Edward Snowden Is Acting Very Strange Inside Russia

[Blue_Tires]

Andrei Soldatov’s beat is Russian spies, which is a hot topic for a new cold war. As editor of agentura.ru, an online “watchdog” of Putin’s clandestine intelligence agencies, he has spent the last decade reporting on and anatomizing the resurrection of the Russian security state, from KGB-style crackdowns on dissent at home to adroit or haphazard assassinations abroad.

Most recently, Soldatov and his coauthor and collaborator Irina Borogan broke serious news about the extent to which the Federal Security Service (FSB) was surveilling and eavesdropping on everyone within slaloming distance of the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics. Soldatov has just emerged from a writerly purdah, which has seen him complete his latest and forthcoming title with Borogan, Red Web: The Struggle Between Russia’s Digital Dictators and the New Online Revolutionaries. He spoke to me via Skype from Moscow recently about the latest Russian hack of the White House, the Boris Nemtsov assassination, the Boston Marathon bombings, reshuffles in Putinist spyland, and why neither Edward Snowden nor Glenn Greenwald will agree to be interviewed by him.....

I know you’ve tried repeatedly and creatively to get an interview with Snowden. How’s that worked out?

It’s still impossible for Russian journalists to interview Edward Snowden. It’s also impossible for foreign correspondents based in Moscow. I tried different tactics to talk to him. We had the strange exchange of remarks in the Guardian when he commented my remark on him and I commented on his, so I tried to use this to send him a message—hey, maybe we can talk directly? It failed. When I was in New York, I tried to talk to a guy from ACLU—Ben Wizner, Snowden’s attorney—and I told him, “Okay, you are not ready to arrange a meeting in Moscow but maybe from your office in New York I can talk to Snowden in Moscow.” No answer. I also told him and other people I’d interview Snowden for my book and that this wouldn’t see daylight for seven, eight months, thinking maybe it was a timing issue. But it was the same story all the time: No, I was told. I also put some requests to Glenn Greenwald. I got no response. I thought that was strange—if it’s all about Snowden’s personal safety, why Greenwald cannot talk to Russian journalists from Brazil?

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/04/13/edward-snowden-is-acting-very-strange-inside-russia.html

[MaggieD]

1. Why is it strange....

... that Snowden won't talk to a reporter whose beat is russian spies given that Snowden is not a Russian spy (or any kind of spy)? Why would Snowden associate himself with that?

This sounds like the media is pissed off that Snowden isn't giving out interviews left and right to every two bit reporter that comes calling.

[newthinking]

3. Yep. I am sure he is very selective. So far he has avoided interview ambushes

[MaggieD]

36. Apparently you haven't seen Citizen4

You should watch it. The interview with John Oliver was good too.

[Arcadiasix]

4. I'm sure Ivan has debriefed him. He is a spy.

If he wasn't he'd be in Switzerland, Belize,or somewhere like that. He has spilled his guts to them.

[marmar]

5. Paranoid fantasies much?

[Arcadiasix]

8. No I've held a security clearance for over twenty years of my life

He's been pumped for intel. They want as much intel as they can get on our sources and methods. He's a traitor.

[Jesus Malverde]

59. He's not a traitor he's a dissident

ugly isn't it.

[Bohunk68]

67. A security clearance is nothing more than

what it says. If you go into the military, you get a security clearance. It does not give anyone fantastic knowledge of everything in the spying world.

[frylock]

73. double-naught spy much?

[Arcadiasix]

77. No but I've had enough security briefings to know what he did is considered treason

Do you honestly think he hasn't handed classified information to China and or Russia? If he has, and I think he has that is treason.

[Arcadiasix]

10. If the roles were reversed and we had someone who had knowledge of Russia's or China's intel Ops

We'd do whatever we had to do to get it.

[treestar]

84. It's possible the Russians are not all that nice

They let him stay there. Hard to believe it was out of the goodness of Putin's heart. So it is a good possibility.

[Luminous Animal]

17. Hahahahaha!!! You are one year behind on your propaganda. There would be triumph

from Russia if what you claim was really true. After all, they've had a year to debrief. Snowden is nothing but a PR coup to Russia.

Oh, and "Ivan"?

What? Are you like 70 years old?

[Arcadiasix]

19. If he gave any intel to Russia he is a traitor

I suspect he is. He should hang. ASAP.

[Luminous Animal]

21. You sad sack of a wannabe executioner. Even our own government has asserted he's

given nothing to the Russians.

But I won't stop you from drooling over your death fantasy. In fact, give me more. Please describe in detail your imaging of Snowden's death from hanging. From his last words and then the hood being brought over his head to the grave solemnity of the spectators and that sweet sweet vindication of his dangling feet.

And your personal triumph. USA USA USA.

[MrMickeysMom]

30. ^

[jmowreader]

57. He didn't HAVE to give anything TO the Russians

When you post things on the Internet, as was done with Snowden's information, anyone can get it...you know, like Russian and Chinese spy agencies.

[Luminous Animal]

66. He posted nothing on the Internet.

[jmowreader]

68. Read for comprehension

The issue of the person who posted the information is immaterial. When he stole all the information that he did and released it to journalists, he had to have known it would end up on the Internet.

[treestar]

85. Interesting, because that means he did give out our intel

to every country on this planet. Yet nobody seems to criticize him too much for THAT. That could have been dangerous.

[Scootaloo]

26. "Ivan"? "He should hang?"

Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel

[newthinking]

45. For a moment it sounded like

we were on free republic. ugh

[MattSh]

40. This is what passes as Democratic these days?

Sad...

[JDPriestly]

53. Snowden was able to collect a large amount of information about

our sneaky system of snooping on Americans and the world, remove it from our system and take it out of the country without the slightest suspicion on the part of the company he worked for. He is obviously a rather quiet, shy man. Unless the Russians can read his mind via mental telepathy or through some other supernatural or very advanced technical method, they don't know a thing he knows that he doesn't want them to know.

Snowden is not a spy. He was not a spy. He is a patriot who realized that our government was dramatically violating our Bill of Rights, especially the Fourth Amendment but other Amendments as well to say nothing of the separation of powers principle that underlies the Constitution.

Snowden is a US patriot in my view. I assume that he has not changed in that regard. He was a patriot when he left the US and remains a patriot.

It is those who spy on Americans without a warrant based on probable cause and specific as to what and why a search or seizure is justified who are the traitors to the US Constitution.

[LittleBlue]

28. Switzerland and Belize can't oppose the US. Snowden ended up in China

and ultimately Russia because they're the only two countries powerful enough to oppose the US, not to mention they have the only two spy agencies on earth who are capable of foiling the CIA with reasonable assurance.

Imagine Belize and Swiss intelligence agencies trying to resist the CIA lmao.

[MrMickeysMom]

33. ...

ho-boy...

[MaggieD]

35. Oh good lord

Really? That's your evidence? I worry for our country when I see this kind of reasoning by people.

[JDPriestly]

51. Are you sure he is in Russia? Maybe the problem is that an interview

with a Russian would reveal how little Snowden may know about Russia. I'm just making a wild guess.

On the other hand, assuming to the contrary that Snowden is in Russia, he probably would not want to be associated in any way with a Russian reporter or possible critic of the Russian government that is protecting him. That would not mean that he would want to be associated with the Russian government in any way either. It would just mean that he would not want to either offend or befriend too much the country that is hosting him. Putin appears to be secure, but how secure is he really.

We should not forget that Snowden is a very level-headed, rational person. He will play it safe and stay out of Russian politics considering how smart he is. The reporter cited in the OP is involved in some way in the political game within Russia. No wonder Snowden doesn't want to talk to him.

These are just my guesses. I do not know Snowden at all. I have not seen Citizen 4 but I did read No Place to Hide by Greenwald. People may not like Snowden. People may disapprove of Snowden. But one thing is certain. He is a very brilliant young man. And what is more, he is very rational. I repeat that on purpose. Brilliant and rational. He will not be drawn into controversy that he believes is unnecessary or that he believes serves no moral purpose.

Whether you agree with him or not, he revealed what he revealed because he believed he was revealing crimes. I agree with him. Others disagree with him. But his decision to act as he did was one of conscience and not one of greed or egotism. That is very clear from Greenwald's book.

[Blue_Tires]

7. The one main journalist in the whole damn country

daring to report on *their* surveillance, spying, hacking, and other cyber stunts, and Snowden doesn't think he's worth talking to??

[Luminous Animal]

22. Perhaps Snowden thinks it would be worth it. Perhaps Snowden thinks that

talking with a dissident journalist in Russia is not worth both their lives.

[MaggieD]

34. I wouldn't.

Snowden has a vested interest in ensuring people don't think he was motivated as a spy, but as his duty as a US citizen. It would be easy for folks to spin thinks if he got into the whole spy thing.

Snowden is a whistle blower with the intention to alert the American people. He is not a spy with an intention to aide our enemies. I'm not sure how anyone following his actions could come to any other conclusion.

[alcibiades_mystery]

37. Putin's surveillance state is for the good of the Russian people

It's different!

[KittyWampus]

14. there is a real possibility that Snowden is a Russian spy or an unwitting tool

[Luminous Animal]

25. According to neo-con Michael Weiss, the author cited in the OP. Slurp it up and spit it out.

The neo-cons rule our world.

[MaggieD]

32. I don't think so

I've seen no evidence of that. No excuse for the mass surveillance. I'm grateful to him.

[Aerows]

50. There's a very real possibility

that when people claim that the Bolivian President's plane was grounded due to fuel gauge problems, as was heartily suggested is as false then as it is now.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458

I'm not certain what the origin of the absolute hate you and others have for Snowden has as its genesis, but it isn't a foundation in truth-telling.

Would you like to revisit that the Bolivian President's plane was NOT grounded because the US thought Snowden was on the plane, or are you going to tell everyone that believed it was dumb back in 2013 is still wrong in 2015?

[bemildred]

60. He cleaned their clock, stole their cookies, in public, that's why.

When you wallow in infantile power fantasies and some nerd comes along and cleans your clock in public, goes all over the media to tell his story, and ends up hiding out with the current enemy state, you do get pissed, you are that sort of person.

[frylock]

75. this post is useless without maps

[Aerows]

82. LMFAO! n/t

[treestar]

83. nobody hates him

there's this effort to gin up sympathy for him. People here don't like what he did, or don't think he should get all that lionization. I think he ought to face his charges. That doesn't have to mean I hate him.

[JDPriestly]

54. If he were, Putin would have gloated over that fact.

That is how we can be certain that your thinking is wrong. Snowden is not and was not a Russian spy or an unwitting tool. Snowden is and was a whistle-blower on illegal activity by the NSA, activity that violates your and my basic rights pursuant to the Bill of Rights in our Constitution. Snowden also pointed out that the NSA was violating the the separation of powers that is the principle underlying our Constitution.

[bemildred]

61. Yes, Putin likes to rub it in. nt

[JDPriestly]

72. Putin is secretive, but I don't think he could resist bragging about having acquired Snowden as

a friend and asset. And Snowden's question to Putin certainly put Putin on notice that Snowden does not buy any claim by Russia that it does not actively snoop on its citizens. Remember. Snowden is a brilliant fellow.

[bemildred]

81. I don't know about that, but I've been reading what he says for a while now,

and I am firmly of the opinion that he likes to rub it in, based of some comments he has made like "It is too bad when you lose, but oh well you have to move on" or something like that, after the Debaltseve debacle.

He has a very dry sense of humor, which I recognize, if you see ...

[Major Hogwash]

71. You are totally wrong on every single point you tried to make here.

And it is becoming increasingly clear that you know very little about espionage.

[Luminous Animal]

2. Really dude. Michael Weiss. A columnist for neo-conservative Weekly Standard. Would you take that

hack's phone call?

[Blue_Tires]

6. But Soldatov's reputation as a dissident and investigative journalist is gold...

So gold that Snowden himself has praised him...Funny that he doesn't think enough of him to grant an interview...

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/18/vladimir-putin-surveillance-us-leaders-snowden

[Luminous Animal]

11. You really must think we are stupid.

[Aerows]

49. I'm guessing they don't remember 2013

when it was all the rage to claim that the Bolivian President's plane was landed due to fuel gauge problems.

Luckily, I'm here to remind them of the things they thought people were stupid enough to believe.

I mean, seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

Oh, my brain fell out, and I don't remember any of that episode.



Time to claim that emoticon back.

[Cha]

15. It is Gold! Thank you so much for this interview.. it's priceless!

[elias49]

23. I know! A Bill Kristol work-mate.

Please.

[Cha]

9. The point of the article is that he's being "exploited".. from your link, TY, BT

"He’s clearly being exploited—after all, many repressive measures on the Internet in Russia were presented to Russians as a response to Snowden’s revelations. For instance, the legislation to relocate the servers of global platforms to Russia by September of this year, to make them available for the Russian secret services, was presented as a measure to assure the security of Russian citizens’ personal data."

By Putin.

another snip//

"What I find interesting about this is that in December of 2014 Snowden, when asked about his security situation at the Amnesty International event, said, “My security’s great. I live a fairly normal life, I ride the Moscow underground when I go about day to day.”

Thus he’s withdrawn the only plausible reason for why he’s not transparent here in Russia. So what’s the reason to be so secretive? There is some problem with logic here. For instance, I would understand if he says, “Look, I cannot comment on Russian surveillance, this is not my war.” Instead, he asked his question about Russian surveillance. And he is not transparent. I just don’t get it

[Luminous Animal]

12. So glad you appreciate the opinion of a neo-con. A journalist who writes for the Weekly Standard.

Very interesting. Really, Cha, you are an intelligent person… spend a moment or two researching Michael Weiss. He is everything you are against your entire Democratic life. Without a doubt, he'll be writing about Hillary, and it will be disgusting and I'll be sure to point that out to every person who has recommended this post.

It really is upsetting that the rightist of the right wing is cited on this board and recced as well.

[Cha]

13. Yeah yeah yeah.. we get it. You don't like the revelations so you get busy whining about

his interview with Andrei Soldatov.

[Luminous Animal]

18. Damn right I don't like "revelations" from neo-cons. Revelations from neo-cons have contributed

to 1-2 million deaths of Iraqi citizens. FOR NO FUCKING GOOD REASON.

Apparently, you trust Michael Weiss in regards to Snowden.

Yep. No clue there at all. Just a well respected honest journalist doing his honest journalist job. According to you.

[riderinthestorm]

16. It's just that this is convenient for a headline grabbing OP about Snowden

and entirely devoid of truth or substance.

See Blue Tires other most recent OP trying to desperately gin up faux poutrage about Snowden.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026490544

The desperation is reaching crazy levels. All innuendo, no facts. Poor things. It's driving them to post stupid shit.

[Luminous Animal]

20. Yep. And he regularly states, I brought this up a year ago, (or months ago) but when you ask

him to provide the evidence that he brought up anything AT ALL related to his current Snowden bashing post... keerikits.

[riderinthestorm]

38. Yup. I actually feel bad for those who hate Snowden/Greenwald

They are constantly contradicted yet wail about how they arent.

Its sad and pathetic and isn't swaying anyone.

Im not going to reply here anymore. I won't be complicit in bumping such ridiculousness.

[JDPriestly]

56. They just don't know what they are talking about.

Some of them aren't very bright. Sorry to be such an intellectual snob, but it's the truth. They have never been anywhere, haven't read much, don't understand the Constitution, and don't like questioning. It's their fate. They can't help it. I try to be patient and understanding and explain things, but sometimes it is so difficult.

You'd think that they would notice that Snowden has been in Russia or wherever he is for a long time now and the world really hasn't fallen apart. No great secrets have been used against us. We are just more aware of the fact that our government is not our friend or at least that the NSA is not our friend and that we are all suspects all the time. Also, Obama claims that he has changed the surveillance process so that a warrant will be issued to actually acquire our records. I suspect that is not true, that he has not changed a thing. But at least I think there was some acknowledgment on the part of the government that the NSA's methods of capturing so much information on utterly law-abiding people was a violation of the Fourth Amendment and other provisions of our Bill of Rights. So Snowden has accomplished a lot.

[neverforget]

43. And he's been doing it for 2 years!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6491242

[Scootaloo]

27. I think you give Cha way too much credit n/t

[Luminous Animal]

29. I like Cha.I enjoy her passion.

[Scootaloo]

31. Alright n/t

[MattSh]

41. Having passion doesn't mean someone is correct though...

Just saying.

[Luminous Animal]

42. I know that that. Cha is a good egg on many things. We disagree on some things and, for me,

that is okay.

[treestar]

46. Russian surveillance is "not his war."

very strange. He cares so much about transparency. So he should be condemning Russia's lack thereof too.

[elias49]

24. Someone has an unhealthy obsession... nt

[DisgustipatedinCA]

78. Right?

Every other day, BT is starting a new thread along the lines of "I've got that bastard this time", and it's always, ALWAYS some minor little thing that no one else gives a damn about. Now we know he's a traitor because he won't speak with the Geraldo Rivera of Russia or whatever. Note that there's no real source material excerpted--just one guy talking about how he couldn't get access to Snowden or Greenwald.

[Major Hogwash]

39. Eddie's attorney, Ben Wizner, is acting even stranger.

Since this Russian reporter was in New York and was willing to talk to Wizner, an ACLU attorney.
I think that Wizner knows that Snowden has spilled his guts to the Russians already, which is why he is afraid of Soldatov.

[Aerows]

48. And a handful asserted

that the reason the Bolivian President's plane was grounded was due to "fuel gauge problems".

It had *absolutely* nothing to do with the US wanting to grab Snowden at the first opportunity.

Played.

It tickles the shit out of me how you were played by someone you think so low of.



When you play the Game of Thrones, gentlemen and ladies.

[Major Hogwash]

70. I don't know what you are talking about.

I don't even know why you mentioned Game of Thrones.

[Aerows]

47. Blue_Tires

I like you, I like Randome and I like MsAnthrope, but you three are on a damn mission at this point to deride, degrade and detest Edward Snowden.

I understand your points, but the fact is that many of the things that you three have claimed as ludicrous are TRUE. I realize that you have a blazing, infinite hate for him and his "crimes", but maybe you should give it a fucking rest, already.

You yourself posted the little gem that the US was the one that grounded the Bolivian Presidents plane because there was the idea that Snowden was on it - which everyone back in 2013 denied. Do I have to dredge up that classic thread again?

I think I will.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023164458



One of the best threads ever on DU3.

And every single person that said it was lunacy ... has been proven absolutely right.

[neverforget]

62. that thread is classic!

[Marr]

86. +1

[merrily]

52. Said it before and I'll say it again. I am glad I learned what was going on.

For me, all else is

a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing.

Y'all throw all the shade on Greenwald and Snowden you want. None of the accusations, insinuations and implications about them, tin foil hat or not, hurt my feelings. They are adults. They did they what they did for whatever reasons they did them. They are not my brothers or my sons. I didn't pay taxes to them to protect my interests and my rights.

Moreover, who lines up for and against Snowden and Greenwald could not be more obvious or more consistent with positions on every issue. It's a fucking joke.

Nothing anyone says about Snowden and/or Greenwald, however, is going to alter one tiny iota the fact that the 4th amendment was secretly erased from the Bill of Rights by people to whom I did pay taxes to protect my rights and my interests. And, barring some disaster and the creek don't rise, the government is going to be around one hell of a lot longer than Greenwald or Snowden.

IMO, that is the issue on which we all should be laser focused, not how pure or how black the hearts of two private, mortal citizens are. And if the motives of Snowden and Greenwald mean more to anyone than that issue, it simply could not possibly be more obvious why. No clue who y'all think you're fooling or about to convince.

[Aerows]

55. Snowden is probably

about to unleash another bombshell and they want to get their discrediting in early.

They discredit themselves with this thread.

It's kind of hilarious when you think about it. No No No it didn't happen that way, oh wait it happened that way after all, and no no no not because of the reasons you think, but yes yes yes for the reasons we think until they have to go ...

No no no, it didn't happen that way, it happened this way.

It's like watching a dog chase its tail.

[merrily]

58. When you get right down to it,

has DU ever really let up?

It's like watching a dog chase its tail.

Tires them out so they can sleep better. Or are they trying to tire us out, so we sleep better?

I, mean, Snowden did what he did over two years ago.

When the discussion needle moves sharply and drastically, I might look more at where it moved from than where it moved to.

For example, when the US government moved against Cliven Bundy after something like 20 frickin years, the discussion needle moved suddenly. I looked at what the headlines had been during the prior few weeks.

When you do something like that, you may see something interesting, you may not. But at least you didn't get your head jerked around mindlessly.

Where is that whole Bundy thing now, anyway?

[Dont call me Shirley]

74. +++++1,000,000,000

[Marr]

88. +1, lol-- no kidding.

It's that utterly predictable lineup that always make me laugh, too. How transparent can you get.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

63. Doesn't sound strange at all to me.

Sounds like he doesn't particularly trust Russian media or reporters who have reason to suck up to the Russian government to keep their ability to report from Russia.

[arely staircase]

64. Putin owns Snowden nt

[randome]

65. After John Oliver's interview, Snowden may be even more selective with interviews from now on.

It was strange, though, that Oliver was mostly on his side but I don't think Snowden appreciated it when he did something few journalists are willing to do these days -be objective.

When Oliver said he should own up to the fact that there was a fuck-up that revealed intelligence secrets, Snowden seemed gobsmacked. He may have seen Oliver's interview as an 'ambush' when it was anything but that.

And Snowden showed up more than an hour late for the interview. It's just supposition on my part but I wonder if paranoia plays into that and if it will only get worse as time goes on.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

[DisgustipatedinCA]

79. ah yes, the discredited Snowden was Rattled line.

The thing is, this discredited claim was made about a video that everyone has access to. So while the fixer crew was able to lie to a few people who didn't watch the video, most everyone who did came away wondering what the hell the anti-Snowden people were talking about. You guys hate him with every little fiber of your beings, so much so that you don't see how ridiculous some of the accusations start to look after awhile. You're too invested in seeing him go down, and this results in behaviors many don't even realize they're displaying. But please do keep putting forth more creative theories.

[randome]

80. Just calling it like I see it.

Everything Snowden/Greenwald have published has avoided asking the question whether the NSA's capabilities are used against American citizens. The articles are mostly bait-and-switch with a hyperbolic headline but then nothing that indicates the NSA is doing anything but what they are supposed to do -monitor foreign communications.

If Snowden finally produced a 'smoking gun' of some sort to indicate deliberate malfeasance, I would have no problem supporting him.

But he hasn't. And after 2 years, it looks like he never will.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

[Hell Hath No Fury]

69. ...

[leveymg]

76. This is supposed to be evidence that Snowden is strange? How strange. n/t

[Marr]

87. This smear campaign ran out credibility so long ago.

You're doing yourselves more harm than your target at this point. Seriously... for your own sake... just stop.