General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsKen Burns' documentary, "The Roosevelts" on PBS
If you missed it last night, don't miss the rest.
I consider Einstein the greatest person of the 20th Century. But when it comes to politics, Theodore, Franklin and Eleanor changed our lives forever. We can thank them for so much. And it's that "so much" that the Republican Party has always tried, and is still trying, to destroy.
The first part was on PBS from 8:00pm to 10:00pm last night. Catch the rest which is on PBS from 8 to 10 every night this week. Do yourself a favor and don't miss it.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)it if possible.
big_dog
(4,144 posts)and the First Lady of course
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)A lot of his legendary sayings and deeds weren't just other people talking him up--he actively promoted his own story. He fought like a dog to be awarded the Medal of Honor (didn't get it) because he felt he had been appropriately brave and probably wanted it for his political career. John McCain always said Roosevelt was his hero, and there are a lot of parallels--the war mongering, the opposing of one's own party for attention, the tireless self-promotion and taking reporters everywhere to coddle favorable relationships with them...
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)to catapult his own propaganda.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)put off by Teddy altogether. He seems to have been somewhat ... unhinged.
TwilightGardener
(46,416 posts)I'm certain that animals were generally not treated well back then by today's standards, and he shot (hunted) anything and everything wild that moved, but shit...that's just mean.
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)Those were the two words I associated with him after last night's program.
mckara
(1,708 posts)It's better not to judge historical characters with today's zeitgeist. Theodore Roosevelt was a man of his times, and probably, the only genius to occupy the office. His warmongering was a reflection of the United States becoming a world power and the necessity of preemptively eliminating the need of enforcing the Monroe Doctrine by preventing new European powers from replacing a declining Spanish Empire in the Caribbean and the Pacific Basins. It was much easier to fight Spain than Germany or Great Britain.
His ideas of society directly reflected social Darwinism in which nations, cultures, and races were in competition for supremacy. The national parks were his vision of game reserves for the elite to hunt wild game as part of their training to become leaders who could ruthlessly dominate Nature and humanity in order for Anglo-American democracy to control the world.
Nobody called him Teddy to his face.
He was a very complex man.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)unhinged.
Last edited Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:09 PM - Edit history (1)
His progressive ideas of fighting government and business corruption changed American politics as he began busting up corporate monopolies, regulating railroads, food products, and drugs. He became the best friend to common Americans that they had ever seen in the oval office [he built the West Wing] and he was the first conservationist. Most importantly, he worked to spread American influence around the world, not necessarily for economic interests. In 1893, he agreed with Frederick Jackson Turner's essay/speech, The Significance of the Frontier in American in American History, and saw American expansion overseas as a necessary means to continue purification of Democracy, as Turner observed in the settling of the West. Progressive change began on the Frontier with women's suffrage, coeducational education, direct election of senators, and the collective voice of citizens using government to remedy problems too vast for individuals, groups, or states to solve alone. That progressive notions lives with those of us here on the left!!!
Most importantly, he dedicated his life to expanding the United States Navy!
Go Navy/Beat Army!!!
frazzled
(18,402 posts)Though I would disagree that American expansionism (or the so-called "purification" of Democracy) was/is an idea without its attendant downsides. (Ask the Native Americans about that settling of the West.) And we clearly saw the personal and public deficits of TR's character. And if you're saying that Roosevelt's ushering in the era of empire was a marvel of democratic virtue, I'm not sure too many of today's progressives would agree. He also ushered in the era of the imperial presidency. How's that workin' for ya?
As I said, cherry picking the stuff you like is fine, but it's not analysis. And it's not something our progressive left applies to the current president. So while you are extolling the virtues of TR and ignoring all his deficits, today we rail against all the deficits of the PBO and ignore any of his virtues.
It sounds as if you truly worship at the altar of Teddy Roosevelt, buying into all the manly man cult of personality stuff that has grown up around him, especially since the Reagan era (he was Ronny's favorite, too). Me, I'm an Eleanor Roosevelt fan ... now there's someone who put herself on the line with the people. She appears to be something of a footnote in this documentary, however.
Teddy Roosevelt still appears to have been a bit unhinged.
mckara
(1,708 posts)Turner's Frontier Thesis changed the course of American history. Read it and you'll understand how the Frontier "purified" democracy and how its lessons affected American foreign policy for the next century. TR and Woodrow Wilson were in concurrence with Turner as were others. Did you ever wonder where JFK got the name for "The Last Frontier"?
As a historian, I try to analyze historical figures objectively. Roosevelt had his flaws, as did most of the ruling class in the late XIXth and early XXth century, if we judge individuals with XXIst century standards. Your criticism of TR has no context to the tenor of the times. We all know that Native Americans lost the battle for control of North American. Who ever said social Darwinism was a good thing? Its battles were fought around the world until concentration camps in Nazi Germany demonstrated its psychotic implications. Ideas come into favor and fade from memories as time exposes their flaws or their virtues gain timeless acceptance as part of human social evolution. Whether you think it was good or bad is irrelevant. It's part of the historical record. People believed in ideas that seemed rational in their eyes, not because they were good or bad people. Most of time they acted with the best intentions. In hindsight, we know the road to hell was paved with good intentions. C'est la vie and history!
JimDandy
(7,318 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)or was dealt to by him at San Juan and Kettle Hill. Theodore ain't shit! He did not deserve any fucking medal, my grandfather did and people in his unit. Oh never mind they were black, never would have happened anyway.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)I'm sure they had some effect on it. I was born in 1946 and remember news stories about Eleanor.
I thought Obama would take a hint from FDR and have a new New Deal.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Unions, social security, unemployment insurance and so much more from Teddy and Franklin. And they both went after and defied the robber barons (the Koch's of their day). They took on the kind of people who are running things and screwing this country today.
Eleanor etched women's rights in concrete. And she was the first American Ambassador to the United Nations.
Don't just watch Ken Burns' documentary. Read about them. It's so, so important. These people were giants of human rights. And role models for human decency in spite of their personal flaws and demons.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)the Roosevelts
jwirr
(39,215 posts)think how much worse our corporatism would be if he had not used his big stick against them.
And if you are thinking that FDR did not effect you then you need to keep watching the series to see how. You will recognize much of it. Almost everything around us today was set in motion before you were born. I was born in 1941. I was here when he did these things but of course I do not remember them first hand. My first memory in this series will be FDR's funeral in 1945.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Kids were working 14 hours a day 7 days a week in coal mines.
And the National Parks were a large part of his legacy. Despite another poster's ludicrous claims (that he merely wanted to set them aside for rich people to hunt in) they were and always meant for the people. John Muir was very influential in the designation of these parks as well and he was not a member of the financial elite.
If TR was running today he would be -- at best -- a center right Republican and probably not at all welcome in the party given its current state.
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)And the progressive movement built the middle class in this country and through their economic progressivism, made possible to many the fulfillment of the declaration of independence's promise of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." You've likely had a good life, enjoying in the prosperity of America, because of them, otherwise America would've been a third world country where the rich prosper while everyone else suffered (and unfortunately, America's going back in that direction due to 30 years of Reaganomics.)
jwirr
(39,215 posts)Le Taz Hot
(22,271 posts)PBS has it up now:
http://video.pbs.org/video/2365313112/
justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)tammywammy
(26,582 posts)I watched last night, but I'm going to miss tonight. Glad to know it'll be up on the Roku channel.
progressoid
(49,990 posts)SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)One of our PBS channels is running the series at 1:30 AM & 3:30 AM..fantastic for my DVR
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)I learned things! That is always good.
pleinair
(171 posts)Eagerly awaiting the next episode tonight
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)watch and "get it." Perhaps some who have been brainwashed, or haven't been exposed to recent history, will start to understand who tried to help them to a better life. -- And who is trying to screw them out of a better life.
pleinair
(171 posts)Reel 'm in with Teddy R the warmonger & let them be mesmerized by FDR's & Eleanor's humanitarianism
mountain grammy
(26,620 posts)SleeplessinSoCal
(9,118 posts)His "Blood Lust" was in him since childhood along side asthma and physical weakness. His will to overcome admirable and inspiring, but singular.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)Wouldn't last through one news cycle.
That's how nuts they have become. TR is too "progressive" for their party. And I've had more than one Repug tell me in recent years they grew up admiring him but now think he was too much of a "leftist".
merrily
(45,251 posts)AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Theodore ushered in the progressive movement that in 20 years, undid the control that Corporate America had on the Government and the people. Franklin D. Roosevelt rescued America from the destruction that the resurgence of Right Wing Economics did, and implemented a progressive tax system that prevented people from getting too rich and allowed the middle class to control America for decades (until Reagan dropped the tax rate on the rich, allowing the rich to grow obscenely wealthy again.)
We need another Roosevelt in office. Having an aggressive economic progressive in office in the mold of the historical progressive presidents is much more important than having someone in office that makes a landmark as being the "first woman president" or "first openly gay president", etc...
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)or "President" Elizabeth Warren. But he/she would need a Democratic House and Senate behind them to turn concepts and values into law. Not to mention replacing at least one knuckle dragger on the Supreme Court.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)This is what we need in a president, but we need someone that can match and beat Republicans in levels of aggressiveness, being able to rally and unite the people in "beating down the doors" of congress and bullying congressional representatives and senators into doing the will of the people and to reinstate the progressive tax system (including the top tax rate of 77 to 91 percent) that FDR used to maintain economic equality in America.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Cyrano
(15,035 posts)These are three people who changed this country for the better. If Teddy were around today, he'd come down on the Koch Bros. with all the power of the federal govt.
No one is all good or all bad. Teddy, and especially Franklin and Eleanor, did everything they could to make this a better world in the way few people have an opportunity to do.
pansypoo53219
(20,976 posts)he was high octane period. probably a effect of growing up the sick kid.
skippy66
(57 posts)From Teddy's father
"Not all democrats are horse thieves. But all horse thieves are democrats"
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)All is well in the world.
But don't self-delete that other thread. It's goin' places.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)can't see this thread unless I go to "My Posts."
The DU Gods are displeased with me. I'll never see Ithica again.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Go to My Account - Trash Can. Your OP is probably there. You likely hit the little grey x when you were trying to open your OP and sent it to the backwaters of your DU.
No worries. It was fun.
pinboy3niner
(53,339 posts)Say it isn't so!
No, it's no big deal. Whether a Trash Thread mistake or a DU glitch, Cyrano got in another fun thread and he's a good sport about it.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)Maybe it's a group.
I adored that OP. Cyrano is a good sport, and my hero for today.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Thank you, thank you, thank you LiberalAndProud.
The bad news is that I restored it and it's still not showing up. Nonetheless, Malaise put up a post about the show ("The Roosevelts" and hopefully, many people will be aware of it and watch it.
I don't need "credit" for posting about it. I just want as many people as possible to watch it. Tell everyone you know about it. That's what I'm doing.
And thanks again for telling me I trashed my own post.
LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)damn thing keeps sinking.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025539953
locked.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)contradictory. Have to wait and see if he evolved from the war mongering phase, wonder if he thought about the effects of war on the Environment eg.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)Call Congress right fucking now!
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I'm not going to watch every night, but I will record the block at the end of the week and watch it then.
FSogol
(45,484 posts)LiberalAndProud
(12,799 posts)I got here from the Greatest page so, the word's getting out even if you can't see your thread is invisible to you.
Also, thanks for the OP.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Cyrano
(15,035 posts)watch all the episodes. It's on every night this week from 8 to 10 on PBS. It's more than just a TV show. It's important. It matters.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)I too recommend it.
Cyrano
(15,035 posts)This is the best publicity for the Democratic view of the world that I've seen on TV for a long time.
The Republicans might not mention it at all for fear that people will watch it.
On the other hand, they might have a screaming shit fit about how it's all "propaganda to advance the socialist, liberal commie agenda."