Kris Jenner Trans- Shamed Bruce Jenner For Years After Finding Him Wearing Her Dresses

[big_dog]

Fresh off a divorce from Robert Kardashian and saddled with four young children, Kris Jenner thought she had found her Prince Charming in Olympic gold medalist, Bruce Jenner. Within months of their whirlwind courtship and quickie marriage, however, the shocking truth came to light: According to an insider, Kris walked in on Bruce secretly wearing her clothes, sparking a hateful meltdown and years of bitter humiliation and shame. Jenner has been living as a woman behind closed doors in Malibu and will break his silence about his transformation in an upcoming interview with Diane Sawyer.

“Kris had come home from early from a playdate with the kids, and she walked in on Bruce in one of her dresses,” the source revealed. “She was absolutely stunned, and immediately shamed Bruce, and told him to never let it happen again.” “Immediately going into denial mode, Bruce really wanted to explain it to his wife, but she wasn’t having it. Kris said if the information was ever made public, they would go broke as a family because back then, Bruce was the sole bread winner for the family,” the source continued. “It was a very sad, dark time for Bruce and it was never forgotten.”

Even after all these years, said the source, “Bruce still has the scars from that horrible time with Kris. There was hardly any information about people suffering from gender identity issues back then. Bruce didn’t know how to explain it other than he liked wearing women’s clothes. And Kris didn’t help the situation.”

Today, her reaction hasn’t been much better. After formally telling ex-wife Kris recently that he planned to undergo a sex change operation, her reaction “was less than enthusiastic,” a source told Radar. “Her main concern was how Bruce was going to go public with it, and if it could hurt the Kardashian empire. The only thing Kris has ever cared about is the superficial: designer clothes, over-the-top vacations and her public persona.” “This could have been a great moment for Kris to step up and support the father of their two daughters, Kendall and Kylie. Sadly, it’s just not who she is,” the source added.

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/02/kris-jenner-shamed-bruce-jenner/

[MADem]

1. Well, so much for the whole she was "shocked, shocked" and "had no idea" meme she's been shopping.

She should watch 'TRANSPARENT.' It's an eye opener, done with humor.

[big_dog]

3. it won the Golden Globe this year, right?

Jeffrey Tambor is always great

[MADem]

32. Astounding series--first rate acting, it has that wry, quirky, but not-overdone funniness to it, and

the writing is pitch perfect. I can't recommend it more strongly!

But to the topic at hand, I suppose Bruce should have been "shamed" -- that he borrowed clothing from someone with such poor taste!!!! She was worried about the bottom line, since he was the only earner, not her husband's mental health...what a peach.

[merrily]

2. I am no fan of Kris Jenner. However, the time to reveal a penchant for cross dressing is before you

marry someone, not after they catch you in their clothes because they brought the children you had with them home earlier than you expected.

Besides, this doesn't seem to be only about cross dressing.

[frazzled]

11. Agreed (and yes, cross-dressing and transgender are separate issues)

When someone you marry turns out to be someone different than that which was revealed before marriage, there is an understandable sense of having been betrayed or deceived. And there is self-doubt: was I just being used? Is there something wrong with me?

In addition: there is no way of verifying this made-up dialogue.

I have no skin in this game whatsoever: they are all publicity hounds, including Jenner, who wouldn't be about to put this all in a tv special otherwise.

Why do we care about this anyway? Are we just feeding the publicity machine? (For disclosure: I have had friends whose husbands have left them because they were gay; and yes, the wives were hurt—you have to understand that there has been pain on both sides. I also have a friend currently transitioning (f to m), of which I am very supportive.)

[merrily]

13. It has nothing to do with being supportive of members of the GLBT community. Few things have

made me prouder of any government I live under than Massachusetts recognizing equal marriage. I am not just not supportive of being dishonest to your future spouse, let alone to the woman you are about to impregnate.

Then again, I guess I have no way of knowing if he was honest with her up front, do I?

[Dorian Gray]

30. I agree

good points.

[KamaAina]

40. I also have a friend currently transitioning (f to m), of which I am very supportive.

No, I also have one. Supportive, but a little confused: I totally get M to F, but am unsure why anyone would wish to join our team. I thought this person worked rather nicely as an F, actually.

[crim son]

26. I agree 100%.

As much right as Bruce has to be who he wants to be, his wife has the right to know who that person is before she signs on for life.

[HappyMe]

28. They were married for 22 years I think.

Kris could have called it off long ago if she wanted to.

[get the red out]

53. And Bruck couldn't?

He could have filed for divorce as easily as she could.

[HappyMe]

55. She was the one that was so damn ashamed.

Maybe he truly loved her. Why do abused women stay with men?

If the shoe was on the other foot, and Kris was wearing Bruce's clothes it would have been perfectly fine for him to shame her for all those years, right?

[get the red out]

57. I am not excusing her behavior

I am just saying that he wasn't completely without an out either. I condemn abuse in a partnership or in any instance. And I really think she is a hateful woman. But would people defending Bruce lying to her feel any different if he had lied to a sweet, non-abusive wife who didn't take this well? That is what I wonder.

[polly7]

60. I'm just asking, maybe he didn't lie about anything after her first catching him in a dress?

Is it possible he was later fighting any feelings, agreeing with her on how to live his life, at his own expense?

[get the red out]

62. In the end

we don't know, and probably never will with all the money they make from their controversies.

[polly7]

63. You're right, and it's none of my business - I couldn't care less if I even knew who

these people are, but they do seem to do quite well with every new one that comes up.

That said, I hope Bruce does whatever brings him peace.

[get the red out]

73. They do like to make it everybody's business

"Reality TV" and all.

[HappyMe]

65. I am not entirely sure that he lied to her.

To me, this is a very difficult thing to have to tell or discuss with a spouse or SO. Being an Olympic star and having this kind of worry and confusion to deal with probably isn't an easy thing. For me, that lack of empathy for somebody struggling with a huge identity crisis like this is pretty crappy. Like I said, if she were the one with this burden I suppose it would be fine to bash her about her lie then. He still has the qualities that she fell in love with. I just find her being so very vindictive for that long a pretty hideous thing. Maybe if he had married a sweeter person, that woman would have done the right thing by either divorcing him promptly, or stayed with him and gave him encouragement. We will never know.

[LisaL]

91. Apparently he didn't have any choice in the matter?

If he wanted to marry a "sweeter person" then he should have gone out and looked for that sweeter person.
As for divorce, it's a two way street.
He could have filed for divorce any time.

[pnwmom]

104. Or maybe the "right thing" would have been for him to be honest before entering his third marriage.

I find it unlikely that this was the first time he ever borrowed a wife's outfit. He was in his 40's when this happened.

[pnwmom]

98. And, as a man over 40 when he married her, he was old enough to know himself well

and should have been honest enough to share this with her before their marriage.

[Ms. Toad]

41. Wow. Have you spent anytime really talking to any trans* individual?

Particularly older trans* individuals often fight themselves for years before acknowledging that part of who they are to themselves; before they stop hoping that if they can just {fill in the blank} it will all go away. It is a HUGE step from there to telling even one other person.

My high school sweetheart transitioned a couple of years ago. We're 40+ years out of high school. She knew about herself before we started dating when we were 14-ish. For a high school couple we were extraordinarily close. In hindsight it played a huge role in both how close we were - and in how abruptly she ended our relationship. But she never even hinted about it at the time - even though we talked deeply about nearly everything.

She told me about 4 years ago. She's married - she has been for around 30 years. She didn't tell her wife until shortly before she told me (I was the second non-trans* person she told). She wasn't deliberately keeping something from her wife - she was just convinced that she would never be able to live as a woman, that she owed it to her wife to be the man her wife married, and she would have to just get by until she died.

She is one of the lucky ones - although she already had a suicide plan when I met her when we were 12, it was more theoretical than an option she was likely to execute. But it says a lot that for 90% of her life she has known how she would end it if just getting by became overwhelmingly hard. And 41% of trans* individuals attempt suicide.

So it is insultingly trivializes how hard it is to share that part of who you are to describe it as "a penchant," and to condemn someone for how long they wait before they tell their significant other - it is often a matter of life and death, and life often means keeping quiet until you just can't contain it any longer.

The good news, for my dear friend, is that once she transitioned she is far happier than I have ever known her. It is such a joy to be able to celebrate all of who she is!

[LostOne4Ever]

44. +infinity (nt)

[merrily]

48. I've spent time talking to gay people, straight people whom gay people married without disclosure

and the kids of gay people. And I conclude that the spouse and prospective Dad or Mom is owed the truth, both before marriage and before conception. And, if someone feels they cannot disclose the truth about anything of importance before either of those two points, maybe they should not get married.

In any case, I believe both parties to a marriage and/or to a conception have a right to the truth about all material matters, including cross dressing, gender identity and orientation. Your opinion and experience may differ, but I suggest that might be looking it from only one POV.

[Ms. Toad]

67. It is really not as simple as just concealing the truth.

I don't know Bruce Jenner's journey (Note - I'm using Bruce and male pronouns because I have not seen any request from Bruce to do otherwise.) But I know enough of the journeys of many trans* individuals to know that the point at which there is a truth to tell may well not have been before the marriage.

My foster son identified as lesbian at the time he married his wife. The process of coming to identify as male was long and painful. He became my foster son during college following a suicide attempt, when he needed someone to act as in loco parentis with respect to the college and hospital he was taken to. He stayed with us for around six months after being hospitalized, both to be close to college, and to be away from his family - to whom is lesbian identity was troubling. I spent many nights listening to him wrestle with emotional health - none of which included wrestling with gender identity. At the time, the key to maintaining emotional stability seemed to be medication. I also spent many nights listening to the hollow metallic thuds as he banged his head against the support posts in our basement. He explained at the time that it was a way of making the emotional pain physical, because physical pain was easier to deal with. But more about that later.

Later, and with less intimate involvement on my part, he wrestled for years with drug and alcohol addiction.

And still later, he showed up in binders and shared his new male name to me - then rushed very quickly from my perspective (around 6 months) into hormones and top surgery. When I expressed my concerns about how quickly he was moving, I got a more complete picture of his process. From my perspective, looking in for more than a decade, he had been flinging himself headlong into "the" solution for what ailed him - and, for a while, as long as it was bright and shiny, it worked. I was afraid for him because this next in a series of solutions was permanent.

What I learned in that discussion, though, was that the head banging was an attempt to silence a male voice in his head. He didn't identify it, at the time, as his own voice. Same story with the chemical treatment and the drowning it out with drugs and alcohol. So it was years from some internal male presence to being able to name it as his gender identity - and in that time he got married and he and his wife adopted children. He didn't lie about it to her - it was just not something that was a truth. Until it was. And at the point it became a truth he was already married.

As I said, I don't know Bruce's journey - he has not shared it publicly yet. But just because his wife found him wearing her clothes doesn't mean he lied about anything going into the marriage. It may just not even have been a truth to him yet. And you can't tell what isn't true to you.

And yes, there are some similarities to being lesbian (as I am), but it is orders of magnitude more complex and difficult. So no, just talking to lesbian or gay individuals doesn't really give you a glimpse into the trans* experience.

[merrily]

83. I posted about failure to disclose material info to a prospective spouse or conception partner.

I never said anyone lied.

[Ms. Toad]

92. Your words: "if someone feels they cannot disclose the truth"

"I believe both parties to a marriage and/or to a conception have a right to the truth about all material matters"

Your assumed, in condemning Bruce Jenner's failure to tell his wife about his "penchant" for cross dressing, or more, is that he knew the truth and felt he could not disclose it, or felt his future wife and children did not have a right to know.

My point is:

But I know enough of the journeys of many trans* individuals to know that the point at which there is a truth to tell may well not have been before the marriage.

There is a difference between failing to disclose material information - and not being aware there was anything material to disclose (or, at a minimum, not being able to articulate whatever was going on).

[merrily]

93. Exactly. Disclosure. Failing to disclose does not equal lying.

It can leave a false impression. It can be deceptive. However lying is making an affirmative statement that is untrue. Disclosure is different from that. If you can't see that, you can't.

Jenner may not have known "THE" truth, but he knew he'd don women's clothing, and he did not disclose that. (Assuming this radaronline story is even true, which I do not assume.) and I do think the time to make material disclosures is before marriage and before conception, because otherwise the other person cannot make any kind of informed decision. There is not only one journey or one life involved. Both people involved have a right to material information about the people they marry and conceive with. Any material info, not only orientation or identity. You have strong reasons for the way you feel and so do I. If you disagree, then we disagree.

[Ms. Toad]

94. My point is there may be no material information to disclose.

You leaped to the assumption that because his wife discovered him wearing her clothes that he always did so - or at least did so before their marriage (and - going a step farther - that he knew he identified as a woman - and should have disclosed it).

It is that leap you are making that knowing something in the present, means you knew it and should have disclosed it before you married someone that I am challenging. It is often not that simple.

[pnwmom]

103. And you're assuming that he lived intimately with at least two other women (his other wives)

and, in his 40's, had never tried cross-dressing.

I just find it hard to believe that a man who is transsexual -- who has always felt he was a woman -- wouldn't have tried crossdressing in one or both of his other marriages, or between them.

[Ms. Toad]

115. I am assuming nothing about him, specifically.

I am rejecting the assumption that based on his age, or prior marriages he knew. I'm also sharing the experiences of people whose journeys I know intimately who truly didn't know as early as outsiders looking in might have thought they should know - to provide a glimpse into why the assumptions being made by people condemning him for not disclosing may not be correct.

[pnwmom]

120. I've only known one couple like this.

The transwoman didn't "know" at the time they got married, but she knew long before she was 40.

But I'm not talking even as much about what Jenner "knew" about herself. I just doubt that someone who so deeply feels she is a woman had never tried cross-dressing before, in all the years she was married to women. And even a cross-dresser who doesn't consider himself transexual should still tell a prospective spouse. The spouse shouldn't have to find out by walking in on him trying on her clothing.

And I'm not "condemning" him. I believe it was wrong for him to marry her without telling her, but everyone makes mistakes.

[Ms. Toad]

126. You still have assumptions in there that Jenner has not yet shared.

There has been no announcement about gender - so I don't know that Jenner identifies as a woman, much less "so deeply feels she is a woman."

You are also assuming that the because the woman you know was self-aware before age 40, that all trans* individuals are. That is not necessarily the case.

As to whatever one chooses to wear - an issue I have been avoiding responding to because I felt it more important to address the assumptions necessarily being made by people who insist that Jenner should have told his wife (without any apparent understanding that his self-awareness may have occurred before he was married.

So - as to that issue, I find the idea that the clothes one enjoys wearing need to be disclosed to a spouse if it is a male wearing female clothing a bit troubling. No one would suggest that a woman who enjoys wearing her husband's clothing needs to disclose this before marriage. If it is just clothing, it should not be a big deal - and treating it as a big deal of it because it is a male wearing female clothing, rather than vice versa seems a bit misogynistic.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

128. If a woman is wearing her husband's clothing to look like a man

then, yes, many husbands might find that troubling, as well.

Everything I understand about crossdressing is that the person assumes the identity of the opposite sex by wearing the clothes. It's not a permanent thing - just something done at various times. When a man wears a woman's dress, dons a wig, and wears makeup, and wants to pass for a woman when in public, I would call him a cross dresser.

And, yes, I would be extremely turned off by a man who was a cross dresser, and feel that I would have a right to know. I don't think I would be bigoted if a friend told me that he was a cross dresser, but attraction is a different issue.

And since Jenner is developing breasts, I think he is definitely identifying as a woman which is different than crossdressing.

[Ms. Toad]

133. You are presuming you understand the motivation.

Wanting to look like a woman, or wanting to pass as a woman, even temporarily, is far from the only reason some men enjoy wearing women's clothing. Many of the men i know who wear women's clothing do it for reasons unrelated to wanting to pass as a woman. Two I have heard frequently are enjoying the freedom of skirts, and the fabric of undergarments designed for women.

Clothing, alone, is a pretty superficial thing to get bent out of shape about. Would you think you had the right to know your husband liked bow ties, rather than regular ties before you married him? If he suddenly popped up occasionally wearing a bow tie after you'd been turned on by him wearing regular ties for years you might suddenly be really turned off?

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

135. If a guy is wearing a wig and makeup, he's a cross dresser

and wants to look like a woman. I would not want to be married to a man who wants to pass as a woman, even if it is only an occasional thing. And a man can enjoy the fabrics that women wear without donning a wig, makeup, and heels.

That would be a turnoff for me, and there is nothing wrong with my feelings. There is nothing appealing about imagining my husband dressed as a woman while we're having sex.

And if cross dressing is so superficial, he doesn't really have to do it. Does he?

But...maybe it isn't so superficial and is an integral part of him? In which case, that's not the kind of man I'm attracted to.

[Ms. Toad]

138. Or he likes the way he looks and feels in make-up.

Why do you insist those things belong exclusively to women - and that anyone donning them must want to look like a woman - or wants to pass as a woman?

(I'm not saying that no male wearing what is traditionally identified as women's garb wants to look like, or pass as a woman. just that it is not universally the reason for dressing that way.)

So don't imagine him dressed as a woman when you're having sex - but so what if (when you're not having sex) he enjoys wearing skirts or heels? Does every single thing he does or wears have to turn you on?

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

139. sigh

No, not everything is about sex.

And you insist on bringing up men who like to wear an item of women's clothing, whereas I am talking about men who fully crossdress with makeup, wig, and heels. And, no, I don't want to be in a relationship with a man who walks out of the house looking like a woman every now and then. What is so difficult to understand about that?

You are judging what "I" want in a relationship, and what "I" want is no more right or wrong than anyone else. Get off your high horse and stop being judgmental.

[Ms. Toad]

143. Now you've added even more to the scenario under discussion.

“Kris had come home from early from a playdate with the kids, and she walked in on Bruce in one of her dresses. She was absolutely stunned, and immediately shamed Bruce, and told him to never let it happen again.”

http://www.inquisitr.com/1827763/kris-jenner-reportedly-humiliated-bruce-for-years-after-finding-him-wearing-her-dresses/#r7wJvOwmGSKPG8H4.99

Not "wig, makeup, and heels"
Not "wants to look like a woman"
Not "wants to pass as a woman"
Not "assumes the identity of the opposite sex by wearing the clothes"
Not "wants to pass for a woman when in public"

You've jumped several steps beyond the physical scenario described, and attributed motives that no one intimately involved has yet attributed to the incident. I'm just trying to inject the reality that not every male who puts on his wife's dress falls into the very narrow description of cross dressing you are insisting is all that exists ("Everything I understand about crossdressing&quot .

You're the one who made it all about sex. ("I would be extremely turned off by a man who was a cross dresser," "That would be a turnoff for me," and There is nothing appealing about imagining my husband dressed as a woman while we're having sex.&quot

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

144. I replied to a message on this board that referenced "cross dressing"

Last edited Fri Feb 13, 2015, 03:35 PM - Edit history (2)

And you are being obtuse if you don't think that "cross dressing" generally refers to men who dress to look like women.

I suggest you visit crossdressers.com

Tricks to a SO's acceptance is enlightening.

The really sad thing is the wife who accepts the cross dressing for years, only to find out that he wants to live as a transgender woman, but still wants to be married. As you can read on the crossdresser's board, many of these men begin to cross dress more and more. In effect, the wife is married to a transgendered woman who hasn't had surgery.

And, yes, I know that woman. She tried to accept and accept and accept, but by the time he was dressing as a woman about 80 percent of the time, she left. She no longer felt like she was married to a man.

I have seen this happen, and I am not going down that road. Ever.

[merrily]

109. I agree. Of course, you cannot disclose what you genuinely do not know.

[pnwmom]

102. I think it might have been that simple.

You're right -- we don't know the details of their marriage and never will.

However, this was his third marriage, and he was in his forties. I think it is unlikely that this was the first time Jenner ever found himself drawn to wearing his wife's clothes. Maybe he hadn't yet identified as transgender, but he probably knew that he liked to dress as a woman. And he should have shared that with Kris before he married her. At his age, and with his experience, he should have known he would want to express himself in that way after his marriage to Kris. She deserved to know it, too.

But I'll say again -- this is just my opinion. We'll never know the truth about their marriage.

[Ms. Toad]

114. It isn't the details of his marriage that are at issue here.

It is the details of his process of self-discovery. I have not seen anything that even hints at that.

[pnwmom]

122. Hints at what? That the process took place over a long period of time? n/t

[Ms. Toad]

125. There is nothing in the reports I have seen about Jenner

prior to the story about his wife walking in on him. In other words, no hints about what was going on with him before that point. For all we know, based on what has been reported, Jenner could have been in such complete denial that this was his first exploration of wearing women's clothing.

The comments that "he should have told her before they married" are all based on the assumption that prior to his marriage he was aware enough of what he now knows that there was something to tell. My point is that you can't make that assumption.

[pnwmom]

127. You are right, of course. We don't know.

But I'm guessing one thing and you're guessing another, based on bits of things we've read and experiences we've had.

[Ms. Toad]

134. It is not that I am guessing another thing.

We will know his journey if and when he chooses to make it public. I'm not guessing at all - all I am doing is sharing that the journey of self-discovery can be a much more complex journey than what is being assumed by people scolding him for not having told his wife before they married.

[pnwmom]

136. And I guess I'm seeing it more from the unknowing spouse's point of view

as much as I dislike Kris Jenner.

People here often dismiss the kind of pain spouses can go through, if it feels like they were married in order to be the "beard."

[Ms. Toad]

137. Again - my entire point is that both parties may be unknowing.

I'm not saying that is the case all the time, or dismissing the pain the spouse feels. Just that particularly with older LGBT individuals, "knowing" is not necessarily simple or clear.

[pnwmom]

101. As the daughter of a gay father and straight mother, I agree.

If one of the members of a male/female couple knows or thinks he might be gay, they need to talk about it -- before the marriage.

[merrily]

108. I think that will happen a lot less, maybe end, now that people are feeling freer and freer

to be out, which is a great benefit to both spouses/parents of equal rights, gay pride, etc.

[pnwmom]

111. I do, too. And that's what I tell conservatives who are still against same sex marriage.

And what my elderly mother tells her friends. Marriage equality means everyone will be better off -- gay people who can marry the person of their choice; and the straight people who gay people won't feel forced to marry, just to fit into the world.

[merrily]

112. Everyone is better off when all people can flourish.

You cannot oppress whole segments of the population without having an adverse effect on both the oppressors and the oppressed and therefore on the entire society. Whoever is being oppressed, evil corrodes all of us.

[closeupready]

116. Wow, that really is a brilliant observation, merrily. Thanks.

[merrily]

117. Aw, thanks, closeupready. Made me blush, you did.

[pnwmom]

99. But he was over 40 when he married her -- old enough, I think, to realize

that he was going to be cross-dressing, and old enough to share that fact with the person he wanted to marry.

My father was in his early twenties when he married my mother, and probably didn't understand himself well enough to know that she couldn't "cure" him of his "desires" (although his priest apparently thought so). It caused her a great deal of pain when she finally found out -- after several children had tied them to each other. But I never blamed him for not telling her in the beginning because I don't think he even understood he was gay till much later.

But Jenner was in his forties and had already been married. He knew what he was doing, and he consciously decided not to tell Kris. According to the "insider" her reaction was over-the-top. But he shouldn't have married her in the first place.

[Ms. Toad]

113. Not necessarily.

He may have - but he also may not have. I know both lesbian and gay individuals who did not have any self-awareness until they were older than that (some of them married), and trans* individual. Nothing I have seen gives any information one way or another. The fact that he was in his 40s and previously married really has nothing to do with his self-discovery process. (Especially being married has nothing to do with gender identity - since gender identity has nothing to do with who you are attracted to, if your thinking is that he would have known based on prior sexual experience with women.)

[pnwmom]

123. I'm not thinking he would know based on prior sexual experience with women.

I think he was probably already cross-dressing when he married her, since this happened soon after their marriage. He might have thought cross-dressing was the extent of it. But even so he should have told her.

[get the red out]

56. I feel the same

If a person intends to marry someone, they need to be honest with that person or we can't condemn the other party for not being happy about it. Yea, I can't stand Kris Jenner either; but I don't like the idea that if the spouse isn't excited about suddenly discovering their mate's sexual identity isn't what they thought it was and reacts poorly, that they need to be condemned for it. People are human.

[damnedifIknow]

66. I applaud Bruce Jenner

As a person ages what people think about them becomes less and less important IMO. It's possible Bruce Jenner would have done anything to hide/deny his true feelings as a younger individual and then when he reached a certain age he just let it all rip. You only get one shot at this wild and crazy life so live it like you stole it.

[Ino]

79. Too bad he didn't live it...

before he embarked on not one, not two, but THREE marriages. One wonders what chance for real happiness he stole from those women while in his "doing anything to hide himself" phase, what they had to put up with.

[joshcryer]

95. Wow.

Just wow.

[pnwmom]

97. I agree. The same with being gay. You don't conceal this from a future spouse,

not if you're being honest and fair.

It's not like Jenner was a confused kid when he married her. By that age, he knew who he was, and he really should have shared it with her.

[Fred Sanders]

4. "The source" is busy these days.

[Myrina]

5. She can't have been surprised ...

Kartrashian, Nicole Brown Simpson and Jenner's first wife were all BFF's. Surely she knew what she was getting into.

[merrily]

49. Because an ex wife never lies?

If put to a choice between believing the man I loved and his ex wife, I'd probably believe the man I loved, even if that meant I was in denial.

That said, none of us really knows who did or did not say what to whom.

[Myrina]

81. No, because all of the families in that clique were tight as the thieves they are ...

... I'm sure they all knew about each other's extra curriculars (wink, nudge).

[merrily]

82. Who beside Jenner's wife had first hand knowledge, though? And we don't even know if she

had that knowledge while they were all supposedly tight. We don't know if this story is true. If it is, Kris Jenner was unaware of his cross dressing until she came home early one day. And even knowing about his cross dressing doesn't necessarily say he wanted to be a woman.

[LisaL]

90. Yes, cross-dresser men aren't necessarily transgender.

So, even assuming she knew early on in the marriage that he was cross-dresser, doesn't mean she knew he was transgender.

[muntrv]

6. Now I know why Brody hated Kris.

[big_dog]

7. Kris had been a fame whore for years before the OJ trials

when she saw how big the dream team got, it gave her ideas on how to pimp out her own kids

[obnoxiousdrunk]

8. Who is Brody ?

[big_dog]

9. Bruces son from an earlier marriage

I think he was on MTV's The Hills back in the day

[HappyMe]

10. Quite a while ago I watched their show on E ocassionally.

Kris tended to treat Bruce shabbily. Some of the things she said to him were cringe worthy. She comes across as a 'my way or the highway' and just plain mean.

[big_dog]

12. Kris is out for her and her younger daughters only

the rumour is that the older K's want no part of her anymore as momager

[merrily]

14. AFAIK, she is still their manager.

She's made them very rich, too.

[big_dog]

16. at least Kris hasn't destroyed Kendall's career as a model yet

its coming though...same pattern repeating itself

[merrily]

17. Funny you should mention that.

In the wee hours, I turned on On Demand, Fashion Police. Kris got dissed for attempting to upstage her daughter, who was walking the runway. Kris showed up at the show in sheer pants that apparently required her to carry her clutch purse in such a way as to cover her hoo hah.

[big_dog]

19. I cannot believe Kendall is the new face of Chanel 2015, are they really that desperate?

maybe KUWTK doesn't air in France.

[merrily]

22. Obviously I watch/listen to too much TV. However, I have heard designers say

that Kendall is very professional. Besides, her presence guarantees lots of press and consumer attention; and what brand doesn't want that?

[closeupready]

34. She is SO plain. Almost horse-y looking.

Yuck.

[Brigid]

69. And I'm sure you look like a supermodel.

I care nothing about celebrity gossip, but that comment was pure middle school. There is nothing at all wrong with how she looks.

[closeupready]

70. I may or may not, but I don't pretend to be; this one does, though

she does NOT look like a supermodel - she is very plain.

Further, it's shocking that you'd validate the paradigm that to suggest that a woman is not attractive is to imply that her worth is compromised, as a result.

Lastly, she got paid to put her physical appearance out there directly in the public's view. Nobody has to like her appearance just because she got paid.

[LanternWaste]

71. to you. A particular opinion I imagine, the industry finds irrelevant

"she does NOT look like a supermodel"... to you. A particular opinion I imagine the industry finds wholly irrelevant-- if they consider it at all.

No doubt, the industry crunched the numbers and decided their ROI far outweighed that of people whose opinions are decidedly ineffectual in this context.

[closeupready]

77. Great. Another member took ME to task for expressing my opinion.

I hope you can go back and read the chain of posts from the start. Thanks for your take on my comment.

[Brigid]

74. Be all that as it may . . .

Most of us stopped calling people "horse face" in middle school.

[closeupready]

78. Okay, thanks, Ms. English major. Done here. Peace.

[snooper2]

84. Okay to call McCain gramps though right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=867266


It is too easy

[Brigid]

85. This young lady did nothing more than appear in a magazine ad.

McCain, on the other hand, behaves like a grumpy old man when he could be an elder statesman. Plus, he did the unforgivable: He foisted Sarah Palin on us. Now who could resist a target like that?

[alp227]

129. Which is a good thing. It shows that even "average looks" = beautiful.

Less social stigma for those with "less than cover girl status" looks. People are people. Simple as that.

[big_dog]

76. that was my take as well Kendall is just so AVERAGE

there are 1,000 wanna be supermodel girls at Ford that are just like her

[LisaL]

88. I personally wouldn't mind looking that "plain."

But to each its own, I guess.

[smirkymonkey]

140. Seriously. They are really slumming it.

I just think all the women in that family are extremely hard looking. There is just something trashy about them. Ok, that's my catty bit for the day. I'm done.

[cwydro]

15. Trashy people. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. Anybody got any pictures of this circus troupe?

I wouldn't know one from another, although that may not be a bad thing.

I tend to not care much about these "celebs"

[big_dog]

20. they alway do an x-mas card, probably for $$

[TheCowsCameHome]

21. Thanks, it looks like

they're one short of a dozen.

Any ID's of who's who?

[Orangepeel]

59. I don't know them all, but I'll try

Grey dress is Kris Jenner, with Bruce behind her.

White dress is Kim Kardashian. This is obviously from before Kanye West and daughter North (yes, North West)

Orangey-dress with the ruffles is Khloe Kardashian. The man behind her is her husband. I think he's a basketball player, but that might have been a previous spouse.

Woman off to the side in the black suit is another Kardashian daughter (the eldest I think). Her name begins with a K, but I don't remember it. With her are husband (name I don't know) and son.

I believe the man sitting on steps is a Kardashian brother. I want to call him Rob, but wouldn't bet on it.

Young woman sitting and woman with gloves are Jenner daughters, Kendall and some other K name.

[truebluegreen]

23. I'm late to this thread. Is that the Addams Family?

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. Exactly. n/t

[NaturalHigh]

25. No...

The Addams Family was a lot of fun, and Morticia was hot. These people are a parody of humanity.

[Initech]

27. Well, to be fair, they are mysterious and spooky...

Actually I think they look more like the eccentric Collins Family from Dark Shadows, only thing missing is the vampire.

[truebluegreen]

119. You are right: Dark Shadows is a better fit,

but Kris is the vampire.

[Initech]

121. I stand corrected.

[Owl]

118. That was my first thought as well!

[DeadLetterOffice]

31. Good gods who dresses those people?

Although I kinda dig the emo-Vampira look on the left...

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. The Adams Family's tailor? Or the costume designer from True Blood?

[Ex Lurker]

33. Good Lord NT

[closeupready]

36. How I loathe Kris Jenner.

[Ilsa]

39. Looks like an ad for Cosmetic surgery...

Boobs, facelifts, and whatever else they've had carved up. Phony appearances, shallow values.

[stillwaiting]

52. What a bunch of assholes. So much ego and pretension. nt

[smirkymonkey]

141. Oh god, that's horrifying.

[Dorian Gray]

29. I believe that her reaction

was mostly superficial, though I do believe it would be difficult for a woman or man married to someone who held a secret about their identity like that.

I understand why he did. It's a difficult thing to come to terms with in our society. I am glad that we are learning more about the trans-community, and I am pleased to see that people are starting to be respected rather than denigrated. But Bruce Jenner was an athlete. He rose to fame in the 80s. I can see why this is difficult for him. I can also see why it would be difficult for his spouse.

But here we have a case where the spouse is an unlikable fame-whore who sold out her entire family to make a buck. That's got to make the whole thing more complicated.

[whathehell]

35. Thank you..

If Bruce wanted to marry a woman again, he should have told her beforehand. Blaming it all on the opposite sex

spouse is both unfair and unrealistic.

[LisaL]

37. How is one supposed to react after finding out your husband believes he is a woman?

Maybe that's something he should have brought up before marriage, no?

[MadrasT]

42. It seems just as odd to me that anybody would be upset about it.

I wouldn't have batted an eye if my husband had wanted to wear dresses, or revealed he identified as a woman.

Why is it such a big deal?

[get the red out]

61. Why

Why do we, rightly (as liberal people), not expect gay people or trans people to hide their identity and pretend; but a straight woman is expected to basically become a lesbian if her husband comes out as trans, or she's just "making a big deal out of it"?

[whathehell]

107. Exactly..

It's an unreasonable expectation, to put it mildly.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

131. Then maybe your attraction is more fluid than many folks

Having more fluid attraction isn't a good or bad thing. It is what it is. Same for less fluid attraction. Or maybe sexuality and sex aren't a big deal for you.

I would be completely turned off if I saw my husband wearing a wig, mascara, lipstick, sexy female undies, and a dress.

There's nothing morally wrong with the above, but it's not at all what I want in a spouse.

[LostOne4Ever]

45. Maybe accept her for who she is- a loved one? (nt)

[HappyMe]

54. I would imagine that the reaction should have

included divorce long before they stayed married for 22 damn years. It isn't as if she was packed into a crappy 2 bedroom apartment with a bunch of kids. She had plenty of money from her first husband.

If the shoe was on the other foot, and Kris was wearing Bruce's clothes, it would be okay for Bruce to shame Kris for all those years, right?

Kris has raised being vindictive to an art form.

[LisaL]

87. She did have a bunch of kids before she married Jenner.

And two with Jenner, I believe.

[whathehell]

58. Thank you as well..

At minimum, I'd be, um, surprised.

[joshcryer]

96. That's certainly an understandable reaction.

But there are plenty of stories of people being a lot more kind about it. It sucks but it happens. We're not a post-LGBT society by a long shot, there are still areas of the country where people are forced to be closeted their whole lives lest they lose everything they hold dear. It sucks but that's how it is.

[polly7]

43. Why didn't she divorce him if she was so shamed?

He was probably very afraid himself and possibly unsure how to deal with his feelings. If she didn't want to help him ..... she had every opportunity to divorce him? I absolutely know why many abused women stay in a relationship, she wasn't being abused - she had a very easy choice and imo it all hinged on greed.

[LisaL]

89. Why didn't he divorce her?

If she was shaming him, that is?

[polly7]

100. Have you considered the possibility he was trying to fight any feelings he had

and live the life she wanted him to because he loved her?

How was she shaming him? Who said that?

[LostOne4Ever]

46. Has Bruce Jenner confirmed this yet? (nt)

[tavernier]

47. I am proud to say

that I wouldn't know any of the Kardashians if I ran into them face to face.

Even watching Chumley on Pawn Stars is more educational: At least he has a vast knowledge of video games and tennis shoes.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. At His Size and Frame. . .

. . .he fit into her clothes? Something odd about this "revelation".

[jmowreader]

75. I was thinking the same thing

[pnwmom]

105. Good point. Maybe this "insider" is just a friend trying to do him a favor. n/t

[melman]

51. This is radaronline

Come on.

[GreatGazoo]

64. "hurt the Kardashian empire" -- a media frenzy about an Olympic athlete having a sex change fits

perfectly with their lip plumping, boobie inflating circus.

Hard to tell what the real story is here but if Bruce Jenner wanted to come out publicly as transgendered there were many opportunities to do so. Marriage is work and the first job is finding out as much as you can about the other person BEFORE you tie that knot. If there is something they don't want to talk about ask MORE questions. Intimacy is honesty.

[Major Nikon]

68. The hubris of Kris is pretty impressive

She never seemed to accomplish much on her own other than giving birth to a daughter who got famous by giving a blowjob to someone else who was famous. She should thank Jenner every single day for lending his celebrity to her.

[Egnever]

72. Amazing this story comes out now

Just in time to build interest for the reality tv show. Excuse me for not buying into the BS.

[Catherine Vincent]

80. Tabloid at it's finest!

[McCamy Taylor]

86. Isn't she famous because her daughter made a sex tape?

I think the Kardashian "empire" will do just fine.

[pnwmom]

106. Kris is an obnoxious person, so this "insiders" comment is easy to believe.

However, I still think Bruce, in his 40's and approaching his third marriage, probably knew himself well enough to know that cross-dressing was something he was drawn to. And he should have shared that information with her before the marriage.

Everyone would have been happier in the long run

[Initech]

124. Kris is addicted to wealth, fame, and material bullshit. Kind of sad.

And it's kept Bruce from living the life he wants to. I can see why he wanted to get out of that toxic relationship.

[pnwmom]

132. The question is why he wanted to marry her. Couldn't he have found someone less toxic?

It's not like he didn't have anything going for him.

[LynneSin]

142. Again I am sticking with my comment - 'Has Bruce Jenner officially said anything'

Not one credible news source has an office comment from Bruce Jenner stating if this is true. I've seen a UK site that had quotes from the mother but it was just another gossip rag so who knows. You'd think if someone like Bruce Jenner, who once won the Decatholon at the Olympics, was to transition to female, this would be a bigtime headline in all the major networks. Instead it's nothing more than these online rag-sites with 'unnamed sources' talking about how stressed out Kris Kardashian is over the shock of what her ex-husband is doing.

Newsflash. Kris Kardashian is a publicity-whore (sorry, only word I can use but I put a '-' in there with publicity so you know it is only associated with that word). She is the master manipulate at keeping her family's name at the top of the headline news for all the entertainment news rag sites and cover of the gossip magazines. You want to know who those 'unnamed sources' are? They were probably Kris herself. Most of those rag websites and magazines get their best gossip tips directly from the sources they write the reports about. What better way to get revenge on an ex-husband than to trash him in the media.

Now having said this, it doesn't mean there is anything wrong IF the story happens to be true and Jenner is transitioning. Honestly if it is happening it is a personal choice and I can see why Jenner might not want to share this story with the public after years of having his (or her) life front and center from that crappy show Kris and her brood did for years.

But personally I think this article shouldn't be in general discussion but the entertainment section of DU. It is nothing more than gossip and heresay. When Bruce is ready to share his story we will listen until then don't buy into any bullshit coming from anyone with the last name of Kardashian.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

145. Well, there are photos of him

with obvious breasts, and he is dressing more and more like a woman...or at least somewhat androgynous.

I don't follow any of that clan, and I don't think I've ever watched reality tv, unless you consider a few episodes of American Idol to be reality tv.

[LynneSin]

146. Photos can be photoshopped

I don't really watch reality TV but then again I don't have Cable TV. But I've read enough Kitty Kelly books to know that the greatest source of items to gossip rags can be the actual person who is being 'gossiped' about in the article. Celebrities tend to be those 'unnamed sources' in the articles because they know those gossip rags (both at the grocery stores and now online) are the greatest resources to keep your name in the news. And when you are a no-talent clan like the Kardashians (because seriously, other than one of them making a sex tape, what has any of them actually ever done), how else can you explain their popularity?

But again, this isn't to say Bruce isn't becoming transgendor or I have some issue against it. I just think that it's odd that Bruce seems to not want to talk about it and the only source of this information is his ex-wife, her family and gossip websites, a family that thrives on being a constant headline on those gossip websites.

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

147. I agree it is odd

although I've read that he is keeping quite so that people will watch the show. Being attention whores and getting paid for reality tv does not preclude Jenner from being transgender.

But...my god, what a train wreck of a family.

[LynneSin]

149. Oh I agree

I mean he allowed this to happen to his family so he is just as accountable and maybe he is the unnamed sources feeding these websites. So trust me, it's not like that hasn't factored into all of this.

But in the end with I consider all what a normal, not-outted, transgender person is going through, I would think that person is going through alot of turmoil and when they are ready to let others know they will speak for themselves and let those people know about what is happening. And for those of us not in the loop it isn't for us to decide 'Are they or are they not' but be respectful to the choices made of the person in question.

[Egnever]

148. Oh bullshit

This is hype for the reality show. You can't take this crap seriously.