Afraid of ISIS?

[WilliamPitt]

A wee public service announcement for those who are feeling The Fear because some intelligence reports suggest ISIS is a direct threat to this country within our borders:

There is always intelligence that claims something here or there is a direct, dire threat. Intelligence organizations prepare three versions of these reports: Worst Case, Best Case and Middle Case. Depending on what they want to happen, they tailor the delivery and wording of their reports. That is old, old, old fact, and always political...with a dash of make-war-pay-my-friends thrown in for good measure all too often.

Case in point: There were intelligence reports that said Iraq had:

* 26,000 liters of anthrax

* 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin

* 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX gas

* Mobile biological weapons labs

* Chemical-bomb drones that could strike the US mainland

* Uranium from Niger for use in a "robust" nuclear weapons program

* Connections to al-Qaeda that led directly to the attacks of September 11

How'd that work out?



"I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again..."

[Sopkoviak]

1. So aside from social media and main street news

Who else do you suspect of spreading the "terror"?

And for what purpose?

It seems much of it is coming from governments, including our own.

And Joe "Gates of Hell" Biden sure stirred the shitte didn't he.

[Johonny]

2. Yellow Cake!

[yuiyoshida]

52. ooooh my gawdd!!!

sorry...for a moment, I got hungry.

[BlueCaliDem]

62. Mmm...corn bread with some honey-butter. My favorite!

[samsingh]

3. there are some major 'buts'

Iraq was not executing tens of thousands of people. they were not actively recruiting for more members.

watching isis is like watching Al Qaeda forming in afganistan.

[WilliamPitt]

4. Tens of thousands?

Rilly?

[leftynyc]

5. Between Syria and Iraq

yes - I think it's in the tens of thousands. Here's an article about 5500 killed in just Iraq:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/18/iraqi-civilian-death-toll-5500-2014-isis

Almost 200,000 killed in Syria and I'm betting they weren't all killed by al assad.

[progressoid]

28. Amateurs.

They have a lot of catching up to do to rival the damage we did in Iraq.

[leftynyc]

36. Not really the point, is it? (n/t)

[progressoid]

43. I dunno. What is the point?

Our success rate in meddling in Middle East conflicts?

[BlueCaliDem]

63. Well, installing Saddam Hussein *did* keep radical-Muslims in check, didn't it?

And I believe the U.S. was the one who did.

And then Election 2000 rolled around and people got too comfortable, thinking, "Hey! Peace and prosperity, thanks to President Clinton and Democrats so ... what harm can it do to try and vote for a stronger Liberal than Gore?" Enter Nader, splitting the vote, and we get a lying "compassionate conservative" Republican in the WH who was hell-bent on war in Iraq. And he got it.

Were Saddam Hussein alive today, he would've dealt with ISIS and they wouldn't have stood a chance. They wouldn't have the weapons to, as they do now, having stolen all U.S. weaponry from Iraq that Bush's war had imported.

We need to ensure that we have a Democratic president in the WH for, well, forever. It's vital to keeping the peace as much as possible in this volatile world as well as our civil rights.

[leftynyc]

77. Uh - no

The post was asking whether isis had killed tens of thousands. I answered yes with a link to an article and once again DUers felt it necessary to deflect to another topic.

[AgingAmerican]

49. Everytime we go into Iraq

It is worse after we leave.

[leftynyc]

78. I have no argument with that statement at all

That doesn't mean isis hasn't killed tens of thousands of Iraqi's and Syrians which was what I was responding to.

[Amonester]

8. When including the children they teach to hate 24/7, yes.

Nice morals they have over there...

Watching from abroad, you ain't condoning that for sure.

[WilliamPitt]

9. Their children are the only ones taught to hate?

How many American kids are taught to hate "ragheads"?

How many of them join the military and get shipped overseas?

How many of them get taught to hate Black people?

How many of them join the police?

How many of them are taught to hate gay people because of Jesus, or whatever?

How many of them commit hate crimes?

This:



...is a glass house. Best not to throw stones.

[Amonester]

12. Although you've got a point that needs adressing (not my job)...

They're not thought to hate from inside their classrooms...

[WilliamPitt]

13. Really.

Creationism is being taught in public schools in Texas and Louisiana. Science is being dismissed outright in many other states. The fog of ignorance leads to the easy promulgation of hate, and yes, it is happening in classrooms all across America...and that's just in the public schools.

[Amonester]

15. What can I answer other than not in my civilized country?

When will these "exceptional" States join the civilized world?

[BobbyBoring]

45. That is scarier than ISIS IMHO

N/t

Changed O to I

[Renew Deal]

24. Joining the police is a form of hatred?

[WilliamPitt]

27. Yeah, because that's what I said.

[ncjustice80]

79. In a way, yes.

The only reason to do so is so you can dominate/control others. Most cops loathing of poor and colored ppl is only matched by the hate they must have for themselves.

[Scootaloo]

61. What the poster is getting at...

Is that hate is only bad when it's "those people."

[Boudica the Lyoness]

72. I looked at some news reports about

what ISIS is teaching their children, to post here. They teach them to behead.

I saw something so graphic about what they are doing to Christian children, I feel sick. There's nothing in modern day American that can compare to what they are doing.

[CJCRANE]

53. A lot of them are westerners and other foreigners.

It's basically a foreign invasion.

[sabrina 1]

7. So then we went in and executed a million of THEM. Mostly Sunnis in the beginning.

Men, women and children, and we tortured and imprisoned untold more of them. Our illegal invasion created so much violence in Iraq, remember the beheadings, the Death Squads, they were OURS btw, the piles of bodies, some decapitated, flouting in rivers, the blood running down the streets?

Bush/Cheney/Rummy et al created so much violence in that country that FOUR MILLION of their citizens fled. A population of approx 24 million, that is quite a percentage of people driven out by the violence.

I'm curious, do you know where those refugees from our violent and brutal invasion are today?

Guess it's not important and not as 'brutal' when we do it.

Anyhow, once we slaughtered all those people, destroyed their infrastructure, turned their country from a relatively stable place into a futuristic nightmare, we hired a puppet, Maliki, to sign over their resources, OIL, over 80% of it to Global Oil Corporations. Thanks to Dennis Kucinich we learned about that 'secret deal'.

The Iraq people didn't like that, so they went out and peacefully protested, naively thinking WE had created a 'democracy' there where they were now free, unlike under Saddam, to protest peacefully.

That was a mistake. Our puppet Maliki sent out the US trained police to shoot them, arrest them and torture them, see Manning's attempt to try to stop that, she is now in jail, the torturers roam free.

ISIS, well, we always need 'proxies' as we continue our invasions of various ME nations, see the PNAC. We needed them in Syria and in Libya eg. So we sent WEAPONS to the 'protesters' or whoever they were so long as they were willing to help us achieve our goals, at least temporarily.

ISIS is a direct result of our neocon policies. Many of them according to reports, from the Sunni population which we so brutally attacked, and our stooge in Iraq, ostracized after we created our 'democracy' there.

Do you think that the very country that helped create this group should be ones to claim the moral high ground and repeat what caused them to exist in the first place?

The neocons are smiling, that much we know. 'We will turn the ME into a glass parking lot' Michael Ledeen neocon extraordinaire, paraphrased speaking about US FP in the ME. He got what he wanted, sadly for all of us.

[ncjustice80]

80. Exactly. This is why we must abandon the Middle East.

We do nothing but fuck up other countries. Let them sort their own stuff out without our imperialistic meddling!

[polly7]

93. +1000

Sorry Sabrina, I'd add more but have to correct every single word with this *'ing cast. Great reminder ,sad as it is.

[sabrina 1]

95. Sorry about your hand, Polly, hope it heals quickly. Your posts are gold on this forum.

Yes, a sad run down, just the tip of the iceberg of the horrors we inflicted on that population. I remember how every day there was more horror to try to deal with, the desperate feeling that we had failed to protect those people.

I don't care what names we are called for trying, once again, to stop any more of this. In Iraq, in Ukraine. The neocons are getting bolder now, more ambitious, they want Syria and back to Iraq, Iran, Ukraine and if they are not stopped, a third world war with Russia.

It's insane.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

6. For myself no, for others yes.

I think that ISIS is probably going to go on killing large numbers of innocent people.

I do not expect them to ever kill large numbers of people in the first world.

On edit: I've just realised how many, many things I could have written in place of "ISIS" in that sentence: any number of violent groups (the Taleban, Boko Haram, the LRA, etc), diseases (malaria, cholera, TB etc), social ills (starvation, malnutrition, warfare), and so on and so forth. It's a basic theme of existence, sadly.

[Feral Child]

37. You didn't mention

The US Air Force.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

39. Or space rabbits. N.T.

[Feral Child]

67. Not sure I get your response.

You listed many things, other than ISIS, responsible for countless deaths of innocents. Our AF clearly belongs on that list.

Space rabbits? Are you equivocating?

[Maedhros]

10. Of course! I'm terrified of ISIS!

Just like I've been told to be.

[corkhead]

16. My Fox News spewing gas pump tells me I should be more afraid of Ebola

[KittyWampus]

11. There was also a report "Bin Laden Determined To Strike".

[Nye Bevan]

22. Oh c'mon. Pretty far-fetched stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bin_Ladin_Determined_To_Strike_in_US

Can't really blame Bush for ignoring it. About as likely as Karl Rove being indicted, really.

[KittyWampus]

25. -snicker-

I'll never forget watching Kerry get Condie Rice to admit it.

Of course, if you think the POTUS is a piece of shit used car salesman, I guess you'd automatically just expect him to ignore real intelligence and trump up bogus threats.

[MohRokTah]

38. You win the thread!

The OP is really comparing apples to fish.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

14. It's our patriotic duty to be terrified of all the current bogeymen.

[KittyWampus]

18. and apparently it's also some people's duty to pretend there are no threats whatsoever.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. Do you feel threatened and/or terrified?

I don't.

[KittyWampus]

23. No, but that doesn't mean I'm going to pretend there is no possible threat.

See how that works?

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Yes, and there's a threat that a meteorite may slam into your car.

Or, that a girl scout might attack you with a box of cookies.

I'm much more inclined to believe that the threat posed by ISIS or other psychopaths are highly exaggerated just like Saddam's WMD and the influx of child refugees from Latin America.

[Hissyspit]

89. I didn't "pretend" there was no possible threat before 9/11 either.

[morningfog]

30. So what is the threat to the US?

[msanthrope]

55. Currently, the best intelligence we have indicates that ISIS

does not have the operational capabilities as Al Qaeda did pre9-11. So large scale terror attacks are not in the works. But, small cell and copycat attacks are a definite possibility, using high-value targets.

This indicates a careful monitoring of chatter is in order, and situational awareness in public places. Not panic.

[morningfog]

64. Agreed. And not war.

[msanthrope]

84. Well, more like coordinated limited military action and intelligence operations designed to

cut them off at the knees.

[uppityperson]

17. It is difficult to tell when the wolf is real, but having been deceived often does not mean

the wolf is not real at some time.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

19. isis is not a secular state actor like saddam. its far more akin to al qaeda and emerged

from al qaeda in iraq.

i am not arguing for boots on the ground, just for relative accuracy in analogies.

[Horse with no Name]

20. yeah a friend was just on facebook saying that they were "terrified of 9/11"

Jesus Christ.

Have I not been paying close enough attention to know that I should be scared shitless about something???

[Amonester]

26. No. I'm busy watching the US Open Tennis Tournament.

Enjoying every minute of it.

[DinahMoeHum]

29. My response to fearmongers: Neah neah-neah neah neah. . .

. . .booga booga booga.

[Nye Bevan]

32. I expect them to strike within 24 business hours.

Last edited Thu Sep 4, 2014, 02:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Bank it.

[flamingdem]

35. I hear they only work 9-5

[Nuclear Unicorn]

33. * "Bin Laden determined to strike in US" -- Presidential Daily Briefing. August 8, 2001

[WilliamPitt]

34. Using 9/11 to gin up fear and paranoia.

Original.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

46. For someone who supposedly makes his living through writing and analysis

you aren't very good at it. Snark is not a counter-argument; it's a pouter's concession. If you play the snide, snarky rhetoric game with me I'll hand it back to you pound for pound, wrapped with ribbons and a bow.

The PDBs that warned Bush of UBL's designs are a matter of fact that went unheeded and became a national tragedy that has served as the pretext of a decade and a half of war with no end in sight. The threat was real. Yet, here you are arguing that the warnings may as well have been ignored because the intelligence services are not to be trusted. Which is it? When are they to be trusted and when are they to be distrusted?

If, Heaven forbid, ISIS is able to succeed in an attack against the US it will be Obama's head on a pike, not yours. You're safe, as you always have been. You won't even be the one on the ground in Iraq and/or Syria. You'll be typing away about how stupid the American people are for turning the Democrats out of office for allowing a second 9/11 with nary a mention that you all but begged Obama to ignore the warnings.

[Dreamer Tatum]

56. It is what I call the Bullshitter's Privilege

Not being accountable for anything. If there isn't an attack, it's "Toldja So!" and if there IS one, it'll be redirection (if it happens under a (D) POTUS) and "Was this LIHOP or MIHOP?" in the case of an (R) POTUS.

In either scenario, to paraphase and abuse Orwell, Will Pitt will sleep well at night, knowing his Bullshitter's Privilege will be protected by men ready to do violence on his behalf.

Let's just pray that a piece of shit used car salesman is up to the task if an attack happens anytime soon.

[Zorra]

98. OMG! "TEH FEAR" IS HERE! WE"RE GONNA BE ATTACKED!!!1!!1

............................Be afraid. Be very afraid.

[AgingAmerican]

73. Obama's head on a pike?

Every time we go into Iraq, it is worse after we leave...EVERY TIME! So we are to spend a few more $trillion and radicalize the Middle East even more to save Obama from embarrassment? Cuz the GOP will jump up and down and say mean stuff and things if we don't march headlong back into another war?

How about we spend a few trillion developing non fossil fuel energy sources and just GTFO out of the Middle east? Or would that risk pissing off the GOP too, and we all know that we should be paralyzed at the thought of that happening, right?

[msanthrope]

48. I am quite interested in your reply to post #46. Still waiting. nt

[Hissyspit]

76. He did reply. In his next post.

[msanthrope]

83. Um, no. Mr. Pitt has not replied to post #46. nt

[Chathamization]

59. Quick! Which one of these things could have prevented the 9/11 attacks?

A. If the Bush administration had told the US to freak out and buy duct tape and plastic bags.

B. Bombing the desert. Might hit a terrorist, or a wedding party, or a lizard or something.

C. The CIA informing other agencies when they know that al Qaeda operatives have entered the country, instead of hiding it because, hey, screw the FBI.

[RobertEarl]

110. And you will note

They talk about putting Obama's head on a pike if he screws up like bush did.

Yet they don't go after the bastard for 9/11 happening. WTF?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

112. No. That paragraph refers to an anticipated electoral backlash. nt

[Ilsa]

40. But but but ISIS is bringing us a mushroom cloud! nt

Edited to cap ISIS.

[MohRokTah]

41. Islamic State is ABSOLUTELY an existential threat to the domestic security of the United States.

There is absolutely no doubt whatsoever in my mind this is the case. They have recruited American citizens and there are American citizens on the ground fighting for Islamic State RIGHT NOW.

That said, the threat posed to domestic security is that traiing beyond battlefield tactics will be conducted with some of these American citizens who then return to this country in order to carry out terrorist acts on American soil.

This threat is of concern to two parts of the Federal government. First and foremost, to intelligence gathering agencies in order to identify these American citizens and to track their movements outside of the United States.

Their part in this threat begins and ends there. The next step is to hand over this information to Federal law enforcement officials to handle the threat domestically as a law enforcement issue.

[NCTraveler]

42. My fear of ISIS......

My fear of ISIS rest solely in my fear of our government and the reaction they have to their own fear of ISIS.

[Playinghardball]

44. I Love The Who...

[littlemissmartypants]

54. That's what I vote for, more The Who.

Less the what and why. Too complicated.

[polly7]

47. I'm afraid for the people they're brutalizing,

and would love to know exactly who's financing this horror and supplying the weaponry. I do believe it's got shades of Iraq written all over it again, the scope and brutality of their horror is terrifying - again, not for me, but for those in their path.

[ncjustice80]

81. George W. Bush. nt

[suffragette]

101. Exactly. And for all we've given up to fund our "security state" in financing for social

programs, in privacy, in basic rights, this information still seems spotty.

[hrmjustin]

50. It is in the back in the mind when I am on the subeays, bridges, and crowds but

that is life in NYC.

[sinkingfeeling]

51. I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm more afraid of the RW crazies with

their guns than I am of any foreign 'threat'.

[msanthrope]

57. Afraid of the Boston Marathon, Will?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10024824233

Obviously, you assessed the danger rationally, taking into account the past, and the current intelligence and security available to you.

Some of us are capable of doing so with ISIS. Come join us.

[RobertEarl]

111. What kind of game are you playing, ms?

Pitt is a reporter. He didn't allow 9/11 to happen. But I note you don't say anything bad about the murderer bush. But you badger Will?

F"N weird game you're playing.

[WilliamPitt]

58. *ahem*

From that far-left Commie socialist terrorist-loving bastion of non-military thinking called Foreign Policy Magazine:

United States Counterterrorism Chief Says Islamic State Is Not Planning an Attack on the U.S.
http://complex.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/09/03/counterterrorism_chief_says_islamic_state_is_not_planning_an_attack_on_america

[Turborama]

105. American Jihadists in Syria Could Bring Fight Home U.S. Official (Olsen) Warns *cough*

What he was saying at the end of July, before he was seemingly handled...

ASPEN, Colo. — The top U.S. counterterrorism official said that the brutal Syrian civil war poses an increasing threat to the American homeland after a recent spike in the number of foreign fighters engaging in the conflict, gaining battlefield experience they could potentially use against the United States and Europe.

=snip=

The counterterrorism chief said that the U.S. intelligence community's persistent difficulty in collecting detailed information about the fighting in Syria made it hard to trace the American and European militants once they made it to the battlefield.

Those challenges continue when the fighters return home. Olsen said it was difficult to identify and track those militants because they included both Syrians living in the United States and fighters from other ethnicities and nationalities. He said the Islamic State, which is leading the fighting in Syria, runs sophisticated English-language websites designed to help radicalize even larger numbers of Westerners and potentially convince them to join the battle.

Olsen said that once there, the militants would find a growing swath of territory inside both Syria and Iraq that is rapidly turning into a safe haven for militants interested in launching attacks both there and elsewhere in the world. He said there were senior al Qaeda leaders in Syria training foreign fighters and taking advantage of their ability to plan attacks elsewhere with little interference.

Syria, Olsen said, was providing safe havens that were starting "to be reminiscent of what we faced before 9/11 in Afghanistan."

Full article: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:yoN-SMnha5oJ:complex.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2014/07/25/american_jihadists_in_syria_could_bring_fight_home_us_official_warns+&cd=1&hl=de&ct=clnk&gl=ch

[Hissyspit]

118. So which is true?

Talking heads talking out of both sides of their mouths.

Can't imagine why people are being asked to be skeptical.

[Turborama]

120. Well, there is a strong possibility some American jihadis will return

What they plan to do when they get back, if they aren't caught when returning, is unpredictable - unless undercover operatives have successfully infiltrated their network.

That's my take on it so far, anyway.

[Hissyspit]

121. There's always a strong possibility of everything, apparently.

[Turborama]

122. Yeah, there's also a strong possibility none of them plan to ever go back to the US

Apparently.

[Initech]

60. I'm more afraid of our militarized police force than I am of Isis.

[Autumn Colors]

65. YESSSS!!!!!

She's absolutely terrifying, don't you think?



Sorry, couldn't resist.

~~ Autumn Colors (servant of Isis)

[Jack Rabbit]

66. My main fear and loathing of ISIS comes as a citizen of the world

I don't know about anybody else here, but whenever a American journalist or an Iraqi Shiite or an Iraqi Christian or a Kurd is tortured and murdered, the bell tolls for me, too. When it tolls for children in Gaza or black American teenagers in Sanford, Florida or Furguson, Missouri, it tolls for all humanists.

Fuck the crooked governments in Iraq and Syria; for that matter, fuck the crooked government in the US whose main raison d'etre nowadays is figuring out new and more clever ways to transfer money from taxpayers to arms manufacturers and defense contractors, not to mention crooked bankers and industrial polluters.

The principle problem with Will's OP is simply that ISIS is not Saddam. Saddam was a bloody tyrant with brains, as compared to Osama, a bloody tyrant with money. Caliph al-Baghdadi is just a bloody tyrant. Yes, he would try to strike in the US, just as Osama did. He is, after all, trying to coax the US into war that American citizens couldn't stop fast enough. Unfortunately, he's doing a good job of accomplishing that mission and doesn't really need any of the unwitting assistance he gets from Senators McCain or Graham or his fellow right wing morons on American hate radio.

The problem is whether or not "our" government, which really isn't ours any more, is going to respond to ISIS more intelligently than a couple of other bloody tyrants, the Frat Boy and the Big Dick, responded to Osama and the September 11 attacks.

[polly7]

69. +1000. nt.

[KittyWampus]

74. Glad you posted that. Well said. It deserves an OP.

[alarimer]

116. ISIS seems to be very different than your average terrorist org.

They seem more like an army. One that's well-funded and supplied. I think whatever we do should be aimed at this aspect of it. Maybe shutting down the flow of money and arms would go a long way to getting rid of them.

Yes, I am a little bit worried at the left's dismissal of this organization as "just another right-wing bogeyman." It seems dismissive of the people who are genuinely threatened by this group and the ones who have already died at their hands. Murdering kidnapped journalists (and others) is not something we should just let stand.

BUT, what to do about it, I really have no idea.

[abakan]

68. If I am to fear a boogyman...

I choose republicans and ebola.

[RufusTFirefly]

70. Not only that, but those bloodthirsty Sandinistas are just a day's drive from Harlingen, Texas!

Get your duct tape and your plastic sheeting ready, lemmings!

[heaven05]

71. yep

[whatchamacallit]

75. K&R n/t

[pampango]

82. "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist."

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

There are any number of bad actors in the world. There have always been bad guys and groups of bad guys. I don't propose to ignore them but don't propose to stay awake at night, either. If they are bad, we all should do something about them even if they do not threaten me personally.

[Autumn]

85. Nah, fuck em. Mr. Olsen says they are not planning an attack on us and

strangley enough I trust him on this.

[sub.theory]

86. Are you kidding me?!!

This is a group that has been savagely CUTTING PEOPLE'S HEADS OFF and proudly videotaping it! Raping God only knows how many women and girls. Selling women and girls like property. None of which they have been the least bit secret about - in fact they consider it their rightful "spoils of war". They have mass murdered unarmed men and proudly videotaped it. All of this they open boast to the world. They are proud of it!

They have said they intend to raise the ISIS flag over the White House. They seek to establish a global Islamic caliphate and fully intend to kill anyone that doesn't accept their divine right to rule. Or who doesn't believe EXACTLY what they do. All of this has been plastered everywhere on social media. There's nothing ambiguous about it. It doesn't get any more clear cut.

And yet you want to pretend that this isn't really a big deal and we should just mind our own business? Seriously?! In what universe is this the same as the 2003 Iraq invasion? This group deserves eradication for what they have done to the poor innocents in Iraq and Syria alone. They are absolute monsters. And they are proud of it!!!

[Hissyspit]

87. No, he's not kidding you.

He's well versed in being skeptical of the type of hysteria and propaganda you seem to accept unquestioningly.

[sub.theory]

88. Right, it's all a conspiracy

The hundreds, possibly thousands, of videos and pictures of ISIS atrocities are just American propaganda. Amnesty International is a CIA front I guess when they note these same atrocities. The UN is a propaganda outfit too. The interviews and testimony of mass murders and rapes at the hands of these monsters - I suppose they are just actors?

Of course, you and Will know "the real truth", right, Hissyspit? Being so well versed and all. Yep, it's all a conspiracy.

And Obama's in on it too. And Elizabeth Warren. And Al Frankton. My what a propaganda bonanza this all is...

[Hissyspit]

90. Yeah, I said it was a conspiracy...

Since when does atrocities (which happen all the time) equal risk of attack on our soil? Where did I say atrocities weren't happening?

When seen this movie before. Sorry, not playing your game.

Obama administration official:

The United States' senior counterterrorism official said on Wednesday that there is "no credible information" that the militants of the Islamic State, who have reigned terror on Iraq and Syria, are planning to attack the U.S. homeland. Although the group could pose a threat to the United States if left unchecked, any plot it tried launching today would be "limited in scope" and "nothing like a 9/11-scale attack."

That assessment by National Counterterrorism Center Director Matthew Olsen stands in sharp contrast to dire warnings from other top Obama administration officials, who depict the group formerly known as ISIS or ISIL as the greatest threat to America since al Qaeda before it struck U.S. soil on Sept. 11, 2001.

Mere weeks ago, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the Islamic State, which has conquered territory across Iraq and Syria, establishing a self-proclaimed caliphate, "is as sophisticated and well-funded as any group that we have seen. They're beyond just a terrorist group." Previously, Gen. Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, warned that the Sunni militant group would evolve into a "transregional and global threat" unless directly countered in Syria, its base of operations. Secretary of State John Kerry said that "ISIL and the wickedness it represents must be destroyed"; President Barack Obama warned two weeks ago that "there has to be a common effort to extract this cancer so that it does not spread."

But Olsen, whose organization was set up after 9/11 to assess terrorism intelligence and "connect the dots" about potential attacks, painted a more measured picture of the fundamentalist group. "ISIL is not al Qaeda pre-9/11," Olsen told a Brookings Institution audience on Wednesday, Sept. 3. Osama bin Laden's network had covert cells in European countries and Southeast Asia, as well as a home base in Afghanistan. The Islamic State is "not there yet," Olsen said. There is "no indication at this point of a cell of foreign fighters operating in the United States."

[sub.theory]

91. Nice gaslighting

You said plain as day that it was propaganda. That implies conspiracy to manipulate the public. Don't try and gaslight me otherwise.

You're also trying to move the goalposts. Now you are claiming that ISIS isn't an imminent threat. Yes, few people in Washington think that ISIS has the immediate capability to attack, but the medium and long term risk is very real, and there has been near universal agreement on that point. I refer you to the very clear comments made by Dempsey and Hagel on just that point. I guess we are supposed to wait until they are even stronger to deal with them?

Look, what is ambiguous here? This is a group that is committing monstrous atrocities. That openly claims the desire to create a global caliphate. That openly says they will kill all the unbelievers and apostates (anyone who doesn't believe exactly what they do). That has vowed to drown us in blood. Just what is ambiguous? How is this in any way like 2003?

[Hissyspit]

92. I didn't say it was all propaganda. Nice misrepresentation.

How is this in any way like 2003? Jeez…

Sorry, not playing your game.

[sub.theory]

94. It's ok, Hissyspit

I can't think of a single reason either

[Live and Learn]

104. If I thought we we were really innocent in all of this I might be dumbfounded too.

But we are not and I am not. That doesn't excuse the barbarity they are perpetuating, it just means that I accept that as long as we are all going to play the kill and torture game, it will live on. And if we play, we really can't complain.

[spanone]

96. lies..

all lies by powers that be....

https://m.

[JEB]

97. When did so many Americans, even DUers, become addicted to fear?

[joshcryer]

99. Go watch the video of them executing thousands of young Iraqi men.

If Iraq or the Kurds or Syria or Iran doesn't stop them then they will unquestionably become some force that is a threat to US national interests.

[Zorra]

100. Exactly what national interests would be threatened? nt

[joshcryer]

102. Regional security.

Which would result in a power vacuum that would allow them to use force on our grounds.

[Live and Learn]

107. A force, we helped create. Who could have seen that coming?

What makes you think anything we would or could do now will make it any better. It was always an immoral and losing battle.

[joshcryer]

108. False.

FSA isn't ISIS. We never armed the FSA. Just boogieman propaganda. ISIS is the result of Syrian totalitarianism.

[Hissyspit]

117. Just like

PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING IN THAT PART OF THE WORLD

[Live and Learn]

103. I'm all feared out!

One can only deal with so much fear in one's lifetime before it is hard to scare them anymore.

[sub.theory]

115. Syria Needs Aid Workers

Since you're all feared out, Syria is in desperate need of aid workers. Journalists too. Good to know you are certain there's nothing an American has to fear from ISIS.

[nationalize the fed]

106. Nayirah al-Sabah

The Nayirah testimony was a fake testimony given before the non-governmental Congressional Human Rights Caucus on October 10, 1990 by a woman who provided only her first name, Nayirah. The testimony was widely publicized, and was cited numerous times by United States senators and the American president in their rationale to back Kuwait in the Gulf War.

In 1992, it was revealed that Nayirah's last name was al-Ṣabaḥ and that she was the daughter of Saud Al-Sabah, the Kuwaiti ambassador to the United States. Furthermore, it was revealed that her testimony was organized as part of the Citizens for a Free Kuwait public relations campaign which was run by Hill & Knowlton for the Kuwaiti government. Following this, al-Sabah's testimony has come to be regarded as a classic example of modern atrocity propaganda

Hill & Knowlton

In 1990, after being approached by a Kuwaiti expatriate in New York, Hill & Knowlton took on "Citizens for a Free Kuwait." The objective of the national campaign was to raise awareness in the United States about the dangers posed by Iraqi dictator, Saddam Hussein to Kuwait.

Hill & Knowlton conducted a $1 million study to determine the best way to win support for strong action. H & K had the Wirthington Group conduct focus groups to determine the best strategy that would influence public opinion.[40] The study found that an emphasis on atrocities, particularly the incubator story, was the most effective.

Hill & Knowlton is estimated to have been given as much as $12 million by the Kuwaitis for their public relations campaign

[Spider Jerusalem]

109. Not in the least, and I'm about 4000 miles closer to them than you are.

The only threat they pose to the West is economic (significant disruption of oil supplies would probably trigger another financial meltdown, 2008-style). Considering the impact of such a thing happening, it's probably in the interests of the US, UK and other NATO countries to prevent it, no?

[Hissyspit]

119. Prevent it how?

Another serving of Blowback Mission Creep Juice?

[fadedrose]

113. Skepticism and Lola Jane

Your beautiful baby's expression totally exemplifies your skepticism in the threat of ISIS, among other government issues....

Lola Jane seems so like you, a chip off the old block, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, and all that stuff......

She's a skeptic alright, just like her old man . . . I can see she's not easily fooled either....

I doubt she posed for this picture, and she just doesn't believe anything you tell her.

I love that picture.

[panader0]

114. No, I am afraid of SALT

Your picture gave me the shivers



The nutrient that kills 1.65 million people every year
© Women's Health 08/21/2014 | By Annie Daly of Women's Health




In alarming news, a new study published in The New England Journal of Medicine found that there are an estimated 1.65 million deaths worldwide linked to high sodium consumption each year.

For the study, researchers first analyzed data from 205 surveys of sodium intake from 187 different countries all across the globe--and the results were shocking. Turns out, people around the world consumed an average of 3.95 grams per day in 2010, when the surveys went out--and that's nearly double the World Health Organization (WHO) recommendation of two grams per day! Some regions were on the higher and lower end of the spectrum--Central Asia, for instance, averaged 5.51 grams per day; sub-saharan African was lower, at 2.18 grams per day; the U.S. came in at 3.6 grams per day--but all regions came out above the WHO recommended amount.