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Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:26 AM

Can we review what is acceptable speech on DU?

I feel the need for a list. My recollection of things that we are told we cannot discuss: privilege, racism by anyone except Republicans, rape, violence against women, any issue concerning women's rights other than abortion. We aren't allowed to make any reference to white people, even when speaking about a Republican like Bill Bennett, because that makes some other white people upset. Talking about racism and sexism "divides" Democrats so it is explicitly forbidden. We can't mention MRAs because some have decided that somehow applies to all men, though I'm thinking a lot of men don't see it that way. Still the righteous indignation about making misogynists look bad ensues.

What is righteous speech that must be protected at all costs: racist, homophobic, and sexist and/or misogynistic slurs, as specified in vivid detail in another thread. Basically the most vulgar insults against anyone who isn't white male or elderly are not only acceptable, expressing them is central to liberalism. Whereas those members who suggest that those segments of society deserve respect equal to the minority white male population are just like conservatives--because we all know how much respect conservatives have for LGBT, people of color, and women. And of course insulting segments of the population based on how they are born doesn't divide Democrats. That division only occurs when feminists and people of color are allowed to speak about issues that they erroneously believe matter.


Oh, and it's not okay to suggest that someone exercise restraint and avoid bigoted slurs because it amounts to censorship, but censoring that opinion about restraint is not only acceptable, it is essential to democracy. In fact, the Republic cannot stand if people are confronted with opinions with which they disagree.

I'm sure I'm forgetting others. Please fill me in so I can conduct myself accordingly in the future. I'm told that freedom of speech requires that certain disagreements never be uttered. I hate to say the wrong thing and ruin our constitution and democracy itself.

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Reply Can we review what is acceptable speech on DU? (Original post)
BainsBane Jun 2014 OP
donco Jun 2014 #1
BainsBane Jun 2014 #2
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #3
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #48
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #60
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #61
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #62
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #64
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #65
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #70
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #76
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #82
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #83
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #84
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #85
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #86
Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #87
Bonobo Jun 2014 #4
BainsBane Jun 2014 #5
Bonobo Jun 2014 #6
BainsBane Jun 2014 #7
Bonobo Jun 2014 #9
BainsBane Jun 2014 #11
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #53
BainsBane Jun 2014 #55
Baitball Blogger Jun 2014 #58
BainsBane Jun 2014 #88
alp227 Jun 2014 #8
Glitterati Jun 2014 #10
BainsBane Jun 2014 #13
Glitterati Jun 2014 #14
BainsBane Jun 2014 #16
kcr Jun 2014 #18
BainsBane Jun 2014 #26
AtheistCrusader Jun 2014 #12
bravenak Jun 2014 #15
BainsBane Jun 2014 #17
bravenak Jun 2014 #20
BainsBane Jun 2014 #22
Glitterati Jun 2014 #19
bravenak Jun 2014 #23
JustAnotherGen Jun 2014 #77
Eleanors38 Jun 2014 #32
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #49
bravenak Jun 2014 #52
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #54
bravenak Jun 2014 #56
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #57
Go Vols Jun 2014 #21
BainsBane Jun 2014 #24
Go Vols Jun 2014 #25
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #27
BainsBane Jun 2014 #28
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #29
BainsBane Jun 2014 #30
Spitfire of ATJ Jun 2014 #36
Violet_Crumble Jun 2014 #31
ucrdem Jun 2014 #33
BainsBane Jun 2014 #35
ucrdem Jun 2014 #37
freshwest Jun 2014 #45
Rafale Jun 2014 #34
Kablooie Jun 2014 #38
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2014 #50
Kablooie Jun 2014 #67
Tuesday Afternoon Jun 22 #91
davidpdx Jun 2014 #39
Dragonfli Jun 2014 #40
AngryAmish Jun 2014 #41
Quantess Jun 2014 #42
Exposethefrauds Jun 2014 #43
HereSince1628 Jun 2014 #44
BainsBane Jun 2014 #46
kcr Jun 2014 #47
TransitJohn Jun 2014 #51
Boom Sound 416 Jun 2014 #59
Squinch Jun 2014 #63
NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #66
BainsBane Jun 2014 #68
NutmegYankee Jun 2014 #72
BainsBane Jun 2014 #73
The Second Stone Jun 2014 #69
BainsBane Jun 2014 #75
The Second Stone Jun 2014 #81
Kingofalldems Jun 2014 #71
BainsBane Jun 2014 #74
Kingofalldems Jun 2014 #80
BainsBane Jun 2014 #89
Kingofalldems Jun 2014 #90
yodermon Jun 2014 #78
BainsBane Jun 2014 #79

Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:34 AM

1. Some people get pissed off

when they wake up in the morn. lifes better when you Ignore them.

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Response to donco (Reply #1)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:35 AM

2. I did put GD in the trash for a while

So there is always that option.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:43 AM

3. I don't believe in casting generalizations or aspersions against any race, region, gender, religion,

or based on someone's sexual orientation.

That doesn't mean I don't recognize gender gaps, and the effects of long time white institutional racism.

I don't believe in trashing white males, I even happen to be one of them but I do know which race and gender dominates our society.

I know there is a glass ceiling and I know there are still overt and subtle forms of racism.

I believe we as a community are more than capable of communicating our thoughts, anger, sadness and frustrations while being sensitive to the overall group at large.

All we need to do is just walk in the other persons' shoes and think about how we phrase our messages, none of that means we don't have freedom of speech.

Thanks for the thread, BainsBane.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #3)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:13 AM

48. How do you feel about trashing old white males who are of the

autocratic, conservative bent? In Florida we have many of those in both parties and they are not only responsible for instilling institutional racism, but also promoting an unfair, dichotomous society that effects just about every young family that moves into Florida. Because of their unchallenged authority, it inspires a Thirdway form of political networking that shuts out outsiders.

None of it would be possible without the participation of attorneys who try to brush off their frauds and conspiracies. What they will tell us is, "Oh, we listened to the 'old guy.' Yes, I have a letter that says that very thing--from a city lawyer! Hard to believe, but our local government takes the word of "the old guys" instead of doing their own due diligence. If you lived in Florida, you would understand the seriousness of the situation. The social expectation is that we will forgive the offenses because the people who commit these strategic errors are old. But if you dig into their public information, you realize that you're dealing with someone who has resources. Sometimes it can be someone who not only hob knobs with Tallahassee politicians, but also takes down a salary of $200,000 from some government paid job.

Why shouldn't we use the term "old" when these people are specifically selected because the assumption is that their age gives them a teflon effect since we're all raised to respect our elders?

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #48)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:39 PM

60. Florida has approximately 3,373,500 senior citizens, I believe it would be safe to assume

that there are approximately one and a half million "old males" and one million "old white males" in Florida.

Ask yourself these three redundant questions.

Are all "old" people in Florida males?

Are "old" males in Florida white?

Are all "old white males" in Florida of the autocratic conservative bent?

Obviously the answer to all three is no, so why use an unnecessary, ageist term in describing your opposition when said word has the capacity to alienate across the board, people falling into the other three categories.

People that might otherwise agree with your point of view.

As Florida has the largest % of senior citizens of any state in the nation, it simply makes no logical sense to use a broad brush or ax instead of a scalpel in criticizing your opposition.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #60)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:44 PM

61. I don't think you're addressing my point.

I am trying to meet you halfway. I am saying that the problem is mostly autocratic, conservative older white males. And I believe that we have a right to address it in those terms. For a member of a minority group, there is no one that falls in that category that wishes us well.

On edit: Not to mention, that you haven't addressed the age issue when it's used as a ploy to steal property rights from innocent homeowners. The decisions these people are making continue to erode our rights as homeowners and citizens of Florida. Yet, we're expected to forgive them because of their age. It's something that triggers the radar when you realize that the city government continues to rely on the information from the same people even years after it becomes apparent that their information amounts to a case of fraud.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #61)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:50 PM

62. I see nothing wrong with using autocratic or conservative but "old" is unnecessary and it's too

broad brush.

Some people have no problem with aging, they're content with life's journey but many are constantly yearning for their youth, when they were stronger, faster, more agile, more handsome or beautiful, sharper of wit with better memories, had less pain in their lives, watched fewer of their friends and family die and were seemingly farther away from death.

When you start trashing an entire age bracket with no thought to the consequences or effects, you might as well invade Iraq for attacking us on 9/11.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #62)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:00 PM

64. You are still not recognizing the problem.

You haven't addressed the age issue when it's used as a ploy to steal property rights from innocent homeowners. This is a very recognizable pattern in Florida. These are very savvy business individuals who congregate in private organizations that have direct connections to local and state government. If you get close enough to them, you'll eventually hear them talk about themselves. They describe themselves as land takers or entrepreneurs. They are old, they are white and they are male. And they use their age to great effect. Each time they make a decision that erodes our rights as homeowners, we're expected to forgive them because of their age.

It's something that triggers the radar when you realize that the city government continues to rely on the information from the same older citizen even years after it becomes apparent that their information they provided amounted to a case of fraud.

I'm telling you, as long as they're going to use their age as a shield, they are opening the door for criticism.

We will agree to disagree on this issue.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #64)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:11 PM

65. Then you attack those individuals or the issue of stealing property rights

when you attack age, you're falling into their trap.

Peace to you, Baitball Blogger.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #65)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:40 PM

70. No. what I'm doing is removing a sacred cow.

Peace to you.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #70)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:06 PM

76. What is an old person, but yesterday's young person, so be careful what you wish for,

tomorrow is coming.

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #76)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:19 PM

82. I am an old person.

That's why it's my responsibility to stand up and point out the flaw in bestowing carte blanche to any group that controls power.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #82)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:22 PM

83. "Old people" includes every old person outside the group.

How does this law work allowing them to steal property?

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #83)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:29 PM

84. That's not a difficult question to answer when you're a minority who lives in a community

that is 90% Anglo-American, with a demographic that is primarily Republican. A Liberal would not have trouble seeing the picture that portrays.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #84)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:32 PM

85. What do they do that steals your property? n/t

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Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #85)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:40 PM

86. I will be providing the details as soon as I finish the chronicle.

If you like, I'll PM you when I post it to DU.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #86)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:41 PM

87. Thanks, I would appreciate it. n/t

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:48 AM

4. Can I borrow some of that straw?

The Midwest is running short. That should be enough to tide them over.

Too bad your OP was not hidden as you probably would have preferred.

The fact that it wasn't rather undermined your point. Ouch.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #4)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:52 AM

5. Actually I'll return it to you

some of it came from your posts. I got a particular kick out of your inability to see the irony in a statement, made in the context of a discussing about censoring speech, that people who talk about privilege are irony impaired. That was a good one.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #5)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:54 AM

6. Umm, that wouldn't be straw.

I guess you probably need to review what strawman actually means.

Thanks for the chuckle though.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #6)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:55 AM

7. As do you

Since my post reflects what has been explicitly argued on this board, much of it today alone.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #7)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:03 AM

9. "We aren't allowed to make any reference to white people"

Yes, that is a heap of straw, as your failed attempt at having an OP hidden proved.

Seriously amusing though.

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Response to Bonobo (Reply #9)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:12 AM

11. I'm afraid not

You've missed a great deal during your vacation. Ask Bravenak what happens when she talks about white people.
Yes, I really, really wanted to get to five hides and be put on forced leave. If I wanted to get a post hidden, I could do much better than that.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #11)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:25 AM

53. I believe that on a discussion board with wide viewership we need to qualify those tags.

I agree that the problem minorities face is far larger than just bigotry and racism emitted from the Republican party. We know we are dealing with something that crosses party lines and it's not helpful that our voices get shut down on a progressive site because posters continually take bullets for these people based on a misunderstanding of symantics.

So to avoid time wasted I suggest going half way and use the tag: "autocratic and conservative white people", since we know that there is still a Southern problem in parts of the Democratic party. That is a reality that we should all be able to face in the 21st Century. I can't imagine any progressive saying otherwise.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #53)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:28 AM

55. unfortunately

It extends beyond conservatives.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #55)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:39 AM

58. Are you suggesting that thirdway Democrats find it convenient to throw in

racial issues in as a bargaining chip? Because, I have noticed that myself. Especially in suburban Florida where there are areas that are ostensibly composed of white residents. I don't like how the voices of minorities have been effectively diluted. Hell, not just diluted, but removed from the conversation entirely.

Anyway, I don't mean to put words into your mouth. Who, outside of conservatives, do you view as a problem? If you think it will create a problem for you to respond because of alerts, just PM me.

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Response to Baitball Blogger (Reply #58)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:08 PM

88. The thing is, many decry the third way Democrats

Many are the people who insist the Democratic Party isn't left enough to suit them, that Obama is a corporate sell out, Hillary a w...e, on and on. They are the same ones who insist discussions about race and gender amount to "dividing Democrats." and a few are the ones gleefully using misogynistic insults toward other DUers since juries have started to allow it. Naturally demeaning people because of race, gender or sexual orientation isn't divisive. Division comes from permitting members of those groups to speak in public about issues of their own choosing.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:59 AM

8. even DU is prone to the "post racial/post sexist/see no evil" mentality.

ostensibly people oppose bigotry but pretend it doesn't exist. they try to have it both ways.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:03 AM

10. No

We can't review what YOU find acceptable or unacceptable.

Only YOU can do that.

And DU gives you many options on how to deal with what you find UNACCEPTABLE:

1. Don't respond and keep kicking the thread you find unacceptable back to the top of the page and getting it noticed by many. Hell, you SERVE THEIR PURPOSE when your outrage overcomes your common damned sense.

2. If you MUST respond, make your feelings known and then click that little boxed X at the end of the thread and remove it from your sight.

3. If you find objectionable language, call out the perpetrator and WALK OUT OF THE ROOM. Don't give them the satisfaction of your outrage. Address it and don't give them the attention they came here for.

4. Deny the racist/msygonist/whateverist the soap box. Don't feed the trolls.

5. Don't start 15 NEW threads about your outrage.

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Response to Glitterati (Reply #10)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:21 AM

13. Apprently when some people speak, it amounts to "beating people into submission"

or so I'm told. Evidently ignoring or trashing a thread isn't sufficient to deal with the verbal violence that is my opinion.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #13)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:29 AM

14. That's covered in Item #5 n/t


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Response to Glitterati (Reply #14)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:32 AM

16. Oh, ok

Considering I only heard about all this because of those 15 threads, I think you ought to offer that advice elsewhere.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #16)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:36 AM

18. Pretty funny advice given the outrage over "censorship"

What a perfect example of your OP.

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Response to kcr (Reply #18)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:03 AM

26. Indeed.

That is the irony in all of this.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:17 AM

12. There's nothing you can say that can offend me.

There are things that you could say that might make me angry enough to respond, and wrestle an issue into the dirt with you, but you can say, whatever you want. I'll engage or not at my choice.

The only thing I will ever alert on is direct personal attacks on DU members, and MIRT fodder trolls. That's it.

Speak your mind.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:30 AM

15. Reverse ageism happens here all the time.

Younger people are considered to have absolutely no judgement and are trashed by the same folks who get all huffy if you mention old people. They hate the idea of young people having any little power or authority while at the same time they have power over the young people and make all the rules.
I'm seeing a case of reverse ageism right now. In GD.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:35 AM

17. I hadn't noticed that

A poster above insisted there was no problem mentioning white people here. I told him that your experience says otherwise.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #17)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:38 AM

20. I have decided to find it all very amusing and feel bad for people who are left behind the times.

My mom said i need to stop scaring folks about the future even though they might not be here.
Besides, i love hypocracy and bullshit artists. They make me feel better about myself.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #20)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:41 AM

22. That's a healthy attitude

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Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:36 AM

19. As is bigotry against regions of the country

Hell, the south bashing on DU has always been ridiculous.

And, good lord, should ANY state who's legislative member voted against aid to NY/NJ after the storm last year gets hit by a tornado, flooding, wildfires, any natural disaster, DU members of those states can just suffer alone, in silence, thankyouverymuch.

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Response to Glitterati (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:41 AM

23. Sometimes i feel like some people want to refight the civil war around here.

And it's not the southerners. During that time this winter when people in the south were crashing on the ice and getting stuck on the roads, i felt bad. Some people here loved it and were amused as heck. It rains out here in the winter sometimes when the roads already have a foot of ice and we all go bananas. Accident on every corner.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #23)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:08 PM

77. Amen brave

That was horrible and mean. . I have lots of Democratic friends in Atlanta that were born and raised in Rochester NY. They know how to drive in snow and ice - but thats assuming salt and plows are in play. It just showed extreme arrogance on the part of some DUers - and I know Arrogance. . . I'm the queen of it!

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Response to Glitterati (Reply #19)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:27 AM

32. Esp. Florida, a state which should be (D) beyond Obama's 2 wins.

Sometimes posters here aren't interested in meaningful progressive change, and are afraid of winning.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #15)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:19 AM

49. I am guilty of that.



Sorry.

I will try to do better with this one.

Thanks for bringing it to my attention.

Peace.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #49)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:22 AM

52. You should not feel bad.

We all do something sometimes. I find myself to be a bit misogynistic at times. I just think we need to get all the young people to vote dem since they are liberal as heck. Most wont vote repub if they vote, so i want them to be on our side.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #52)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:26 AM

54. Yes, I want them to vote Dem, also ... GOTV ...

I also want them to get the best education this once great nation of ours can provide.
We need critical thinking skills going forward. We need for them to know that they matter.
They are our future.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #54)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:31 AM

56. They are sharp too.

They see whats going on and they feel the pinch harder than when i was attaining my majority in 99.
I still think jr college should be free up to an AA degree. We should subsidize the people who are going to pay our SS and take over from us. How can they help us if we don't help them? I worry about that sometimes, how we suck the money from the kid's future and cut education and then expect them to earn enough to pay enough into SS to fund retiree benefits. Makes no sense.

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Response to bravenak (Reply #56)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:37 AM

57. very short sighted thinking on the part of our current representatives, yes.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:38 AM

21. Live and let live

Liberal:

1:favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.

2:favoring or permitting freedom of action, especially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression



We all don't need to think the same.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #21)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:41 AM

24. I love the last sentence

"We all don't need to think the same." Exactly.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #24)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:42 AM

25. +1

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:03 AM

27. "I feel the need for a list."

The other list is a better read.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #27)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:04 AM

28. Which one is that?

and why is it a better read?

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #28)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:06 AM

29. It's shorter.

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Response to Spitfire of ATJ (Reply #29)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:12 AM

30. True

But it only touched on a small part of this whole phenomenon. Nor was their any comment on the hypocrisy of decrying censorship while telling other people to shut up. Plus, it was just one in a series of that poster's Friday threads. You have to consider them as a whole to get a fuller picture.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #30)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:35 AM

36. A lot of them are comments on comments,....like this one.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:25 AM

31. I think you need to set up a panel of international swearing experts to do this review...

Being an expert on swearing, I volunteer to represent the Southern Hemisphere...

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:29 AM

33. Has anyone posted the jury results of the hide that got this ball rollin'?

Some of the protest threads in GD (not this one, which I might have just done a jury on) make over-the-top assumptions that are really out of line without having the results in hand, and so far I haven't seen them.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #33)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:31 AM

35. I haven't seen them myself

but I haven't gone into most of the threads on the subject. At this point no one is going to admit to being the alerter or a juror, for understandable reasons.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #35)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:36 AM

37. Exactly, but everyone is an expert on the craven prudery of the jurors.

Typical. Why let facts get in the way of a good nutrage? Also this newly reborn "I don't need no stinkin' PC police to tell me what I can say" meme got old a long time ago and it was batshit wingnuttery to begin with.

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #37)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 08:04 AM

45. Yeah, that stuff gets old, doesn't it? Reminds me of Rush.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:31 AM

34. Democracy, Open Discourse

She died a quiet death long ago. No one attended her funeral. A most sad affair. Yet her name lives on, adorning many slogans and ornaments under a cold, dark rain.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:49 AM

38. You are *all* pestilential poops and I don't care who hears me!

There, I've said it!

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #38)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:21 AM

50. OT = did you change your avatar?

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #50)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:28 PM

67. Yep. My puppy died (14 yrs old) so my avatar changed.

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Response to Kablooie (Reply #67)

Sun Jun 22, 2014, 01:33 AM

91. I am sorry, Kablooie. I like your poker playing dog for remembrance of your good friend.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:35 AM

39. The "c" word threads are disgusting

That word is thrown around way to much on here.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #39)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:49 AM

40. I know right? Every day I read a post calling someone that

I just can never remember where they are to link to them. I also hate how nobody else can see them, it's frustrating as hell.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 06:05 AM

41. This is the internet

Taking seriously what anyone says is a mistake. Including this.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 06:32 AM

43. From my POV what is acceptable is dependent on who is on line at the time and ones post count.

 

It is just the way it is here in effect the mob rules.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 07:59 AM

44. ...seems there may be a need to recognize good ol' liberal empathy

Clever liberals (that "we" claim ourselves to be) embodying said empathy could frame their statements to serve communication without collateral offensiveness, and without feeling any chaffing rub of self-censorship.

The expanded appeal to the Bill of Rights to protect chauvinistic speech (that according to a jury slipped out of the envelope of acceptability) has some qualities of a smoke screen in response to being caught lacking that traditional liberal value, rather than an honest defense of freedom.

People with empathy who accidentally offend others, just apologize. Really. They typically don't get their hackles up and leap onto a legalistic molehill to crow self-serving defenses.

The freedom of speech argument seems confused, perhaps purposefully so, about a fundamental and necessary freedom of society and a selfish desire for guilt-free shamelessness.

On a liberal/progressive board it leaves the advocates of freedom of offensive speech in the awkward position of endorsing a much lower position for consideration of others feelings relative to self-gratification of fighting for the use superior protected "colorful" "funny" language.

Let's not be charlatans...speech is free but it has consequences. Umbrage is one of them. The jury agreed.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:55 AM

46. Empathy, exactly

very well said.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #44)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:05 AM

47. This should be an OP, too

You've said exactly what I think about this.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:22 AM

51. Even though the actively-posting membership of DU skews older and prudish

I don't think any speech should be off limits, but I'm liberal like that.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 10:41 AM

59. Seems meant for ATA

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 01:53 PM

63. Kick

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:24 PM

66. I fail to see where you got the idea that you cannot discuss these topics

I've seen each of them consume half of GD one some days. It certainly appears the issues are being discussed. Now, if you are instead upset that not everyone is in lockstep agreement with your positions, may I suggest you change your approach. Right now, you often post very confrontational and shaming style OPs which usually result in those you wish to influence instead hardening their opposing position. I suggest you try a bit more dialog.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #66)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:29 PM

68. Probably because every time I post on those subjects

I get accused of being a troll and engaging in flame bait, as do the AA members. Then we get series of follow up threads talking about how we ought not to use words like privilege, mention white people or age.

Agreement isn't the issue. It's efforts to delegitimize the speech by insisting it is trolling and flame bait, in addition to the constant string of alerts on every OP I post. I have no problem with disagreement. I disagree with their point of view, as I do many. What ticks me off is the blanket assertion that posting about race and gender is unacceptable and should not be allowed.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #68)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:47 PM

72. Unfortunately, those topics are tainted from earlier rancorous discussions.

DU has balkanized from some of those discussions into distinct camps, who now seek to score points against each other. It's not that it's flame bait, though some OPs are a bit pointed, as much as the two sides waging their war of words.

I know how it feels. I'm part of the gun owning and hunting community. But that issue is so tainted that I almost never dare discuss going out and taking down a buck last fall. After the local butcher handed over the cuts, grounds, and some more "processed" stuff like sausage, I only now have run out of frozen meat. But the topic cannot be discussed without turning into a flame fest.

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Response to NutmegYankee (Reply #72)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 03:06 PM

73. Yeah, I'm on the gun control side

I no longer engage in those discussions. As you say, it just gets too much.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:32 PM

69. We do need an occasional lecture from a morally superior person

on what we children may and may not say. Or we could continue to use the jury system we have and laugh at the self-appointed morally superior people.

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Response to The Second Stone (Reply #69)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:01 PM

75. Several threads have been posted telling us that it is unacceptble to rely on juries

to alert or for a juror to hide anything as inconsequential as insults to people who don't count--like women, people of color, and LBGT. They have insisted that jury hides among to RW censorship, unless of course the jury hides something they don't like, then it is righteous.
The bottom line: many insist their own speech and that they agree with must be protected at all costs, but speech they disagree with is uncivil or trolling and should be banished. Nothing demonstrates entitlement and hypocrisy better than this whole kerfuffle.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #75)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 05:06 PM

81. True dat

Nothing demonstrates entitlement and hypocrisy quite so much as moral superiority. Just ask George Will, who has made a career out of scolding entire populations (blacks, women, gays) for things only a few people are doing. Keep up the good work.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 02:45 PM

71. Your first paragraph is totally false

For jurors: IMO.

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #74)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:39 PM

80. Any links on that?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #80)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:09 PM

89. The easist place for you to read about it

Is in the African American group. There aren't a whole lot of threads in there. Look for the meta-like ones. Some post jury results calling AA posters who talk about racism "trolls."

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Response to BainsBane (Reply #89)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 09:30 PM

90. OK, just asking.

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Response to BainsBane (Original post)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:18 PM

78. here, let me help you.

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Response to yodermon (Reply #78)

Sat Jun 21, 2014, 04:21 PM

79. I don't have a problem with any of that

Some others, however, seem to.

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