General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums5 years probation for a Gang Rape---Man this is fucked up!
SANFORD A 16-year-old former Winter Springs High School football player today pleaded guilty to gang rape and was placed on probation for five years.
He is the first of five co-defendants to enter a plea or go to trial in the highly-charged case. According to prosecution records, he did the least harm to the 16-year-old girl, quickly stopping when she told him, "No."
He along with four others team members were arrested after the girl emerged from a patch of woods near the school Nov. 13, in tears, telling a friend that several high school boys had gang raped her.
The suspects told police either they had not taken part or that the sex was consensual.
The defendant who entered his plea today was one of three to be charged as juveniles and faced a maximum sentence of being confined to a juvenile facility until age 19.
Today's plea was a surprise. The teenager, who lives in Sanford, was scheduled to appear in court tomorrow, but attorneys moved his hearing up a day.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-winter-springs-high-rape-plea-20150316-story.html
Laurian
(2,593 posts)Like Steubenville never happened. Change is a long time coming....jocks still skate.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)limits.
Supposedly he stopped when the girl told him to stop. It's probably justified.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)He couldn't figure it otherwise?
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Shrike47
(6,913 posts)He is now a potential witness against the other four. It all makes sense to me.
Sarcastica
(95 posts)His testimony can go along way should the others try to say the sex was consensual.
Hopefully, the prosecution made the deal in concert with the victim.
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)Because only a true superior intellect would spend all their waking moments thinking about what they hate most
Response to arcane1 (Reply #7)
Name removed Message auto-removed
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)The dude spends waaaay too much time trying to disrupt here. Most of his shit goes *poof* before anyone can read it. Sad, really.
gerogie2
(450 posts)I don't subscribe to the lock 'em up and throw away the key for teenagers. Their minds are still developing and they should be given a chance at reform.
Beaverhausen
(24,475 posts)jesus christ, spare me.
gerogie2
(450 posts)Thankfully the judge took everything into account and handed down an appropriate sentence for a minor. What makes you think probation and counseling won't be effective rather then spending $50k per year warehousing the child?
Beaverhausen
(24,475 posts)You need some.
Calista241
(5,586 posts)And more than likely, the prosecutor secured his testimony against the other perps.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)But in a gang rape situation? He couldn't figure out it wasn't a good idea to start whatever it is he was doing?
Jenoch
(7,720 posts)during the investigation it was discovered that this perp actually did stop when told no and the victim corroborated. They needed one of them to testify against the others. It is likely they then took his statement and shared it with the victim and she must have agreed with it or they would not have given the deal to him. I think he should at least have to do many hours of community service as well, but I don't know what tge Florida laws are.
Should the victim just say, "oh, that's okay, you're still developing"? What about her trauma. Sorry, 16 is plenty old enough to know not to rape.
Nobody suggested he be locked up and the key thrown away, but there should be some real consequences for his actions.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Even then, he's still a potential risk to others.
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)So this deal actually provides longer supervision.
Also, a rapist that stops when so instructed by the victim is perhaps not so twisted as you appear to be assuming. One can see how prosecutor and judge might perceive that to be a relevant fact about assessing his degree of danger to the public at this time and rehabilitative potential.
It's shocking, he was participating with the group. I grant you that. He does not deserve to walk and he hasn't.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)LisaL
(44,982 posts)I don't exactly understand what DA is doing here. He offered 3 of the accused very lenient plea deals. Including a supposed mastermind (different guy from the one that accepted a deal).
The other two he plans to try as adults (even though they are not yet 18). I don't understand this logic here. Shouldn't mastermind, at the very least, be tried as an adult?
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)This one wasn't. I think the judge would have had to approve the transfer or perhaps indictment. Both perhaps unlikely if he stopped. For some serious crimes it is non-discretionary, but I think the 15 year old (now 16) was destined to stay in juvenile court.
For the others, I am not sure why. They all seem to have been older.
It may be due to weakness in evidence/testimony. It seems like the prosecutor is trying to get them to plead guilty by using the threat of direct file against two of the older ones, and charging the two he thinks he can really convict as as adults.
This may have started as a consensual encounter between the girl and her friend, with the the friend having told the other boys to show up, and then proceeded to get wild. But it may be one of those things that is difficult in front of jury, especially with young defendants, and potentially very traumatic to the victim.
Just the fact that this one stopped when she told him "No" raises a doubt as to what he thought it was. You have to prove intent - intent to rape, to assault.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)"The girl's video, recorded in two segments, does not show the sex acts, but its audio captured her telling the boys, "No," and saying she wanted to return to school."
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-gang-rape-winter-springs-high-20150120-story.html
Yo_Mama
(8,303 posts)It's a terrible story. I was trying to address what may be the prosecutor's strategy.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)Otherwise I can't understand his logic.
gerogie2
(450 posts)I believe in reform for people under the age of 21. You must be republican that wants to lock up minors at a cost of $50k per year for no reason.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)Is that what you think about rape? Holy shit.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)Laurian
(2,593 posts)To flippantly call me a Republican is really, really low.
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)That person has a really messed up sense of right and wrong. Rape is not "no reason" as they claimed. Rape is a heinous crime.
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)Thank you for helping to expose him.
Laurian
(2,593 posts)just had to get away from that thread. Thanks for the update.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Egnever
(21,506 posts)Article says he stopped when she said no.
trumad
(41,692 posts)He participated in Fucking gang rape.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Pretty silly to sentence someone to years in jail when you don't even know what part he played.
trumad
(41,692 posts)We do know.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Other than that we don't know much.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Did he or did he not?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Did he or did he not?
trumad
(41,692 posts)Answer the simple fucking question.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)What clownish responses. Enjoy getting your rage on you clearly cant discuss this rationally.
trumad
(41,692 posts)You won't answer the question because the answer destroys your whole defense of the little shmuck who participated in the rape of a 16 year old girl.
So I'll answer for you. He pled guilty to the crime.
Goodbye.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Pleading guilty to a crime does not mean you are guilty of that crime.
trumad
(41,692 posts)He was there..let it happen...and kept quiet until he was caught.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Did you really just write that?
Jamastiene
(38,187 posts)I got news for you. Rape is a heinous crime. He committed a crime. Let him do his time, if you can quit coddling him long enough.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)Lancero
(3,018 posts)Sad state of affairs that a jury left this rape apologist crap stand.
Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)message and juror's comments. Thanks.
Lancero
(3,018 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)What precisely leads you to believe his sentencing is predicated on "no reason?"
You seem both emotional and irrational, regardless of whether you're a republican or not...
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)and while you may think the life of that girl and all this man's future victims not worth $50k a year, the majority of Democratic voters are actually women who imagine their lives to be worth something. To call someone a Republican for wanting to see a rapist prosecuted is nonsensical. Amazingly, the GOP is not the party of women's rights, and your views of rape far more closely align with theirs than does the other poster you insulted.
"Emotional clap trap": Calling rape "no reason" is hardly based on reason or free from emotion. Quite the opposite. The statement requires an intense level of negative emotion.
25 percent of women in this country are raped, and only 3 percent of rapists ever do jail time. Seeing that as a problem is not "emotional clap trap." Rather, it is a civil rights issue based on the idea of women as citizens and human beings whose lives matter.
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)I just did.
cyberswede
(26,117 posts)MIR Team (Skinner) banned gerogie2
Mail Message
Reason:
Previously banned rape apologist.
http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=310233&sub=trans
Real name:
DU Member for: 1 years, 3 months, 15 days
Posts: 450
Recommendations: 0
Star member: No
BainsBane
(53,127 posts)First thing I did when I signed on was to check his status and he was still active. So glad Skinner acted.
Thanks to everyone who sent the admin alerts.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)yea
A-Schwarzenegger
(15,596 posts)smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)This. I can't believe some people on this site.
Laffy Kat
(16,392 posts)This shit is NOT going to stop unless the law begins to take it seriously and hand down appropriate penalties. This is about the girl. Period. Hopefully, she has input into the rapists' sentencing, albeit confidential input for the sake of her privacy and protection.
And BTW, I have two boys, 16 & 21, and you'd better believe their frontal lobes are developed enough to know rape is WRONG.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)in gang-raping someone.
Response to gerogie2 (Reply #9)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Egnever
(21,506 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Poor girl has a lifetime of having to deal with this horror. Certainly a couple of years in jail would be sufficient for this little turd.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)That's what two other minors in the case who are being tried as adults are facing.
Two other minors are looking at being held until they are 19. A year or two.
I guess the juvenile justice system is a picky, choosy kind of thing.
gerogie2
(450 posts)I'm sorry I have worked with kids that did armed robberies that turned their life around and became productive members of societies with beautiful families. Destroying a minors life for an immature and implosive act is not helpful to society. IMHO.
trumad
(41,692 posts)It's monstrous.
NM_Birder
(1,591 posts)trumad
(41,692 posts)Now you're just trolling me.
I don't know enough about the circumstances to make a judgement what is appropriate in this case. I do know I did stupid shit when I was young, I am lucky to be alive today with some of the stunts I pulled and even luckier that I never got anyone else hurt. I cant imagine being punished today still for the mistakes I made when I was a kid 30 years ago.
My heart goes out to the girl to be sure and I hope she gets whatever help she can to deal with what happened.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Really?
Egnever
(21,506 posts)Rex
(65,616 posts)How does doing stupid shit and raping a women even fall into the same realm with you? I hope you mean stuff like racing cars drunk or something of that nature.
trumad
(41,692 posts)With this type of shit. Unreal.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Rape is like stunts. You read it here on a progressive forum first. NOT FR or stormfront. Democratic Underground. You know who else pretends such vile shit is just stunts? Rush Limpballs. Maybe this is just a big prank to said poster. Just disgusting.
STUNTS.
Egnever
(21,506 posts)According to the google hive mind.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)What gives here?
Two charged as adults. The other three offered lenient plea deals as juveniles, including the guy who according to the OP is accused of masterminding the whole thing.
Doesn't add up to me.
Rex
(65,616 posts)is it? What do you think?
niyad
(113,860 posts)players.
Thespian2
(2,741 posts)these bastards did a very wrong attack on a female. In Florida. Where the authorities don't give one shit about human beings who are not them. After all, she is just a female, and all Republicans know that being a female is detrimental to your health. Why, after all should a female be concerned if she is raped by a group of ignorant bastards. If she should become pregnant and have a child, Rick Santorum will gladly adopt the child and support it through to adulthood.
Personal opinion? Hang them up by their balls.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)The court is saying a big fuck you and get over it to the victim.
This is what rape culture looks like.
Oklahoma_Liberal
(69 posts)I suspect some of these same DUers crying for harsher punishment would be whining for leniency. Funny, that.
LisaL
(44,982 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"I suspect some of these same DUers..."
I think you're confusing "suspect" and "wish validation."
mercuryblues
(14,556 posts)has very deep roots in misogyny. Women have been called sluts, whores, vamps and more. They have been degraded to the point where they are systematically not considered to have the same value as men. If they are beaten and raped, what were they doing there. If they were drugged and raped, why did she trust them. If she had a few drinks and was raped, she shouldn't have been drinking. Everything said is to mitigate a rapists criminal responsibility. Then people are surprised when rapists get nothing more than a slap on their wrists with a white glove.
Even the defense that when she said no, he stopped raping her is being used to defend his heinous act. Did he stop the others? Did he say NO way when the ring leader hatched the plan. Did he call the police? No. Even afterwards he did not go to the police and confess. He continued on, as nothing happened until the police arrested him. He accepted a deal that benefits him, after the fact, after they got caught. YAY! But there is still a young woman who was raped and she must simply learn how to "deal with it."
When women say that men need to take a stand against rape, they get blasted as hating men. Because you know not *all men* are rapists. Of course not all men are rapists. *Some* men truly do combat rape culture. But in all seriousness how many men take a stand and against the use of words like whore, slut, bitch and every other derogatory term used to describe women in an effort to diminish their worth? Just in the last week or so the use of the word whore has been justified on this board at least 3X's. Words like that directly contribute to light sentences for rape. Even if they are used to describe something or someone else. The underlying meaning and context is still there. It still devalues a woman's humanity. To the point where rape test kits are rotting in storage by the 100,000's of thousands. To the point where police say things like "call the police we can't unrape you" To the point where some police rape women. To the point where an SVU cop attempts to rape a woman all his punishment is losing his vacation and demoted.
Still *some* people refuse to believe how using derogatory terms for females and their anatomy has any negative outcome. They were just kidding, quoting an article. Toughen up you bitches. You take things too seriously. I am truly sorry that I can't laugh at your joking around and ignore it. My personal safety depends on fighting it.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Some above are making this kid out to be innocent because he didn't continue the assault...the conveniently leave out everything else.
mercuryblues
(14,556 posts)Just about everyone here laughs at the "trickle down" economic theory. Some fail to grasp the same for a woman's safety. The true change starts at the grass roots and works their way up the system. Even if all people don't agree with this, the change in culture would be substantial. No longer will rape apologist feel comfortable placing the blame on the victim. No longer will criminals be able to have their actions minimized. Giving judges and prosecutors room to give such blatantly light sentences.
trumad
(41,692 posts)reason as to why the kid only got probation. That girl is harmed for life because of what this kid did and his pack of jackasses.
Response to trumad (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)Five years is one third of his current life. It will also mark his record. If the other "boys", including the ring-leader decide to go to trial, I am hoping there is an agreement in place for this person to testify against the others. It appears two of the older "boys" have yet to decide their direction within the system. I am also hoping there is some form of counseling that goes along with his sentence.
What do you think his sentence should be? You have stated that it is fucked up that a fifteen year old is sentenced to five years probation without stating what isn't fucked up. Every bit of it sounds fucked up to me.
trumad
(41,692 posts)Probation only for participating in a gang bang rape is insane.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)I don't think they are all that far off. I would be completely behind the detention center idea if I know more about the detention center or if our punitive system was fundamentally changed. I see know way, without serious counseling and rehab in a detention center, he would come out anything more than a stunted adult with worse issues than when he went in. I am not in total disagreement with you. I would just like to see him helped. The thought of helping him might anger some, but without help, it will just generate future victims of his.
nomorenomore08
(13,324 posts)My more optimistic side wholeheartedly agrees with this. But there's also the possibility he'll re-offend even with "help."
Either way, at 16 there's probably more hope of rehabilitating him than there would be at, say, 21.
flvegan
(64,425 posts)Then said, nevermind. I'm giving up suffering fools gladly for Lent. Or something.
get the red out
(13,468 posts)Until the victim automatically goes to jail, at this rate.
whathehell
(29,103 posts)and got away with it?
It must be one horrible, right wing place!
H2O Man
(73,692 posts)I find the report in the OP, as well as a few of the responses here, to be troubling.
First, rape is a serious crime. It is an assault on one's person-hood: body and mind. It damages the victim, their family and friends, the fabric of their community.
The young man in question didn't simply make a small mistake or do something stupid -- and it really is a teenager's job to make mistakes, and do stupid things, from time to time. Were it otherwise, what challenges could parents and school teachers look forward to? The teens' ability to mix insight and intelligence, with a few cup fulls of stupidity, never ceases to amaze me.
I've raised my children -- two boys and two girls -- who are all above average intelligence. To various extents, each provided me with some mighty complex challenges. Lots of nieces and nephews. In social work, I dealt with hundreds of kids.
In that experience, I've never met a kid who did not know right from wrong, especially in the context of damaging another person. Rape and gang rape are not things that one makes an honest mistake in doing.
I don't know how many times I've heard a kid attempt to justify, for example, stealing a car for an afternoon by saying, "Yeah, I knew it was wrong. But it seemed like a fun idea, and besides, no one got hurt."
We know that the part of the brain most closely connected with grasping future consequences doesn't fully develop, until around age 24. But that part that knows right from wrong surely has.
In my opinion, that sentence is terrible. What's more, the same type of thinking that the court used in reaching it, can be found in some of the responses to the OP. That's a shame.