Wow. Kevin Siers cartoon: Torture Cases

[arcane1]

[Beowulf42]

1. Dire Peril

We are making a huge mistake by turning a blind eye to the torture perpetrated by the CIA and G.W. Bush and Dick Cheney. We make it so much easier for enemies to recruit willing agents to their causes. We need to return to our principles and become leaders for good in our pursuit of greatness.

[90-percent]

12. A huge mistake?

It's only a huge mistake if you think the POWERS THAT BE that actually run America have any interest what so ever in maintaining the USA as a Democratic Republic as envisioned by the founding fathers and maintained thusly from 1776 to around 1980 or so.

The utter dismantling of our Democracy began in earnest on September 11, 2001. That's when the PTB's decided it was all clear to turn the USA into a totalitarian fascist police state.

They rolled out THE PATRIOT ACT and signed it into law in less than EIGHT WEEKS after 9-11 happened! Our Fascists have foresight, don't they?

Do any DU mates know of any source that can provide an accurate inventory of how many of our Constitutional Rights have been nullified since 9-11? It's a damn shame we've lost so many of them, considering the millions of servicemen we lost in all those Wars that died defending the American Way of Life. Their service was all for naught. We gave away everything they sacrificed for so the PTB's could "keep us safe". I only wish the PTB's were equally earnest keeping us safe from cancer, heart disease, suicide, murder, auto accidents, and all the other deadly hazards out there that kill 2.5 million American's per year. (We're all going to die someday. My point is there's natural causes of death and preventable causes of death. If a lot of mortality in America is preventable, then why isn't our HELL-BENT-ON-KEEPING-US-ALL-SAFE Government also do something to bring that number down by means other than warrentless wiretapping or a militarized police force?)

And while I'm ranting, a little item that has slipped down the memory hole. To this day, I contend that only perhaps .1% of all Americans even know that GWB was business partners with one of Osama's older brothers?

http://www.bollyn.com/the-family-ties-between-bush-and-bin-laden-2

To be fair to GWB, Osama and Salem's dad had a lot of wives and produced a lot more siblings for Osama than usual, so that increases the probability that any of us would associate with Bin Laden family members. And the Bin Laden family that found themselves in the USA immediately after 9-11 were the only people in the United States allowed to use U.S. airspace in the days immediately following 9-11. I want to know who in our government made that happen and why did they do it?

-90% Jimmy

[Octafish]

14. Bushes, bin Ladens, Carlyle Group

Poppy Bush and bin Laden brother were at the same Carlyle Group meeting on September 11.

Bin Ladens soon thereafter "liquidated" their holdings.

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/10/26/business/bin-laden-family-liquidates-holdings-with-carlyle-group.html


The late, senior bin Laden brother financially backed Smirko Bush.

http://inthesetimes.com/issue/25/25/feature3.shtml


BTW: Carlyle Group today also owns Booz Allen Hamilton, NSA's go-to contractor.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/15696-behind-the-curtain-booz-allen-hamilton-and-its-owner-the-carlyle-group


Small world.

[hifiguy]

19. GREAT post that should be an OP!

[truedelphi]

23. Very good post.

I second the notion of making it an OP.

[ronnie624]

36. Excellent post.

The minuscule threat from terrorism, in no way, justifies the massive overreaction in the form of the so called Global War on Terror. When one considers the numbers, it should be plainly obvious that the GWOT is a pretext for something else. The expense of resources and the wholesale loss of civil liberties cannot possibly be justified. The "war on terror" is also a major distraction from attempts to mitigate the truly threatening issues, like the damage we are doing to our biosphere and the impending climate disaster that will result from global warming. The best way to reduce the (small) threat from terrorism, is through an honest examination of our government's conduct in the world and how it affects people of the countries we target for intervention.

[SomethingFishy]

37. So the post stands but the OP is hidden...

yeah...

[840high]

2. Yep

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

3. I dare you to xpost this in the BOG.

It might make for lively conversation.

[obxhead]

4. Doubtful

That forum is for endless praise and worship only.

[RobertEarl]

6. I just did

I can't believe you people posting such things about our president?!! <grin>

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1102&pid=27272

[OnyxCollie]

9. Reagan(!?!) was mentioned in the of the critical responses to your post.

[rhett o rick]

21. This torture report has really back the Obama defenders into a corner.

They know in their hearts that torture is horrible and illegal and yet the President is soft-selling it. It's very hard to rationalize the President's stand on torture.

I am surprised you are still allowed to post there.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

30. Thank you. I've been out of the BOG for a while

Young children really can't deal with finding out there's no Santa.

[OnyxCollie]

7. Arcane1 isn't blocked yet.

This would do it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. Why would you encorage sh!t stirring? ...

I dare you to put this pudding in that funny looking kids hair!

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

29. I consider it the cold hard truth.

Others who can't handle it consider it sh!t stirring.

[1StrongBlackMan]

31. Yeah, okay ...

encouraging someone to do something you strongly suspect will stir upsh!t is sh!t stirring.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

34. You know, there really is no Santa.

[MissDeeds]

5. So true

And so shameful


K&R

[Luminous Animal]

8. And the Obama's will live charmed lives.

[grahamhgreen]

10. Exactly.

[Rhythm]

11. Nailed it...

That's one of the few things i miss about my former hometown...
The Charlotte Observer's astute editorial cartoonists
Doug Marlette when i was a kid (RIP), then Siers since then...

[L0oniX]

13. Question is ...how much did Obama know about it over the last 6 years.

[libodem]

15. We all knew

He knew. He knows.

[L0oniX]

16. Well at least Hillary didn't know ... ... ...or did she?

[lark]

18. He knew and did his best to cover it up

Disgusting. He also did nothing to remove the bad apples (Bush imbeds) at any agency and violates our privacy even more thoroughly than the Bush admin. Why didn't he go after the traitorous torturers at CIA, even if he left Shrub and the master of evil alone? He just ensured that this will happen again, so his pronouncements of "we don't torture" are lies.

[woo me with science]

32. "He just ensured that this will happen again"

That is exactly what has been accomplished, very deliberately. We had a PR banning of "some" types of torture only, while renditions continue with no real accountability whatsoever. He has made it explicitly clear that those who *do* torture will never be prosecuted.

Rape and breaking of bones as deliberate American policy to extract false confessions to dupe Americans into supporting the neocons' (and now neolibs') perpetual war.

This is how far into the moral sewer the United States of America has been dragged by these criminals:

Time to repost this by William Pitt: Refresher Course on PNAC
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025518146

Refresher Course in PNAC: This was planned a long time ago.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025518146

Only two countries remain on the PNAC agenda: Syria and Iran ...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023540654

Report shows torture program deliberately used to extract false confessions to propagandize Americans to support War agenda
Is the Media Focusing on the Wrong Senate Torture Report?http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025959095

Obama Administration Presses on Two Fronts to Prevent Disclosure of the Panetta Report & Durham Memo
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025949936

Obama did not ban torture and now makes sure there is no real accountability.
"The LEFT needs to realize that TORTURE is OVER"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025952831

What Is Obama Doing At Bagram? (Part One): Torture Under the Obama Administration
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x540433

Target of Obama-era rendition alleges torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6277906
(original discussion missing)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/11/target-of-obama-era-rendi_n_256499.html

Pres. Obama Never Rescinded Bush Memo On Torture- Still Part of Military Interrogation Doctrine
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025347198

Obama Justice Department indicts ex-CIA agent for exposing torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002528908

Obama has stated flat out the USA does not Torture, BUT does it ...
(original discussion missing)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8817920

Obama's Torture Problem (Cover-up of torture at Guantanamo and CIA black sites)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9640662
(original discussion missing)
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2010/nov/18/obamas-torture-problem/

Fellow Nobel Peace Laureates to Obama: Stain of US Torture Your Job to Repair
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025722026

Obama's Torture Bind (Torture, CIA "black sites&quot
(original discussion missing)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5454518

The ACLU on Obama and Core Liberties
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x2069714
(original discussion missing)
http://www.salon.com/2011/09/07/liberties_3/

Note how many of these discussions are now missing from DU. I had to go looking for many of the original sources online. This is why it's important to title articles with the actual titles of the sources...

[1StrongBlackMan]

17. Liberals accepting the coopting of another important message? ...

Who would have thought it?

[Bluenorthwest]

26. That comic illustrates the very real connection between the torture and other violent law

enforcement abuses. I know you are a centrist but you need to think this through. As above, so below. If the top of the law enforcement chain, Federal agencies, are given impunity to rape and to torture then you are simply commanding that there be more abuse by local authorities carried out with impunity.
Anyone who actually gives a fuck about racist cops or fixed courts should be furious about the program of systemic torture and the manipulation of the laws and courts.
Pretending that it is possible to run or to excuse a torture program and also maintain excellent and justice minded policing and court systems is going to help make more widows and weeping mothers.

I think your position on this is the wrong one. Insanely wrong.

[1StrongBlackMan]

27. Your perception of my political leanings is irrelevant ...

I am a Black man that objects to the phrases and slogan associated racial injustice being coopted by those that wish to make some "larger more relevant" but non-racial point. And I'm pretty certain that if these were iconic phrases/slogans associated with the lgbt community, you would be the first to state your objection (and I would support you in doing that).

Anyone who actually gives a fuck about racist cops or fixed courts should be furious about the program of systemic torture and the manipulation of the laws and courts.

And I am ... But what does one have to do with the other?

I think your position on this is the wrong one. Insanely wrong.

That's fine.

[woo me with science]

33. Excellent post.

[Rex]

35. I doubt all 170 people rec'ing this are liberals but thanks anyways.

We do get mentioned a lot around here mostly negative comments.

[woo me with science]

20. And it doesn't even cover the rape and breaking of bones,

or the fact that the torture was carried out deliberately to extract false confessions to dupe and propagandize Americans into supporting these wars.

Huge K&R

[duhneece]

24. Since I can't 'like' your post, I'll just add, "Amen"

Amen, Amen, Amen....

[rhett o rick]

22. If the President continues to soft-sell torture, it won't set well historically.

One either supports the idea of using torture or one doesn't. No fence setting allowed on this issue.

[truedelphi]

25. Hey, there have been indictments. Holder has faithfully

seen to it that his agents help arrest many people for torturing their bodies with the evil ganga, and this proves my case:

http://my.firedoglake.com/elisemattu/2012/09/26/santa-rosa-calif-gets-hit-by-gestapo-today-092612/

Some here would say that cannabis has no side effects, but Holder would tell you otherwise. The product has proven to make people:

1) Sleepy
2) Happy
3) Hungry

Who knows exactly how many terrorist raids on refrigerators across the nation that the Holder regime has prevented!

[Blue_Tires]

38. Interesting take, but

Sadly, the artist is only diluting both issues by creating parallels between them, IMO

[heaven05]

39. Our President stopped the torture

and said the politically expedient thing to short out the RW outrage and accusations of terrorist coddling and give some on the LW a reason to hate. So what. He's a politician and he's my politician. Don't like ll he's done but love everything he's done for we the people. Haters will hate. The Obama haters on this site have done more to make me just keep on appreciating my President more and more. Keep hating, I WILL keep appreciating more and more.