for equality cracks you up or pisses you off, have at it.

[Exilednight]

19. There is a false equivalence in your statement.

A Democrat should have evolved eons ago, and not waited until the political winds shifted. We're suppose to be the party of liberal values, not the party of political shift after the winds have changed.

A Reupblican coming out would be going against their party, not following it. It's more believable knowing they will probably blow their chance at reelection by taking a stand.

[BlueCheese]

21. Manny, I generally really like your posts.

First Way, Second Way, or Third Way, they were all a hoot.

But primary season or no, Democrats should be praised when they spread positive messages like this. Or at least not criticized.

If you want to find reasonable things to criticize Clinton for, I'm sure you can find them. But pounding on her for a message like this? Come on.

[MannyGoldstein]

26. Were that a public service announcement...

She's trying to paint herself as a leader in civil rights, when she's a follower.

[BlueCheese]

29. Still, she's saying the right thing now.

I see your point, and I understand why you see the message as a bit glib.

It's true that a lot of our national leaders were very slow on marriage equality. For heaven's sake, Dick Cheney was in favor of equal rights in this regard before Obama, Clinton, and I think Kerry. They were given a great opportunity to be leaders, and they didn't take the chance. But they got there finally, and now they're lending their voices now to continue the struggle.

[Bernie 2016]

31. And I just found this..

[MannyGoldstein]

33. WOW!

That's awesome. Do you know what year that speech was?

[Bernie 2016]

34. 2004, I think.

This is probably in reference to this...

[MannyGoldstein]

37. Well, the alcohol in beer is yeast whiz

Will that do?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026899411#post31

[MannyGoldstein]

40. No worries, friend!

I knew this kind of thing would happen the moment America's Next President™ started stumbling in the polls, so I don't take it personally.

[Major Nikon]

43. 3 in 3 minutes

Must be going for the record.

[Thinkingabout]

68. I like the term our next President, sounds really good

[sheshe2]

41. Do not do the pot kettle thing.

You were a Republican before you were a Democrat, at least that is what you told us.

Warren, who you support was a Republican before she was a Dem.

You both can change and Hillary can't?

Pot/ Kettle. You lost.

It is indeed a riot.

[MannyGoldstein]

55. Since you're such an expert on me,

perhaps you can tell everyone when I ceased being a Republican, and embracing Republican policies?

[sheshe2]

82. You were the Republican, you tell me.

Do you not remember when you switched camps?

Hey Manny, I remember the dress I wore to the junior prom. Why can't you recall when you joined the Democratic Party? That should have been a game changer for you.

You are just playing games. This is life and death. You want to play. I find that sad.

[MannyGoldstein]

83. Sure. More than 30 years ago. But what do you think

of people who still believe, to this day!, that 1980s Republican policies are what's best for America?

I guess that's not life and death?

(Somehow, I don't think I'll get a straight answer...)

[hrmjustin]

53. As a gay man I am proud to support Hillary.

[bettyellen]

62. And Warren and Republicans watched so many whither and die from AIDS

And didn't give it a thought. Wasn't that your party back then too?

[MannyGoldstein]

66. Tell you what:

If you'll stop lying about Warren and I not giving a thought to the awfulness of AIDS, I won't claim that you don't give these a thought:

Hillary Clinton Voted to Continue Cluster Bombing Civilians

Deal?

[bettyellen]

72. Lol, I don't make deals with people who chose to be Republicans as adults.

Can't say I have much trust or respect for them.

[MannyGoldstein]

78. Obama: My policies are those of 1980's Republicans

[BainsBane]

70. Exactly.

If she were running we'd have a million excuses for why it doesn't matter. In a thread about gun control, we were told that Sanders votes from a few years ago didn't matter, that we should stay in the present. Principle and issues matter not in the least.

[bettyellen]

73. Cannot respect anyone who voted for Reagan or a Bush. Not happening.

[BainsBane]

76. Same here

especially when they lecture us about how the Democratic Party isn't good enough.

[MannyGoldstein]

80. Obama: My policies are those of 1980's Republicans

[bettyellen]

93. Lol yeah- Dems and Republicans are all the same, ha ha.

We know Manny, we've heard you post a hundred variations on the theme of how sucky Dems are.

[MannyGoldstein]

95. Looks like your argument is with our President

based on that video. Not with me.

How do you feel about the President claiming that the President is basically a 1980's Republican? Is it a race thing? Some sort of dog whistle? Is the President a Republican disruptor? Libertarian?

[bettyellen]

97. not arguing with you, but do go on about dog whistles and other completely unrelated matters.

Last edited Fri Jun 26, 2015, 09:57 AM - Edit history (1)

Why would I argue with anyone who was fooled by the Republicans for so long? And is only interested economic policies now? Your heart is located in your wallet, always has been. Not interested in the least.

[BainsBane]

91. Most Americans?

Let's see the poll results to back that up.

[MannyGoldstein]

94. LMGTFY

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/03/18/hillary-clinton-comes-out-in-support-of-gay-marriage/

http://www.gallup.com/poll/117328/marriage.aspx

I await your explanation as to why I suck.

[DonViejo]

98. Arrogant? Self-righteous? Condescending? Malicious and unpleasant?

[Agschmid]

104. 2-5 btw.

[SidDithers]

99. Bitter, table for one...

That's your response after watching the video?

Says a lot about you, Manny.

Sid

[bettyellen]

105. Priorities Sid! Not everyone shares the socially liberal ones...

They think *other* people are foolish to want their rights, because their own paychecks are more important.

[Iliyah]

2. NICE

[Ken Burch]

4. She has no right to claim that issue as her own.

Bernie backed same-sex marriage when HRC was still defening DOMA.

HRC is no more gay-friendly than any other Dem candidate.

[brooklynite]

8. And Bernie is free to post his own advocacy message...

[Luminous Animal]

25. He already did. He voted against DOMA and DADT when both Clintons were touting it.

[DonViejo]

103. Do you have a link or links to articles reporting the Clintons were touting

DOMA and DADT? Tia.

[JI7]

9. is she stopping Sanders from reaching out to others ?

[Ken Burch]

10. His voting record is the outreach.

He's reached out his entire life.

[brooklynite]

12. "His voting record is the outreach"?

So he doesn't have to do anything? Voters will just look up his record and be convinced?

Personally, I think Sanders' campaign team is more politically astute than that.

[Ken Burch]

18. He's going to talk about it and he's already proved himself.

The claim that Bernie won't be strong on anti-oppression issues has been discredited over and over.

It doesn't matter that it hasn't been in his first speeches.

As the old saying put it "Actions speak louder than words".

[brooklynite]

20. The issue isn't WHAT he says; it's how often he can say it...

...without funds for ad buys, it's not practical for him to reach enough voters through direct speeches. I hope his staff realizes that.

[Fumesucker]

22. Nah, the issue is whether people believe it

It's possible to make people believe an untruth to an extent if you repeat it loudly and often enough but the quiet truth is hard to refute.

[MannyGoldstein]

35. How much will Hillary have to spend

Just to eat her own words?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6905354

Bernie doesn't have that issue.

[sheshe2]

57. He had a chance today on NPR.

He kept harping back to 'economic justice is the answer'. Go listen, I did.

[KittyWampus]

48. No, voting records aren't "outreach". LOL.

[Marr]

56. True, his voting record proves *actual* support. This is campaign advertising.

Hillary was nowhere to be found on this issue when her support was actually needed. In fact, she was worse than MIA-- she was fighting it.

[840high]

89. +1

[NCTraveler]

15. When did she claim it as her own?

Other candidates can't fight for equality because Clinton has cornered the market? Very strange thought to have.

[DawgHouse]

23. Never, that's when.

[sheshe2]

44. Link please.

FYI

Bernie is an Independent.

[Ken Burch]

47. He's standing for the Democratic nomination...that's what matters.

It's enough that he's always organized with us.

[sheshe2]

51. He is having huge ballot issues in NH.

He needs to change his status to Dem. He needs to declare as a Dem to run. There are laws in certain states. He is not above the law. His campaign needs to get more organized.

[antigop]

5. as one DUer has said: "We'll all be equal in the breadlines." nt

[winter is coming]

13. Haven't you heard? The statistics say that things are getting better!!! n/t

[BainsBane]

71. No, as a mater of fact, we won't be

and if you think that you have no idea what country you're living in.

[frylock]

6. Get this out there! Stat!!

[NCTraveler]

16. Good on Hillary.

Really telling that some seem to be upset about this.

[Luminous Animal]

32. I'm not upset by this. I find it sneer inducing. She has spent decades defending DOMA

touting her 'Christianity' as a justification for that extremely hateful, bigoted, homophobic, uncivil, legislation called the Defense of Marriage Act.

My community in San Francisco fought tooth and nail against the Defense of Marriage Act when it was proposed and we fought tooth and nail when it was headed to Bill Clinton's desk and we cried bitterly when he signed it. What is insulting is that for 26 years, while we fought, SHE and the legislation that she defended FOR DECADES, she tries to use to her advantage.

And now that the social winds have changed, so has she. Always the panderer. Rarely the leader.

I believe that Obama did the stand up thing when he announced and explained his shift to support marriage equality. Hillary has done no such thing. It is all surface and little substance with a feel good commercial straight-washing her bigoted past.

[Marr]

58. +1

[Grilled Charlie]

60. I feel like going to IHOP

Watching all of this sticky sweet syrup being poured all over Hillary's waffles is making me hungry!

[Cha]

24. this is a beautiful message.. mahalo Hillary. The bitters crack me up.. lol

mahalo brookynite.

[Luminous Animal]

42. That 26 years of fighting for marriage equality was a result of DOMA. Legislation that Ms Clinton

has touted as a success for decades. Bitters? How about bitter tears that were shed by me and my compatriot activists who fought from day one when the legislation was proposed to the day when the Defense of Marriage Act was signed by my Democratic President and touted as good 'Christian' legislation by Ms Clinton. And the Defense of Marriage Act emboldened state fights across the nation because the states followed the Feds.

This Coca-col… campaign commercial does not and cannot cancel out her damaging and bigoted record. It is not a mea culpa as was Obama's brave announcement of his evolution on the subject of marriage equality to the nation.

It is an attempt to erase. She does not address her past. She pretends it does not exist and that our pain is NOT a result of legislation that she supported. FOR DECADES.

[Cha]

46. Like I said.. "the bitters crack me up." So very.. oh my gods.. they can't take anything. It's so

freaking funny.

[whatchamacallit]

27. About as genuine as

[fadedrose]

28. But, but

Joe Biden was all for gay rights way before anybody else....he beat Obama in his announcement, and I kinda thought Obama was embarrassed about I...

I wish I had a clip of those comments he made...

[Cha]

49. I don't think the President was "embarrassed" at all, fadedrose. And, I don't really care who was

for it first. Thankfully for Gay Rights.. the majority in the country is for Equality now!




Mark Knoller
✔ ?@markknoller
TV cams at LGBT Event could barely see @POTUS and @VP for all the smartphones in the air snapping photos.
11:41 AM - 24 Jun 2015

President Obama Hosts a Reception to Observe LGBT Pride Month

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/06/24/president-obama-hosts-a-reception-to-observe-lgbt-pride-month/#comments

[sheshe2]

77. But But.

Who the hell cares who came out of the starting gate first. It is about those that go the distance and finish the race.

Try goggling all those comments that are so embarrassing. I will wait while you do.

[Divernan]

45. I've never seen a poster get 3 hides in 1 thread - but fully deserved.

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS

This poster is out of control with the crude, vulgar language swathed in rage. Come on DU - surely we are better than this!

JURY RESULTS

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Jun 25, 2015, 10:40 PM, and voted 6-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Personal attack!
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Totally over the top and distracting.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Shame on the Hillary supporters for the name-calling, vulgarity, lies, and dishonest smears. Hope it blows up in their face like in 08. Hide.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. What's laudable and liberal about baiting a gay dude?

I would think the liberal impulse is to see a person in distress and try to comfort him.

[Divernan]

61. I don't give anyone a pass on on crude, obscene raging

in violation of DU standards (personal attack). The guy was totally out of control, whatever his sexual orientation. I'm just not into enabling such behavior.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. When I see someone in distress I try to see why and help him or her...

When I see someone in distress I try to see why and help him or her...Of course in real life that's fraught with danger so you have to be prudent. But here the guy was in distress and folks just baited him.


Liberals should be held to higher standards.

[Cha]

64. Yeah, ronny was only saying what it true.. but the language is too colorful.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. I am not even going to get into what he said...

The behavior was illiberal because the guy was in distress, nobody cared, and they just kept baiting him.

[Cha]

74. I know.. that's the way they are.. we've seen it all before.

[Divernan]

65. Nobody "baited" him.

The cold, hard truth is that HRC was outspokenly opposed to gay marriage before she was obsequiously in favor of it, and it was all recorded. Unpleasant truths for one of her supporters, perhaps, but truths nonetheless. Now, "baiting" would be to tell outrageous lies. That didn't happen. The poster who was the target of Ronny's attacks was even very congenial (see Post 40).

Do you really want to see DU descend into the level of obscene name-calling for which these posts were hidden? I hope not.

[Marr]

92. +1, agreed-- that was not 'baiting'.

The critical comments were undeniably true.

[Grilled Charlie]

52. I don't get it

Why don't people understand that it doesn't matter what she says she's for or against. If she wins the election, the only thing that will matter is what her shareholders and investors are for or against.

And not all of the adorable hipster Mormon Hillary Balladeers in the world can change that.

Bernie is the best choice by far, if he's owned by any one, it's the people. He'll work for us- not banks and corporations

[ismnotwasm]

54. What's a "Mormon Hillary Balladeer"?

[Grilled Charlie]

79. Don't ask me

Ask Chelsea's Mom

[ismnotwasm]

81. What?

[Juicy_Bellows]

69. Mormon Hillary Balladeers be power moonin'

To mash up two awesome things ive read here in the last two days.

[Cha]

75. No you don't get it.

[brooklynite]

84. That's why she voted for the Bush Tax Cuts, right?

Oh wait, she voted AGAINST the Bush Tax Cuts.

Then in 2007 she voted to repeal them.

But no sense ruining some good stereotypes, right?

[Grilled Charlie]

85. Thank you for "correcting the record"

But it's not a stereotype it's just a fact that her investors are not altruistic entities,
They'll expect a return on investment. I wonder what it will be and how that will or won't align with what she says now.
Don't you think that's a valid concern?

[brooklynite]

86. Considering I'm one of her investors, yes

I'm one of those 1%ers who maxed out to Clinton on Day 1. And the folks like me have a long shopping list: campaign finance reform, immigration reform, criminal justice reform, protecting women's rights, Government investment. etc. And I think she'll deliver.

[Grilled Charlie]

87. I hate to break it to you

But if your part of the 99%, then your contribution was likely paltry compared to the large Banks and corporations that bankroll her. So how well do you think she's going to represent you?

...you're last in the line buddy.

She might toss you a couple of crumbs if there are any left but aren't you worth more than that?

If you made an enormous contribution and you're part of the 1% then your support for her is understandable.

I support Bernie because he's trying to tip the scales back into our favor and I believe there's not another candidate in the in the whole 2016 election curio cabinet who is on our side other than Bernie.

How can there be? All of the others are corporate owned.

[840high]

90. ...^ that x100

[bullwinkle428]

101. Doesn't "investor" imply that you're expecting a financial return on investment?

[brooklynite]

102. Invest (noun):

to use, give, or devote (time, talent, etc.), as for a purpose or to achieve something:

[Betty Karlson]

96. Mrs. Clinton just touched my heart.

It took her a long while to get to this point in life, where she unequivocally stands with the LBGTQ+ community. But given the strength of her newfound conviction, I'd say it was worth the wait.

I hope she will find great happiness and reward in her openminded and wholehearted commitment. God bless her.

[SidDithers]

100. DU rec...

Must have something in my eye.

Sid