The Last (Hopefully) On Bernie Sanders And Race...

[WillyT]

Why Bernie Sanders doesn't talk about race
Dara Lind - Vox
May 27, 2015, 1:50 p.m. ET

<snip>
...

But there's a reason I say "those progressives" instead of just "progressives": because not everyone in the Democratic base shares those particular passions, or those passions alone. For other progressives — many of them black or Latino — economic inequality is important, but so is racial inequality. They're extremely concerned about racial bias in policing, and about ending mass incarceration. They're concerned about the treatment of unauthorized immigrants, and about protecting voting rights (an issue like campaign finance where progressives are worried the integrity of the political system is at stake — and where the outcome doesn't look good for them).

And Bernie Sanders doesn't speak to those concerns. He didn't mention those issues in his campaign launch yesterday, or in his email announcement to his supporters last month, and they're not on the issues page of his website.

This isn't an accidental oversight. These simply aren't issues Sanders is passionate about in the way he's passionate about economic injustice. When my colleague Andrew Prokop profiled Sanders last year, he pointed out astutely that Sanders's career has been "laser-focused on checking the power of the wealthy above all else." Sanders believes in racial equality, sure, but he believes it will only come as the result of economic equality. To him, focusing on racial issues first is merely treating the symptom, not the disease.

Even as a student at the University of Chicago in the 1960s, influenced by the hours he spent in the library stacks reading famous philosophers, (Sanders) became frustrated with his fellow student activists, who were more interested in race or imperialism than the class struggle. They couldn't see that everything they protested, he later said, was rooted in "an economic system in which the rich controls, to a large degree, the political and economic life of the country."

"Bernie is in many ways a 1930s radical as opposed to a 1960s radical," says professor Garrison Nelson of the University of Vermont. "The 1930s radicals were all about unions, corporations — basically economic issues rather than cultural ones." Richard Sugarman, an old friend who worked closely with Sanders during his early political career, concurs. "We spent much less time on social issues and much more time on economic issues," he told me. "Bernard always began with the question of, 'What is the economic fairness of the situation?'

So while there's one group of progressives who look at Sanders and see someone who has spent his career voicing their most deeply held beliefs about America, there are others who don't. And they don't have a Bernie Sanders — a decades-long champion — of their own in the race. Former Virginia Senator Jim Webb was interested in mass incarceration before it was cool, but also thinks the Democratic Party needs to do more to appeal to the white working class — so it's hard to imagine his campaign becoming the standard-bearer for nonwhite progressive concerns. And while former Maryland Governor Martin O'Malley has been trying to make a name for himself by running to Hillary Clinton's left on immigration, the protests over the killing of Freddie Gray and police behavior in Baltimore have reminded America of the role O'Malley played as mayor of Baltimore in creating the system that's so dysfunctional today.

<snip>

More: http://www.vox.com/2015/5/27/8671135/bernie-sanders-race

Put in a similar way...

To be clear, Sanders hasn’t avoided talking about race throughout his career because he’s a bigot. His motivations have been unsentimental and practical (again: Vermont is about as diverse as a Simon & Garfunkel concert). But they’ve been ideological, too. “Sanders believes in racial equality, sure,” writes Lind, “but he believes it will only come as the result of economic equality.” A politics of racial justice that neglects the question of economic power — or treats it as a secondary, separate issue — is, in Sanders’ mind, equivalent to “treating the symptom, not the disease.”

Link: http://www.salon.com/2015/05/29/hillary_clintons_latest_hard_choice_how_will_she_solve_her_bernie_sanders_problem/

[gollygee]

1. Hmmmm

I don't like that.

[Cheese Sandwich]

2. Me too

I'm not into this part...

but he believes it will only come as the result of economic equality

Racism is an intersecting issue with class and economic oppression.

Racism is real. Not all of it is due to poverty and class.

We have to work both tracks at the same time. We must walk, while simultaneously chewing gum. It can be done! We can do it!

I think as as a smart guy Bernie must understand this and I look forward to his undoubtedly upcoming comments on racism in America.

[gollygee]

6. So long as there is racical inequality

there can't be economic equality, because racism is a large part of what causes economic inequality for a great number of people.

[sheshe2]

3. Trickle down justice. We know how that is going to work.

“Sanders believes in racial equality, sure,” writes Lind, “but he believes it will only come as the result of economic equality.” A politics of racial justice that neglects the question of economic power — or treats it as a secondary, separate issue — is, in Sanders’ mind, equivalent to “treating the symptom, not the disease.”

I don't like this at all. Oh, this isn't the end of WillyT, it is just the beginning. One without the other doesn't work. Bernie is flat out wrong here.

[WillyT]

4. So... Let Me Ask You... What You Are Proposing ???

What Civil Rights Law, that does nothing for economic rights, changes the society for the better?

How will those rights manifest themselves if there are banks still red-lining neighborhoods for mortgage loans... for instance?

And since MONEY BOUGHT The Congress That Installed The BOUGHT SCOTUS...

How does one think they are gonna get their Voting Rights Back ???

I agree it should not be this way, but it's all about the money and the power.

THAT... has to be tackled first if you want progress on anything else.

[sheshe2]

8. No, it is not all about the money.

'Cause when you all get yours, PoC, Women and LGBT sure won't be seeing anything in terms of social justice.

[Tarheel_Dem]

14. +1

[AgingAmerican]

80. More manufactured outrage

Dishonest at that.

[sheshe2]

82. Wrong!

[AgingAmerican]

94. They cant defend the economy

Domestic spying, etc, so they do this.

[Katashi_itto]

95. Astroturf Outrage

[cui bono]

97. Ah... I see "trickle down" made it on the list of talking points.

[TDale313]

5. I want to hear him speak to these issues.

I say that as a supporter, and someone who does believe he cares about them.

[gollygee]

7. Yeah I want to hear something from him.

He will have to address this at some point.

[seabeyond]

9. i am very disappointed. i did not expect this at all. i expected more. truly.

thank you for posting this willyt

[JaneyVee]

10. Bernie got it backwards.

[Tarheel_Dem]

11. I don't think this will be an issue as his competitor is polling about 90% with African Americans.

He can address it or NOT. Doesn't make much difference. AFAIC, he never stood a chance with the demographic in question.

[seabeyond]

12. well, meh... he just is not passionate about social justice.

[Tarheel_Dem]

13. Being from VT, I guess he doesn't really have to be, if you know what I mean.

[seabeyond]

15. ya. he still has a lot of time to talk to us, but i cannot tell you,

once again, how very disappointed i am. i really did not expect this mentality. populist du? ya. it was clear. in our face clear. but sanders himself? not so much.

[Tarheel_Dem]

17. I'm sorry, but I won't get past that kickoff rally. He never stood much of a chance with me, but...

after that, I wouldn't walk to my bathroom to cast a vote for BS. The fact that he omitted the topic in his big introduction to the party faithful showed a singular lack of respect, and nothing he says at this point will make up for that. I'll say it again....do I think BS is a racist? Hell NO! Am I sure that issues of race are not a prime motivator for BS? You Bet!

"NOT GOOD ENOUGH"!

[seabeyond]

18. "singular lack of respect". that is what it was. i let it go, allowing economic ot be his kick off.

but it appears... and i say appears because it will become more clear, it appears that this is his position and recognizing the omission of so many people, so many democrats that are desperate today, were simply ignored.

[aspirant]

22. When Bernie becomes the nominee

you will choose to become a DISLOYAL Democrat?

[Tarheel_Dem]

29. I've always been a Democrat. I'll always be a Democrat. Bernie? Switched parties a few hours ago.

[aspirant]

41. I'm glad you will become a Bernie supporter

when he is the Democratic nominee..

"I wouldn't walk to my bathroom to cast a vote for BS" I commend you in seeing the error of your ways

[Tarheel_Dem]

43. Alrighty then. You've changed my mind.

[seabeyond]

49. good to know being the loyal democrat, if clinton wins, he will be voting for her. i will take that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

50. It does work both ways doesn't it?

[aspirant]

55. Does working both sides of the street make you dizzy?

[Tarheel_Dem]

60. Have a great evening.

[aspirant]

53. "I will take that"

Do you find pleasure in taking when giving is heartfelt

[seabeyond]

59. a vote for dem, is all about giving and not just to you and me, but the whole nation

[aspirant]

63. Are there TAKERS that vote Dem too

and what shall we do about them?

[seabeyond]

66. you have just gotten too cutsey for me. clueless. so, is that a yes, that you are a loyal dem and

will vote clinton if she wins the primary?

you didnt answer in your other posts, like, changed the subject, got cutsey and all that. but you didnt say you would. i want to know if it works both ways.

me? i am disappointed in sanders. and still i will listen to him over the months. and still, i would enthusiastically vote for omallery, sanders or clinton. you?

[aspirant]

68. Does Jaime Dimon vote Democratic?

[seabeyond]

70. meh... you wont answer. whatever

[sheshe2]

71. don't bother sea.

not worth it.

[aspirant]

72. Post # 24

What are HRC's specific solutions to racism?

You've never answered, I'm still waiting....whatever

[NaturalHigh]

74. Considering that you claim to be a Sanders supporter...

it sure seems that you find a way to knock him a lot.

[BrotherIvan]

75. That's a thing

So far there are at least six "supporters"--some with Sanders avatars--who think they are doing god's work by pointing out he is a racists misogynist. Curiouser and curiouser.

[QC]

77. They're just trying to work through their profound grief

at learning that someone they so deeply admired is actually a terrible, terrible person.

[BrotherIvan]

79. It must be so disconcerting

To find out that Sanders is Jewish and male. And he is the Senator from Vermont, which is just shameful. Really, it's just all so sad. I'm so glad it only took them two seconds to figure it out. Maybe they can switch their avatars back.

[Codeine]

20. Jury results

On Sat May 30, 2015, 05:26 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

Being from VT, I guess he doesn't really have to be, if you know what I mean.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6750312

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

People from Vermont have no need to care about justice for minorities. More racebaity trollishness.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Sat May 30, 2015, 05:36 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with the alerter, another slam on a part of the country, and a progressive part, at that
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: An opinion, only disruptive to those who have a different view.
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Debate it. Don't waste my time again with crybaby alerts like this.
Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh Jesus goddamn mothershitting Christ that's a stupid-ass alert. Please stop making DU suck, alerters!

-------------

No points for guessing which juror I was.

[Tarheel_Dem]

25. Oops. I forgot. The few remaining AA folk can't speak to race without being labeled "race baiters".

Where do these people come from? Discussionist? Bernie's supporters are gonna have to get over themselves. VT is a state with 90% Caucasian population, they don't have to be deeply concerned about the issues that affect my community, and that's no shade.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh Jesus goddamn mothershitting Christ that's a stupid-ass alert. Please stop making DU suck, alerters!

I wish I could buy this juror a drink. Thanks for letting me know.

[sheshe2]

33. May I join you, Tarheel.

[Tarheel_Dem]

42. Welcome to the club my dear She. This is taking alert stalking to a whole new level.

[sheshe2]

45. Gee whiz~

I thought I was special in there interest.

You won!

[Violet_Crumble]

62. Skinner said there isn't any evidence of alert stalking...

From ATA

The question:

It has been insinuated on occasion that there is some sort of systematic abuse of the jury system going on, where certain individuals or groups are being unfairly targeted through "alert stalking", jury bias or whatever.

I personally find this implausible (I understand that the random element and the 7-0 rule should prevent exactly this), but I'd be happy to hear it from you directly, since you have the information about all the jury results:

Is there any evidence whatsoever of a systematic abuse of the jury system that unfairly targets specific people or groups?

Skinner's answer:

We have no evidence that any person or group of people is systematically abusing the jury system. Occasionally people get upset and try to send a bunch of bogus alerts, but jurors aren't fooled by that, and in every case the person quickly gets a 7-0 hide and gets blocked out of using the system. After that, they realize it's not a very good use of their time.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12597979#post1

[sheshe2]

65. Nite Nite~

[Violet_Crumble]

69. Sweet Dreams,sheshe2!

[KMOD]

38. Crazy that it was even that close.

But #7 nailed it.

[davidpdx]

26. If you were #7 I love you

Cause that is right on the money.

[Tarheel_Dem]

39. I think we should have a party for #7. The alert stalkers have made this place really suck. nt

[davidpdx]

47. Your post wasn't hid, the alert was BS

Which is why I was agreeing with juror #7. So what are you crying about?

Please don't waste my time telling me that a certain group of people have rigged the jury. I've already read about that.

[Tarheel_Dem]

48. I think you may have misread my post, or I wasn't clear. I was agreeing with you.

[davidpdx]

54. ok

[Tarheel_Dem]

57. !!!

[sheshe2]

52. #7!

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Oh Jesus goddamn mothershitting Christ that's a stupid-ass alert. Please stop making DU suck, alerters!

Let's party~

[Tarheel_Dem]

58. You & #7 have made my night.

[sheshe2]

64. I had to chose my gif wisely.

The other two that were alerted on were Tina Fey rolling her eyes. And! And Audrey Hepburn blinking!!!! Blinking!



Who knew gifs were toxic here.

I stuck with the goose and pigeons. They are non threatening aren't they?

[Tarheel_Dem]

67. Who knows what's "non threatening" anymore? I got a hide for a pic of a campaign rally.

[aspirant]

32. What do you mean?

Which state do you have to be from to care about racism?

Maybe it is Wyoming, Maine, Idaho, Mississippi, South Carolina or even Arkansas

[Cha]

16. K^R

[seabeyond]

21. but really, tell me cha, ... are you surprised by this? i really am. i was off to bed. and now,

i am all like... wow. lol

[sheshe2]

35. Sad to say, I am not really surprised.

I won't say more on the board, sea.

[Cha]

37. Yeah, a bit, sea.. to have it written out like this. But, I'm so use to President Obama working

for civil rights and social justice.. and I would see quotes from Bernie made into graphics but beyond that I haven't delved into his history.

But, I did make a post about it on she's thread..

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6750366

[seabeyond]

44. ah. well. i got a hide on that thread. talking about black men being shot in the back

was deemed, "over the top". literally.

[sheshe2]

61. Sorry for the hide, sea.

Seems they are out in numbers right now.

Be careful.

[NaturalHigh]

85. No you got the hide for telling that poster "all well, in time maybe you will get yours."

[m-lekktor]

93. hoping a DUer gets "theirs" too (shot in the back) wasn't hide worthy to you?

WHAT IN FUCK???

[aspirant]

19. What are HRC's

specific solutions to racism that has been unresolved for how many years?

[SoapBox]

28. Exactlly.

Sheesh...we're hardly a couple days into his campaign and already some appear to have virtually judged him unacceptable. And that being from "conclusions" coming from columns (or the net or wherever)...

It's a huge topic to address...give him a chance.

Oh and be sure to hold each and every other candidate to the same standard.

[seabeyond]

23. who are these people writing this stuff? how reliable is it? who is lind? nt

[aspirant]

24. Where is Hrc's specific solutions to racism?

[SoapBox]

30. Plus 1000

[beam me up scottie]

31. Neither Lind nor WillyT speak for Bernie.

If you want to know his record on civil rights there's been plenty of threads about it the past few days.

[seabeyond]

34. he is not gonna be following along voting what comes up, he will be pres, enacting.

wto different roles.

if he is not passionate about it, or thinks economics is the answer, he will not be there pushing and moving. these are different roles.

i want to hear what sanders think, but he is not talking. why? cause he just is not passionate on the subject like he is with economics. that is exactly the question i have been asking.

[beam me up scottie]

36. He's not passionate about racial justice?

According to who?

He's been walking the walk for decades, sea.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026743489

If you can't see that it's your problem, not his.

[NaturalHigh]

83. Good grief. You criticize him in practically every single post.

If you don't like the guy, don't vote for him and stop telling people you that you support him.

I'm voting for Hillary Clinton, and I don't bother to hide it. I have no idea why you're trying to convince everyone that Sanders has your vote.

[TDale313]

40. That's what I want to know.

It's an opinion piece, obviously. Making fairly general assertions about Bernie's priorities. Not really based on specific quotes or votes from what I can see. If it truly reflects his take on things, I'd be disappointed to say the least- and fairly surprised.

[Zorra]

27. Bernie understands why things still suck for AA's 150 yrs after slavery ended.

It's because rich white plantation owners (global capitalists) and their overseers (the cops that work for the global capitalists and who protect their lily fields) are still in control.

[BrotherIvan]

46. Where are the actual facts in this article?

Now we have the social justice warriors on DU quoting it as some kind of gospel.

Here is an actual quote from Bernie Sanders given LAST NIGHT on mass incarcerations that speaks directly to social justice

QUESTION: We have a law enforcement quota, 34,000 immigrants are to be detained daily. Congress mandates that for a price tag of 2 billion dollars a year. About 60 percent of that is going to two corporations, Corrections Corporation of America and GEO. We are detaining people that present no threat, immediate threat to themselves or us. And then we see a certain Senator accepting campaign donations,

SANDERS: She's not talking about me so be clear (laughter and applause from audience)

QUESTION:– then he's voting against his own comprehensive immigration reform bill. I would like to know would you help us shut down the for-profit prisons, would you you shift money away from detaining people to other more humane methods, immigration judges for examples […] and would you work for comprehensive immigration reform?

SANDERS: The answer is, yes, yes ,yes. Clearly one of the crises we face in our nation is that we have more people behind bars than any other country on earth […] China is a nation that is 3 or 4 times larger than us population wise, it is an authoritarian country Communist country, and we have far more people behind bars than does China. And what we do in our jails is we run a great educational system, we education people how to be even better criminals. So it seems to me that rather than spending huge amounts of money on jails and on private corporations who are incentivized to keep people in jail, it might make a lot more sense to spend money on job training and education so that people do not end up in jail in the first place. And yes I'm certainly in favor of comprehensive education reform.

So how is he dodging the question again? This reeks of shill.

[beam me up scottie]

51. Thank you.

Do you have a link to that speech?

I'm starting to collect them to use in these bullshit ops.

[BrotherIvan]

78. It's almost to the top of the greatest

Link in the post by smokey nj

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12809724

[beam me up scottie]

81. Excellent, pleasure to give it the 97th rec!

His record on civil rights says more about Bernie than a crappy op ed piece.

Wonder when they'll get tired of beating this dead horse?

[BrotherIvan]

84. Never. It's all they got

Apparently whitesplaining is fun and rewarding. Maybe they'll pivot back to white hair, because you know, old people you guys! Then onward with the ultimate battle for social justice! Not since Hal at Agincourt or Elizabeth's defeat of the Spanish Armada has there been such a dedicated group of warriors to pat people of color on the head and tell them what to care about!

[beam me up scottie]

86. I feel you.

As a member of the naive wimmenfolk club who's too stupid to know what's good for me I sure do appreciate all those people who are so concerned about us.

Where would we be if not for them?

[BrotherIvan]

87. For real

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6750702

[beam me up scottie]

88. Nicely done.

I was trying to stay out of the GD primary season free-for-all but the shit stirring op that started all of this was infuriating.

And seeing you get lectured for having an opinion was the straw that broke this cat's back.

[BrotherIvan]

89. The difference is, I don't speak for anyone but Ivan

I wish people would realize their opinion is just that, an opinion. And there are facts, but some people seem to be allergic to those. This is the problem, we have people making things up out of whole cloth that do not have any basis in reality. But because the same 20 posters have the time to dump all over every thread and convince themselves that their bubble encompasses the whole galaxy, we get treated to their toddler's worldview. I mean, I don't have kids, but I have heard that toddlers are fascinated with everything that comes out of their body if you catch my drift: I made this! So we have the poster on another thread claiming that she checked her whitesplaining with two black posters and have their approval so anyone with melanin should just get on board. What the actual fuck?

[beam me up scottie]

91. Yep, they were her "research".

Who says something like that?

Seriously,


Prism's epic smackdown was a thing of beauty.

[BrotherIvan]

92. All of his posts were spot on

Spot fucking on!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

56. It's an Op Ed, but yes, some above have already internalized it as the gospel

I read the article. There are a couple of interesting points. But it's strictly an opinion piece, and it's amusing (but depressing) to see the put-on expressions of sad disapproval about Sanders' tragic race problem. It's theater, and it's a little ridiculous.

[TM99]

73. Sad but true.

Just another commentary that still doesn't address what he actually has done since the 1960's and has said even recently. He spoke out on Fergueson right after the tragic killing. He voted against DOMA & DADT which had economic AND social justice impact on LGBT persons. Clinton's support of DOMA set back civil rights for LGBT persons for twenty plus years.

This appears to be the line of attack that neo-liberal New Dems are going to take at a Sanders candidacy. So be it. I find it ironic given the overt racism of the Clinton 2008 campaign against Obama. But we will just counter the noise every day with the facts, his positions, his history, and his presidential proposals. Things have just gotten underway.

[BrotherIvan]

76. I am going to embrace it

I think this lunacy is a way to get the real information out there. It has been very productive to show the actual record of Sanders and to compare it to the actual record of HRC. As you mention, not every PoC forgets the race baiting campaign of 2008. And if they want to highlight Clinton's "social justice" creds, well let's do that. There is LOTS of evidence that needs to come out in the open again. Because this sad attempt at rebranding just highlights that incredible hypocrisy.

[WillyT]

96. Yep... And If You Read The Entire Article In The OP... That's The Author's Concern...

[Jamaal510]

90. Interesting read. K&R