Zimmerman did not outweigh Martin by 100lbs....

[AzWorker]

in fact it may not even be 25lbs

How many times were we bombarded with that "100lbs" figure?

Zimmerman did not use a racial slur either

Why can't we debate the facts of the case? Why do folks have to make things up?

[cali]

1. sure. let's talk about that

how does that change anything? Trayvon was walking to his dad's home with candy and iced tea. Zimmerman was packing. Zimmerman followed Trayvon even after he was cautioned by the police not to do so. In addition, it's worth noting that Zimmerman had a history of impulsive violence.

That clear things up a bit for you?

[AzWorker]

3. All that matters...

...is why Zimmerman used deadly force.

Thats how justification works in a deadly force incident.

[cali]

4. I think it matters who started the confrontation. That would be Zimmerman.

And frankly, I there's no indication other than Zimmerman's word (a known liar) that Trayvon attack him. And it beggars belief that he would. You want to defend someone who murdered an unarmed teenager? Feel free. But don't think you'll get a lot of support here.

[AzWorker]

5. The prosecutors even said....

....they did not know who started the physical confrontation.

I am not 'defending' anyone, I am trying to sort fact from fiction, thats important to do when a criminal trial is at stake. Would you rather we make assumptions and rush to judgement like Zimmerman is accused of doing?

You say I won't find support for seeking the truth here?

[cali]

8. your op is entirely slanted in favor of Zimmerman so don't hand me any

dogshit about how you're seeking some fabulous "truth".

sort fact from fiction, my ass. I gave you fact and YOU fucking ignored it.

[vaberella]

15. There are a lot them around...aren't they. n/t

[Quixote1818]

90. What is it about this case that brings out all wing nuts?

They really don't like it that a black family might get some justice I guess. The kid threw a punch or two at a nut case who was following him and got blown away and it's the dead person's fault.

[vaberella]

92. No...the thing is they don't want to admit there is a race problem in America.

Shit even Cantor stated there are Xenophobes in the Republican party. But wingnuts want a free pass to say and do as their please so they discount and snuff anything that may show race to be a major factor. Many of them aren't even wingnuts...there are many White Dems who don't want to made to feel 'guilty'.... They tend to feel that race is not a factor either and that economics is the real issue and some of us might be to quick to run on the race angle.

Unfortunately race is an issue rarely talked about and quickly ignored if it can be.

[Webster Green]

12. I heard the kid yelling for help on the 911 call.

Zimmerman stalked him and shot him because zimmerman is paranoid and he's a control freak.

If the prosecutors heard the call that I heard, and say they still don't know who started the confrontation, they are fucking dense, or they are lying.

The truth is pretty fucking obvious. I doubt he will be convicted though, because the police protected the killer, rather than doing a proper investigation of the crime scene.

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

20. Well-you answered your own question really

you can't figure out anything unless you know the facts-and you don't know the facts just the same as everybody else.

Fact is it shouldn't have happened-but it did.

Now here is the thing- you can fallow the media every day looking for facts-or you can simply wait for the facts to come out in the trial.

On the weight thing- reports have it George Zimmerman weighs about 180 -190- and Trayvon Martin weighed about 160 .

But is the weight thing an issue that you know of for a fact-or is it a media hyped thing?

It's about guns.
It shouldn't have happened.

It is a matter of law now-not public opinion or outrage.

Your imput should be welcome and I really don't understand what their problem is.

But I can tell you this- not one of them will serve on the jury.

And the jury will decide if the shooting was unjustifiable or not.

If George zimerman had not had that gun on his person- what we do know is he will gone about his security thing in a very different way.

But-the law is what it is and he had and used his gun.

Now it is up to the court to sort out the facts.Not the media or public opinion-but the law.

[xoom]

119. Are you sure it is about guns?

So lets say the law is changed, is it going to stop a criminal from committing the same crime?

This is a case where the law was broken by someone who followed most laws. Criminals who do not follow the law kill people with stolen guns, big difference for a gun issue.

Edit:spelling

[Wash. state Desk Jet]

123. I think you answered your own question,

it's about guns.

[FarLeftFist]

105. It was Trayvon who was standing his ground in self-defense.

[Angry Dragon]

106. +5696

[xoom]

118. You know this how??

[Drahthaardogs]

51. No, no, no, and no again.

Zimmerman is going to be found negligent, because he was. His actions are exactly what they train you NOT to do in the police academy (I was a park ranger during the summer for years during undergraduate and grad school). He had no authority to detain, depose, or basically interfere with this kid. If you suspect something, you sit quietly in your vehicle and observe until back up arrive. The police told him to stop and he did not.

You cannot and will not be able to judge this in the vacuum of why did Zimmeran use deadly force. Because Martin may have thought HE was defending himself from Zimmerman. I know if I was walking down the street and someone is following me, and trying to confront me, I am going to think I might have to defend myself.

Zimmerman is in deep deep trouble.

[jpak]

126. Hunting Trayvon down and shooting when Tayvon was doing nothing wrong is a crime

Racist vigilante apologist fail

yup

[tsuki]

129. My friends and I have always wondered.

Did he approach with a drawn gun, or was it concealed? Did he have a concealed permit? No one I've talked to seems to know.

[Politicalboi]

2. The media released Zimmerman's mug shot

From a few years back, and he was overweight then. He would have outweighed Trayvon 50 to 100 pounds at that time. We hadn't seen the coward for a while to see he lost weight.

[malaise]

6. Who fugging cares

he stalked an unarmed teenager and killed him.

[AzWorker]

9. stalked?

The timeframes involved don't appear to support that.

If Martin had continued to 'run' as Zimmerman characterized him as doing, he would have made it back to his dad's girlfriends house loooong before Zimmerman even hung up with the dispatcher.

Reports have indicated that the incident happened about 35 yards from Zimmermans vehicle. That would be one weird slow motion chase...

[cali]

11. Yes, stalked. by his OWN admission. duh.

[AzWorker]

14. Where does.....

....Zimmerman say he "stalked" Martin?

[vaberella]

17. The dispatcher asked him...are you following him...

and he replied yes. So yeah...by his own admission.

Further more...I'm a bit off by your statement. If Zimmerman feared that something was wrong with the boy. He even said the boy looks to be on drugs and he's carrying something... but he doesn't know what. The dispatcher tells him to not follow. Why would you still go after the boy? I mean what logical thinking person would persue someone who might be dangerous and carrying a deadly weapon unless you want to start something. If I didn't know the person, and I felt he was on drugs and looked to be dangerous and could be carrying something dangerous...I do not put myself in a situation where I am near this person.

The mere FACT that Zimmerman persued (if stalked is not to your liking) Trayvon...that says to me that he is was looking for a confrontation.

[AzWorker]

21. Hows about...

we use "follow" since that accurately describes what was said.

"stalk" and "persue" in this instance are just twisting words to make them more inflamatory, save that for closing arguments, we are seeking facts.

So it appears that 1:30 elapsed from when GZ said "he ran" to when he hung up with the dispatcher...and then it was about two minutes until the 911 calls started pouring in.

I just have to wonder why Martin did not make it to the residence he was visiting in that minute and a half that GZ was on the phone....especially since he was running. An athletic 6'+ kid can make some distance in that time. The estimated 100m to the residence should have been easy, he could have walked slow and made it in that time.

[Fumesucker]

24. How do we know Martin was running again?

I'm old and details don't stick in my head very well any more..

[vaberella]

28. Zimmerman said so to the dispatcher...however Trayvon Martin's girlfriend says he WAS NOT running.

And she was on the phone with Trayvon up until he was shot.

[Fumesucker]

31. Thank you for refreshing my memory..

Evidently in the opinion of the OP then Zimmerman's statement is an undisputed fact.

I wonder why the OP might take that position?

[vaberella]

37. It does make you wonder...doesn't it. n/t

[broiles]

38. Could we have another troll? Low #of posts.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

40. "Zimmerman's statement is an undisputed fact"... not just the OP's opinion.

Well, under the SYG statues and the burden of proof resting on the prosocution.... Zimmerman's statement is what stands until the prosocution proves otherwise. Zimmerman does not have to prove his case but rather the prosocution must debunk it (with evidence).

[vaberella]

44. The girlfriend is evidence one. Zimmerman's own faulty claims past and present another. n/t

[magical thyme]

63. actually, that is not true. SYG changes those rules somewhat.

Legal experts, including Fl experts, quoted in the news a few days back stated that Zimmerman will pretty much have to take the stand to testify why he felt in fear of his life. He will have to get up there and justify the killing.

The prosecution will have to debunk Zimmerman's word, because that is the only evidence Zimmerman has of his fear. Zimmerman's word is already in serious trouble because his story under oath does not match his story in the police record. It also doesn't match what eye witnesses have said on tv (although we don't know that those eye witnesses are real and usable).

[vaberella]

27. Fine...FOLLOW

Because the boy was on the phone with his girlfriend. He tells his girlfriend he's not running and continues his liesurely walk when he doesn't see Zimmerman behind him. Athletic or not when your chillin' with your friend on the phone and or someone is cracking jokes or telling a story you take pauses. I know I do. I could be a block from my house that takes me 30 seconds to get too but if I'm on the phone with my friend that can turn into a 5 minute walk. Why is that hard to believe if he was talking to his girlfriend. I don't see the big deal. If I don't think someone is "following" me I continue on as I was doing before. However Zimmerman actually cuts him off at the second impasse which is on the map.

Why do you keep pushign this shit that the kid was RUNNING?! Zimmerman CLAIMS the boy is running. But the girlfriend who was on the phone with Trayvon the ENTIRE time says no he was not running and she heard the altercation. Trayvon's and her phone records prove that her testimony is legitimate. He could have run initially when he sees a weirdo looking at him but when he turned the corner and didn't see Zimmerman he slowed down. However his girlfriend said NO, he WAS NOT running.

Further more...I am totally disgusted by your statements. Your making the victim out to be the criminal. It had to be Trayvon Martin who did something wrong and not Zimmerman.

[CatWoman]

30. It is fucking disgusting, isn't it?

as are all the Zimmerman Apology Tour threads

[vaberella]

32. It is and it's even worse when they use Zimmerman's claims as gold.

The man who claimed the boy, who was on the phone, looked to be on drugs; and painted Trayvon Martin out to be a deranged weirdo and possible criminal. The same man who clearly passed judgement and cited "these assholes always get away" ---there for calling Trayvon Martin, someone he did not know and made conclusions about an asshole. Thirdly the man who even lied at his own bail hearing by saying that he thought Trayvon was just a few years younger than him (as though that justified his actions)...but said to the dispatcher he looked to be in his late teens --- which he was actually right about for once --but then later does a Romney.. This is a man who's words should be taken with a grain of salt--especially when it comes to the crime he committed.

I'm appalled his words are given such weight. Aside from the criminalization of the victim. These people are not looking for the truth. They are defending the undefensible. Tell me you are awaiting all the evidence and take doubt with some things on both sides; I can respect that. But when I see the continuous bias tilt in support of Zimmerman I see a whole different angle and approach.

[malaise]

35. Well said

[ellenfl]

91. where's the map? i've been looking for one. tia eom

[vaberella]

95. Here is the link of the main site and the final edited map.

http://bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/

[ellenfl]

127. thank you! eom

[HiPointDem]

111. you can hear zimmerman breathing hard on the tape. he's not only following the kid, he's running

after him.

if someone was following me, and i started running & they started running too, i'd pretty much think they had bad intentions. especially at dusk or later. & if i was strong enough and close enough i'd punch the fucker too.

but all you want to talk about is why martin didn't make it home when you think he should have. the asshole was following him, yes, *stalking* him, with a gun. and he killed him. and now he's hiding like the punk he is, having people lie for him.

maybe martin didn't get home on your timetable because a fucking psycho was stalking him. maybe he didn't want a fucking psycho to know where his relatives lived.

zimmerman was *stalking* him, for no reason at all except he was a fucking psycho.

[csziggy]

112. According to Trayvon Martin's cell phone records he was on the phone

With his girlfriend. Those records are at http://media.nbcbayarea.com/documents/call+log.pdf and the girlfriend's interviews indicate that he was on the phone with her during that last call from 7:12 to 7:16. It is not clear if T-Mobile rounds times up or down for the beginning of a call or for the amount of time on a call so these times could be off by as much as 30 seconds. Trayvon probably thought he was safe, in between the townhouses, out of sight of the weirdo in the SUV who had been watching him, and was hanging out, talking to his girl.

According to the dispatcher log of Zimmerman's call that night at 7:11:59 the dispatcher entered "subj now running towards back entrance of complex" and right after that asks Zimmerman if he's following and tells him , "Ok, we don't need you to do that." The log was on the Sanford website as 911callhistory.pdf but they've removed everything now - some media source should have it, it is the record of all 46 calls Zimmerman made over the years. That call ended at 7:13:41.

The first 911 call - the one that screams can be heard from the very beginning - came in at 7:16:11. That means that only seconds had passed between the end of the girlfriend's call and when people hearing the noise outside became concerned enough to call 911.

The screams on that call continue for over 40 seconds and stopped at the instance the gunshot is heard.

So we know what Trayvon was doing for that time - he was talking to his girlfriend:

"He said this man was watching him, so he put his hoodie on. He said he lost the man," Martin's friend said. "I asked Trayvon to run, and he said he was going to walk fast. I told him to run, but he said he was not going to run."

Eventually, he would run, said the girl, thinking that he'd managed to escape. But suddenly the strange man was back, cornering Martin.

"Trayvon said, 'What are you following me for,' and the man said, 'What are you doing here.' Next thing I hear is somebody pushing, and somebody pushed Trayvon because the head set just fell. I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

The line went dead. Besides screams heard on 911 calls that night as Martin and Zimmerman scuffled, those were the last words he said.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-arrest-now-abc-reveals-crucial-phone/story?id=15959017#.T5Y7r9lOKHc

Now what the hell was George Zimmerman doing for the two minutes and twenty seconds after he got off the phone with SPD? Even if you believe the story that his father and brother told about him looking for an address, the farthest he would have walked in that version would have taken him about one minute. We know from the results of that night that he was following Trayvon, so he had over a minute unaccounted for.

We have a witness for what Trayvon was doing. We have no witness for Zimmerman. Where was George for that last minute before the 911 calls started?

[Daalalou]

113. Thank you!

That's what I've been thinking as well. Trayvon was on the phone until just before the altercation started. So many Z defenders ask why Trayvon hadn't arrived home, and I think it's either because he wanted more time to talk to his girl, or he was worried about a stalker following him home where he would be alone with his younger soon-to-be stepbrother, as their parents had gone out to dinner.

But meanwhile, those same Z defenders will argue that he did listen to the dispatcher and stopped chasing Trayvon, and was returning to his truck. But if that was the case, why hadn't he arrived at his truck yet? He had a full three minutes to get back there. Yet not only was he not back at his truck, he was closer to Trayvon's home.

Wonder if AZWorker has an answer for that.

[coalition_unwilling]

122. OT somewhat, but reading this transcript just now made me start tearing up

for his girlfriend:

"I called him again, and he didn't answer the phone."

Wow. Just so friggin' sad.

[ananda]

60. Zimmerman was a crazed racist stalker.

That's the plain truth.

It's just not phrased in whitenice language.

[Life Long Dem]

116. Correct.

The dispatcher said are you "following"him, not, are you stalking him.

[vaberella]

13. Zimmerman made a lot of claims.

He also said during his bail hearing that he didn't know the boy was a teenager, he thought the boy was just a bit younger than him. While he even told the dispatcher that he believed Martin to be a teenager.

The timeframe actually supports the boys' girlfriend who said that Trayvon did NOT run and said he would not run. She said he clearly said he wouldn't run. So I would take a break from all the things Zimmerman has claimed.

[malaise]

16. Stalked n/t

[GOPonziconz]

26. Like to see how you respond if that was your kid! Zimmerman admitted

stalking Trayvon and he started to chase the kid when police clearly told him not to do that! He started to run, even out of breath as he chased a kid that didn't know what the hell the guy was up to!

Zimmerman didn't identify himself or say he was armed! And he had no business chasing anyone! The idiot always wanted to be a cop so that's the roll he was playing, with a loaded weapon & chasing his wet dream, a black 17 year old unarmed kid!

And what, you're an expert on what he said on that tape? How do you know it wasn't a racial slur, many others that have credentials better than your's I'm sure, said they heard a racial slur!

[Cosmocat]

41. reality supports Zimmerman stalked Martin

this is not even a debatable point.

The 9-1-1 calls alone are proof positive that this moron stalked the kid.

[LynneSin]

50. If Zimmerman had listened to those people on the other end of the 911 call

Trayvon Martin would still be alive.

Just saying.

[WI_DEM]

67. Yes, Stalked. Zimmerman got out of his car going against what a 'neighborhood watch'

person is supposed to do and decided to confront him. Trayvon Martin had no idea what the dip shit wanted and maybe he did stand his ground. What exactly was Trayvon doing wrong that he was pursued by Zimmerman? nothing except walking. Bottom line is Zimmerman caused this tragedy because he decided to racial profile Martin and confront him.

[sabrina 1]

104. He was dead seconds after the call to his girlfriend was interrupted.

He told her he thought he had lost Zimmerman, but Zimmerman apparently found him, on the phone, since his girlfriend heard the exchange, or the beginning of.

So, since he was doing exactly what you say he should have been doing, walking fast towards his dad's girlfriend's house, but Zimmerman found him before he could get there, do you have any other suggestions as to what might have saved his life that night?

I do, Zimmerman should have stayed in his truck as he was told by the police to do. That one act, had it occurred, would mean no one would ever have heard of either of them.

[nenagh]

7. Zimmerman is a short man...that is not a man who is tall in stature...

He chose to get out of his van and follow a young male who he already perceived as 'on drugs' etc...

Trayvon was speaking on a non hand held phone..using a device attached to his ear. He appeared to be speaking to empty space. Was this why Zimmerman chose to perceive Trayvon as suspicious?

Read the Hinkey Meter...there you will find reasoned opinion on both sides of the racial and political divide...who all speak to Zimmerman's actions and reactions.

[CatWoman]

10. Ah

another stop on the Zimmerman Apology Tour.

coming to a city near your.

[vaberella]

18. There are so many of them.

Not to mention the man probably lost a lot of weight when he saw that this shit wouldn't die down. I would be shitting bricks for days on end if I was in his situation.

[CatWoman]

19. something else the OP failed to address:

Zimmerman is at least 10 years older than Trayvon.

Yet Zimmerman comes across as the juvenile.

[baldguy]

22. .

[Solomon]

23. Nice of you to declare that Zimmerman did not use

a racial slur. I know what I heard. A racial slur. There was also no injuries on Zimmerman when he arrived at the station. I know what I saw.

You might be able to convince other people not to believe their own eyes and ears. Keep working.

[vaberella]

29. Yeah...I'm waiting for AG Holder's findings on whether it was a racial slur or not. n/t

[shimonitanegi]

25. If you know so much about Zimmerman and Martin's weight

just tell me their exact weights on the day of shooting incident.

[notadmblnd]

33. Are you being paid to come here to attempt to convince us that Zimmermann is the victim?

because it's not going to happen.

[Motown_Johnny]

34. Can you prove those statements or are you just making things up?

Show me documentation of the weight of both men at the time Trevon was killed.


Then prove he said "goons" and not "coons".

Otherwise you are just making stuff up while accusing others of doing the same thing.

[vaberella]

36. What blows my mind is that I believe the Prosecution's report states that Zimmerman said "punks".

But I'm waiting for Eric Holder to get on this and let us know the truth.

[HereSince1628]

42. When considering weight differentials, do we add the weight of the loaded pistol to Zimmerman????

Trying to make Zimmerman's justification for fear for his life based on lack of a weight differential seems tenuous at best.

Based on 911 tapes Zimmerman pursued Trayvon despite any weight difference. According to the young woman on the phone with Trayvon, Zimmerman physically confronted Trayvon despite the weight difference.

Zimmerman seems to have acted with indifference to any risk that might have existed due to differences between his physique or athleticism and Trayvon's.



Regarding what is known about the physique of the gun shot victim and the shooter...There is a wiki sight (granting questionable reliability thereof) and it lists the following

According to Sanford Police, Martin weighed 160 pound, according to Trayvon's family he weighed 150. {Robles, Frances (March 31, 2012). "What is known, what isn’t about Trayvon Martin’s death". The Miami Herald. Retrieved April 21, 2012}

Zimmerman's weight isn't listed on the police report. His friend and supporter Mr Oliver suggested Zimmerman weighed 170 lbs. {Friend: George Zimmerman scared for his life". WKMG Local 6. March 27, 2012. Retrieved from internet April 21,2012}

[marmar]

39. ........

[Klukie]

43. Zimmerman had no right to follow Trayvon

and in doing so....He (Zimmerman) violated Trayvon's right to walk freely. Zimmerman was not a police officer. This FACT trumps everything else.

[showmethejedi]

57. right to walk freely?

Im not sure thats one of our inalienable rights. And im pretty sure those of us who cant walk find that offensive. But in all seriousness dont be ridiculous. Do i also have a right to breathe in deep and let it out slow?

[Ecumenist]

114. Um, What?

[pinboy3niner]

121. Hey Sister, just breathe deep and let it out slow

Some just don't get it, and it's an uphill battle to educate them. But all that matters is fighting the good fight...

ALDONZA: Why do you do these things?

DON QUIXOTE
What things?

ALDONZA
These ridiculous... the things you do!

DON QUIXOTE
I hope to add some measure of grace to the world.

ALDONZA
The world's a dung heap and we are maggots that crawl on it!

DON QUIXOTE
My Lady knows better in her heart.

ALDONZA
What's in my heart will get me halfway to hell.
And you, Señor Don Quixote-you're going to take
such a beating!

DON QUIXOTE
Whether I win or lose does not matter.

ALDONZA
What does?

DON QUIXOTE
Only that I follow the quest.

ALDONZA
(spits)
That for your Quest!
(turns, marches away; stops, turns bock
and asks, awkwardly)
What does that mean... quest?

DON QUIXOTE
It is the mission of each true knight...
His duty... nay, his privilege!
To dream the impossible dream,
To fight the unbeatable foe,
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go;
To right the unrightable wrong.

To love, pure and chaste, from afar,
To try, when your arms are too weary,
To reach the unreachable star!

This is my Quest to follow that star,
No matter how hopeless, no matter how far,
To fight for the right
Without question or pause,
To be willing to march into hell
For a heavenly cause!

And I know, if I'll only be true
To this glorious Quest,
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest.

And the world will be better for this,
That one man, scorned and covered with scars,
Still strove, with his last ounce of courage,
To reach the unreachable stars!


--From 'Man of La Mancha'

Keep on fighting the good fight!

[Marrah_G]

45. I'm shocked that you are from AZ

[pinboy3niner]

47. OP is now PPRoni'd

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=272973&sub=trans

[Marrah_G]

48. Yay!!!!

Thank you Admins/MIRT

[freshwest]

69. +1,000

[malaise]

53. Good

I should have sent flowers

[The Magistrate]

55. Good To See Another Trolling Zimmerman Defender Scrubbed, Sir

There is a serious infestation of these racist apologists for murder done against an African-American teenager.

[showmethejedi]

61. nice to see

That d u has rules against name calling and such remarks but when the" alert monkeys" are the "good guys" were gonna all get that dang troll and teach him a lesson about preaching onlg half a story arrrrg. Hypocritical to the tip of your noses! I hate no one in this world. I wasnt there the night the poor kid was shot and neither were any of you. That doesnt mean im jumping to either conclusion. Am i a racial apologist? I would have done everything i could to save that kid and i dont care what color he is.

[The Magistrate]

62. Leave Comedy To the Professionals, Son

[showmethejedi]

75. how about we

Leave the unnecessary condescension to the Republicans.

[The Magistrate]

77. Dismissal For Cause, Sir, Is Hardly Condescension

"If you want your ideas respected, get better ideas."

[showmethejedi]

79. its not an idea, its an inalienable right

To be viewed as innocent untill proven otherwise and its not an idea, its a fact that we must view any case objectivly untill you are presented with all the facts. Any more snippy remarks for me to shoot down?

[Solomon]

82. LOL. You have an inalienable right to speak freely

but Trayvon did not have an inalienable right to walk freely?.

Um, okay.

[LanternWaste]

83. And is this is merely a discussion board rather than a court of law, no one person's "inalienable ri

And is this is merely a discussion board rather than a court of law, no one person's "inalienable right" is being denied in any manner.

[fascisthunter]

97. "shoot down"... I'm sure Zimmerman felt the same bravado

[Ecumenist]

115. But the freedom to walk on public sidewalks on the way home ISN'T AN UNALIENABLE RIGHT?

[CatWoman]

80. who is this "we"

kimosabe?

[The Magistrate]

85. Definite Whiff Of Pepperoni In The Air, Ma'am

[HangOnKids]

88. Oh Dear Pizza Has Been Served

I guess AZWorker and his minion have a thing or two to learn.

[pinboy3niner]

89. Judging by the coherence of this one's posts...

...my guess would be sausage.

[Hugabear]

99. I suspect they could be one and the same

Both signed up within a few weeks of each other, and both had extremely low post counts. As soon as OP gets banned, here comes the other troll to defend his honor.

[Hugabear]

71. Almost sounds like you're defending a banned troll

Very interesting...

[janx]

72. I found that interesting as well. n/t

[bluestate10]

103. Good. If the OP's post is removed from DU, life would be perfect. nt

[OneGrassRoot]

81. LOL! n/t

[onlyadream]

46. It doesn't matter

Trayvon was talking to his gf, probably taking his time, not wanting to talk to gf in his dad's home for all to hear. This is very common. He notices a guy following him. His gf gets nervous for him and tells him to run, he says no, he'll just walk faster. Then comes the altercation. You can hear it on the 911 tapes. If Zimmerman received any injuries, it was because trayvon was protecting himself. I'd be scared too, if I was him. In other words, Trayvon was standing HIS ground against an intruder WHILE he was NOT doing anything wrong. It doesn't matter the age, the size, or even if Zimmermans head was bleeding. Fact is, Zimmerman caused the entire thing and overreacted.If he didn't have a gun he probably would never have followed the kid.

[LynneSin]

49. So? He still shot an unarmed man that 911 specifically told him to back away from

I don't care if Trayvon weighed 20000lbs more than Zimmerman. Martin was an unarmed person walking in a neighborhood where his father's girlfriend lived.

Nuff said.

[Ecumenist]

117. Someone who was unarmed who was still legally a minor! Had just turned 17 years old but I guess

that doesn't matter when you are a black male.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

52. I did notice that from the time he was arrested, he has lost a lot

of weight. Even his face looks thinner now. BIG DIFFERENCE.

[Lizzie Poppet]

100. Are you referring to that much-published "orange jumpsuit" pic?

The one we saw so often alongside the 12-year-old Trayvon pic? If so, it's not all that odd that Zimmerman lost a lot of weight since that arrest...seeing as how it took place in 2005.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

108. Nope. Comparing him in first versus second arrest photos for this killing. nt

[Lizzie Poppet]

130. Ah, cool... thanks for the clarification.

I wonder why he's lost a fair bit of weight in a short period of time like that? I'd like to think it's something like loss of appetite from the realization of the enormity of what he's done...some normal human remorse. Probably too generous of me...

[dionysus]

54. sleep well, sweet,sweet prince.

[spanone]

56. who cares. he shot the kid.

[showmethejedi]

59. so?

The crazy fu k in Afghanistan killed half a dozen kids. But lets keep talking about trayyvon. And GZ shall we?

[onlyadream]

66. And law enforcement acted accordingly

But not in Trayvon's case.

[showmethejedi]

76. when the discussion is about GZ's guilt or otherwise

The multitude of mistakes the authorities made only have anything to do with this if he is found not guilty because of said malfeasance. Stay on point if you can, i was only reminding everyone that kids die every damn day. So lets not assume that TM is the only victim and GZ is the only bad guy.

[showmethejedi]

58. any of us would lose weight if..

We were guilty and what little conscience we have is not allowing our organs to work. Listen up. We live in America a place where all non terrorists and non terrorism associates have a "right" to a trial. I am also under the opinion that he did it. But it goes against the spirit of those who came before us to condemn this man, without listening to his plethora of bullshit. If he is found as guilty as you are all so sure he is. Then why share so much anger with the poster? He is not GZ. Juat pointing out the overwhelming sense of guilt before anything is proven in court, anything! If your truly mad go punch a gun lobbyist or republican militia member, for its their false steps taken in protection of there 2nd amendment "rights" that leads to all this, fighting,anger,bullshit, and death.

[showmethejedi]

64. a gun will kill a horse and a mouse.

It doesnt matter how much each of them weighs. GZ shot and killed a younger, unarmed teen, the question is how Florida's ludicrous lawsand the botched spd investigation will play into what he is ultimately sentenced with.

[Bluerthanblue]

65. the bullet that killed Trayvon didn't weigh very much either-

but the FACT is that he's still dead. And had Zimmerman not played cop- without authority or actual training, there is no doubt in any thinking persons mind that we would not be talking about either Trayvon Martin, or George Zimmerman today.

Zimmerman's associate degree in criminal justice was nothing but a piece of paper if he didn't grasp the stupidity of what he did that rainy sunday evening by carrying a gun in his 'role' as neighborhood watch, and pursuing someone rather than observing them. He did NOT have the right or duty to confront Trayvon Martin after he'd reported his 'concern' to the proper authorities.

As for the sometimes exaggerated claim of weight difference, does it matter? He had the advantage of a loaded deadly weapon, and claims to have had training in what proper procedure was for dealing with people that he found noteworthy.

He fucked up- royally. That is a FACT. Trayvon's family didn't "lose" their son/brother/etc. His life was TAKEN by the actions of George Zimmerman. That is another FACT.

No matter how uncomfortable and troubling you may find it.

[Demonaut]

68. the 100lb claim is key to the whole issue...., not the stalking of a lone male in the dark, after

being told not to follow the male by the police.
shooting said male after confronting him.

nah

and I hear "coons" in the audio tape not "punks"

[Hugabear]

70. Troll has been given his PPRoni

Seems the only reason troll signed up was to defend Zimmerman.

[11 Bravo]

87. If he only signed up to defend Zimmerman, I want to take him to the race track.

Since he joined up in July of 2011, that would make him one prescient mother-fucker!

[Hugabear]

98. LOL

I must have been looking at the wrong date when I checked out his profile.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the OP and the 'showmethejedi' poster could be one and the same...both signed up within a few weeks of each other, and both had extremely low post counts. As soon as OP gets banned, here comes 'Jedi' to defend him. Makes me wonder if the 'Jedi' account was created as a backup, in case his primary account got shut down.

[fascisthunter]

73. not clever enough...

...tsk, tsk, tsk.

[librechik]

84. before you scold us about facts, how about a source for the ones you mention?

I don't see where your un-cited opinion is factually superior to anyone else's opinion, not as yet. Where did you hear/read those things in your OP?

IMO he did say a racial slur, he did outweigh Trayvon, and what difference does that make? Zimmerman was armed and he admitted he "didn't know" if Trayvon was armed. That admits he didn't know his life was under imminent threat. And if it was, he could prrotect himself easu ily with the gun.

What did Trayvon have to protect himself against a stranger following him in the dark with a gun?

[sakabatou]

86. +1

[WeekendWarrior]

93. HERE ARE THE FACTS:

1. Zimmerman had a gun
2. Zimmerman made disparaging remarks about Trayvon while on the 911 call (whether racist or not)
3. Zimmerman followed Trayvon after the police dispatcher told him not to
4. Trayvon was unarmed.
5. Zimmerman shot him.

You don't have to be a fucking genius to figure out who's in the wrong here.

And anyone with a brain knows that if it were Zimmerman who had gotten the bullet, Trayvon probably would have been strung up by now.

EDITED TO ADD: They ran Harold and Kumar Escape from Guantanamo on Comedy Central last night. There's a scene in it where a black guy—who witnessed a crime—approaches an FBI agent to give him his story. The FBI agent immediately pulls his gun, goes into combat stance and trains it on the black guy telling him to back away.

It was supposed to be funny. The problem is, it was too goddamn close to the truth to make me laugh.

[Tikki]

94. Not 100, bet 50+...zimmerman is a full grown man who has trained in some sort of law enforcement..

There is nothing in what even might have happened that night that points to a man using any kind
of prior training at all.

This was a man with a gun.


Tikki

[Zax2me]

109. He wasn't a trained anything.

He was a wannabe hero.

[99Forever]

96. Looks like this bait thread did serve one good purpose.

Got a couple of trolls to crawl out and get banned. Nice.

[progressoid]

110. Yup.

[BanTheGOP]

102. FACT: Zimmerman murdered a poor defenseless boy and deserves LWOP or execution.

Another fact: You are a snot eating rethug troll. Goodbye.

[Quixote1818]

107. The 100 lbs figure came from his weight when he was arrested for punching a cop

So he started working out and lost a few pounds and looked buff as hell on the police severance video. In fact he was probably more dangerous after the weight loss and a lot faster too. So what is your point?

[Arkana]

120. Zimmerman followed Martin after being told not to, lied about his injuries, and ran out

on his lawyers.

He's a racist, and guilty as sin.

[jpak]

124. No, he was just black male and doing nothing wrong - that is why he deserved to die

what horseshit

yup

[Rex]

125. What is that troll? You present two issues

and yet left the hundreds of facts we can debate out of your post?

[rustydog]

128. OK facts, an unarmed 17 year old was walking home with skittles and tea

An ARMED Zimmerman, who apparently needed a firearm to give him balls, decided on his own without any evidence other than Trayvon Martin was being black in his neighborhood, was suspicious and required being followed and challenged after being told not to by the authorities he called.
Nutless Zimmie used his prosthetic balls to give him courage and challenged Trayvon and ended up murdering him.

Stand your ground works both ways. You cannot start a fight then claim self defense when a teenager kicks your assaultive bully ass...Zimmerman had no fucking business following, challenging or murdering Trayvon Martin.

QUIT defending Zimmerman, there is no defense.