Homeopaths vs. Ebola virus hemorrhagic fever

[SidDithers]

Homeopathy is quackery. There, I’ve fulfilled my normal requirement to start out all posts that I write having to do with homeopathy with a simple, declarative, and, most of all, true statement about what homeopathy is. I also like to mention briefly homeopathy’s two major “laws.” The first is the Law of Similars, a totally pseudoscientific “law” without basis in science that proclaims that the way to treat a symptom is to use a substance that causes that symptom in healthy people. The second “law,” of course, is the Law of Infinitesimals, which further states that the more you dilute a remedy the more potent it becomes. This leads homeopaths to dilute remedies to 30C (C = one hundred-fold dilution) and beyond. Given that a 30C dilution equals a 10^60-fold dilution and Avogadro’s number is only approximately 6 x 10^23, such homeopathic remedies are unlikely to contain a single molecule of the original substance, other than perhaps contamination carried over from one dilution to the next. Either way, homeopathy is basically water or ethanol or whatever diluent is used to dilute the substance, and any effects from homeopathy are placebo or nonspecific effects. Indeed, I like to think of homeopathy as the Rorschach test of quackery in that quacks see in it whatever their nature leads them to see.

I normally don’t blog about Facebook memes (although I have been guilty on occasion of spreading them around), but the other day I saw this a screenshot of this Tweet:



Upon seeing this, I thought: Good point! Why aren’t there homeopaths trying to treat Ebola victims in Africa? After all, there are, unfortunately, homeopaths out there treating AIDS victims in Africa, a truly terrifying incursion of quackery into Third World countries.

First off, does anyone remember Homeopaths Without Borders? It’s not a joke. (Well, it is a joke, actually, but Homeopaths Without Borders does nonetheless exist.) There really are homeopaths out there who, thinking themselves capable of doing anything more than getting in the way of real doctors and rescue workers, for example in Haiti after the earthquake of 2010. A year and a half later, the results were not exactly what I would call a smashing success, although homeopaths bent logic, language, and medicine to portray it as such. Homeopaths have also claimed to be able to treat malaria, although malaria isn’t nearly as “sexy” a disease (i.e., frequently in the media) as HIV/AIDS or Ebola.

The meme made me curious though? Is Rayne correct? Is it even completely fair? After all, even the Peace Corps is temporarily removing volunteers from West Africa in the face of the spreading Ebola outbreak. On the other hand, While it’s true that Homeopaths Without Borders appears not to be rushing to the areas in Africa where there are currently Ebola outbreaks and hundreds of fatalities, what about other homeopaths? It’s not as though homeopaths don’t claim to be able to treat or even cure Ebola, as you’ll see.

Much more at link: http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2014/08/01/homeopaths-and-ebola-virus-hemorrhagic-fever/


Sid

[KurtNYC]

1. strawman = logical fallacy

[DetlefK]

2. What's the strawman? THEY claim they can cure Ebola.

[etherealtruth]

7. You are kidding, right.....?

[freshwest]

43. As soon as someone goes the 'strawman' route, I tune them out for using it like a slur.

Because they never explain why the other person has made a failing argument. If one responds, they add more buzzwords as if they know more than anyone else. And never explain the problem.

JMHO.

[etherealtruth]

45. As usual ;-)

... you are right.

I am having trouble wrapping my mind around those that would seek to defend HOMEOPATHY as either a viable alternative or a harmless alternative .... especially in this case.

[zappaman]

11. What strawman?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. You're asking a homeopath for an explanation of how something works rather than

simply accepting the premise?

*wags finger*

[Warren DeMontague]

65. Defending homeopathy using accusations of logic fail?

That's funny.

[snooper2]

90. you aren't responding to anybody--

you okay?

[DocwillCuNow]

3. K+R..... infectious disease is nothing to trifle with, as anyone who knows someone who is

trying to overcome fungal meningitis. It's an uphill battle all the way and it is not always a successful one. The bad batch of steroids that came out a couple years ago was given to thousands of patients and some are still waiting for the signs to appear.

[etherealtruth]

4. These idiots (homepathic "practioners") and their defenders ....

... are dangerous to individuals and the public health.

Defending this garbage (homeopathy) .... helps the dangerous proliferation of non-sense and the spread of disease and human suffering.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

5. But but but but...

Big Pharma... And profit motives... And water has memory... And Raiki crystals!

[PasadenaTrudy]

27. And

Crystal blue persuasion!

[Dr Hobbitstein]

29. Crimson and clover...

Over and over...

[Wolf Frankula]

84. And Medicines Have Chemicals In Them!!!

Everything has chemicals in it, except for a hard vacuum which has nothing in it.

And if water has memory, then all homeopath nostrums using water are contaminated with bird shit. Because all water, fresh or salt, has had bird shit in it.

Wolf

[Archae]

6. Remember "Head On?"

"Apply directly to the forehead!"
Lather, rinse, repeat, x infinity...

That stuff was homeopathic.

[dsc]

87. really

I had just assumed it was a topical version of tylenol or advil or what have you. I didn't realize it was pretty much water.

[SidDithers]

89. The best commercials, though...

Sid

[Rex]

8. Viral Hemorrhagic fever is not so uncommon.

Nor are they all fatal. Nor do they all spread easily. Homeopathic medicine is just another name for placebo. I seriously doubt a placebo is going to cure any strain of VHF.

[Warpy]

52. Not if someone has access to a hospital

Even the most hardened woohead will get people to a hospital when they start coughing up copious amounts of foamy blood. Of course by then, it's doubtful whether breaking all speed records setting up ECMO to prevent cerebral anoxia will help.

Even Ebola has one strain that is usually blown off as a bad stomach flu. Unfortunately, it doesn't confer any immunity against its more lethal cousins.

[Rex]

85. True, I know there is speculation that they brought back the infected

to test out something. I've seen some say they believe this mutated and went airborne. The CDC will stay on top of things.

[Brickbat]

9. "Essential Oils For The Win!"

http://www.essentialoilsforthewin.com/ebola/

As some of you know, our family has been treating viruses and other illnesses in our home for the past 9 months or so with essential oils. Just reading this will infuriate many people! Why? Because with something like Ebola, they think something as passive-sounding as essential oils couldn’t possibly provide any protection. It’s likely that those people have never used essential oils for so much as a headache, and therefore have no experience or belief in place. I, too, started this journey as a skeptic, so I get it. But, after seeing oils work in our family for the past 9 months and finding nearly instant relief from a host of health concerns, I am no longer a skeptic. I am a believer that God-given plants from the earth have incredible properties that our bodies recognize as familiar and they go to work quickly to heal us. I will list a very small number of the issues we’ve successfully used oils for instead of traditional medicine so far:

Mastitis
Strep Throat
Kidney Stones
Stomach Flu
Pink Eye
Staph Infection

The reason doctors can’t do anything for viruses is because viruses live inside of your cell’s walls, and medicine particles can’t penetrate those walls. Essential oils, however, have super tiny particles and a makeup that allows them to pass through with no problem! They go in, kill the virus while also stopping the viral cells from duplicating, and all the while boost the immune system so the body can continue to fight for itself. We’ve found that we can kill viral infections in 12-48 hours, depending on how quickly we start using oils.

You guys, SUPER TINY.

ETA: Sorry, this isn't homeopathic stuff. But it's just as woo, and I saw it yesterday on FB and so it was on my mind. Carry on.

[pintobean]

10. Thanks for posting.

The super tiny penetration made me laugh.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

17. "The super tiny penetration made me laugh."

Yeah. I think I dated that guy too.

[DocwillCuNow]

28. little baby jackhammers all working in unison, go team, on the other hand, there are some drug trial

going on with Marburg prevention/treatment.

[pintobean]

39. I may have seen your work.

[Treant]

40. During the super tiny penetration

You're going to feel a very, very tiny prick.

[Avalux]

21. Whoa that's quite a claim! "kill viral infections in 12-48 hours".

I would like to see the clinical evidence in support of that claim. That's just the thing....there is none. People can make all sorts of claims and present anecdotal stories about homeopathic remedies, but until clinical trials are conducted proving such fantastical cures, it's just a bunch of hooey.

Claims of curing infectious diseases make me particularly angry because it could be a matter of life an death.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

30. I have a friend who sells essential oils...

It's some pyramid scheme like HerbaLife and MonaVie. She got suckered into the whole thing...

I've told her a MILLION times that essential oils are woo. Yes, tea tree oil and eucalyptus oils are astringents, but they are far from anti-bacterial and anti-microbial. I said if you want things that smell good, then that's what they're for. I used to make my own colognes out of essential oils, and use them through diffusers for smell good stuff around the house. That's pretty much all they're good for.

[Treant]

38. To a point

I've used dilute peppermint oil to kill aphids, and Tabasco sauce to repel rabbits.

Soap would work just as well to kill the aphids, but the peppermint does discourage their return while it lasts (not long, but I'll take it).

I use witch hazel as a mild astringent and because I like the scent.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

42. You are correct...

There are other uses, but it's not the cure-all that woo peddlers make it out to be.

[Drahthaardogs]

44. Essential oils can be toxic in sufficient dose and concentration

Essential oils like most secondary plant metabolites can be dangerous

[Dr Hobbitstein]

55. Of course they can...

Quite a few of them are very dangerous to ingest... However, most people who push the aromatherapy scam are only smelling them. Because somehow smelling a blend of plant essences will cure bubonic plague.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Dr Bronner's soap will kill the shit out of ants in your kitchen

but beyond that, yeah, what you said.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

53. And orange oil works wonders for cleaning bongs...

But it won't cure diphtheria.

I used to make and sell a product called "Po' Ted's Organic Pipe Cleaner". It was nothing more than orange oil and water in an 8oz bottle. Cost me about $1/bottle to make. I sold it for $10.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. With those sorts of margins

I cant imagine ted stayed po fo long.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

75. Heh...

I think I made a total of 20 bottles. I never bothered to start a real business with it. Sold a few bottles at flea markets and to fellow "Po'Teds".

[3catwoman3]

12. I am waiting for someone to suggest...

...breast milk.

[valerief]

13. Why aren't the faithful praying it away? nt

[djean111]

14. I was thinking how very fucking odd to link scorn for homeopathy to Ebola - then I read this -

http://www.naturalnews.com/046259_Ebola_outbreak_drug_treatments_Monsanto.html

Ebola outbreak may already be uncontrollable; Monsanto invests in Ebola treatment drug company as pandemic spreads

......
One fascinating development worth investigating further is that TEKMIRA Pharmaceuticals, a company working on an anti-Ebola drug, just received a $1.5 million cash infusion from none other than Monsanto. Click here to read the press release, which states "Tekmira Pharmaceuticals Corporation is a biopharmaceutical company focused on advancing novel RNAi therapeutics and providing its leading lipid nanoparticle (LNP) delivery technology to pharmaceutical partners."

The money from Monsanto is reportedly related to the company's developed of RNAi technology used in agriculture. The deal is valued at up to $86.2 million, according to the WSJ. (11)

Another press release about Tekmira reveals a $140 million contract with the U.S. military for Ebola treatment drugs:

TKM-Ebola, an anti-Ebola virus RNAi therapeutic, is being developed under a $140 million contract with the U.S. Department of Defense's Medical Countermeasure Systems BioDefense Therapeutics (MCS-BDTX) Joint Product Management Office.

Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/046259_Ebola_outbreak_drug_treatments_Monsanto.html#ixzz39Lw3UU74

I also read somewhere that the US is sending Ebola detection kits to all 50 states.

[SidDithers]

18. Are you posting this as an example of how fucking ridiculous naturalnews is?...nt

Sid

[djean111]

24. Are you saying that what they reported is not true?

Or, if it true, it should be ignored or ridiculed because Natural News reported it?

[SidDithers]

26. Holy fuck. You really are using naturalnews as if it were a legitimate source...

Sid

[djean111]

32. Okay, here is something from the tekmira webaite.

http://www.tekmira.com/pipeline/tkm-ebola.php

About Investigational TKM-Ebola Therapeutic
For many years, the Zaire species of Ebola virus (ZEBOV), a highly contagious and lethal human infectious disease, has been associated with periodic outbreaks of hemorrhagic fever in human populations with mortality rates reaching 90%.



In May 2010, a series of studies demonstrating the ability of an RNAi therapeutic utilizing Tekmira’s LNP technology to protect non-human primates from the Ebola virus were published in The Lancet. Tekmira conducted the studies in collaboration with infectious disease researchers from Boston University and the United States Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases (USAMRIID). These studies were funded in part by the U.S. Department of Defense’s (DoD) Joint Project Manager Transformational Medical Technologies (JPM-TMT) Office. The results of these preclinical studies demonstrated that when siRNA – delivered by Tekmira's LNP technology – targeted the Ebola virus to treat previously infected non-human primates, the result was 100 percent protection from an otherwise lethal dose of Zaire Ebola virus

I do not "use" Natural News for anything much. But again, is what they have reported not true? Do you have an answer for that, other than scorn for the website?

[CAG]

48. How DARE a drug company try to find a drug to treat a disease!!! The SHAME, the SHAME!!!

I'm sure some St Johns Wort will fix it all up.

[djean111]

50. That is not what I was saying, and you know it. What bothers me is that

it looks to me like Monsanto tentacles will be all over it. YMMV, of course.
I do not believe in homeopathy, never looked into it, and linking it to Ebola seems very odd indeed.
Straw man, looks like to me.

[etherealtruth]

51. This may help

Although it is wikipedia (not to be confused with a scholarly source, but this article provides a fairly good overview and provides citations and links to more scholarly work)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeopathy

Homeopathy lacks biological plausibility,[11] and the axioms of homeopathy have been refuted for some time.[12] The postulated mechanisms of action of homeopathic remedies are both scientifically implausible[6][13] and not physically possible.[14] Although some clinical trials produce positive results,[15][16] systematic reviews reveal that this is because of chance, flawed research methods, and reporting bias. Continued homeopathic practice, despite the evidence that it does not work, has been criticized as unethical because it increases the suffering of patients by discouraging the use of real medicine,[17] with the World Health Organisation warning against using homeopathy to try to treat severe diseases such as HIV and malaria.[18] The continued practice, despite a lack of evidence of efficacy,[5][6][19] has led to homeopathy being characterized within the scientific and medical communities as nonsense,[20] quackery,[4][21][22] or a sham.[23]

As for claiming the linking of homeopathy to ebola treatment ... it is not a strawman as the point of this was to shed light on "homeopathic practitioners" claiming to have treatments for ebola (they have linked themselves). There has been no misrepresentation of their position.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/straw-man.html

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:

Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

31. If NaturalNews reported it

Then it's not true.

[zappaman]

36. Confused about natural news?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025317589

[Ruby the Liberal]

16. I wouldn't send a Chiropractor to an ebola clinic

any more than I would send a Dentist.

Time and place.

Pick your arguments. This one makes zero sense.

[etherealtruth]

19. If you read at the links there are "homeopathic practioners"

... are proposing homeopathic remedies ... It is ignorant and dangerous that the homeopathic "practitioners" are making these claims ... I haven't seen any dentists offering remedies or cures.

Here’s what two homeopaths have proposed a a homeopathic remedy for Ebola:

Dr. Gail Derin studied the symptoms of Ebola Zaire, the most deadly of the three that can infect human beings. Dr. Vickie Menear, M.D. and homeopath, found that the remedy that most closely fit the symptoms of the 1914 “flu” virus, Crolatus horridus, also fits the Ebola virus nearly 95% symptom-wise! Thanks go to these doctors for coming up with the following remedies:

1. Crolatus horridus (rattlesnake venom) 2. Bothrops (yellow viper) 3. Lachesis (bushmaster snake) 4. Phosphorus 5. Merc. cor.

If you are not in the U.S., you must locate your closed homeopathic practitioner and ask him or her to order these remedies for you from Hahnemann Pharmacy, [phone] (Albany, California, a suburb of Oakland). If your country’s laws allow you to call a homeopathic pharmacy directly, do so. In any case be sure to find a homeopathic practitioner you can work with. Do not try to take care of yourself without the further education and experience that a homeopath can give you.

If you’re not sure where to find your closest homeopath, call the National Center of Homeopathy, [phone], Take this article with you and let a homeopath read it and instruct you on how to use the remedies.

[freshwest]

47. Snake venom is the worst idea for treating Ebola ever! And the

Law of Similars will NOT work on a VIRUS no more than anti-biotics would. I'm no expert, but even I know THAT. We seem to have lost basic scientific knowledge in this country.

I don't like dissing people's choices, if the problem is a minor one that can be handled by a home remedy.

Won't work on Ebola.

Even worse, those who are desperate as the medical doctors fail to give a solution and they are suffering.

When it's not Ebola.

People keep trying to get well, or keep their health, that's a given.

Ebola, Marberg, etc. are too dangerous to play around with.

[Iggo]

22. Homeopathy is 100% bullshit.

[CAG]

49. Actual Bull poo would probably cure more things than an average homeopath "cure"

[William769]

56. I see you are studying at the Library again.

[greatauntoftriplets]

57. "Studying"???

[William769]

59. Good point.

[msanthrope]

76. "Mental masturbation" is the term I use. nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

78. I suppose she gets pleasure out of it.

[msanthrope]

79. One would hope that one would not persist for so long in something that was not giving pleasure. nt

[greatauntoftriplets]

80. Or has a thing for rejection.

[NRaleighLiberal]

60. even if there is no real remedy in them?

[William769]

61. ...

[Dr Hobbitstein]

62. Perhaps you should read downthread...

"Remember - alternative medicine has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. You know what alternative medicine that's been proven to work is called? Medicine."

But hey, if you want to waste your money on sugar pills, far be it from me to stop you. Just don't try and promote that bullshit as fact.

[BlueEye]

23. Due to the lack of any approved protocols, Ebola is basically treated with the "shotgun method"

Of giving the patient all sorts of things and seeing if anything works. Dr. Kent Brantly has already received a blood transfusion from a survivor. This "experimental serum" everyone's talking about is apparently some sort of interferon (frequently used to treat persons with Multiple Sclerosis). No doubt Dr. Brantly is being pumped full of steroids (anti-inflammatory/anti-pyhrritic), pain killers, probably some blood thickeners/coagulating agents...

So if someone says "Hey, oregano oil might help fight Ebola", I'm going to say, what the hell, let's have some of that too. Try to survive, or die trying.

[RoccoR5955]

25. Any good Homeopathic practitioner knows

that one must use many sources to cure a person, whatever ails them.
To say that all homeopaths are bad is an injustice to those who also use the good parts of modern medicine to help in a cure.
Yes, herbs and such are not going to heal someone from Ebola, but they can aid in curing, in conjunction with other things, including acupuncture, moxification, ayurvedic medicine, herbal curatives, modern medical practices, and other things.
A good healer does not isolate one's practice to one form of medicine. The Chinese have been using herbal medicine for thousands of years, and many of the commercial medications that we use today come from these sources. Indian medicine has been using ayurvedic medicine for at least 2000 years. These two forms of "alternative" medicine have often cured folks, and have been dismissed by modern medicine.

For example, aspirin evolved from willow tree bark. There could be other compounds present in willow tree bark that aid in its healing powers. I know that this may be a poor example, but right now, I cannot think of a good one.

What bothers me is that "modern" medicine often fails to see the synergy of different things found in herbal and other remedies. They extract one compound from a form of herbal medicine, concentrate it, and call it a modern cure.

The homeopaths that claim that they can cure anything with just their single source are as bad as the doctors who fail to see the benefits of some more holistic forms of medicine that work on the entire person, and not just the single disease.

Some of today's modern doctors do see the benefits of these other forms of "alternative" medicine, and are using them, with very good results.

I guess my real point is that one should look at ALL cures, when tackling a difficult disease, such as Ebola, and study the synergy of using many diverse schools of curing, rather than limit themselves to one.

[Dr Hobbitstein]

33. Any homeopathic practitioner

Is an idiot or a snake oil salesman. Homeopathy is pure woo. 100% disproved.

[NRaleighLiberal]

34. Homeopathy has to be separated out because there is essentially no active

ingredient in the treatment - whatever is presumed to be active is diluted away to virtual non-existence. The whole thing about water molecules having memories of substances, etc - pure bullshit. Might as well believe in alchemy.

ANY benefit from a homeopathic treatment is simply a placebo effect.

[COLGATE4]

35. Nobody is arguing that many plants contain agents

which have active pharmaceutical properties and that, in years past the only remedies available were herbal remedies taken from those plants. Bark of a tree produces a basic compound of aspirin, for example and a tea made from that bark would be helpful in treating a headache.

The problem with homeopathy is it's second principal, that of dilution. To be considered a true homeopathic medicine the active content must be so infinitessimaly small as to be nonexistent for all intents and purposes. The result is that homeopathic remedies - if they are compounded correctly in agreement with homeopathic standards - are essentially nothing but water.

Attacking homeopathy as quackery is not attacking either holistic medicine or alternative medicine. Homeopathy is unfortunately neither one.

[arcane1]

37. It works in conjunction with "modern medical practices"?

In other words, not at all.

[GoneOffShore]

41. 'Good homeopathic practitioner'?

You really said that?

Nominated for a DUZY!

Remember - alternative medicine has either been not proven to work or proven not to work. You know what alternative medicine that's been proven to work is called? Medicine.

[RoccoR5955]

66. So, I guess that those of you who do not think that alternative medicine works

are all for the big drug corporations.
You DO know that they own members of congress, don't you.
AFAIC - many of you are being brainwashed with the idea that ONLY "modern" medicine can cure. Brainwashed by the mainstream media, and the big drug companies.

[hobbit709]

73. There's a big big difference between "natural" and homeopathic.

One is not the other.

[NuclearDem]

77. Do they have degrees?

[Warren Stupidity]

67. Currently nothing works for Ebola.

So, would you really deny an Ebola patient access to any treatment, no matter how bullshitty it is? I wouldn't. Fuck it, the odds are 9-1 you are dead anyway, get a witch doctor.

[etherealtruth]

68. The mortality rate with the current outbreak

... is ~60% .... better outcomes are associated with medical intervention (supportive care).

I will take traditional medicine over the witch doctor

On edit:
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/we-still-dont-know-how-deadly-the-ebola-outbreak-in-west-africa-will-be/

As the worst Ebola outbreak in history spreads through West Africa, media reports have repeatedly cited health officials who say the virus kills up to 90 percent of people it infects. CNN has skipped the “up to” in several stories this week, reporting that typically 90 percent of people infected with Ebola die from the infection — and that the 60 percent mortality rate during the current outbreak reflects success from early treatment.

Some news articles and doctors have attributed the lower death rate to catching cases early and providing infected people with treatment. There is no cure for Ebola, but hydration, electrolytes and bed rest can help manage symptoms, especially diarrhea. “The mortality rate in some outbreaks can be as high as 90 percent, but in this outbreak, it is currently around 60 percent, indicating that some of our early treatment efforts may be having an impact,” Stephan Monroe, deputy director of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s National Center for Emerging Zoonotic and Infectious Diseases, said in a press briefing on Monday.

[Warren Stupidity]

69. There is still no known effective treatment.

I'm not saying don't get standard medical intervention, but when they say "I'm sorry there is nothing we can do", sacrifice a freaking goat.

[etherealtruth]

81. There is no cure

Hydration, electrolyte replacement, transfusions have cut the death rate by approximately 1/3 ... these supportive treatments have effectively cut the death rate.

I do understand what you are saying ... 'try anything" ... what can it hurt .... the issue I have is that some of these treatments (a poster upthread cites "snake venom" as a purported treatment for hemorrhagic fevers (they cite it with disgust/ not agreement) .... if one is talking about healing crystals or slaughtering a goat to the gods ... they really can't hurt ... some of these treatments have a very real potential to cause further harm.

The other issue I have is that folk may fear conventional supportive treatments and attempt "alternative" or homeopathic (acknowledging they are NOT the same thing) .... up to a point where it is too late for any hope.

[Warren Stupidity]

70. Hmmm...

Dr. Kent Brantly, one of the two Americans who contracted Ebola in Liberia, received a dose of an experimental serum before he was flown to the United States for treatment, an aid organization that he works with said Sunday.

The aid organization, a Christian group called Samaritan’s Purse, said it was grateful for news that Brantly’s condition is improving. Earlier, the group had said there was only enough serum for one dose and that it went to Nancy Writebol, the other American infected. Writebol is to be flown to Atlanta this week and treated at Emory University Hospital, where Brantly is also being treated. There is no known cure for Ebola. Dr. Thomas Frieden, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, has said he does not know what treatment the group may be using. There are several in development.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dr-kent-brantly-american-ebola-got-experimental-serum-group-says-n171681


Sounds like there is general agreement that "fuck it, anything goes".

[SidDithers]

71. I can fucking guarantee you that "fuck it, anything goes" at Emory doesn't include homeopathy...

Sid

[etherealtruth]

72. Touché

[Warren Stupidity]

74. It however does include a "serum" that had only one dose, or was it two,

and that the CDC had no clue about. Which puts it pretty much in the sacrifice a goat category.

A fatal disease with no known cure is probably not the best soapbox for your anti-woo campaign, a campaign I generally support. It is the cases where woo is interfering with known cures that we should be concerned about.

[Avalux]

82. The serum was probably prepared from blood of a recovered person.

There are antibodies in that blood, so they spin it down and separate out the RBCs, then infuse what's left. There was one dose which went to another infected doc, Dr. Brantly was transfused with a pint of blood from recovered patient he had treated, for those antibodies.

[OriginalGeek]

83. Thread reported

for homeophobia.










(umm, not really)


(Well, not by me. Some quack might have though...)

[progressoid]

86. This thread needs a dose of Mitchell and Webb

[Surya Gayatri]

88. Interview w/ Dr. Luc Montagnier, Nobel Laureate

in Biology (his team isolated the HIV virus) + documentary recently shown on French TV: "On a trouvé la mémoire de l'eau".

Very intriguing experiments going on as we speak on the "memory of water". Never say never...an open mind is the sine qua non of science.

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8)