Stanford just went tuition-free for family incomes under $125K and total assets under $300K,

[pnwmom]

excluding some retirement funds.

Princeton did something similar a while back. All the heavily endowed schools should, IMO.

http://www.vox.com/2015/4/1/8328091/stanford-tuition-financial-aid

If a student's parents make less than $125,000 per year, and if they have assets of less than $300,000, excluding retirement accounts, the parents won't be expected to pay anything toward their children's Stanford tuition. Families with incomes lower than $65,000 won't have to contribute to room and board, either.

Students themselves will have to pay up to $5,000 each year from summer earnings, savings, and part-time work. There's no rule that parents can't cover their students' required contribution.

Stanford is much more generous toward middle-class and upper-middle class students than the federal government is. Most students who get subsidized loans and federal Pell Grants come from families making less than $60,000 per year. But it also enrolls an outsize proportion of wealthy students. In 2010, the university's director of financial aid said the median family income at Stanford was around $125,000.

On the other hand, only 14 percent of entering freshmen got federal Pell Grants in 2012, which typically go to students from families making less than $50,000 per year. Nationally, 41 percent of undergrads received Pell Grants.

[drray23]

1. i am proud of my alma mater

This is great. We need to give opportunities to bright young kids who could not afford it otherwise. I wish higher ed was free for all like in europe.

[BrotherIvan]

4. Mine too

At the rate tuition was growing, there was no way a middle class family could afford it. I am very surprised by this. I don't think it's a great school for undergrads, but no tuition makes it much better.

[appalachiablue]

2. Fantastic, good for Stanford & CA. This is exactly what the US needs to do, the way we used to!

And not that long ago, within my lifetime, my parents & grandparents. This step brings college education more in line with Europe where the young are invested in for the future and welfare of all. Bravo- (Cutting Pell grant funding is currently part of the GOP budget).

[ND-Dem]

3. and how many of those kind of students will actually get admitted?

what percent of the freshman class?

[Hoyt]

10. A bunch. Stanford deserves a lot of praise.

[ND-Dem]

13. evidence?

[ND-Dem]

25. 16% of all students there get Pell Grants, the best available measure of % of low-income

students. That's about 4% for each class.

Not "a bunch".

California public universities enroll a lot more. Try 1/3 to 40% of their students.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools

[stone space]

33. Pell Grants aren't available to everybody. (nt)

[ND-Dem]

36. no, they're for folks from low-income households.

[stone space]

47. Pell grants and Federal Student Loans are not available to all low income students.

Student grants and loans are a privilege.

[ND-Dem]

55. no, you have to be under the income limit.

How much money can I get?

Amounts can change yearly. The maximum Federal Pell Grant award is $5,730 for the 2014–15 award year (July 1, 2014, to June 30, 2015). For the 2015–16 award year (July 1, 2015, to June 30, 2016), the maximum award will be $5,775.

The amount you get, though, will depend on

your financial need,
your cost of attendance,
your status as a full-time or part-time student, and
your plans to attend school for a full academic year or less.

You may not receive Federal Pell Grant funds from more than one school at a time.

Effective on July 1, 2012, you can receive the Federal Pell Grant for no more than 12 semesters or the equivalent (roughly six years). You’ll receive a notice if you’re getting close to your limit. If you have any questions, contact your financial aid office.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/types/grants-scholarships/pell

[stone space]

57. That only applies if you have the privilege. (nt)

[ND-Dem]

58. what privilege is that?

[stone space]

59. The privilege of being allowed access to student grants and loans. (nt)

[tammywammy]

68. Who are you thinking of that can't access federal student aid? n/t

[ND-Dem]

92. First, Pell Grants aren't loans. Second, if you meet the requirements, you have access.

It's pretty straightforward, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[jwirr]

60. Isn't there also a rule regarding point averages? You have to keep your grades up.

[ND-Dem]

93. once you're accepted to an accredited school if you meet the income guidelines, basically

you have access to Pell grants.

If you don't keep your grades up and get kicked out or whatever, you no longer have access.

it's not that complicated.

Income is the biggest determinant.

https://studentaid.ed.gov/sites/default/files/federal-grant-programs.pdf

https://studentaid.ed.gov/eligibility

[Ace Rothstein]

41. 16% of all students doesn't equal out to 4% of each class.

It would be an average of 16% across each class.

[ND-Dem]

42. You're right.

[tkmorris]

43. That would be 16% on average of each class

You don't divide the percentage by the number of classes.

[ND-Dem]

44. you're right.

[KamaAina]

16. African American students feel more comfortable at Stanford than at Cal

because, thanks to Prop 209 and Stanford's generous aid packages, there are more of them at Stanford.

[ND-Dem]

26. Dunno about that but UCLA & UC Berkeley have a much larger percent of students getting

Pell Grants, the best available rubric of low family income.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools

And since blacks are one of the lowest-income groups, one would tend to believe the public unis had higher percentages of black students enrolled than Stanford does.

[KamaAina]

28. Here you go

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/oakland/why-black-students-are-avoiding-uc-berkeley/Content?oid=3756649

In 1997, the year after California voters approved Proposition 209, which prohibited the consideration of race or ethnicity in the operation of state institutions, black students made up 8 percent of UC Berkeley's freshmen enrollment — roughly the same percentage of African Americans living in the state. The following year, the percentage of black freshmen at Cal plummeted by more than half, and has hovered at or below 4 percent ever since. It averaged 3.6 percent in the five-year period between 2006 and 2010.

"On the campus website, more often than not, you'll often find a black face representing some program or other," said American Studies senior Salih Muhammad of Oakland. Muhammad is the former chair of Berkeley's Black Student Union and currently chair of the statewide UC African-American Coalition. "But when it comes to walking around the campus, those black faces are few and far between. Or, you'll see the 'I Support Berkeley' banners on campus, with all these black faces on them, but there are more black faces on the banners than there are in many of the classes."

In fact, some students in Cal's science and technology departments — where black students are least represented — said they can go an entire day without seeing another African American.

Yet despite widely held (and stereotype-driven) beliefs about why there are so few black students at Cal, the low enrollment numbers have nothing to do to with a lack of qualified African-American student applicants. Instead, many black students are deciding not to attend UC Berkeley. According to the latest figures available from the University of California, nearly 58 percent of black students who were admitted to Cal between 2006 and 2010 ultimately chose to go to college elsewhere. In all, 885 of the 1,539 African-American students admitted to UC Berkeley during that time period decided to turn down the university's acceptance letters.

[ND-Dem]

31. and i found some data about stanford's black undergrad enrollment; problem is, it seems to

contradict itself.

here says 7.5% AA undergrads

here (if you do the math) says 5.9% AA undergrads

http://ucomm.stanford.edu/cds/2014

either way, it does appear higher than the public unis strangely enough.

[pnwmom]

67. I think the public universities may have been more impacted by a court decision

against Affirmative Action -- if I'm recalling this correctly.

The private schools usually consider each application on a case by case basis, without using a formula of just grades and test scores, so they have more latitude to admit students of color.

[salin]

77. I believe you are correct.

I read that in the aftermath of Ward Connerly's proposition which effected the UC system, the CSU system and all public Us in California, that Stanford benefited per diversity in that students who were accepted both to Cal and Stanford - opted for Stanford due to the decrease in diversity that resulted at Cal. That was some years ago - so it may have evened out. But the privates are not bound in the same way.

[ND-Dem]

91. Wasn't a court case, it was a ballot measure.

[salin]

100. several years later were the court cases - the ones I recall involved the U of Michigan

two different cases IIRC, one per undergrad admissions, the other specific to the law school. My recollection (and I am not a lawyer and do not follow this closely, so I could be wrong) was that the impact was on state/public schools (since big part of funding source is public dollars.)

[ND-Dem]

90. Not exactly. Prop 209.

Proposition 209 (also known as the California Civil Rights Initiative or CCRI) is a California ballot proposition which, upon approval in November 1996, amended the state constitution to prohibit state governmental institutions from considering race, sex, or ethnicity, specifically in the areas of public employment, public contracting, and public education. Modeled on the Civil Rights Act of 1964, the California Civil Rights Initiative was authored by two California academics: Dr. Glynn Custred and Dr. Tom Wood. It was the first electoral test of affirmative action policies in America.

The political campaign to place the language of CCRI on the California ballot as a constitutional amendment was initiated by Joe Gelman (president of the Board of Civil Service Commissioners of the City of Los Angeles), Arnold Steinberg (a pollster and political strategist) and Dr. Larry Arnn (president of the Claremont Institute). It was later endorsed by Governor Pete Wilson and supported and funded by the California Civil Rights Initiative Campaign, led by University of California Regent Ward Connerly, a Wilson ally. A key co-chair of the Campaign was law professor Gail Heriot, who served as a member of the United States Commission on Civil Rights. The initiative was opposed by affirmative action advocates and traditional civil rights and feminist organizations on the left side of the political spectrum. Proposition 209 was voted into law on November 5, 1996, with 54 percent of the vote, and has withstood legal scrutiny ever since.

On December 3, 2012, California State Senator Edward Hernandez introduced California Senate Constitutional Amendment No.5 (SCA-5) in the State Senate.[1] This initiative proposed an amendment to the state constitution to remove provisions of California Proposition 209 related to public post-secondary education, to permit state universities to consider applicants' race, gender, color, ethnicity, or national origin in admission decisions. SCA-5 was passed by the California State Senate on January 30, 2014.[2] However, following resistance from various citizen groups, including Asian American groups, Senator Hernandez withdrew his measure from consideration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_209

Identity politics pits people against each other; nobody really gets ahead, you just change places on the slippery rope that capital holds.

[Brother Buzz]

23. If they are exceptional students and apply they would get admitted

The operative word is apply. Stanford cherry picks and leads the nation with a 5.7% acceptance rate. It's tough to get into.

Students from modest backgrounds with a GPA way north of 4.0 and an ACT score in the top 2% coupled with heavy extracurricular activities don't even bother to apply because Stanford has been ridiculously expensive. That's about to change and EVERYONE benefits.

[ND-Dem]

24. 16% of Stanford students get Pell Grants.

This table shows the percentage of undergraduates receiving federal Pell Grants for low-income students at top-ranked schools in 2015 Best Colleges rankings.

The proportion of students receiving Pell Grants, which are most often given to undergrads with family incomes under $20,000, isn't a perfect measure of an institution's efforts to achieve economic diversity: A college might enroll a large number of students just above the Pell cutoff, for instance, and percentages at public universities may reflect the wide variation from state to state in the number of qualified low-income students.

Still, many experts say that Pell figures are the best available gauge of how many low-income undergrads there are on a given campus. Pell Grant percentages were calculated using 2012-2013 school year data on the number of Pell Grant recipients at each school collected by the U.S.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities/economic-diversity-among-top-ranked-schools

[Brother Buzz]

34. There's still a 'Donut Hole' between Pell Grant recipients and being able to afford full tuition

Students from modest income households traditionally fall into that hole that Stanford is now filling.

[Man from Pickens]

6. which they can only do because they discriminate against the poor in admissions

"Stanford enrolls a high proportion of wealthy students, who pay higher tuition that helps subsidize lower-income peers."

How many students are going to be on the receiving end of this generous offer? Ten?

[KamaAina]

20. Often it's the other way around

poor families assume that they can't afford expensive schools like Stanford or the Ivies. But thanks to their large endowments, they are often able to offer better packages than even state schools.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026376936

[Ms. Toad]

7. Good, but not far enough.

They need to take another look at long-term income v. assets. We pinched pennies on a very modest income for most of our daughter's life and managed to build up a fairly sizeable nest egg - unfortunately most of it NOT in retirement accounts because the amount that can be put in a retirement account without the cooperation of an employer is pretty darn small.

But rather than live in a fancy house, with cable TV, smart phones, drive fancy car, and take fancy vacations, we live in a house that we could have bought outright for a year's salary or less, have never had cable TV, got smart phones last year when the first $0 - $10/month wifi-first plans became available, our youngest car is 12 years old, and we mostly vacation at home. The money we saved went into general savings (even though we always thought of it as being for college and retirement).

And - when our daughter went to a pricey college, we paid for being frugal by being denied any financial aid, in large part because we had assets that weren't tucked away in retirement accounts (which we didn't have the ability to create).

It just yanks my chain when financial aid plans punish those who take advantage of modest good fortune by making responsible choices that delay current gratification in favor of making sure there is enough money to keep us in our old age (even if it isn't formally in retirement accounts) and reward those of similar means who don't have a dime socked away for retirement (or were fortunate enough to have cooperative employers).

It just feels too much to me like the scheme they tried implement where I used to teach - in which employees would be encouraged to bank their unused sick days for any co-workers who ran out and became ill. There were truly some who needed spare sick days because of chronic illnesses, but the majority of the individuals I know who ended up running out their sick days and had to take unpaid leave viewed themselves as entitled to 1.25 days a month - and they took them, whether they were sick or not. On the other hand, I had 90+ sick days in the bank when I left after at 11 years, after spending 30 days in the hospital one year.

Grump. grump. grump. Just tired of getting the short end of the stick for being always being the responsible one.

[F4lconF16]

21. Your situation mirrors my parents almost exactly.

Thanks for the reminder.

[ND-Dem]

32. but you have the satisfaction of knowing you did the right thing, which is something at least;

and things turned out ok for you. which is also something.

[Ms. Toad]

38. Yes, and no.

It was a perfect storm of a lot of things that make me pretty resentful.

Bottom line is that currently chronic illness in both my spouse and daughter leave me as the sole provider (both financially and in terms of family responsibility), and I am now working at a job where it is possible to maintain my sanity - but earning about 40% of what I had been earning and putting in an average of 65 hours a week, year round. This season closer to 100/week.

The loss of what we anticipated spending on retirement stings a bit, coupled with currently working myself to death to avoid dipping into retirement savings even more, and the very real possibility that I will have to significantly change my retirement plans. And all of that started with the rude awakening of how much cheaper college would have been (college my daughter has still been unable to finish now 6 years out due to her chronic illness diagnosed her freshman year) if I'd just spent it all along.

NB: I do know how very lucky I am - generally. I have more than most. I'm just very tired at the moment - and this one more slap at people who do the right thing just hit a nerve.

[ND-Dem]

40. That sounds hard. Working 65-100 hours a week and it's still possible to maintain your sanity?

I'd say you're doing pretty damn well if you can do that.

I'm in a similar situation, but it doesn't seem as hard as yours in some ways. I couldn't do 65-100 a week and maintain sanity!

I was feeling overwhelmed and taken advantage of tonight at 25/week + various extra (unpaid) requirements -- plus people treating me like I'm a moron because I have brain damage & am working for minimum wage. (Seriously, treating me like I'm really stupid, some of them. I'm not stupid; I just have a bit of brain damage which shows up in odd ways every now & then. Nevertheless, people get an idea in their head and it's very hard to get them to let go of it.).

But I only have myself to look out for; lonely, but not so onerous.

I hope things improve for you and yours. Hang in there.

[Ms. Toad]

45. I love my job,

And get positive feedback from my students - and my supervisor nearly every day. I've been there through 3 cycles of the exam I'm preparing them for, and I have 6 handwritten thank-you notes pinned to my bulletin board & probably 50 thank-you e-mails I've forwarded to the folks who decide whether I get to stick around - and co-workers who don't see my work directly tell me they hear that student's love me. In 11 years of teaching at the high school level - I didn't receive anywhere near that level appreciation.

There's just too much of my job, and some of the politics among faculty I've loved since I was a student, where I now teach, really disappointed me.

But I've worked for as little as $1.25 an hour (because I was paid a pittance, by the job - and have pride in my work so I take the time to do it well no matter what someone decides it is worth to pay me), and as much as $85 an hour. I loved the $1.25 an hour position because it kept my mind active and kept me in touch with adults when my companion most of the day was age 0-5. I wasn't any smarter - or happier - at the top end of the pay scale than the bottom end.

What you earn, what you do, or people's prejudices about jobs they feel are beneath them doesn't define who you are - and anyone who thinks it does is the real moron. (Of course, sometimes that is easier to believe in theory than when someone is giving you that condescending look.)

Back to preparing for tomorrow - I've got a few more hours work of work before sleep time.

[ND-Dem]

46. Thanks; you helped me feel better about my situation. I agree with your take. In theory --

sometimes reality overwhelms, though.

Have a good tomorrow.

[quadrature]

8. April Fool, and/or Stanford will not admitt poor folk ..nt

[pnwmom]

9. Through grants and loans, Stanford promises to meet 100% of financial need

as determined by FAFSA, the government financial aid forms. Stanford admits students without regard to financial need, and then uses the FAFSA forms to determine the aid package they will offer.

Unlike some other schools, they don't give academic scholarships.

Here are other colleges and universities that say they will meet 100% of need so all admitted students will be able to attend:

http://www.thecollegesolution.com/list-of-colleges-that-meet-100-of-financial-need/

[MelissaB]

11. Need as determined by FAFSA has put our family in debt.

My child is at one of those schools that say they will meet 100% of need, but it really doesn't meet the needs of our family.

[pnwmom]

12. Yes -- and that is true for many. But now Stanford is expanding the number of students

who will get only grants rather than loans, which will help many. It's too bad all schools can't do this, but the ones that can, like Stanford, should.

[dannward]

14. Good for Stanford

Although I'm a Cal grad, even I can acknowledge this is a fantastic move by the folks at Leland Stanford Junior University.

[pnwmom]

22. LOL. Yeah, those people at The Farm did okay this time. nt

[aikoaiko]

15. The benefits of a $21 BILLION endowment.

[NCTraveler]

18. Now that is well endowed!!!! nt

[NCTraveler]

17. Good on Stanford and they deserve credit for doing this.

I do think the only reason they are able to do this right now, on their own, is the blatant inequity in the public education system. It will serve a small percentage well, but that is it, a small percentage.

[SidDithers]

19. DU rec...nt

Sid

[hifiguy]

27. Good for Stanford.

I expect to see my (law) alma mater follow suit. Nudge, nudge, Harvard.

[KamaAina]

29. Nice post, Ted Cruz!

[hifiguy]

30. That's not funny!

[KamaAina]

39. Well, think who I have to put up with

George W. Bush, Yale '68.

[hifiguy]

84. We all have our alumni crosses to bear.

[kelliekat44]

35. Should we thank the President and Elizabeth Warren for jawboning the tuition and affordability issue

I thank whoever helped this along.

[appalachiablue]

111. Both have done a good deal to spotlight national attention on college education costs & the loan-

debt nightmare, esp. Sen. Warren. She sponsored lower interest rate refinancing for students but it didn't pass. Says a lot about a nation that doesn't support investing in the young, rather exploiting them like the US self-centered, greed society does for 15+ years.

I remember when higher education was quite different, even for my parents and grandparents generations. No one left college with debt, perhaps only medical school but there was no complaining prior to the massive increases in tuition by the 90s. Now young people carry a major debt obligation when they enter the workforce, if they can find a job, at least a decent one. This prevents or delays purchasing a home, marrying and starting a family. What a mess.

Too bad few Americans know that Europe still works to invest in their future with the young, and I've noticed a steady PR campaign to marginalize EU labor systems and lifestyles as 'commie- socialist' for a couple decades.

[Cha]

37. Brilliant! mahalo Stanford and pnwmom!

[Quantess]

48. What about fees?

Tuition is free, okay fine, but.... college fees can easily equal tuition costs.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

49. Fees can be high, no doubt

But I've never seen fees that come anywhere near the cost of tuition.

[Quantess]

50. Have you ever attended college in California?

I attended a "tuition free" state college, San Francisco State University, with fees about the same cost as tuition in many other state colleges.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

52. Well, the average cost of attenance for San Francisco State University is $6468/year

of which tuition is $5472. If you can find a college with tuition of $996/year (fees), that's awesome.

[Quantess]

53. SFSU was "tuition free" in the early 1990s

With all the fees, it was the same price as any other state college. I attended SFSU 1992 to 1994.

Can you begin to see my skepticism now? Who is to say there is a maximum amount of fees that can be charged? Because the truth is, they can just raise the fees as much as they justifiably want / need to. California has had "tuition free" colleges before. This is not a new thing, but it is pretty much a gimmick.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

69. Yes, I see your point

However, whether the fees in 1992-94 were as much as some other state college is irrelevant, as they aren't now. There may be a state college out there somewhere that charges $996 per year or less for tuition, but I highly doubt it. And $996 is the average fee at SFSU this year, so you have to look at now, not 20+ years ago.

[Quantess]

70. Okay, great, *Insensitive One*. I guess you had everything go as planned,

in your own life.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

71. No, everything didn't go as planned in my life

But that has nothing to with your seemingly false claim that SFSU fees are as much or more than tuition at other state schools.

Not sure how stating fact is insensitive...seems to me that you're awfully defensive when faced with the truth.

[Quantess]

72. WHAT?! You just now called me a liar, and that is not okay!

Go look at your own behavior on this thread. You just want to "win".
Calling me a liar, because I talk about my own experiences is just plain bad behavior.

I definitely know what I am talking about!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

73. I didn't call you a liar

I said "seemingly false". You may well have data to back up your claim, and are just choosing not to provide it, I don't know. Or, it may be that what you've stated was true 20 years ago and you assume it still is.

Either way, unless you can show that there is state college in CA that charges $996 or less for a year of tuition, what you're claiming is no longer the case.

[Quantess]

75. What is your motivation for not taking me at my word?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

76. For what happened 20 years ago?

I haven't said that wasn't true. But you stated that it's true now, and even provided the name of the school. Your claim that fees are sometimes more than tuition just seemed strange to me, as I've never seen any college where that's the case, so I looked up the very school that you mentioned.

It may have been true 20 years ago, but it's highly doubtful that it's true today.

[Quantess]

78. The great thing about internet discussions, especially DU discussions,

is that anyone / all of us can view what exactly was or was not said!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

79. Yes, we can

Your post that started this exchange:

"Tuition is free, okay fine, but.... college fees can easily equal tuition costs."

So, where exactly is it true that college fees can easily equal tuition?

[Quantess]

81. This is where you called me a liar for relating my own experience!

I attended SFSU and graduated in 1994. Their own billing system said Tuition: 0 Fees: a couple thousand

I have also added links, for your enlightenment. You can choose to believe me or not. You might also check out pnwmom's reply to me.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

82. I didn't call you a liar

I said it may have been true then, but it certainly isn't true now. And using the word "can" certainly implies that you believe it to be true now.

I'll look for links from you, as I haven't seen any.

[Quantess]

86. DUH! Look below, genius.

I posted links, not directly to you, but to the OP.

Link #54

[SickOfTheOnePct]

87. You seem to have a very big chip on your shoulder

Why so angry?

And thanks, but I had already found the link...normally, when someone states they've posted something for a particular person's enlightenment, they've actually posted it to that person.

I hope you have a good weekend - seems like you could use some relaxation.

[Quantess]

88. Listen to your own advice!

Remember, you picked a fight with me, for a silly reason. You go get some rest, yourself, and have a Happy Easter if I dare say so!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

89. Stating fact is not picking a fight

And I'm not the one posting with sarcasm and name calling, that would be you.

I hope you are able to overcome the rage you apparently feel when someone disagrees with you.

[Quantess]

94. Sarcasm and name calling? Wow, when did that happen?

No joke here. Not joking.

Also "stating fact" is supposed to mean something big!!? WTF does "stating fact" mean? Is it more weighty in relevance to someone with direct experience with the topic at hand, college tuition vs. college fees.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

95. Go back and read what you've posted

If you can't figure it out, I don't know what to tell you.

[Quantess]

96. You picked a fight with me, told me you didn't believe my story.

What point do you want to make?

Please note: You might think it's fun to argue, but I actually do not find arguing to be enjoyable.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

97. As I said before, pointing out a fact is not picking a fight

If you believe this is arguing, and you don't like it, then why do you keep responding?

[Quantess]

99. What "fact" have you pointed out?

[SickOfTheOnePct]

101. The fact

that the fees at SFSU are not more than tuition at other colleges, as you claimed. They may have been 20 years ago, but they aren't now, as you initially claimed.

[Quantess]

102. "..as you initially claimed.." See, this is why people don't like you.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

104. If people don't like me because I prefer facts over fiction

that's fine with me.

And whether or not I'm liked by posters on a discussion board matters little to me.

[Quantess]

105. So you ARE calling me a liar!!! Nice person you are???

What do you "win"?!

[SickOfTheOnePct]

106. Win? Nothing at all.

It's only a contest in your mind, not in mine.

[Quantess]

107. So, why do you HAVE TO win this contest?

Which is apparent to anyone who happens to be reading this link.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

110. Why do you insist on calling it a "contest"?

It's a discussion on a discussion board. If you don't want to engage, then don't. No one is forcing you to reply.

[Quantess]

108. Oh and also, I never claimed anything at all about present day costs at SFSU.

Go back and read it if you need to. I have no idea why you are so set on calling me a liar, when all I have done is relate my own experience in the mid-early 1990s as a SFSU student. Tuition = 0 Fees = $ several thousand $

I feel insulted.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

109. I have read it

"Tuition is free, okay fine, but.... college fees can easily equal tuition costs."

Can implies present day, not the past. If you meant in the past, why didn't you state it as such?

As for you feeling insulted, that's your issue, not mine. I have no control over your feelings - that's on you. If you feel insulted when someone disagrees with you, then you're most likely going to spend a good part of your lfe feeling insulted.

[merrily]

51. Great!

But ludicrous that college has gone out of the reach of families with incomes of over $125K a year.

What a world!

[MissB]

56. It isn't necessarily out of reach.

(And forgive me if I misunderstood your post!)

For those folks that make more than $125k/year, it is expected that folks simply have more means. I know it isn't always the case, but folks in the higher income categories are the largest users of 529 plans.

Bottom line is that colleges expect parents to pay out of past income (savings, 529 plans), current income and future income (parent loans). While we haven't always been above that $125k/year amount, we are certainly there. Since we are expected to be "full pay", we've told our kids since middle school what the parameters are in terms of how much Mom and Dad are going to pay each year.

For our kids, they have to "make do" with $30k/year. Each. No one should be crying in their soup over the fact that parents like me can't afford Stanford or Yale or Harvard. I've been able to give my kids tons of advantages over the years, and it means that my kids will be able to attend a very nice private or public college for only that amount. The oldest will be a national merit kid and his first choice college throws at least $30k/year at their national merit students. I would argue that national merit status is often helped along by parental economic status.

Folks with incomes over $125k/year have plenty of options.

[merrily]

61. I meant only that a college education has become so expensive that you can earn over $100K a year

and still be eligible for aid.

To me, that is a crazy priority for a country as wealthy as this one.

[Quantess]

54. I am very skeptical. They will just increase the fees, obviously.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Community_Colleges_System

The Master Plan for Higher Education also banned tuition, as it was based on the ideal that public higher education should be free to students (just like K-12 primary and secondary education). As officially enacted, it states that public higher education "shall be tuition free to all residents." Thus, California residents legally do not pay tuition. However, the state has suffered severe budget deficits ever since the enacting of Proposition 13 in 1978, which led to the imposition of per-unit enrollment fees for California residents (equivalent in all but name to tuition) at all community colleges and all CSU and UC campuses to get around the legal ban on tuition.

http://www.dailycal.org/2014/12/22/history-uc-tuition-since-1868/

[pnwmom]

63. Stanford is private -- not part of the public system that is written about there.

And the cost for the tuition is coming from its HUGE endowment. They are required by law, as a nonprofit, to spend a certain fraction of that endowment every year, so this is what they're going to be spending it on.

[Quantess]

65. Standford is private? Okay, I did not know that.

I always thought it was UC Stanford.

No wonder I seem to be the only skeptical doubter on this thread.

[pnwmom]

66. Maybe you're thinking of UCBerkeley?

They are both top schools and huge rivals. Berkeley students call Stanford, "The Farm."

For good reason. . . .

[salin]

74. Stanford students also call Stanford "The Farm"

Cal students used to sometimes call Stanford "The Junior University" (Leland Stanford, Jr. University)

I think this is great news!

[hifiguy]

83. Do they still have The Axe

as the football trophy for the Cal/Stanford game?

[salin]

98. no idea

its been some years.

Though I remember (sometime in the 90s) that the two mascots (Oskie the Bear, and "the Tree&quot broke into a brawl at a game - and IIRC, both had assault charges filed. Crazy rivalry!

[DemocraticWing]

62. Private colleges are not made for us poor people.

This is nothing, Stanford admits few actually poor students because of structural inequalities. They're only doing this to get a few tokens to make it look like they're diverse, but rest assured most students will still come from "elite backgrounds" with all the best tutors and private schooling mommy and daddy can by.

It's time to ignore these scam private universities and tax the hell out of them. Use the money to make public schools the best educational experience in the world: elite, rigorous, and free to all who want them.

[pnwmom]

64. About 70% of their students are given financial aid

but it is true that the poorest applicants have more difficulty getting accepted in the first place because of structural inequalities -- they come from worse high schools, have lower scores, etc.

But no poor parent of a high achieving child should stop that child from applying to schools like Stanford. President Obama was the son of a single mom with very little money, but he got a scholarship to a private high school and then to college.

[SickOfTheOnePct]

85. Exactly right and well said n/t

[SickOfTheOnePct]

80. I think it's great

Well qualified students that would have had no way of going there will now have a chance to do so. I think it's an example other universities should follow.

[Historic NY]

103. How lucky most would never achieve admittance.