Are you Freaking Serious? Freddy Grey was trying to hurt himself?

[diabeticman]

Just heard this on the late playing of Rachel and I am just stunned.

[chillfactor]

1. whitewash in the making...

what else can we expect?

[leveymg]

55. He was already grievously injured when he was dragged to the van. Videos from 2 angles below:

Those who saw the initial overage saw the officers pick him up. He tried to take one step, his face grimaced, and he fell. The cops dragged his limp body to the paddy wagon. The clips that I've seen lately on MSM have edited those parts out. Watch these two videos shot from different angles.

Here it is from another angle, shows him being dragged, his legs are limp:

[daleanime]

2. Who was pushing that pile of shit?

[diabeticman]

3. Rachel said it was an unnamed sorce and that the info came from a man now in jail who was in

the van with Mr Grey BUT could not see him due to metal barrier between them.

[Recursion]

7. Another prisoner in the van with him (the Police claim)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/prisoner-in-van-said-freddie-gray-was-banging-against-the-walls-during-ride/2015/04/29/56d7da10-eec6-11e4-8666-a1d756d0218e_story.html

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

51. the statement comes from the COP as if the prisoner told him, too bad days before the

police commissioner said no such thing happened

According to a timeline the local NBC affiliate swears by

[rufus dog]

4. And supposedly already debunked

But they have the reason not to charge and have tainted the truth.

This thing is going to get really ugly. To a level we may have never witnessed.

[gwheezie]

5. this is being disputed

By the way. How bout the guy in the van could have agreed to say anything.

[deutsey]

20. Jayne Miller is disputing it...she's a tough investigative reporter for WBAL in Baltimore

http://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/reporter-casts-doubt-on-new-wash.-post-report-436758595881

[JonLP24]

6. The show American Crime is very timely

I never seen anything like on network TV but you have someone on what appears to be trumped up murder charges because you see an effort to get his friends or associates (usually with something like prison hanging over them) to make up a lie pointing a finger at him very COINTELPRO-like. Last week a racist protestor "separation is beautiful" was shot at the end leaving at a cliff hanger but my immediate suspicion was it was another racist & it is the same immediate suspicion I have here.

Something stinks about all this with the behind the scenes politics. You have the mayor making it known she specifically requested the National Guard from the Governor & made sure to include he granted her approval to the press conference of the Governor chiding her for taking her time to make the request but it all feels like the Governor has something over the mayor, perhaps something else she needs unrelated to this issue but was only willing to grant it if she was willing to enable his spectacle of the national guard Troops which she is taking heat for waiting too long to order them. I don't know what but something is up with all this.

[Sparhawk60]

8. History In The Making

Wow, he must be the first man to ever beat himself to death with his bare hands. Mr. Grey showed no pity as he continued to kick and beat himself, even after passing out.

Or maybe, just maybe, the cops are lying.

[Calista241]

9. Maybe / probably the cops are lying.

But prosecutors will have to prove that in a court. And their argument can't be "that's clearly a bunch of bullshit."

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

52. Prosecutors? You are a glass half full I see, in Ferguson there was no prosecution.

Let's HOPE for a prosecution

[Oktober]

13. Folks with mental problems or under the influence...

... Have been frequently known to self harm.

It isn't unheard of or even that unlikely...

[Sparhawk60]

16. Hurt Him Self? Yes

beat himself to death? Not so likely. I do agree that convicting the cops of any serious crime will be a hard row to hoe.

[Oktober]

25. I was just refencing the fact..

... that self harm is not an unheard of thing.

Calling anyone who talks about clinic provable facts a racist says more about you than it does about me.

[LanternWaste]

49. I like to hide behind implication too...

I like to hide behind implication too...

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

53. There is no reason to respond to them anymore...lines have been drawn for sure

[Oktober]

64. Do you think saying it twice...

... Makes it twice as true?

[JustAnotherGen]

27. There is verifiable proof that

Mr. Gray was under the influence or in the midst of a mental break?

I wasn't aware of that. Hmmmm . . . That's interesting.

[Oktober]

29. If you find it, I'd be interested to see it...

I was referencing reasons that folks have been known to self harm.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Great - but not this guy

You put it out there to try and give a reason for - I don't know what?

Oktober (1,176 posts)

13. Folks with mental problems or under the influence...


... Have been frequently known to self harm.

It isn't unheard of or even that unlikely...

I'm not going to go looking for that - because I didn't put that out there. You did.

You wrote : Folks with mental problems or under the influence.

Why would you write that?

I'm not the only one who found that rather odd.

In a discussion about a man (Mr. Gray) who made eye contact with police, they then chased him down because he (for looking at them as a man and expecting to be treated as one in return by his public servants) - then from what it looks like - All of sudden he just happened to end up with fatal injuries.

Just find it odd that this would be part of the 'narrative' at DU.

Can't wait to read the next installment.


ETA - no worries - another poster just took us to the climax of the story.

[Oktober]

33. What exactly is your complaint again?

A possible explanation for behavior is not the same as a claim of certainty that it is the one and only explation.

I was responding to a poster, who I felt, was dismissing the concept of self-harm out of hand. I think it is serious enough that folks should leave their personal feelings out of it.

You seem sensitive and in a rush to take offense. Not everyone is out to get you...

[JustAnotherGen]

34. I'm so sorry

I hope I didn't touch a nerve. I'm not out to get you either. Seriously you need to relax.

[Oktober]

36. It's just the internet...

... and some friendly discussion.

What's to get worked up about?

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Exactly - re it's just the internet! One change -

I would call it polite and within Community Standards and TOS at DU.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

54. Dont know how you do it...I am in a RAGE so I wont even respond

[Runningdawg]

41. You know what is even more likely?

That he had a series of seizures AFTER a spinal injury.

[Oktober]

46. I wasn't talking about likelihood...

I was talking about possibility...

Likelihood takes expertise and information that the vast majority of the population doesn't have.

[frylock]

48. so do you think he crushed his larynx before severing his spine..

or was it the other way around? perhaps it happened simultaneously?

[JaneyVee]

14. His hands were cuffed.

[Lee-Lee]

60. While I am not saying that's in any way accuarate in this case, I've seen arrested people bang

Thier heads into the cage in the car with enough force to do damage and even knock themselves out and once give himself a skull fracture.

It's sometimes just stupidity, sometimes an attempt to claim brutality, sometimes its to try and get taken to the hospital instead of jail.

I have had it happen in the back of my car- almost always men arrested for domestic violence. Then they claim I beat them or that their spouse/partner did it and they were acting in self defense.

I'm not saying it happened here at all- but it is plausible in my experience.

Here is a tape of one example- idiots doing this is why more and more agencies have back seat cameras.


https://m.

[cali]

10. One lie after another about Mr. Grey- each one worse than the last.

[Robbins]

11. It's ferguson all over again

It's all his fault police are innocent and heroes.In ferguson it was all michael brown's fault and darren wilson was the hero.So what if his body was left to rot for 3 hours.anyone who said differently must have been lying.

this is MO.whitewash it so victim is the villian.And people wonder why some are pissed at police.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

56. Yep, shot in the head twice from 20 feet or more away, unarmed. And the filthy disgusting PUKE

walks free.

[Vinca]

12. This morning I heard a reporter say the prisoner giving the current story

was put in the van after Grey was known to be unconscious. She also said there is no other evidence of injuries that would bear out the story. The cops are going to make the situation a whole lot worse by trying to create a defense for their buddies that is a total fairy tale.

[diabeticman]

15. That is what I am hearing too but it is the fact that this is even out there....

It seems this is standard practice in these cases. Slander the dead or blame them for their death.

just make me sick.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. They are purposely throwing gasoline on the fire.

"Tee hee, tell them he broke his own neck"

[JustAnotherGen]

32. Thanks for this - re the fairy tale

I'm guessing that's the next installment in their narrative.

First he's high.
Second he's crazy/mentally not there (see Oktober's post above)
Third - the cops proceed with their defense based on this nonsense.

And it is indeed silly silly nonsense - it's like dealing with a four year old little boy who tells lies.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

58. The GALL of the cops to tell this lie ON TOP of everything else, jesus fucking christ

they dont just have NO respect for the AfAm community, they are daring the AfAm to do something about it, which is why they started the riot the other day, the cops, that is.

[Aerows]

17. So he 80% severed his own spine

while in handcuffs!?

[diabeticman]

19. I know...

IF he had the ability to do that one would think his first thought would be to break the handcuffs and doors down. no This guy needed to kill himself.

[DonCoquixote]

28. If he was able to do that

He should be doing an act in Vegas with Chris Angel. Seriously, the nature of handcuffs makes it difficult to do anything. I doubt a traoined escape artist could sever their own spine in that way.

You know, that would be a creative idea for a news report, hire an escape artist to see if Gray actually COULD do that. This sounds like a job for Mythbusters! I realize that sounds sarcastic, but those folks are actually quite good at debunking BS. Speakign of BS, get Penn and teller to test this theory.

[Aerows]

45. It's a bunch of horse shit is what it is

It has to be the dumbest excuse I've ever heard, and it's not even "the dog ate my homework". A human being lost their LIFE.

Extremely upsetting.

[fadedrose]

21. Too much

there's just too many Police "HATERS"

[Danascot]

22. What does the video that was taken in the van show?

Oh right, there isn't any.

[MerryBlooms]

23. Yep, it's a huge pantload.

I knew the dept. would try to do a cover-up, but even I didn't think it was going to be this nonsensical. If this becomes the official excuse, the shit's really going to hit the fan.

[DonCoquixote]

26. OK Baltimore PD , let's wave a magic wand

and say that he was trying to hurt himself...let's up the ante, say he was suicidal, trying to commit what was called "suicide by cop." Well, you are trained to deal with those people, are you not? No you not have equipment to secure people safely who are doing just that? I know that in prisons they do, and those are folks who are often suicidal (as I know from my days working in corrections.) Are you telling me that you cannot safely secure and transport a suicidal person, something Correctional officers do every day?

Well, that only leaves two options: You are either incompetent or malicious, either you could not transport Mr. Gray safely, or would not do so, and NEITHER is acceptable. Neither entitles you to keep your job.

[JustAnotherGen]

30. Thanks for upping the ante

Yep - at minimum they are incompetent.

[pipi_k]

35. Yeah, totally

impossible and improbable.

Except that I've seen video of people in custody trying to injure themselves.

One guy, arrested for being drunk and abusing his wife, being treated respectfully, handcuffed, is seen purposely banging his own face on the hood of the police cruiser while it's taking two cops to stop him (and yes, it's plain they're trying to immobilize him).

another guy, in the back seat of the cruiser...alone...banging his head on the window.

another guy, locked in a cell, running into the wall. That one actually tried to claim he had been brutalized by cops. I guess he didn't know about the surveillance camera

So. Does police brutality exist? Yes. I've also seen video of cops who went way beyond what they needed to do to restrain a suspect.

But it's also not beyond the realm of possibility that Freddie Gray might have done something to himself.

And for anyone who doesn't think something horrible could happen from what should be a minor incident, a reminder...

Dale Earnhardt Sr.

People have walked away from the deadliest looking fire-y crashes.

His hit on the wall that day looked like a bump. He's dead.


Nobody knows for sure what happened to Freddie Gray that day.

[JustAnotherGen]

38. A few people do

And they are all wearing blue.

[heaven05]

39. please

Last edited Thu Apr 30, 2015, 01:18 PM - Edit history (1)

spare me..... I know his spine was broken in *>>>EIGHT place and windpipe crushed. Ohhhh, didn't you hear? He did to himself....they are saying......

[JustAnotherGen]

40. I'm OK with that...

I still have a tiny bit of hope that the little voice of logic could break through one day... If only for a moment...

Hallelujah!

[frylock]

50. did you just refer to Dale Earnhardt's wreck as a minor incident?

Hitting the wall at that angle doing close to 200mph is a minor incident in your estimation? The fuck?! And please do explain the absence of any superficial wounds that might indicate that Mr. Gray inflicted enough blunt force trauma to himself to have severed his spine, as well as crushing his larynx. I can't wait to hear it.

[ScreamingMeemie]

57. That gave me pause as well. A bump, that was not.

Just because the car did not erupt in flames, does not a minor accident make.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

59. He didnt just hit it at close to 200 (he had slowed considerably before hitting but still fast)

but the angle and the FACT that the asshole (I hated him but respected him, watched him race in person and he was one of a kind) refused to wear a new brace that would have saved his life.

[frylock]

61. i disliked his personality and style of driving myself..

but to categorize that as a minor incident in defense of the pigs that killed Freddie Gray is fucking preposterous.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

62. This whole story is disgusting, first you kill the kid for no reason then you try and tell us he

killed himself?

Why should any minority believe anything any cop ever says ever?

As to Dale, his son is a closet quasi liberal, I think (probably not but I want to believe that) and i know for a FACT Jeff Gordon is a liberal

saw him at a Clinton/Obama event taking pics grinning from ear to ear

He wasnt when he was married to the religious nut job but then married a woman from Europe, she opened his eyes and dont doubt for one second Jeff had something to say about NASCAR coming out AGAINST Indiana

[frylock]

63. I get the impression that Junior is a liberal as well..

I can understand why he might want to keep that on the down low, and don't fault him for that. I like Gordon. Not my favorite driver, but he seems like a real decent person.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

42. No evidence found in autopsy to support such a ridiculous claim. nt

[Contrary1]

43. Or maybe having convulsions?

Writhing in agony from the injuries inflicted?

Interesting that this other prisoner is credible...while Mr. Gray crying out in pain was not.

[librechik]

44. I know--his mom should have slapped the shit out of that police official to say that BS

in public. What nonsense. That other prisoner is the van couldn't see Freddy. Maybe Fred was having a seizure. Maybe he wasn't alone and was getting thrown around the van by police. BTW, throwing people up against walls etc is a favorite police stronarm move. It could so easy be an accident.

[gollygee]

47. People will cling to whatever they can think of to absolve the cops

I am hearing this all over and it's driving me crazy! How can anyone believe this? But so many people do! Stupid, stupid people. They will, every single time a black person is killed by a police officer - or even a vigilante! - find some excuse. Every single time.