General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI don't think this is really about race at all.
I think this kid is no different than the old, awful white guy that killed the 3 people at the Jewish Center in Johnson County, Ks.
They are sociopaths who just get off on being the center of attention. You have to kill a few people in a flashy way to get that attention? No problem.
The guy in Kansas is now causing all kinds of shit in the Kansas courtroom. He is just loving all the attention. The picture I saw of this little shit he has a grin on his face. He's loving all this.
So these kids love the attention, too. Makes them feel like a big deal. They don't care one whit that they have just killed people to get that attention. The bombers in Boston, the killers in Colorado, this little asshole. There should be a way to weed them out earlier before they can cause so much pain and awful heartbreak.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)I admit it's more comforting to believe this to be the random act of a lunatic; someone alien to ourselves. The sad truth is, however, that the things this guy believed are shared by millions of our fellow Americans. Thankfully most of them don't express those views as murderously as this guy did; but they do share them.
Bryant
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Awful OP
jen63
(813 posts)As if the patches on his jacket and license plate weren't enough. Believe him!
It couldn't be any plainer!
tk2kewl
(18,133 posts)sufrommich
(22,871 posts)SCantiGOP
(13,881 posts)Is what the Ignore button is for.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)murders were indeed about race.
A cowardly, monstrous racist.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)I suppose his illness is that he's a hateful, murdering, racist, asshole.
His illness is not all that uncommon.
Igel
(35,404 posts)A distant relative went for a gun to kill off all the non-fervent-Xian males in his family. He needed to save their souls from the Devil, and once they were dead and they stopped being Satan's servants he could pray for them.
Sounds like a true fundie. Except he'd just had his psychotic break. His break was unrelated to his beliefs: stress and abuse, coupled with whatever genes he'd inherited, set him up for it, and stress in his life had peaked in the previous couple of months and skyrocketed that particular week. He snapped.
His primary problem was mental illness. His mental illness, those voices he finally listened to and obeyed, had to have something to chew on.
I don't think Roof is mentally ill in any diagnosable way. But the two, racial hated and mental illness, are distinct and shouldn't be merged.
cheapdate
(3,811 posts)My earlier statement was a sarcastic reply to the preceding post.
TDale313
(7,820 posts)He wanted to start a race war. Wore things that indicated his white supremacist sympathies. Drove miles to a historically significant Black Church. Denying the racial aspect of this is insulting.
malaise
(269,510 posts)HERVEPA
(6,107 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)He killed only others of a difference race. He told the victims it was due to race. He confessed to law enforcement it was due to race. He admitted he was and yet still is a racist.
I'm having a difficult time understanding what part of this simplistic and obvious progression is elusive...
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)Race had everything to do with it.
MineralMan
(146,364 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,890 posts)n/t
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)He said so in the church and also made comments about a race war after his arrest.
GeorgeGist
(25,328 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)LannyDeVaney
(1,033 posts)Think harder.
lame54
(35,395 posts)leftyladyfrommo
(18,883 posts)You make it about race. Or you make it about Jews. You make it about killing people you see as anti Muslim. And then you can sit back and just watch the chaos and pain you have created.
He just used the race card.
jen63
(813 posts)No doubts as to his motive here.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Are you saying that murdering 9 people in a church would not have been as big a deal without his obvious racism?
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)Murdering 9 people anywhere would have garnered a lot of attention. Stating what he did and the evidence from his roommate, his FB photo of the jacket with the flag patches....only willful ignorance or being in the employ of Fox News would lead one to conclude it wasn't about race.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)How much more proof do some need?
It's unbelievable the lengths some will go to to make excuses for this horrible racist.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)now about a bunch of people gunned down in Detroit.
It is not getting a lot of attention.
Gormy Cuss
(30,884 posts)for it to be big news. Getting shot at random in America isn't that special.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)He was a straight up racist. Why are you making crazy excuses for what he did?
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)are white racists who want to avoid nuanced, honest discussion of racism.
daleanime
(17,796 posts)smokey nj
(43,853 posts)Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #20)
Post removed
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Just stop trying to contort this into ANYTHING other than what it is. He's also a misogynistic pig. That doesn't take away from the fact that he went on a killing spree killing black people because they were black. He went to a black church to do it. If this was just about him being a misogynistic pig, I doubt he'd have to have driven all the way to that church to find some women to shoot up.
Please just stop.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)I'm sorry, but your whole theory is a huge pile of crap.
Eleanors38
(18,318 posts)This person was and is dentified with racist causes; he didn't just hang a hat of convenience on racism so he could slaughter a bunch of people. There are a number of dullards who drolly do that without need for a cause. That he gets celebrity status out of his actions doesn't negate his racist terrorism. And unlike many slaughter-boys, he didn't shoot himself or wait for the cops to do it. He wants his beliefs shared by others and wants to see that.
This is a celebrity culture, and he is one now. But his is an outlook he wants promoted and shared.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)Any more right-wing memes you want to bring up?
It's not a card, racism is a cultural pathology that is alive and well in America.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It kind of sounds like you do, and trying to dismiss the race angle. Sounds like you're dancing around some pretty fucked up thoughts here.
deutsey
(20,166 posts)Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)Sometimes one can speculate about whether race was a factor. In this case there is absolutely no doubt.
Spazito
(50,715 posts)"He said he wanted segregation between whites and blacks. I said, 'that's not the way it should be'. But he kept talking about it."
"She was told that the gunman "reloaded five different times" and that the gunman told the victims: "I have to do it... You rape our women and you're taking over our country, and you have to go.""
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-33189325
If you think this wasn't "really about race at all", you are badly mistaken, it was all about race. He was a rabid racist, full stop.
smokey nj
(43,853 posts)DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)If he wasn't the latter those nine dead African Americans would still be alive.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)mental defect. I feel really uneasy about that. Are we denying that a person can kill simply because of hate and evil? Do they always have to be mentally ill? Are we ignoring the fact that hate and racism are a learned behavior?
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,719 posts)In any case most racists aren't mass murderers, thank God!
jwirr
(39,215 posts)not act the way many do as we get older. They play together without discrimination. I have seen it in my multi-racial family. But as they get older you see children emulate their parents and begin to use racist words. Later it is often peers who teach them who and how to hate.
You can see this mechanism at work in religion. If you are indoctrinated from little on up you tend to hold on to these beliefs as you get older even if you stop going to church for further indoctrination. It becomes an engrained philosophy of life that you no longer even think of as religion.
In the 60s many of us stopped using the old words and ideas to teach our children about others and our children are no longer a part of the bigoted families we once were. We rejected the racist education of our ancestors. In my particular family that means going from KKK (great grandparents) to inter-racial marriages (my children and great grandchildren).
We were not born racist we either learned not to be or we learned how to be.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)---that this incident is about insanity, not racism.
Of course mass killers love the attention--duh--but this guy had a crystal clear agenda obviously reflecting the environment he grew up in. Racism and hate in all it's ugly forms, is at the root of this act of violence. If this is not a hate crime, just what IS?
*(And it's not about gun luv either, right?)...
Igel
(35,404 posts)I'm no a trained psychologist who's examined and tested him, either.
I can wait to see if he's had a psychotic break and racism was what his illness picked up on as justification; if he has some other diagnosable mental illness that requires attention-seeking and he knew this would be a really good way to get it (same for the patches, easily available for $2.95 on the Internet).
Then again, I do think he had an exaggerated self-importance and truly warped perceptions in wanting not just to start but to restart the "race war." I wonder which "race war" he was referring to? (Then again, I wonder that on DU when I read such things. 500 killed per year in a country with millions of guns and 300+ million people is hardly a worthy death count in a "race war."
I'm not going so far, though, as to deflect blame from him to a general attribution of guilt to family, community, or race, ascribing guilt and beliefs to people solely on the basis of their race.
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)On Fri Jun 19, 2015, 11:09 AM an alert was sent on the following post:
I don't think this is really about race at all.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026864828
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This post is so full of shit and insensitive. He said why he did it, and it's obviously about race. What's particularly insensitive (which is listed as a reason to alert on a post) is the minimization of this horrible event and the racism that was behind it.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 19, 2015, 11:20 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: I do have a problem with this post, and it's not the first time this person has said something questionable in an oblique manner.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Yes, the OP is WRONG WRONG WRONG!
But, it shouldn't be hidden, it should be cut down with the razors of logic.
Have at it!!
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: justanothergen - votes to hide - post was meant to be disruptive and in a twist of irony - a scream/cry for attention.
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-charleston-massacre-wasnt-about-religious-liberty
"A former friend who had reconnected with the man accused of a shooting massacre inside a historic black church in Charleston, South Carolina, said Dylann Storm Roof had become an avowed racist.
Joey Meek reconnected with Roof a few weeks ago and said that while they got drunk together on vodka, Roof began complaining that âblacks were taking over the worldâ and that âsomeone needed to do something about it for the white race
If theres going to be a conversation about the tragedy, lets make sure the discussion is at least rooted in reality."
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: While I think the OP is wrong and misinformed, if we start censoring posts that are confused or in error we will destroy at lot of discussions. Subsequent posts point out the error in the OP. Isn't that enough?
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: She's wrong, but, the replies are letting her know how wrong she is.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: This person has a right to his opinion, regardless of whether it is dillusional or not. Disagree? Say so.
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
**********************************************************
Here's what I think - as I owned in my jury response -
You know what you are saying is a lie - and you know that the racist asshole who did this was KNOWN to be a racist asshole.
No worries though - the poor widdle baby will get to go to 'happy dale' and finger paint for the rest of his life.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)But I know that this op perpetuated a lie.
I'm not a person of the lie.
TOS be damned - I'm not going to accept lies from the Right (Santorum or Haley) and I'm sure as shit not going to accept a damn lie from someone who is SUPPOSED to be an ally.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It's not- it's dropping a turd into GD.
Fuck that.
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)Will get them to come forward and explain why they felt a lie - god damned lie - nothing but a lie -
Is acceptable in this discussion?
She WANTS attention - that's why she posted this farce.
So c'monnnnnnnnnnn people - give her LOTS of attention.
JI7
(89,305 posts)JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)I've had a heavy heart the past day or so - and this made me smile.
ladjf
(17,320 posts)difficult to do.
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)If theres going to be a conversation about the tragedy, lets make sure the discussion is at least rooted in reality.
Joey Meek reconnected with Roof a few weeks ago and said that while they got drunk together on vodka, Roof began complaining that blacks were taking over the world and that someone needed to do something about it for the white race.
If theres going to be a conversation about the tragedy, lets make sure the discussion is at least rooted in reality.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)What is your agenda- move along?
onecaliberal
(33,037 posts)The Killer told those in the church that "they" were raping all our women and "they" needed to go. You can deny reality but the facts are, this was 100% racially motivated. Denial isn't just a river.
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)It doesn't have to be either/or. This was racially motivated.
Adsos Letter
(19,459 posts)Life is complex.
uponit7771
(90,379 posts)... others
Bluenorthwest
(45,319 posts)both crimes were hate crimes motivated by bias against the victims. Aurora guy went to a place with lots of people, not a place with a type of people.
This was about racism.
Logical
(22,457 posts)tblue
(16,350 posts)Hong Kong Cavalier
(4,573 posts)He admitted it was about race. His jacket had two notable white-supremacist images on it.
He drove 200 miles to get to that specific church on that specific day.
Cal Carpenter
(4,959 posts)Just weed out those troublesome, disturbed angry white folks before they cause the kind of trouble that makes people talk about the ONGOING SYSTEMIC RACISM AND CULTURAL RACISM THAT INFECTS THIS NATION, DESTROYS LIVES AND DIVIDES US AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE REALLY KEEPING US ALL DOWN.
And I'm NOT sorry for the all caps. It was a compromise between that and telling you what I really think about your theory and what it says about YOU.
randome
(34,845 posts)He is a racist and this was a hate crime.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]You should never stop having childhood dreams.[/center][/font][hr]
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Anything else is just so much bullshit.
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)millimeter of daylight between our positions.
To wit, one does not casually don the flags of Rhodesia and apartheid-era South Africa. Such is the act of a 'cold and calculating' racist, someone who has actually taken the time to affiliate him- or herself with racist regimes of the past.
0rganism
(24,006 posts)i think this case happens to be both.
there are a lot of racists who would never seriously think of going down the mass-murder path.
there are plenty of sociopaths and psychos who don't go out of their way to add a racial component to their inhumane actions.
there's still room for overlap.
Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I think it's important that we, as a society, try to answer this.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(116,113 posts)bigwillq
(72,790 posts)Lilith Rising
(184 posts)I mean it's been all over the place (and right here over and over) that he's admitted to the authorities that his crimes were race based. And even if he hadn't, it was obvious from the start.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)As others have pointed out, the shooter communicated his intent. In fact he left a woman alive so she would tell people he had killed the others because they were black "rapists," supposedly, though many were women.
So the question here is what is it that compels you to feel you must ignore the evidence to deny racism?
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)Solly Mack
(90,816 posts)His racist jokes?
His apartheid era patches?
His confederate car plate?
That he targeted and murdered African-Americans?
That he targeted a well known historical black church that was part of the underground railroad during slavery?
That he said, I have to do it. Youre raping our women and taking over the country. You have to go.?
That he confessed and said he was seeking a race war?
dorkzilla
(5,141 posts)He SAID it was about race. Sorry, you dont get to excuse this one as anything but a blatant racist attack.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)Do you realize the amount of cognitive dissonance required to step right up and say this shit out loud?
"You have to kill a few people in a flashy way."
Or you could confess to shooting a bunch of black people because they are black. And then watch the FOX News people and people like the OP go through some crazy contortions to make this about ANYTHING other than what it is.
Fucking unbelievable.
bluesbassman
(19,387 posts)Your hypothesis is incorrect and the continued presence of this thread is disrespectful of those who lost their lives and those that experience the racism that spawned those losses daily.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)He didn't commit suicide. So, he's talking and pointing out that he meant to start a race war. Everything he has done and said says it is about race. It's about race. How you can deny that in the face of the evidence, I don't know.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)To be why the US still has a huge problem with racism? The refusal of white people to accept that white people are racist is why Clementa Pickney, Ethel Lance, Cynthia Hurd, Tywanza Sanders, Depayne Middleton Doctor, Susie Jackson, Myra Thompson, Daniel Simmons, Sr, and Sharonda Coleman-Singleton are dead, and you just admitted to your part of the guilt. I hope it keeps you up at night.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)The OP should reflect deeply on her own views on race.
Of course, she won't. Part of the problem indeed.
Sunlei
(22,651 posts)probably influenced by whoever he hung around with on the internet or in real life.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)to prove to the world how special he really is, is about as racist as it gets. Even if your theory is true, that it's more about showing the world how special he is, the fact that he thought black human beings were not humans, but mere tools to propel him to his rightful place on the world stage, is exceedingly racist. He was beyond hating humans with darker skin, he did not even recognize their humanity. No matter which way you slice it, this terrorist act was driven by profound racism.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)That is exactly right, and the way she slices it is racist.
DawgHouse
(4,019 posts)He SAID it was about race. What more do you need?
99Forever
(14,524 posts)Just fucking wow.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)How MUCH MORE about race does something have to be before you will admit it is about race? You should self-delete your OP.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)He literally said as he was shooting that this was about race. What would it take to convince you?
ann---
(1,933 posts)Do you know what this murderer said to the black people that he killed?
Do you know that he SAID he wanted to kill black people. it IS about race.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)Just fucking stop it already.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)He would have gotten a lot of attention if he'd shot 9 random people in any random church. He chose this church for a reason.
Of course it's about race.
jen63
(813 posts)Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)When someone tells you their motivation, believe it.
Matariki
(18,775 posts)From the terrorist's own mouth it was about race. (The gunman replied, Yes. You are raping our women and taking over the country.)
How can you possibly think this isn't about race for him? And that it's not reflective of the sick racism in our culture?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/dylann-roof-plan-charleston-shooting
PeaceNikki
(27,985 posts)Your OP is ridiculous.
johnp3907
(3,737 posts)But you know that.
abakan
(1,819 posts)It was about race and I take his word for it. He is the only one who truly knows.
JI7
(89,305 posts)(Which aren't even really jokes but spewing hate) and tells those who object to lighten up and how they didn't hurt anyone. And then complain about political correctness.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)This OP is comically stupid.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and I'm so disgusted by it and the fact that a jury thought it was appropriate for a progressive website that I haven't even been able to think of words to respond to you.
WHY? Why do you try to minimize racism? What do you get from doing that?
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)I think it's good that we can see that roughly 100 people said 'Hell NO!' to this OP, and only one person agreed with the nonsense.
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)This one is learning nothing - she posted this bullshit then scampered off.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's about people who think black people should still be slaves, who think the Civil War was a 'war of northern aggression', who think it's perfectly fine to fly a confederate battle flag on a state capitol, to have it on a license plate. Idiots who think that a few genes that control melanin production in the skin make some people 'real humans' and others 'subhuman'.
If it wasn't about race, he would simply have gunned people down in the streets right where he lived, walked into a restaurant, a shopping mall. Not driven 4 hours away to arguably the most historic black church in the country.
tblue37
(65,590 posts)a despised "race," so his murder spree was also racial, just as the murder of Jews by Nazis was.
As it happens, though, none of his victims were Jewish, but he killed them because they were in "Jewish " locations, so he *assumed* they must be Jewish. He would not have killed them if he had known they were not.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,883 posts)I live where people are racist. Racism is so embedded in our culture here that you just can't get away from it. It's both black and white. Even people that hate the fact that they have a problem with racism know that it's a problem. We all know it exists.
We all live together. We work together, we go to school together, we shop at the same places. We get along. And most of the people here - both black and white - are church goers. No one would condone something so awful as this.
And the idea that someone would actually go into a church and just mow people down would be abhorrent to everyone here.
Even the most racist die hards like the KKK or the skinheads would mot do something like this. They have meetings and say stupid stuff and cause as much trouble as possible but they would not do something like this.
It's an abomination. Only a monster would do something like this.
cosmicone
(11,014 posts)AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service
Mail Message
On Fri Jun 19, 2015, 02:53 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Let me just say this:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6866424
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
Now she is defending Skinheads and the KKK!
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jun 19, 2015, 03:00 PM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Alert stalking is bad.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: *Yawn* Not that bad, imho. Hide the thread if you don't like it. Her point of view is on the minority granted..........
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Can't debate so alert ...pathetic.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's an opinion. Nothing to hide. Write a reply that debates the issue or put her on ignore. Let's not hide all posts that we disagree with or DU will become even more of an echo chamber that it already has become.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)johnp3907
(3,737 posts)Godzilla didn't do this, a human being did. It happens very often. One reason it happens so often is because of bigotry. One reason for the prevalence of bigotry is because people can't or won't see it. (See post 108)
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)How much more proof do you need that this guy was a rabid racist and white supremacist?
Way to water down and defend the KKK and skinheads too.
BainsBane
(53,137 posts)Not all mass murderers are racists, but some overlap, in a classic Venn diagram.
One sure way to know: the shooter says he killed because of race. Not too complicated.
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)KKK doesn't say "stupid stuff", they say racist stuff. Plenty of them condone what Roof did, even if they won't say it in public. You know that. When you minimize what they say and what Roof did, you are abetting racism. That makes what you are doing racist. You are helping racism thrive in America. Think about that for a while.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Wow.
I assure you that yes, racist people will mow people down in a church. KKK members are Christians, but they aren't above mowing people down in a church. They've done it before and they'll do it again.
Solly Mack
(90,816 posts)Are you serious? What kind of blinders are you wearing that you would say something so false, that denies the violent history of the KKK and white racist skinheads in America?
The KKK has a long, long history of burning down (and bombing) black churches and murdering black people.
Have you never heard of Byron De La Beckwith? (and the White Citizens' Councils)
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-files/ideology/ku-klux-klan
Have you never heard of Tom Metzger? Or about African-Americans, inter-racial couples, and Jewish people being murdered by skinheads in several states?
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/skinheads-in-america-racists-on-the-rampage
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2006/fall/motley-crews/racist-skinheads
You really think their hate filled meetings in no way carry over into their everyday life and how they treat people?
Yes. The KKK would commit murder because it has committed murder. Repeatedly.
Yes. White racist skinheads would commit murder because they have committed murder. Repeatedly.
Hate kills. Racism kills. Denying it only allows it to flourish.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)and Christians don't do stuff like that, you know . . . /sarcasm
Solly Mack
(90,816 posts)That burning a cross on Saturday was - somehow - mitigated by going to church on Sunday.
JI7
(89,305 posts)kill people ?
do you know the history of this country ?
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)No one has to condone this for it to be a fucking racist hate crime. (But the skinheads are loving it)
I can't believe that you are still pushing your ridiculous and offensive narrative.
A whole slew of people have asked you to delete your offensive posts, but maybe you are the one just looking for some attention.
fishwax
(29,153 posts)"It's an abomination. Only a monster would do something like this."
Obviously. And, in this case, a racist monster.
mercuryblues
(14,577 posts)I live where people are racist. Some are cheering his actions and defending them. Others, like you are giving alternate reasons for his murderous killing spree. By doing so you diminish the humanity of his victims and that is disgusting. His actions were the culmination of his racist hatred and anger, nothing less. Denying this is beyond repulsive.
You really think the KKK or skinheads would not do something like this? Are you FUCKING KIDDING ME??
http://www.splcenter.org/blog/2011/10/19/racist-skinhead-guilty-in-savage-murders-of-tampa-homeless-men/
http://www.nytimes.com/1997/02/28/us/ex-gi-at-fort-bragg-is-convicted-in-killing-of-2-blacks.html
http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/2009/12/black_man_killed_at_skinhead_nazi_strip_club_in_east_st_louis.php
http://articles.philly.com/1997-12-03/news/25556881_1_oumar-dia-nathan-thill-skinhead
http://archive.adl.org/racist_skinheads/states/california.html
http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/racist-skinhead-convicted-of.html
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/crime/skinheads-obama-assassination-plot
http://www.news4jax.com/news/attorney-general-3-kkk-members-arrested-in-murder-plot/32150592
Nope they don't murder, except for when they do.
No most racists don't go and murder people themselves. They do however contribute to a culture where it is acceptable and excused. They may not tell you to your face how they feel about this LATEST incident, but they do say things like, well maybe he just wanted attention or any other excuse they can drum up. Leaving them free to continue on with their unbridled racism in hopes that more people like Roof will come forward for "attention"
myrna minx
(22,772 posts)You are besmirching the memories of those who were lynched by the KKK or "boot partied" and murdered by skinheads by relegating them to having "meetings and say stupid stuff". Wow. I think you need to learn some bloody American history.
Wow.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)B Calm
(28,762 posts)HappyMe
(20,277 posts)every bit of crap thrown her way.
Humanist_Activist
(7,670 posts)due to the color of their skin, that makes it an act of violence motivated by racism.
edhopper
(33,707 posts)and you would be wrong.
lovemydog
(11,833 posts)Before, during and after the act. He said he wanted to kill black people and start a race war.
Perhaps you want to read more about it. Or maybe take a break from it for a while, as it is very traumatic learning about his motivation.
Do you think maybe you're in some sort of traumatic denial or grief?
olddots
(10,237 posts)backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Phentex
(16,334 posts)seriously. It most CERTAINLY is about race.
etherealtruth
(22,165 posts)... unless the perpetrators screamed racial epithets and clearly stated "I did this because they were black (or any PoC)".
Clearly I was wrong .... even when the vermin clearly affiliates with racist causes (apartheid error flags etc), clearly states that their heinous acts were based on clearly defined racists ideas .... there are (as evidenced by the OP) those that STILL deny the racist motivation.
This was a hate crime .... motivated by RACISM .... end of story
bravenak
(34,648 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)He's mixed up subcultures united by a hatred of Blacks and a love of guns. It's all-American, and all around us. It is most definitely political. See, http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026867017
Iggo
(47,625 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)Threw darts? This is ALL about race and some what to stick their fingers in their ears and go LALALALALLALALALA DIDN'T HAPPEN.
suffragette
(12,232 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)I always wonder. Why do white folks try to cover up each other's racism to the point that they will make up and excuse to pretend to them selves that race was not involved.
I wonder if they hate black people that much, that they are willing to go to the mat and play pretend. I find this op very hurtful. I will avoid you at all costs in the future.
JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)bravenak
(34,648 posts)alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)JustAnotherGen
(32,115 posts)Butterbean
(1,014 posts)Someone saying the whole "it's not about race" thing. It made my head hurt. I really, honestly, truly, cannot understand FOR THE LIFE OF ME how in the HELL one can know all there is to know about this event, know what the shooter said, know the location, the victims, and the nature of the crime, and still assert it's NOT ABOUT RACE. I really really don't.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2015, 08:29 PM - Edit history (1)
then yeah you would probably be correct. But with the statements he made while murdering them, race was a definite factor in this racist killing. I'm sure because he is just 21, the thrill of being a 'media sensation' has him smiling, now. I just want to see him when he ends up in general population in a prison. Since the 1980's, reagan years, and with the for profit prisons initiated during Clinton's tenure as head of state, the black male and female incarceration rate has exploded. I'm sure since this coward killed women and tried to kill kids, he will get what's coming to him. And deservedly so.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)He admitted he wanted to kill black people. What about that do you not understand?
Butterbean
(1,014 posts)chervilant
(8,267 posts)and since you seem not to see your own racism in the words you've posted, I am adding you to my IL, and trashing this awful OP. I am sure you'll be in good company with all the other racists, homophobes, sexists, misogynists, and verbal bulllies that reside therein.
fishwax
(29,153 posts)Just wow.
johnp3907
(3,737 posts)Last edited Sat Jun 20, 2015, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026871359ETA: Of course you don't.
dakdirty
(90 posts)It is amazing to me that anyone would be so insanely ignorant. The added use of the BS dog whistle of racism on both sides is the icing on the shit cake. I applaud you tho, for having the stones to be so bold in the declaration of your ignorance.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)Racism runs rampant in this country, especially on the hard right. Visit any hard right site, especially right now, to see it on display. The fact that this guy had one screw looser than anyone else doesn't mean it's not about race.
He deliberately targeted black people. It's about race.
For fuck's sake....
WilliamPitt
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