many here have stated they will not vote for Hillary

[tiredtoo]

While i prefer a more progressive candidate, Bernie Sanders. Should the prognosticators be correct and Hillary is the candidate. She will get my vote.
This link is just one of the reasons.....
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/reality-hillary-clinton-liberals-need-face/

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I would not say "many" here have stated that. I would say a "few" have stated that.

They just speak more loudly than others at times and are amplified by posts such as yours.

Sleep well.

[calimary]

52. Welcome to DU, singintheblues!

Glad you're here! I'm a Hillary supporter from way back. However, I voted for Barack Obama because, all other things being pretty much equal, he opposed the war and she didn't. Nevertheless, this time around, there's nobody better who's actually running, AND/OR who has a realistic chance of winning.

Besides, I vote for Supreme Court pickers.

And it'll be a frozen day in Hell when I ever even consider voting CON. The "best" (and I used that word advisedly here) they've got can't beat her on her worst day.

[NYC_SKP]

3. So, I should vote for a center-right candidate out of fear of SCOTUS. No thank you.

I don't have kids, and I'm not very young.

I'm voting for a progressive, not for a Clinton, because it's my vote to use as I wish.

If you get a Republican in the white house, it's the fault of people who support Clinton, who I think will lose this for us easily.

[TerrapinFlyer]

7. yawn...

You think the 100+ Hillary haters here on DU are going to make a difference?

TIME FOR A SLAP FROM REALITY.

[jwirr]

13. You know every time the Hillary supporters call us haters because we want to know more about

her plans and/or support another candidate in the primary you are turning us further from any interest in her.

[TerrapinFlyer]

14. Well today is the first day... maybe you should give her a few days to answer your questions.

Or should she call you personally tonight and answer all your "questions"?

[jwirr]

20. I have not said much of anything about her - I was talking about the insulting supporters who do

not think we have a right to our own candidate. Like you.

[Thinkingabout]

21. And we never hear about the candidates you support or where they are on issues such

as security and defense. There are many issues and if you support your candidate then do so, spending your time trashing Hillary will never promote your candidate.

[jwirr]

25. I DO NOT trash Hillary. And I assume that you have heard about Bernie Sanders? I would like to

get treated like I am a member of this board just like all of you are. I am not a hater and that is what I am objecting to.

In fact if you would like I can actually tell you what I like about Hillary. That does not mean that I do not want more clarification on her stands on such things as TPP.

[Thinkingabout]

27. I think I read this in your post

You know every time the Hillary supporters call us haters because we want to know more.....

Sounds like you are calling "us" haters.

[jwirr]

29. You are reading a lot into that. I am objecting to being called haters. That is all I am saying. Are

you saying that you are all so very polite and loving? Maybe you need to read this thread again. In the past I have actually defended Hillary on this board when someone is wrong about her but I am not sure that I will be visiting any more "Hillary" sites. I'll get the answers to the questions I have somewhere else where I will not be insulted.

And if you think I am the only one who feels this way think again.

[Thinkingabout]

49. Sorry, it was plain to me, I don't think I would refer to "us haters" if I did not

want someone to think I was.

[davidpdx]

31. For those that do, if the shoe fits................

[840high]

50. Posts like yours drive me

even further from Hillary.

[TerrapinFlyer]

64. Further to where? towards Ted Cruz? What direction are you going?

You do realize that Hillary is NOT my first choice.

But I am not going to abandon her if she wins the primary. And right now, no other candidate is even close.

Maybe those who don't agree with Hillary should be championing and progressive candidate as her VP. That would bring her more to the Left. But when I hear people saying they would "never vote for her"... I just have to chuckle.

[jeff47]

74. They don't have to vote for Ted Cruz to cost the Democratic nominee the election

They just have to not vote. And not work on GOTV efforts. In other words, repeat 2014. Or 2010. Or 2004. Or 2000.

Maybe those who don't agree with Hillary should be championing and progressive candidate as her VP

Maybe those claiming Clinton is a fantastic candidate should be discussing what she has done, in order to address progressive dislike. Where's the bills to expand abortion access while she was Senator? How has she claimed to fix the harm caused by free trade agreements while simultaneously supporting the TPP? And so on.

If you want to sell a candidate, you have to sell that candidate. You can't just hide behind Republican boogeymen. Spend your time talking about what makes Clinton a good candidate, instead of what makes Republicans bad candidates.

Because if all you got is "Republican Bad!", then we're heading for a repeat of those years I listed above.

[Warpy]

12. I think you're right that she'll be easy for them to defeat.

However, I will vote for her if she's the nominee.

Back to back "firsts" are just not a sound idea.

[msongs]

34. so you didnt vote for the center-right Obama. wow nt

[NYC_SKP]

37. I voted for Obama against some sell-out self-abosorbed inevitable opponent, yes I did.

And Obama hasn't been center right. He's been pretty center and been way further left than Clinton would have been.

We'd probably be in another war and watching more jobs float overseas had she won.

I loves me some Obama and Michelle.

[SidDithers]

39. Please tell us loudly and often how you won't vote for her...

after she's the nominee.

Sid

[NYC_SKP]

40. You know I will, Sid.

But after she's a nominee the rules change around here.

It's complicated, don't try to figure it out, I know you have a lot of other things to do.

[SidDithers]

46. I doubt you will...

I think if Hillary is the nominee, you and your cohort will go quiet about about your refusal to vote for her.

Posting privileges before principles.

Sid

[tkmorris]

53. You aint gonna vote for her either

So your outrage rings very fucking hollow Sid.

[SidDithers]

59. And some more of the cohort checks in...

The anti-Hillary posters are all brash and bluster until there are consequences for their rhetoric.

Then they'll go quiet so as not to run afoul of the TOS. They'll obfuscate, and prevaricate, and dodge, and twist themselves into pretzels trying to maintain their image, without coming out and saying what they truly believe.

Posting privileges before principles.

Sid

[bl968]

42. I simply won't vote

If she is the nominee I simply will not vote. That's the thing the democratic party needs to understand and they damn well better fear. It's not cause she's a woman it's because I feel she will be a right of center candidate.

The lesser of two evils, is still evil.

[840high]

51. Thank you. Agree.

[cstanleytech]

56. Oh the wonderful irony with your post.

"If she is the nominee I simply will not vote."

"The lesser of two evils, is still evil."

[TerrapinFlyer]

4. Same here, Bernie Sanders would be my preferred candidate...

But OF COURSE I would vote for Hillary over ANY Rethug.

[freshwest]

69. He's mine, too, but I am seeing more to like in any Democratic candidate than any GOP. Or the

Last edited Mon Apr 13, 2015, 11:13 AM - Edit history (1)

non voting brigade who disrespect all of those who need those votes - who do have children, parents, and friends of all kinds who need a Democrat for the sake of staying alive. Those who are far beyond us in means, well, we just don't matter, I guess.

We do to Bernie and the Democratic Party platform and in our local cities and states. There's a huge difference living in blue states in this country, where we are respected as members of the community. And the red states, we are told to just go FOAD.

People are dying right now because of it. Those who stand aloof don't face that reality. It's pretty sad to be abandoned by those who purport to speak for social justice yet think we can wait for perfection. Our lives are being lived or lost in the now, not in some future utopia.

Those without children and relatives or friends who will not survive, don't care about us. Just being a Democrat, one would think they did. This is a thing I have learned about DU, that there is a definite divide between those with needs and those with wants that don't need anything.

What an enviable position, to be able to stand by and watch what a hundred years or more of progressives worked and died to create, and allow it to be destroyed from a comfortable distance.

[blkmusclmachine]

5. Hmmm...

[ ] GOP,
[ ] GOP-lite,
or
[ ] Independent

[PowerToThePeople]

6. good for you.

I choose not to.

[jwirr]

8. Mine also but not in the primary unless she is more forthcoming about her plans.

[upaloopa]

9. Why do we need to know they are not going to vote for Hillary?

I don't give a fuck why they won't vote for her. They should go somewhere else. If there is a another candidate then that is different.

[jeff47]

30. We have to build the enemies list, so we know who to attack if she doesn't win.

See: Gore vs Nader.

[MiniMe]

10. While she is not my choice candidate, the democratic candidate whoever he or she is will get my vote

[oldandhappy]

11. 18 months plus.

I doubt these opinions today will last. Face with a president cuz, one hopes a little hillary will be OK.

[Scootaloo]

15. if Clinton offers something new and different from 2008, when I also didn't vote for her...

I'll reconsider.

If she doesn't, I presume she will lose the nomination again. No big deal to me.

[99Forever]

16. You vote for who you want.

I will vote for who I want. Thats how it works.

[betterdemsonly]

17. Many dems that won't vote for Hillary in this race will vote

for progressives Democrats in other races. I would advise them against saying outright they won't vote for her here. That unfortunately is bannable and i don't want us to lose more progressive posters. Hillary's center-rightists are organized and know how far to push it. I think many of them do like republicans of the neocon variety like McCain, and have voted for them, but they know not to say it outright. Be smart people.

[Savannahmann]

18. That propaganda has been posted, and rejected.

The reason is that we won't get a Liberal on the Court. There is a slim chance of taking the Senate back. With the high probability that the Republicans hold the Senate, the best we can hope for is another Kennedy, which by the way is one of the four who voted to gut Obamacare.

No way you get anything left of a moderate through the Senate. Sad but true man, face the reality.

[betterdemsonly]

19. Interesting point. n/t

[customerserviceguy]

22. Don't worry

We'll all get nicely in line in 19 months, because it will be obvious that Paul, Walker, Bush, or whoever is the top clown out of the car will be much worse.

[drray23]

23. so what's the rule again ?

After the primary is over, we must support the nominee or get booted from du ? Is it not the tos ?
So we only have to endure another year of temper tantrum.

People here who don't like Hillary to be the nominee then work to get somebody else to beat her. Barack Obama was that person, maybe another one will emerge. I doubt it, he is the kind of leader you only see acouple times per century.

For me it is clear. I will also vote for the nominee instead of abstaining. I don't want the gop to win.

[chillfactor]

24. typical of we Democrats...

we destroy are own and then wonder why we lose elections and why our party is in shambles...guess Hillary haters prefer a Republican president....

[Journeyman]

26. The issue of "which candidate" is totally irrelevant to me. By the time California votes June 7. . .

17 primaries will have already been held in 40 states. The decision will have been made long before the parade makes it here.

The decision will have been made for me by the good people in the likes of places such as Iowa, Utah, South & North Carolina, Nevada, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Ohio, Puerto Rico, Florida, Missouri, Arizona, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Arkansas.

Yeah. Like I have a voice in the decision. Totally worthless process so far as I'm concerned.

So really, the decision has fuck all to do with me and my beliefs. Unless I want to give money. Which places me in the odd position of looking at Citizens United with a slightly jaundiced view -- adamantly opposed to the concept, regrettably convinced it's the sole option open for people in this State to have an impact.

Tell me that doesn't suck hind wind.


* * *


So the Democratic Primary process bypasses ME. Regardless the candidate, the process itself is stacked against us here in the "Golden State."

Instead of the present, flawed process, where people in Iowa of all places have a disproportionate influence on who leaves the race early and who's seen as a "frontrunner," I favor dividing the nation into 6 electoral districts instead and the choice of which district should vote first would rotate among them, so every 24 years each of us would have an opportunity to vote first in the Presidential primary.

All states in an electoral district would have their primaries on the same day. This way, campaigns would focus on a select geographic region -- costs would be lower, there wouldn't be as much travel required, and the media buys would be more focused as well, since neighboring states would be addressed at the same time.

There'd be the added benefit that citizens of each district could expect (indeed, demand) that politicians address the regional issues of their concern as well as the national issues, thereby denying the candidates the opportunity to hide behind national platitudes instead of answering specific questions important to a select electorate.

If the primaries were held every 3 weeks, the primary season could be over in some 3 to 4 months, which might help focus every voter's attention earlier in the process.

But it'll probably never happen. Too many vested interests with too much at stake in the present, crippled system.

[tularetom]

28. She sucks, she's terrible, she has creepy friends but I might vote for her

God knows, I've voted for crappy candidates before. I've even voted for a crappy candidate named Clinton before.

I'd love to have a more attractive alternative, but I could be convinced that Clinton would be acceptable.

But she won't do it with glossy, overproduced media spectaculars, and she won't do it by spouting platitudes and generalities. I want to hear what she proposes to do and I want to hear it without weasel words like what the definition of is is.

As much as I disliked Bill Clinton, he was able to be convincing without saying anything he could be pinned down on. I like Obama a lot better, but he's the same way. Hillary Clinton just doesn't have that gift. She comes across as insincere and unconfident and it makes it hard to buy anything she says.

She'll have to sell me on herself. I'm skeptical, but isn't that the way it should be?

[Smarmie Doofus]

32. Hey. Let's fool 'em then.

>>>In fact, Republicans are hoping that’s exactly what many liberals and independents will do.>>>>>

Let's nominate a progressive!

[roamer65]

33. This is the only reason I will vote for her if she's the nominee.

Right wing morons hate her so damn much, I hafta help get her in office just to stick it to them.

In other words, more payback for Bu$h.

Problem for us is that she is a very polarizing candidate to run in 2016.

[The_Casual_Observer]

35. Just heard a Bernie Sanders speech on Pacifica, He's all barstool banter.

He isn't prepared to do shit.

[SoapBox]

43. As much as I do like him...he is not electable.

(Nor is Warrens)

[Art_from_Ark]

63. Exactly how is Hillary "electable" and Warren isn't?

[MFM008]

36. I vote for the nominee

period.

[Hulk]

38. NOT a huge Clinton dynasty supporter...

But I would vote for the devil before I sat home or voted for a gop clown. Get serious folks. Hillary has a lot to like and perhaps a lot to dislike. Please tell me what a republican has to like. I'm dying to hear it.

We keep getting teabagger clowns in Congress because people DON'T VOTE! They either don't give a rat's behind or they think there isn't any difference in the gop'ers and the D's. That's absolute bull shit. That's why we have the Congress we have today.

Wake up. Like her or not; if it comes down to Hillary or the gop clown, are you seriously thinking it's wise to NOT vote?

[calimary]

55. Hear! Hear!

[SoapBox]

41. Our house hopes to gawd that someone else runs...

If she is the eventual nominee, we would most likely hold our nose and vote for her...to try and keep a PukeBagger out of the White House.

So a vote would be a vote but not happy votes.

And I will continue to stand in belief that when it comes to those that cast ballots, the majority will not elect her as President...too much baggage and I don't believe America will yet elect a woman as President.

[elzenmahn]

44. I've said this on another post...

..and I'll say it again here:

Job one is to KICK THE GOD-DAMNED REPUBLICANS OUT OF POWER and KEEP THEM OUT.

If HRC represents the best chance to accomplish this, and assuming she wins the nomination, then yes, I'll vote for her.

We can deal with the Third Wayers and DINOs later, once the Dems retain the WH and gain control of both houses. But right now, a Dem victory in the mode of a 1964 Repub DESTRUCTION would be in order.

GOTV!

[whereisjustice]

45. If Hillary is in the general, a lot of people will probably vote. But not for her.

[NET]

47. She will make a great President

[cstanleytech]

57. An etch a sketch would make a great president compared to just about any of the republicans.

[NET]

58. Agree but Hillary even with all her faults isn't

the bad guy like some people are making her out to be on this site.

She is a Democrat through and through and will fight for the middle class and poor in this country.

[Geronimoe]

48. Green Party

If Hillary is all Dems can provide, I'll vote Green Party.

Hill & Bill were a team in the 90's. As Bill used to say, you got two for one. They brought us NAFTA and ended Glass-Steagall that lead to the world economic meltdown and destruction of American jobs and wages. Also they gave China most favored trading status, shutting down US plants with America workers spending their last days of employment crating up machinery to ship to China.

After this, one would think the Clintons would have the decency to take their Wall Street payoff and retire. But no, they are back in our faces wanting even more for the wild speculators and predators on Wall Street.

Only the one percenters are better off after the Bush and Clinton presidencies. Enough already. Wake up Americans.

[840high]

54. I did wake up. Thank you.

[davidn3600]

60. I'll just say this as it is still early....

2016 may be the first time I may feel forced to vote for someone I don't support. In 2000, 2004, 2008, and 2012 I fully supported the Democrat candidate. I gave money. I helped campaign. I tried to convince others to vote. I felt good coming out of the polling place and proud to be American.

But I will say this right now...unless something in my perception of Hillary radically changes, she will not get a single cent from me. She's rich. And she'll have plenty of rich donors. She doesn't need my money. So every time the DNC sends me a letter asking me to donate money to her campaign, it goes in the trash. Every phone call I get asking for money, I will respond with, "tell her to call Wall Street."

I'm disgusted at the fact that we call ourselves a democracy but each election seems to have fewer choices. Now in 2016, our choice is either the Clinton family dynasty or the Republican clown show. That's democracy? Seriously? How the fuck is that choice the best leaders America has to offer? I just can't believe this is how low this country has gotten politically. And I am supposed to be motivated for this? My god...Im tempted to just tune out next fall and just watch my sports.

But I have to remind myself that it is early. And I hope some other Democrat jumps in. But with the way she's going to gobble up the money, I doubt there will be any serious competition...which will only piss me off further because then it looks like the nomination is being given to her.

[clg311]

61. I don't vote for warmongers.

Period.

[TerrapinFlyer]

66. Not really sure how you define "warmonger".

I would think most Dems would not vote for a "warmonger", but let's define that.. because most likely the last 20 Presidents might be considered a warmonger by your definition.

Can you name one Pacifist President?

[Kelvin Mace]

62. The argument is old

and irrelevant. The Dems lost the SCOTUS when they refused to filibuster Thomas and allowed him to take Thurdgood Marhsall's seat. Without Thomas, Gore would have won the White House, 9/11 would probably have never happened and we would have had a very different last 15 years.

Citizens United was game, set and match to the conservatives.

Also, HRC has declared her gushing admiration for Henry Kissinger, and some lines can never be uncrossed.

The Vichy Dem leadership have made their bed and must now lie in it.

[Warren DeMontague]

65. 575 days.

[Font Size=6] 575 days [/font] until the 2016 election.

Might I suggest waiting until that number is a bit smaller, before worrying about telling people they need to vote for the party's candidate in the general?

Just a thought.

[MoonchildCA]

67. I will not vote for her in the primary,

But I will in the general, if it comes down to that.
I will always vote for the least far right candidate possible.

[Sparhawk60]

70. Same Here.....

I don't see my self voting for her in the primary, but I will move heaven and earth to vote for her in the General election.

[Beacool]

68. I'm not a purist and live in the real world.

I don't expect to agree 100% with any candidate. I like, respect and admire Hillary. She's a fine person. I will vote in 2016 for the Democratic nominee, whether it be Hillary or someone else, because I'll be damned if I throw my vote away on some third party candidate who doesn't have a chance in hell of becoming president and by doing so enable a Republican turd to take over the WH. I think that's just common sense.

Sometimes this place is just too nutty for words.

[beachbum bob]

71. those who will not support a democratic nominee are traitors to democrats, liberals and progressives

same mentality of Nader supporters gave america 8 years of Bush and I hold those voters way more responsible for killing and destruction of America under bush-cheney than the voters who voted for bush.......

[LWolf]

72. That's right.

I won't be voting for Hillary.

In my primary, which is the only race she is currently running. I've got 15 months and 12 days before I'd have to consider being forced to hold my nose in a GE, should she win the Democratic Party's nomination.

Until that time, she's off the table.

[tiredtoo]

73. A good mix of opinions and thoughts here

Personally, i think Hillary is further left than many think. She did try to get national health care during Bill's presidency. She is however pragmatic enough to know you must have some support from Wall Street and big money in the current environment if you expect to be a serious contender for the office.
Support from big money is another story but it is real.