George W Bush attempted to sell the invasion of Iraq to Jacques Chirac using biblical prophecy.

[malaise]

Someone should send this to Joe Scum and the other morons attacking Obama for his address at the prayer breakfast.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/andrewbrown/2009/aug/10/religion-george-bush
<snip>
In the winter of 2003, when George Bush and Tony Blair were frantically gathering support for their planned invasion, Professor Thomas Römer, an Old Testament expert at the university of Lausanne, was rung up by the Protestant Federation of France. They asked him to supply them with a summary of the legends surrounding Gog and Magog and as the conversation progressed, he realised that this had originally come, from the highest reaches of the French government.

President Jacques Chirac wanted to know what the hell President Bush had been on about in their last conversation. Bush had then said that when he looked at the Middle East, he saw "Gog and Magog at work" and the biblical prophecies unfolding. But who the hell were Gog and Magog? Neither Chirac nor his office had any idea. But they knew Bush was an evangelical Christian, so they asked the French Federation of Protestants, who in turn asked Professor Römer.

He explained that Gog and Magog were, to use theological jargon, crazy talk. They appear twice in the Old Testament, once as a name, and once in a truly strange prophecy in the book of Ezekiel:

And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

Who are all these people? The best opinion is that like all Bible prophecy, it is a mixture of wish-fulfilment and contemporary (iron age) politics. Some of it at least seems to refer to the turmoil brought about by Alexander the Great in the fourth century BC (unlike Bush, Alexander actually conquered Afghanistan). But they have been for the last two hundred years the subject of increasingly excited evangelical fanfic, especially in America; in the 70s and 80s, Gog was meant to be Russia. Ronald Reagan seems to have believed that.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

1. This story makes me want to apologize to the world. Again.

What an embarrassment this dolt was.

[erronis]

33. Agreed - had to hide my USA citizenship when travelling

Met other USA (I don't use Americans so I don't besmirch the wonderful Canadians and Mexicans), travelers who had flags, insignia, etc. on their backpacks that indicated they weren't from the land of Bush/stoopids. When talking and finding out our country of origin, we would all agree how embarrassed we were by the dimWit and his evil henchman.

Unfortunately I don't feel a lot better now. Obama was welcomed to the realm of savior when he took office and got the Nobel Peace prize. That is a total mystery when hope for something happening replaces the actuality. From now on, lets award these medals after they have been deserved...

However, the dim Dolt is gone and the USA is still regarded as a basket case. From my perspective it is mainly because of the influence of huge sums of money in every facet of decision making. Not just voting in your favorite puppet as a congressional representative but also influencing the hiring decisions in every agency.

These turds now have enough money and clout that they are no longer just trying to buy the federal apparatus but are reaching into the states and the local bodies.

Will the SCOTUS eventually decide that too much is too much when someone with $1,000,000,000,000 (trillion) wants to buy us lock, stock, and barrel (and the SCOTUS is not wanted)? Might be too late.

[randys1]

52. Me too, and you know what? the teaparty didnt even exist then, they are WORSE now

[libdem4life]

2. This is absolutely true for Fundies. They are drooling for the ME to erupt in a final conflagration

so that Christ can come and rescue them.

And the messy convoluted relationship that they have with the Jews/Israel is only because they know the Jews aren't going to keep it...per the Bible...that Christ's armies will either kill them or convert them and become their Messiah but either way, he'll be on the Mount of Jerusalem as King. Even the number of 144,000 is given 12,000 from each Judaic tribe.

All one has to do is Google End Times ... or Armegeddon ... The AntiChrist ... (the Pope most likely) Good against Evil ... Revelations Prophecies. It is the Book of Revelations that the Apostle John, not coincidentally the last book of the Bible...writes about his visions, many of them referring to Old Testament prophecy. There is a huge market for these books and speakers among that group. Sarah Palin was one of them.

There is a kind of rift as to when the "called" will get to go up in the air. It's called Pre-Tribulation...they magically arise before literally all Hell breaks loose, or Post-Tribulation...that their Christianity will be tested literally by fire and then Christ will come get them.

[malaise]

7. Then why are they upset when Obama said that other religions have done evil things in the

name of religion.

[libdem4life]

10. You're referring to Christians? It's complicated, but the end times are seen as the Time of

Deliverance from the evils of this world...going to Heaven...deliverance from every other religion ... which if it's not of Christ is of Satan ... or any person regardless of religion. They need those Evils so they can fight them for Good and win and go to Heaven. They are upset Obama is talking about the evils the Christians have done, because in their vision, anything done in the name of Jesus is Righteous kind of like State Declared War...and that includes the Crusades.

Fundamentalists will not answer this (or many other questionable subjects) quite so literally...it was how I found out I was not one of them, even though born one. Thinking is discouraged and questions are near treason.

[Turbineguy]

35. If they believed in God

they might realize that God would be the one to set the schedule of these events and forcing the schedule might not be such a good idea..

[libdem4life]

44. You kind of had to be raised with them to really understand that logic is nowhere in sight. n/t

[Fred Sanders]

12. The horrible murder and burning of the Jordanian pilot must have got them very excited then.

[libdem4life]

19. Indeed. (Shudder)

[randys1]

54. Your comment is sarcasm to us adults, but it is actually a truism with the teaparty twisted

insane christian assholes.

[BigDemVoter]

3. As much distaste as I have for Jacques Chirac. . .

He's a rock star compared to that ignorant, know-nothing, born-again, DRUNK fuck-up, GWB!

[3catwoman3]

15. That a very good...

...description of GWB. What an embarrassment he was.

[napkinz]

4. Bush's Crusade ...

see http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026201709

[Orsino]

5. Grown-up politicians don't fall for that bullshit. n/t

[napkinz]

6. on a mission from God ...

[jakeXT]

8. Magog is George H. W. Bush, it's his Skull and Bones name from Yale

Members are assigned nicknames (e.g., "Long Devil", the tallest member, and "Boaz", a varsity football captain, or "Sherrife" prince of future). Many of the chosen names are drawn from literature (e.g., "Hamlet", "Uncle Remus&quot , religion, and myth. The banker Lewis Lapham passed on his nickname, "Sancho Panza", to the political adviser Tex McCrary. Averell Harriman was "Thor", Henry Luce was "Baal", McGeorge Bundy was "Odin", and George H. W. Bush was "Magog".[24]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skull_and_Bones

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

9. How embarrassing for the United States

Bush sounding like someone on crack going on about Gog and Magog with the President of France. Bush trying to force Angela Merkel to let him give her an impromptu massage as if they were friends and part of some study group in a college library. Bush trying to express himself in his limited Spanish with the Prime Minister of Spain but instead of calling him "Mr. Aznar" instead calling him "Mr. Goose" (he used the Spanish word "Ansar" that means goose). I'm sure there are other examples.

Maybe if Chirac had responded favorably to the Gog Magog deleriums of the Chimp, he would not have officially been declared persona non grata at the Bush ranch as Chirac was declared. Among major heads of state, Chirac was never invited to visit it.

Gog sounds like some kind of comic book alien, like Zod in Superman II.

[Enthusiast]

16. The Dixie Chicks were right on the money.

[Fred Sanders]

22. The Dixie Chicks dissented from the Big War, Big Lie of Bush and his media. America needs them again. My heroines.

[pkdu]

30. Dont forget this one....

[link:|

[hifiguy]

38. That may be the single most imbecilic expression

ever seen on a human face.

[Enthusiast]

40. He used those expressions to disarm his detractors.

We wouldn't want to jail such a charming idiot. It didn't work on me.

[LeftishBrit]

11. Good grief

As though Jacques Chirac of all people cared about biblical prophecies!

Bush was nuts. And stupid with it. I'm glad he's gone, but he did so much damage.

[Enthusiast]

13. K&R! Malaise, they're a bunch of crazy fuckers. That's what they are.

Just like Sarah Palin.

[nruthie]

17. Ah yes, exciting times indeed. Armageddon is coming soon!

According to my old right-wing geezer buddy. He advises me to do some serious biblical study as all the signs of the approaching great finale are now taking place. Just a matter of time and he predicts rapture for himself and hellfire for me. He is beside himself with glee as he waits impatiently for all of us non-believers to be smote down. People who think this way are actively rooting for the war to end all wars because then Jesus will return and preside over everything and they will all live happily forever after. The rest of us...not so much.

[herding cats]

18. I've never seen this report, but I've read before it was mission from God for Bush

George Bush has claimed he was on a mission from God when he launched the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, according to a senior Palestinian politician in an interview to be broadcast by the BBC later this month.

Mr Bush revealed the extent of his religious fervour when he met a Palestinian delegation during the Israeli-Palestinian summit at the Egpytian resort of Sharm el-Sheikh, four months after the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003.

One of the delegates, Nabil Shaath, who was Palestinian foreign minister at the time, said: "President Bush said to all of us: 'I am driven with a mission from God'. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did."

Mr Bush went on: "And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/iraq.usa

Sounds a lot like some sort of crazy holy crusade where around a half a million people have died as a consequence.

[malaise]

39. Remember now only them 'Islamists'

kill for religion

[herding cats]

42. Silly me! What was I thinking?

I totally got my religious wars being waged by a nutcase fringe to fulfill an insane prophesy confused there for a second! This one doesn't count because it was sanctioned by a world superpower. Boy, is my face red!

[malaise]

43. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaah hahahha

[BB1]

20. Wow, really?

*snort*
Not surprised at all. W must be the worst invention since the chastity belt.

[Octafish]

21. Yeah. So?

[iandhr]

23. Surely you can't be serious.

[bullwinkle428]

24. I recall this being discussed here at DU when it was revealed, and how Chirac was totally...

[hifiguy]

31. I suspect the look Chirac gave ol' chucklenuts

was the same one he'd give to someone who decided to drop trou and poop on the floor at Versailles.

[project_bluebook]

25. republiCons doing Gods work?

when hell freezes over and a lot of republiCons will get damned cold.

[EEO]

26. War criminal with Bible in hand and delusions in his feeble mind.

[Owl]

27. For real?

[FiveGoodMen]

28. "Someone should send this to Joe Scum and the other morons"

As if they were honest participants in a discussion.

They already know they lied.

They knew it as they were doing it.

Someone needs to get the attention of the American people with this info (don't ask me how).

[malaise]

41. You have a point

Joe Scum knows

[hifiguy]

29. I am not convinced that there is a metric that can measure or quantify

just how complete a moron His Chimperial Majesty truly was and is.

[GeorgeGist]

32. Walker, Cruz, Paul in negative?

Cause they make Bush seem smarter.

[hifiguy]

34. Walker's not a dummy

He's a beady-eyed shitweasel who's owned lock, stock and barrel by the Kochtopus, but i don't think he's stupid, at least not in the same way as the Chimperor.

Cruz had to have had brains once - he graduated from Princeton and then from Harvard Law magna cum laude, and I can tell you that there may have been reactionaries there but I never encountered anyone dumb in my three years at HLS. What his problem is eludes my abilities to identify or understand.

Rand Paul is just plain squirrel-turd nutty, which is another pathology altogether.

Georgie is unique among them for his complete lack of anything even resembling brains.

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. GWB is a Fundamentalist Evangelical....its part of their "prophesy" that ALL religions not

Christian be annihilated before "Christ can return". Therefore it doesn't surprise me at all that the man who literally thinks "God speaks directly to him" would have invaded Iraq because he also, like many Fundamentalists think that the U.S. was create and prophesied as literal catalyst to their End of Times fever dreams...

[libdem4life]

45. Plus the 144,000 Judeo-Christians. That is the trigger...Jews embracing the Messiah before

he can come back, because Christ is a Judeo-Christian...born a Jew converted to/creating Christianity.

[VanillaRhapsody]

46. No not before.....the few Jews left will immediately fall to their knees submit and accept Jesus

when he appears....what has to happen first....is the Jews rebuild the Temple on the Mount...THAT is the signal that Jesus is coming and THAT is why the Fundamentalists support Israel.

[libdem4life]

47. I forget the actual time line. Christians hopefully think the Rapture will be before Armegeddon.

Either way, the Jews are pretty much left to convert, then to sort it out. Let us pray neither of them are right.

[VanillaRhapsody]

48. there are 2 opposing sides on that issue

the millenials and post millenials...I think they call them.

And my opinion is No they are absolutely wrong!

[libdem4life]

49. Actually, if I may, the factions are the Pre-Trib and the Post-Trib folks.

The Pre-Trib are those who don't want to deal with the messy End Times and prefer to watch it from Heaven.

The Post-Trib are those who want to, believe they must, Fight the Great Fight and convert the 144,000 necessary Jews-turned Christian...the Judeo Christians. I mean, they are all going to Heaven anyway, right?

It's all pretty sicko, if you ask me, and an equally sick reason to foment and instigate what's going on in the Middle East right now. The secular leaders are woefully uneducated as to the Fundies and their bloodthirsty fervor. It's in the Bible, thus .... ad nauseum.

[libdem4life]

50. Trib means Tribulation...the End Times as noted in Revelations.

[VanillaRhapsody]

51. that is the word I was looking for....Thanks!

exactly right!

[napkinz]

37. The Great Crusader

[Dont call me Shirley]

53. Using BS to sell more BS. Bush = the BS masters.

Or bushit.

[malaise]

55. And here comes one more BSer - as in Jeb