Why is the man responsible for the Trail of Tears still on the $20 bill?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

Who should he be replaced with?

[Throd]

1. Why is a guy who was president during slavery on the $1 bill?

[el_bryanto]

5. Is that Washington's only claim to fame?

I could have sworn there was more to him than that.

[Bruce Wayne]

26. Right. And Jackson was responsible for more than Indian removal.

For that matter, Jackson didn't even initiate the Indian removal policy. It was a state-level initiative (Georgia, I think) that Jackson simply refused to get involved with. The "let Justice Marshall enforce his court order" quote is apocryphal.

Jackson can be credited with expanding the franchise to many non-property owner--a major democratic step that reversed the trends of increased voter restriction in the generation before him--and the inclusion of more voters in the political nomination process, reducing the power of party bosses half a century before this was widely popular. Most importantly, he supported the tariff that increased the political power of the country's industrial base--which grew at the expense of the slaveocracy's agricultural base. This led directly to the 1835 Nullification Crisis in which anti-tariff South Carolina essentially threatened secession and Jackson established the precedent of presenting the US Army as bulwark against secession--which would be pretty important in Mr. Lincoln's showdown against the slaveocracy 26 years later.

Politicians are complex creatures. Picking on pet issue on which to villify them doesn't ever particularly enlighten us.

[GeorgeGist]

45. not so fast ...

T

he Indian Removal Act was signed into law by President Andrew Jackson on May 28, 1830.[1][2]



President Andrew Jackson called for an Indian Removal Act in his 1829 speech on the issue.
The Removal Act was strongly supported in the South, where states were eager to gain access to lands inhabited by the Five Civilized Tribes. In particular, Georgia, the largest state at that time, was involved in a contentious jurisdictional dispute with the Cherokee nation. President Jackson hoped removal would resolve the Georgia crisis. The Indian Removal Act was also very controversial. While Native American removal was, in theory, supposed to be voluntary, in practice great pressure was put on Native American leaders to sign removal treaties. Most observers, whether they were in favor of the Indian removal policy or not, realized that the passage of the act meant the inevitable removal of most Indians from the states. Some Native American leaders who had previously resisted removal now began to reconsider their positions, especially after Jackson's landslide re-election in 1832. Affected tribes included the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw, Creek, and Seminole.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Removal_Act

[HiPointDem]

49. i.e. he signed it in response to GA, already pushing indians off their land. A Bush relation was

peripherally involved, BTW:

(My own research and writing)


Samuel Howard Fay (father of Harriet Fay, GW Bush's g-g grandma) went to Savannah sometime before 1825... Samuel first stepped onto Georgia's historical stage in 1825, when he testified in an investigation of the Governor of Georgia's dealings with the Creek (Muscogee) Indians.

In 1825 Georgia's Governor George Troup (a Scot) and his first cousin William McIntosh signed the Second Treaty of Indian Springs. The treaty extinguished the Creeks' ownership of their remaining land in Georgia... Mcintosh had already signed away a great deal of the Creeks' land in the First Treaty of Indian Springs....3

McIntosh was half-Scot and half-Creek, a plantation owner and slaveholder who'd already been indited for smuggling slaves into Georgia from Florida. Another of his cousins, Alexander McGillivray, was half Creek as well -- and a partner in Panton, Leslie. Panton Leslie and its successor John Forbes and Co. dominated the trade with the Indians in Florida....also one of the biggest slave traders in Florida.4,5

The son of a Scottish trader and a Creek woman from an influential clan, McIntosh...had no overarching authority to speak for the entire Creek nation. In return for his betrayal, the Creek National Council ordered McIntosh's assassination. It was carried out in 1825. 3

President John Quincy Adams rescinded Troup's treaty... Troup... continued sending his militia to remove the Creeks. Adams threatened Troup with federal troops. Troup prepared his militia to fight the feds. Adams backed down.

The Creeks were pushed to Oklahoma along the “Trail of Tears,” and their land was distributed to white Georgians. 3

Samuel Fay's testimony played a peripheral part in this story. He simply recounted what he had heard while staying at Georgia's Indian Agency (the home of Henry Crowell, brother of President Adams' Indian Agent John Crowell):5

Testimony of Samuel Howard Fay.

I certify that I stopped at Mr. Henry Crowell's house... in speaking of the probability of Gov. Troup's punishing the Indians for the murder of Macintosh, I heard Mr. Crowell make a declaration similar to the following: "That if Gov. Troup were to attempt to punish the Indians, he (Crowell) would leive his wife, family and property and go over to the Indians, head them, and go his death with them." I believe these were the precise words of Mr. Crowell as near as I can recollect. It is the substance of his declaration.

Signed, SAMUEL HOWARD FAY.
Savannah, July 1, 1825.

By 1833 Samuel Howard Fay was a partner in the commission and shipping house of Padelford and Fay. Padelford was an American agent for Baring Brothers & Co., London's oldest merchant bank, then second in power only to Rothschild & Co...6

[denbot]

113. I personally know a handful of Indians who won't carry twenty's on them.

Some of my people have very long memories.

[JonLP24]

2. Good question

This is all I could find.

Treasury Department records do not reveal the reason that portraits of these particular statesmen were chosen in preference to those of other persons of equal importance and prominence. By law, only the portrait of a deceased individual may appear on U.S. currency and securities.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070928013452/http://www.moneyfactory.gov/document.cfm/18/118

[Enrique]

3. because of his awesome hair n/t

[Tom Ripley]

13. He did have the greatest hair of any president

[HereSince1628]

4. Perhaps, because the alternative is worse?

Life is full of compromises.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

53. Why?

Let's put FDR on it.

[HereSince1628]

65. More likely that this guy will show up...

[HughBeaumont]

73. Geez, that looks like "Bars on the Windows"-era Reagan.

"Nancy . . . what . . . year is it? I AM still President, right?"



If Grovel Nerdquist (R - The Most Important Yard Gnome In History) had his way, you'd see him on currency, schools, mountains, parks, libraries, etc. Eccccccch.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

75. Please don't do that again.

[anti-alec]

82. If Raygun shows up,

I'm asking for 2 5's instead of 10's.

[4th law of robotics]

114. "Let's put FDR on it."

5 seconds after the first FDR twenty dollar bills come out: why do we have the guy who set up concentration camps on our money?

[YellowRubberDuckie]

116. He kinda did save our country with the New Deal.

He set up concentration camps during a time when people were scared as shit. While that doesn't excuse it, it isn't like they were put into showers and exterminated with gas instead of given showers or anything.

[denverbill]

6. Why is the guy who is responsible for the internment of all Japanese Americans still on the dime?

Andrew Jackson was also a hero of the War of 1812 and made quite an impact on national history both before and during his Presidency. It's hard to judge people in the past by standard of today. By the standards of his day, his policy towards Indians was fairly liberal. Many Americans favored extermination rather than removal. Lincoln favored shipping freed black slaves back to Africa, and he's still on the penny.

[JonLP24]

8. I don't think it's hard

Even back then you can find people that opposed those policies, for example, Radical Republicans as opposed to Lincoln.

[KamaAina]

46. All Japanese-Americans were not interned

most in Hawai'i were not. There was one small camp on Maui, but on O'ahu, that basically would have meant building a fence around one-third of the entire island.

Your point about the mainland camps stands, though, especially considering that openly pro-Hitler German groups like the German-American Bund were allwoed to operate openly.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

54. There were German Americans interred.

We still have the remains of a German internment camp out side of El Reno OK where they put German Americans and others during WW2.

[grantcart]

78. German Americans were not interned. German nationals living here were interned as was the custom

in all countries during the war. Americans of German ancestory were not interned en masse as the Japanese were and the only American citizens in a German internment camp were children bearing American citizenship where the family opted to keep the family unit together.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

93. Okarche Oklahoma was a German Settlement.

Most of the people from there were sent to the internment over in El Reno. I have first hand information on this. No I don't don't have a link, but personally know people who lived through it. By what you just said, German Americans WERE in fact interned because their children were interned. Nothing I said was incorrect.

[grantcart]

105. No they weren't and I do have links to prove it:

but really it is a common sense issue. In the Western part of the United States all people of Japanese Ancestory were swept into massive internment camps and no distinction was made to whether or not they were US citizens or not.

German and Italian nationals who were living here were interned, as were Allied nationals in other countries, Japan, Thailand, Singapore, etc. It was a common practice at the time to intern all alien nationals of foriegn countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_American_internment

However, unlike Japanese-Americans, who were rounded up whether citizens or not, only non-citizen Germans were rounded up, with the exception of American-born minor children of internees.



http://www.archives.gov/research/immigration/enemy-aliens-overview.html

By the end of the war, over 31,000 suspected enemy aliens and their families, including a few Jewish refugees from Nazi Germany, had been interned at Immigration and Naturalization Services (INS) internment camps and military facilities throughout the United States. Some of these internment locations included Sharp Park Detention Station, California; Kooskia Internment Camp, Idaho; Fort Missoula Internment Camp, Montana; Fort Stanton Internment Camp and Santa Fe Internment Camp in New Mexico; Ellis Island Detention Station, New York; Fort Lincoln Internment Camp, North Dakota; Fort Forrest, Tennessee; and Crystal City Internment Camp, Kenedy Detention Station, and Seagoville Detention Station in Texas.



However the camp at El Reno OK was not for American Citizens or resident aliens, it was a POW camp for Germans caught by the US military

During WWII, Fort Reno, about one mile (1.6 km) west of El Reno, was the site of a prisoner of war camp, and today contains a P.O.W. cemetery, with stones bearing the names of German and Italian prisoners who died there.


Most people are unaware of the fact that there were over 425,000 Germans who were kept at POW camps in the US. Here is a list of 500 of them and Fort Reno is on the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_War_II_prisoner-of-war_camps_in_the_United_States


and this is confirmed by the OK Historical Society

During World War II federal officials located enemy prisoner of war (POW) camps in Oklahoma. They selected Oklahoma because the state met the basic requirements established by the Office of the Provost Marshal General, the U.S. Army agency responsible for the POW program.

. . .

Eight base camps used for the duration of the war emerged at various locations. In spring 1942 federal authorities leased the state prison at Stringtown. Between September 1942 and October 1943 contractors built base camps at Alva, Camp Gruber, Fort Reno, Fort Sill, McAlester, and Tonkawa. In autumn 1944 officials obtained use of vacant dormitories built for employees of the Oklahoma Ordnance Works at Pryor. In August of that year a unique facility opened at Okmulgee when army officials designated Glennan General Hospital to treat prisoners of war and partially staffed it with captured enemy medical personnel.

. . .

Most POWs who died in Oklahoma were buried at the military cemetery at Fort Reno.

So no mass deportations of Germans from German-American communities in PA happened like they did in San Francisco and all over the West Coast, the US government and the OK historical society both agree that the facility at Fort Reno was for combatant German POWs and not for civilians, internees or otherwise.

So besides all of that you were 100% correct. Germans were kept at a camp in Fort Reno, although they weren't American citizens, resident Alien Nationals but German soldiers who were part of a massive POW system.

[obamanut2012]

128. Only those members in treasonous organizations were interned

Unlike every single Japanese-American and Japanese legal resident in the bulk of America. Hawai'i wasn't a state yet, and TPTB there were pretty firm about leaving law-abiding residents alone.

[el_bryanto]

7. It'll be a lot simpler when we just have Reagen on all of our money

simpler all around.

Bryant

[Lasher]

10. Tell me about it.

When my grandchild was born, we were surprised to see the name on the birth certificate was Ronald Reagan Lasher. The hospital said it was a typo and it had never happened before.

[Meiko]

24. Oh God

Don't even joke about that.....

[Lasher]

28. It's not really a joke.

The Reagan Legacy Project will not rest until their Saint Ronnie of Reagan is on some form of US currency. Congressional Republicans have pushed for it.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

33. To Nancy Reagan's credit

she told them to give it a rest. That seemed to take the wind out of their sails. (I remember joking at the time that I was going to name my cat's litter box the USS Reagan.)

[Lasher]

85. Nancy opposed replacing FDR on the dime.

If she ever came out against putting Saint Ronnie's image on any other denomination, I am unaware of that.

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/08/news/economy/reagan_hamilton/index.htm?cnn=yes

[UnrepentantLiberal]

90. That might be what I'm thinking of.

It's been awhile.

[anti-alec]

84. Why not rename United States of Reagan

while the GOP are abusing their power?

[Lasher]

89. The Reagan Legacy Project's obsession comes pretty close to that.

The Ronald Reagan Legacy Project is an organization founded by Americans for Tax Reform president Grover Norquist that seeks to name at least one notable public landmark in each U.S. state and all 3067 counties after the 40th president.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_honors_named_for_Ronald_Reagan

[anti-alec]

98. I want Ronald Reagan Highway off my state.

That's the section of I-25 that starts and ends in El Paso County - the reddest part of the state.

Home of the Focus on the Family and Air Force Academy.

[Lasher]

101. Pretty soon there will be something named for him in my state.

Please excuse me, I have to go take a Ronald Reagan.

[11 Bravo]

107. I remember when Bob Barr was pushing to have an edifice named for Reagan in every county in the US.

I sent him a letter informing him that I had named my dick the "Ronald Wilson Reagan Memorial Penis", so he could cross Fairfax County, Virgina, off his list.
Strangely, I never heard back from him.

[HughBeaumont]

74. Pretty fitting, since the dollar dropped in value under his term, no?

[Monk06]

124. Great idea! Instead of calling it the buck, call it the prick. "That'll be twenty pricks, please."

"Hey buddy, can you spare a prick for a cup of coffee?"

Instead of Reagonomics, Prickonomics.

I like the sound of it.

[suston96]

9. Tragic indeed...........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson

The natives of the Americas were doomed by the swarms of European settlers before, during, and after Andrew Jackson's various tenures.

Not an excuse. Historically, he seems to shoulder the blame for that particular tragedy but there is enough to go around for others.

Any other presidents on currency who had slaves?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

14. Jefferson

Any other presidents on currency who had slaves?

[Lasher]

18. George Washington owned slaves.

So did Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, James Monroe, Andrew Jackson, Martin Van Buren, William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, James K. Polk, Zachary Taylor, Andrew Johnson, and Ulysses S. Grant.

http://home.nas.com/lopresti/ps.htm

I didn't check to see which of these have been on currency.

[DefenseLawyer]

11. Is this really an issue?

Are there any rational people that now defend the "Trail of Tears"? And if there are, do their arguments include "Well Andrew Jackson is on the $20 bill so it must have been okay!" I think there are better places to focus your energy.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

15. Hoover's name on FBI headquarters?

I think there are better places to focus your energy.

[JTFrog]

71. +1

"I think there are better places to focus your energy".

I think that has been hinted at a few times recently.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

76. Stalking me?

[JTFrog]

88. You wish. n/t

[Tom Ripley]

12. You mean the guy with riding tackle made of Indian skin?

[Capt. Obvious]

16. But for nothing, he can be on your avatar

[cthulu2016]

17. Leave John Kerry alone!!!

[DefenseLawyer]

20. Wait, you mean that's not Peter Gammons?

[pansypoo53219]

19. he was bad on indians, but he did grow up on the edges of the country then.

but he also was anti banksters and on the side of the 99% back then. has some great quotes, he is a mixed bag, as are all presidents.

[cthulu2016]

21. Because he's the father of the Democratic Party

At least that's why he's on the 20 to begin with. As to why he still is... it's tradition, I guess.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

57. Well, until like the 50s, Democrats were conservative racists.

[LanternWaste]

22. I imagine because there are none so pure as we'd like to believe.

"Why is the man responsible for the Trail of Tears still on the $20 bill?..."

I imagine because there are none so pure as we'd like to believe.

[Kaleva]

23. "Cause he's the only president who publicly threatened to hang his (former) vice president?

[RZM]

25. Agreed. Let's replace Jackson with Dick Gephardt as soon as he passes away n/t

[msongs]

27. there u go again picking on christian family values lol nt

[Bruce Wayne]

29. Why is someone who lacked the balls to shoot Aaron Burr on the $10?

Throw-away shot! Pfff, what a pussy! Fuck you, Alexander Hamilton!



Lesson: don't never talk about Aaron Burr's mama!

[Uncle Joe]

30. Jackson certainly had his flaws but his accomplishments are great as well.

Considering that he lived on the frontier in a different era no doubt influenced his hard edged character as well.

He fought duels and killed men; which had insulted his wife; Rachel, she would die just before they moved to the White House.

I believe Jackson is the only President that at one time was a POW, he sported a saber scar on his face from refusing to shine a British Officer's boots during the Revolutionary War as a young boy.

As for his accomplishments.

He saved New Orleans during the War of 1812 when other land victories were extremely rare, hell we couldn't even protect the nation's Capital from being burned.

Jackson was the father of the Democratic Party.

Jackson is the only President in U.S. history to pay off the national debt and fought against the corrupted bankster monopoly of his day.

Andrew Jackson prevented South Carolina's secession from the union during the turbulent times of the early 19th century.

He chose Martin Van Buren as his running mate and apparently Van Buren is the only President not related to the rest of them.

Jackson was the first common man's President and threw the greatest inauguration party in U.S. Presidential history.

Thanks for the thread, UnrepentantLiberal.

[Snake Alchemist]

31. "He fought duels and killed men; which had insulted his wife; Rachel,"

Is this considered a good thing.

[-..__...]

34. Sure...

it means he didn't take shit or back down from anybody.

[Snake Alchemist]

39. He stood his ground? nt

[-..__...]

42. I wouldn't want to fuck with him.

[Uncle Joe]

38. During that time yes, it certainly depicts his courage, perhaps George W. Bush

would've done the same but I doubt it.

Physical courage was essential on the frontier.

[Snake Alchemist]

40. So killing people for insults can be looked back on fondly as courageousness?

Sounds thin.

[Uncle Joe]

43. In those days honor meant a great deal perhaps too much, not killing in the sense of murder

exemplified courage but fighting a duel certainly did.

You can disagree all you like but that's the history on the frontier during the early 19th century.

[Snake Alchemist]

44. And the injuns were just savages?

I always raise an eyebrow when I hear about "those days".

[Uncle Joe]

50. Many people in those days believed it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it a fact.

Last edited Tue Apr 17, 2012, 03:01 PM - Edit history (1)

If you can't understand that, the trouble lies in your inability to walk in others' shoes as well.

[Snake Alchemist]

52. I believe that was the excuse used for slavery too. nt

[Uncle Joe]

62. What do the words "that doesn't make it right" mean to you?

"Many people in those days believed it, that doesn't make it right, it just makes it a fact."

[Snake Alchemist]

64. Not much when I'm told I must "walk in their shoes". nt

[Uncle Joe]

69. To acknowledge the reality of the history and fact,

walking in someone's shoes that you totally agree with means nothing.

If you're trying to suggest that it didn't take courage to fight a duel, that people in those days didn't believe Native Americans were savages and that slavery was fine with God, then you're denying reality.

[JonLP24]

41. Charles Dickinson just insulted him (rather than his wife)

Anyways, dueling seemed so pointless and stupid and glad that for the most part, we are smarter than that now.

[Uncle Joe]

47. Apparently he did both.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dickinson

One thing is for sure Andrew and Rachel were married believing Rachel's divorce was final, only to discover later it wasn't so they remarried but this was used against Jackson during his political career and it shamed Rachel.

Jackson believed her death just before moving to the White House was caused in great part by the stress she experienced from these political attacks against their marriage.

[JonLP24]

48. OK -- I see why you say that

but I was focusing on the article itself that led to the duel so that is why I initially skipped past that part and the duel came because of the article that insulted him so that is why I said what I said.

[Uncle Joe]

51. His denial is on shaky grounds.

"Although the actual issue that led to the duel was a horse race between Andrew Jackson and Dickinson’s father-in-law, Joseph Erwin, Jackson had confronted Dickinson over a report that he had insulted Rachel. Dickinson said if he had, he was drunk at the time and apologized. Jackson accepted his apology, but there were probably still hard feelings between the two. Jackson and Erwin had scheduled their horse race in 1805. The stakes specified a winning pot of $2,000 paid by the loser, with an $800 forfeit if a horse couldn’t run. Erwin’s horse went lame, and after a minor disagreement about the type of forfeit payment, Erwin paid.[2]:136–137"

[JonLP24]

55. I noticed that after I posted, I apologize

[Uncle Joe]

63. No problem, JonLP.

Peace to you.

[Freddie Stubbs]

59. Alexander Hamilton ($10 bill) also fought in a duel

[UnrepentantLiberal]

77. That didn't end well.

[Generic Brad]

125. And he was the main player in the first American sex scandal

That alone is worth a picture on the ten spot.

[cliffordu]

37. Didn't he shoot and kill some fucker that tried to assassinate him

on the way to his Inauguration??

[Uncle Joe]

108. After Jackson was elected, the first assassination attempt against a sitting President was tried

and apparently Jackson attacked the assailant with his cane, Davy Crockett was there as well to restrain the attacker.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_jackson

The first presidential attack was against Jackson. Jackson ordered the dismissal of Robert B. Randolph from the Navy for embezzlement. On May 6, 1833, Jackson sailed on USS Cygnet to Fredericksburg, Virginia, where he was to lay the cornerstone on a monument near the grave of Mary Ball Washington, George Washington's mother. During a stopover near Alexandria, Randolph appeared and struck the President. He fled the scene chased by several members of Jackson's party, including the well-known writer Washington Irving. Jackson decided not to press charges.[10]

On January 30, 1835, what is believed to be the first attempt to kill a sitting President of the United States occurred just outside the United States Capitol. When Jackson was leaving through the East Portico after the funeral of South Carolina Representative Warren R. Davis, Richard Lawrence, an unemployed housepainter from England, aimed a pistol at Jackson, which misfired. Lawrence pulled out a second pistol, which also misfired. Historians believe the humid weather contributed to the double misfiring.[53] Lawrence was restrained, and legend says that Jackson attacked Lawrence with his cane. Others present, including David Crockett, restrained and disarmed Lawrence.

Young Jackson Refusing to Clean Major Coffin's Boots (1876 lithograph).

[Snake Alchemist]

32. I have wondered that for a very long time. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. Because politicians like to raise their own to a godlike status.

[lpbk2713]

56. True that.

[unionworks]

36. Well....

...

[YellowRubberDuckie]

60. You do realize Johnny Horton is/was a racists moron, right?

[cherokeeprogressive]

70. I can't find any facts to back up your contention that Horton was a moron or a racist.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about a song called "I Hate N******". That song was written by a guy whose stage name was Johnny Rebel and recorded five years after Horton died at the hands of a drunk driver.

The confusion seems to stem from the fact that Horton recorded a song called "Johnny Reb".

That's the closest I can come to finding out information about Johnny Horton being a racist.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

79. His racist songs were also mistakenly attributed to

David Allan Coe.

[unionworks]

97. Wiki and other sources

State that racist songs released 5 years after Hortons death under the name "Johnny Reb" were mistakenly attributed to him. I am open if anyone has proof otherwise, I have no major investment in Hortons music, though this controversy is proving interesting.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

100. I meant that "Johnny Reb" songs were mistakenly attributed to

David Allen Coe as well.

[unionworks]

99. You may want to check your facts

It seems there's a LOT of confusion here!

[UnrepentantLiberal]

102. Believe it or not, I'm not right about everything.

But this is what someone wrote in Wikipedia:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Rebel_(singer)

Johnny Rebel is the pseudonym of Cajun country musician Clifford Joseph Trahan (born October 3, 1938), also known as Pee Wee Trahan. Trahan has used this pseudonym most notably on racist recordings issued in the 1960s on J. D. "Jay" Miller's Reb Rebel label of Crowley, Louisiana. Johnny Rebel is often misidentified as the pseudonym of David Allan Coe, and some of his songs have been misattributed to Johnny Horton. (citation needed)

[unionworks]

104. Looks like you're right on this

I had a feeling they wouldn't have given a racist ahole a bunch of grammys... by the way I am a big fan of your op's and posts. You got guts... and sometimes that's the most important thing!

[UnrepentantLiberal]

106. Why thank you. I like your posts as well.

Believe it or not, not everyone shares your opinion of me.

[unionworks]

119. Choctaw Indians and Free Blacks

...also fought on the American side of the Battle of New Orleans... just found that out. And who cares what the DINO's think of us anyway?

[UnrepentantLiberal]

121. There was a great show on the War of 1812 on the History Channel.

Fascinating war because it gets so little attention.

Yeah, you know my opinion of DINOs. No need to get a post hidden saying it.

[unionworks]

129. I'm in Erie Pa.

It was here that Commodore Perrys fleet was built, in secret behind the cover of Presque Isle peninsula, sailed out onto Lake Erie and defeated the British fleet. The recreated U.S.S. Niagra is berthed behind our beautiful bayfront library. It is so cool, the windows there facing the bay are huge, you can sit in a.c. in the summer. And look out at the boats sailing in and out, not to mention absolutely breathtaking view of Lake Erie sunsets, which have to be seen to be believed!

"We have met the DINO's, and they are ours".

[UnrepentantLiberal]

130. That sounds awesome.

I love restaurants like that.

[unionworks]

95. Actually, no.

I heard the song on a.m. radio since I was like 5, and believe it or not noone ever discussed his political opinions, etc.. Not saying I doubt you, but I will check it out, and if I find fact in your assertion, I will delete the post. No offense meant.

[unionworks]

109. YRD, I really don't think

... you would make such a hurtful assertion about a deceased artist jnless you saw something to make you believe it was deserved. I am open to loooking any anything you are willing to provide.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

117. I didn't know anything about Johnny Horton until I met my Husband's family.

Then I heard some of the music that he did, including one with a horrible racial slur, and my husband said, Yeah, I think this is why my granddad likes him. And we went on, hearing his granddad listen to the music and spout stupid racist crap. I might be wrong about him, but from his lyrics, I don't think so.

[unionworks]

118. Yes and maybe no

It seems there was indeed a song with an unrepeatable, foul racikal slur but it also seems it may have been incorrectly attributed to Horton In any case, I agree that racist slurs by any performer belong in only one place - the garbage can.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

120. You are the nicest person I've spoken to all day.

Didn't take my words out of context, blow anything out of proportion, or yell at me. Thanks!

[unionworks]

127. thank you

And I look forward to chatting again!

[Cleita]

58. I think we could replace those old guys, who were the product of their times, with

some more recent great Americans. How about Martin Luther King on the $20.00 bill? It works for me.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

66. That would be my choice.

[HiPointDem]

68. Why be hypocritical? When america is still killing people of color at home at abroad, using

slave labor & screwing workers everywhere, let us have the representatives of those policies on our money so people know what we're about.

King was assassinated for his trouble. He doesn't represent the american state or the american financial system.

[eridani]

61. A part Seminole friend of mine did housesitting for me a few years ago

I paid her in tens.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

67. I saw a show on Jackson on the History Channel.

An American Indian commented that some will not use $20 bills.

[cherokeeprogressive]

72. Then let's ban Truman's likeness and change all venues bearing his name to something else.

After all; he made the decision to drop the bomb on Japan.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

80. I wouldn't be here if he hadn't.

My father was on his way to attack the Japanese mainland when the atomic bombs were dropped.

Just sayin'

[cherokeeprogressive]

83. I was actually being facetious.

A lot of reeeeaaaaally bad things were done by people we've been taught to romanticize and revere.

I'd venture to say we'd want to wipe the slate clean and start over with NO heroes or heroines if someone compiled a list of shitty things that could be attributed to our favorite people, past AND present.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

92. Very true.

And that's just the stuff we know about.

[grantcart]

81. Atleast General Discussion has finally become topical and is now a discussion about generals.

I have been waiting years for this forum to finally get on topic!

[HiPointDem]

86. made me laugh. :)

[UnrepentantLiberal]

87. Then you'll love my General Felissimo Francisco Franco thread.

[aptal]

91. They should replace him

With some non racists Democrats. Carter, Clinton, Obama. Would be much less insulting.

[JonLP24]

96. The only reason that is clear

as to why he is on the $20 is because he is dead. So until one of those 3 die, they can't be put on currency.

[4th law of robotics]

115. They need to die first

typically living Americans are not put on money.

[aptal]

126. Oops, didn't think of that.

[Bolo Boffin]

94. Pop him loose and Grover Norquist will finally have a place for Reagan.

But your point is still valid. It is a place of honor, and there are many reasons to condemn Andrew Jackson.

But look at it this way: As hard as Jackson fought against the Bank of the United States, I'd say putting his picture on Federal Reserve Notes was the equivalent of scalping him.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

122. Okay, you win the argument with that.

His face on my $20 bills is too much to contemplate.

[surrealAmerican]

103. ... because he's the one president who would probably ...

... have considered it an insult to be on federally issued paper currency?

[AnneD]

110. Being a member of the Cherokee Nation....

I do have a dog in this fight. I have no love for Jackson. He is not a favorite. But he is long cold dead.

Past is past and after all, what with homeland security what it is today, we all live on the reservation anyway. FYI-did you know that Indian Reservations were referred to as POW camps. Yes, it took the decimation of the buffalo AND the invention of the revolver to quell the Indian uprisings-otherwise we would have a different country.

I can think of many that would be worthy of these honors, and I don't think they should be politicians. I like that the NOLA airport is the Louis Armstrong Airport and Ben Franklin is on the C note. I can't wait to see the Crazy Horse monument. I want to see the Pentagon reduced in size, given a new mission statement, and the building renamed for MLK. I like that they renamed Squaw Peak Piestewa Peak to celebrate the sacrifice of Lori Piestewa (and while her young children miss her, she looks down on them every day).

There are hundreds of people that have lead more worthy live than egotistical politicians. Most politicians these days barely stand in the peoples shadows. Now the Regan sewage recycling plant or the Boener water works I might consider, but presidents get a library and to my way of thinking-that is enough.

[Drunken Irishman]

111. Because Grover Cleveland isn't as interesting as Andrew Jackson?

I don't know - Cleveland was on the bill before Jackson. Maybe it was a joke to mock Jackson, who opposed the National Bank and paper money.

Regardless, he's on it and if we decide to take him off, you better believe Reagan would be next in line to be placed there. So, pick your guy - Reagan or Jackson? I'll go with Jackson.

[cliffordu]

112. Why is a guy who screwed Marilyn Monroe on the fifty cent piece??

I figure he ought to be on all them bearer bonds, at least.

[mwooldri]

123. I say get rid of 'em all.

Euro countries have the blandest bank notes... and the coins aren't much prettier either.

I'm personally OK with an elderly lady living in governmental housing to be pictured on my money... but then I would considering my nationality.

However money is money and these days one is more likely to be looking at a piece of plastic than a piece of paper... go to Australia and there isn't any paper around, it's all plastic.