Curious question about DU rules.

[NM_Birder]

Anything right of Democratic principals is strictly against the rules, it gets mocked, attacked, alerted on and usually deleted.

So how does open socialist, and communist philosophies get embraced and feathered into "the fold" as acceptable ?
I see posters promoting Socialism/Communism , I see posters naming themselves Socialist/Communist.

Is Socialism and Communism an acceptable Democratic platform ? And if Yes, then why is it called Democratic Underground ?

Is Socialism and Communism "close enough" to Democratic values for DU members?

[NM_Birder]

1. you have strayed outside the perameters of acceptable questioning.

step back inside the paint, or be alerted on and deleted.

[CBGLuthier]

2. Do you always talk to yourself? Is FIVE MINUTES too long to wait for a reply?

Yes, most of us consider values more left than the typical democrat to be a hell of a lot closer to our ideology than that espoused by the RW.

[NM_Birder]

6. I meant to include my comment in my thread, but yes I do talk to myself when I'm bored.

most people do.

Do you embrace Socialism and Communism as acceptable, it's kind of a yes or no thing. "mostly" Communist or "kinda" Socialist is a sign that both are misunderstood social principals.

What's your favorite ? Democracy, Socialism, or Communism ? They are not complimentary to one another.

[daleanime]

10. But are they

Exclusive?









PS-You do know you can edit your OP,,,,,

[NM_Birder]

20. I don't like "edit", I make mistakes, and never pass up a chance to converse with myself.

There is no such thing as a Democratic Communist or Socialist philosophy.

But like I said down there somewhere, "pretty blue wrapping paper". Communist and Socialist ideals, disguised as "Democratic".
I already understand DU more clearly than I did an hour ago.

[daleanime]

21. No, I don't think you do....

and your really missing a chance to better understand yourself.






Not that you would ever want to.

[cali]

28. You are simply making crap up. feel free, but your vapid claims are going to be

demolished with facts.

[NM_Birder]

37. show me the "facts"

Full marks on the use of "vapid", better brush up on the meaning of "fact" though.

[cali]

41. you, honeypie, clearly wouldn't know a fact if it smooched you on the lips

Now answer my question? Do you believe that Sweden isn't a democracy? How about Denmark? England? You don't know a political system from an economic system.

My tag line used to be : Teh stupid it burns. Thanks for reminding me how apt that is when it comes to your NTST types.

[MineralMan]

72. Why are you courting a hidden post with your insults?

It's easy enough not to use them, but you continue. I see many examples in this thread. I'm not an alerter, but others are. Please consider making your arguments without the personal attacks.

[cali]

74. this is clearly a you-know-what

and he/she has obviously insulted many DUers as well as DU. Where is your scolding of that MM? Gonna alert on me? Feel free.

And really, I don't need your "concern", so please, save your breath.

[MineralMan]

76. No, I'm not going to alert on you.

I was just hoping for more civility from you. I guess I shouldn't. Never mind.

[NM_Birder]

80. What can I say? Cali schooled me.

"Honeypie cupcake tootsie Pumpkin" "sweetums, dear...." I could NEVER have guessed those, but I will next time.

it doesn't matter now, this went the predicted way a long time ago.
nerve hit ........ point proven.

[CreekDog]

84. if you truly are against insults, you could save some criticism for the one who started them here

some people here seem to think it's some sort of badge of honor to suffer fools gladly.

f--- that.

[tkmorris]

86. Cali your Mom is here.

[Squinch]

95. MM, this whole thread consists of the OPer insulting people and DU in general.

[MineralMan]

97. So? Replying in kind is not necessary.

There are always civil ways to reply to anything.

[VanillaRhapsody]

102. Is this European Democratic Underground?

[GeorgeGist]

90. Democratic socialism is alive and we'll in Scandinavia ...

ever heard of it?

[Ichingcarpenter]

12. You need to define your terms

is democracy a economic system?


Anyway welcome comrade.......lol

[NM_Birder]

22. If I'm allowed to define the terms and you obey, that's called a Dictatorship.

"Dictatorship Unquestioned" ........... you might be on to something.

Now that I'm getting a more clear understanding, "Democratic Underground" IS pretty funny LOL !

[daleanime]

25. And yet your still here......

hummmmmnnn.......

[Ichingcarpenter]

26. what are you drinking?

cause you're not making sense.

Just answer the questions

Is democracy an economic system of government?

[NM_Birder]

40. seriously ?

Are you asking if Democracy is an economic system of government ?

Since Communism is apparently a perfectly acceptable form of rule, at Democratic Underground. I ...will ask the questions, YOU will answer.

BTW, you already did .

[cali]

42. detox for you might be a sound place to start, pumpkin.

[NM_Birder]

66. "pumpkin" lol...just when I thought you had hit the high water mark.

you are relentlessly impressive, keep calling me names but please don't change your style, you're convincing me ...really.

You've almost got me, don't give up now.

[Ichingcarpenter]

52. OK... COMMISSAR.... ve vill answer question

[cali]

27. do you think they're both the same? They are not.

I embrace a mixed economy with a healthy dose of Socialism. My Senator is a socialist. And you are, apologies, ignorant as hell if you think that Socialism doesn't compliment democracy. Do you actually believe the Scandinavian countries aren't democracies?

Huge fail, dear.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

33. +1 nt

[NM_Birder]

43. I love this one. you win.

[cali]

51. thanks for proving you're utterly incapable of discussing anything cogently.

[NM_Birder]

69. LOL, you're surprised that you can't understand a "pumpkin, honeypie, cupcake"

oh forgot "tootsie". "Honeypie" is my favorite though

There is NO way you are EVER going to be outdone, I should have guessed by the post count, one of the true "untouchables". Thank You, .... we all needed this today.

Aaaaaaaaannd Cut.....I'm out.

[The_Commonist]

8. Yeah, that was pretty weird, right?

I am a Commonist, not a Communist.

And to the OP - it's democratic UNDERGROUND, not mainstream.
For example, I've made it clear on many occasions that I am not a registered Democrat. I always vote for the Working Families Party ticket. In my state, candidates can be on more than one party ticket. Therefore, I've voted for Barack Obama twice, but never on the Democratic ticket.

I haven't been banned. So far...

[Iggo]

4. Did you forget to switch?

:headscratch:

[tkmorris]

29. It was a nice recovery though

"I like to talk to myself" LOL.

[Iggo]

57. Lol...yeah, nice.

[daleanime]

3. If you can tell me the difference......

between "Socialism" and "Communism" I may be able to answer your question.

[NM_Birder]

9. That is the most honest answer I could have expected.

Do you know the difference between Socialism, Communism and Democracy ? Or are you being clever ?

[daleanime]

14. Clever, no....

just checking to see if you really want to discuss this or just trying to make some kind of personal point.



Right now my money's on the latter, but I wouldn't mind being wrong.

[NM_Birder]

30. I was asking for feedback, and you have been one of the most clear.

I'm not interested in a grand Political Science 101 debate, I was curious and believe me, so far I've gotten what I thought would be the answer.

Little to no support of Democratic ideals, blatant support of anti Democratic ideals, and an attempt to engage in a debate on the difference between Democracy, and Communism.
You already answered my question, and I appreciate it.

[daleanime]

46. Sigh....

Why so willingly blind little one?



It's amazing how people see what they want to. If your not interested in PS 101 how will you deal with the upper level courses?


You see people confirming your already held beliefs, I see people who would be willing to discuss the subject if you approached it in an honest manner.




Oh well, take care.

[cali]

48. more garbled nonsense. please try harder, cupcake.

[daleanime]

53. Please, Cali be nice...

I sure he's doing the best he can. Those first few baby steps can be so hard.

[cali]

65. I say he/she is a.... yeah, you know.

[daleanime]

71. True...

on the other hand, I'd give this whole thread a DUzy.

[Maedhros]

88. Your posts indicate that your are quite ignorant of several basic political concepts.

For example, you conflate economic systems (Socialism, Communism) with political systems (Democracy).

When someone points this out, you become indignant and chide them for trying to engage you in a "Political Science 101 debate" when it is obvious to even the most casual observer that you desperately need it.

Your posts are disingenuous, poorly conceived, derisive and ultimately pointless.

0 out of 10. Would not read again.

[Lex]

15. You didn't answer.

[The Road Runner]

5. This is what is written in DU's Terms of Service

The DU Terms of Service contain the following:

Don't be a wingnut (right-wing or extreme-fringe).
Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans to all levels of political office. Teabaggers, Neo-cons, Dittoheads, Paulites, Freepers, Birthers, and right-wingers in general are not welcome here. Neither are certain extreme-fringe left-wingers, including advocates of violent political/social change, hard-line communists, terrorist-apologists, America-haters, kooks, crackpots, LaRouchies, and the like.

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. YUP! I have had to point out that paragraph many times....

ALSO I think the lines that say "understand the importance of working within the system to elect more Democrats and fewer Republicans"

They seem to like to ignore that paragraph of the TOS

[MrScorpio]

7. I just took a political quiz that said I my political ideology aligned mostly with the Greens...

I'll probably never vote Green, even if I could, Dems were only five points behind anyway. But politically, I'm pretty damn leftier than any damn Democrat you'd ever want to meet. But I've been here for a pretty long time as a DUer in good standing.

Wanna know why?

Because I'm cool, just like Fonzie.

And long as you're cool, like the Fonz, you'll be just fine.

So, Simon says "Chill," baby. Chill.

[Lex]

16. "Pro Mother-State"

Gimme a break.

[Ichingcarpenter]

19. I GOOGLE it and it means

states that support mothers and children

[daleanime]

23. I could get behind that..

[Brother Buzz]

32. But, but that could involve nipples

[Ichingcarpenter]

39. LOL.... for the win n/t

[daleanime]

50. But that's a subject....

I like to stay on top of.....









I don't believe I went there.

[In_The_Wind]

100. Another DUzy

[MrScorpio]

18. Huh?

OK, why are you here then?

[cali]

31. try harder, honey. as is, your op is lame and your comments are ignorant and

silly. that won't cut it here, sweetums.

[NM_Birder]

70. ....you couldn't resist me if you tried...want me to prove it?

[Lex]

94. *puke*

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. why do you insist on Honeypie etc... and such to address people....you do understand its sexist

right?

[cali]

34. are you, uh, imbibing? because your word salad would indicate such.

[mylye2222]

11. I feel close to the green and I am a non violence apologist.

[KamaAina]

17. Socialism is indeed an acceptable Democratic platofrm.

http://www.dsausa.org/

And "Democratic principals"? You mean like this guy?



Come to think of it, he's probably a repuke. Maybe this one?

[Ichingcarpenter]

24. Pals......he or she is your pal

I used to teach the kids on remembering the difference in spelling principle and principal.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

35. give me examples. this sounds like "when did you stop beating your wife" question. nt

[tkmorris]

36. BTW, what the HELL is a "curious question" anyway?

Isn't any question, almost by definition, a "curious" one? There are exceptions of course, but the phrase has always grated on my nerves for some reason.

[cali]

38. NTST poster, imo

[tkmorris]

45. Hmm, I think I get your meaning

Even if I am uncertain precisely what NTST means.

[NM_Birder]

78. "not this same shit"....... now you know what you understand LOL

[NM_Birder]

55. Every single poster is proving the point I'm discussing here at work.

But, you just hit what I thought would be the longshot.
I owe a lunch for that, only one had "curious question" as the issue here, I'm amazed that there are two of you.

I'll owe one, but I'm WAY ahead in the overall so far.

bad form, my bad. Should have said, "let me prove" not "curious question".

[cali]

58. only in your own wee, delusional mind are you ahead, tootsie.

[NM_Birder]

60. LOL, FINALLY Why did it take you so long ? that was too close.

[Maedhros]

89. Don't feed it, cali.

Let it stew under its bridge.

[tkmorris]

82. I would ask what you think you've "proved"

But I realize that would be a lot like asking the woodpecker on the tree out front why he always pecks in clockwise circles around the trunk.

The answer is bound to be profoundly important to him but absolutely pointless to me. Peck away little woodpecker, peck away.

[LeftyMom]

44. I get the sense that a socialist DUer schooled you on another thread and this is a veiled call-out.

Do I need to go look for it or can you just provide me the link and save a little googling?

FWIW, you've been at DU for less than a year, and you don't have many posts. If the mix of views here isn't to your liking nobody's making you stay.

[NM_Birder]

64. goggle baby google .. but you'll NEVER beat "honeypie", "tootsie" or "cupcake"

I'm honored that you are so curious about me, but I can't say the same about you. I'm not even sure HOW to stalk your posts or anything.

take care.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

47. Hi, socialist here.

Both in terms of the economic philosophy AND politically.

What your original post seems to misunderstand is that socialism and communism as philosophies compare to capitalism, not to 'democracy'.

That's why I'm a 'Democratic Socialist'. Most Democrats are "Democratic Capitalists", but just call themselves Democrats.

So, because I'm also *politically* a socialist (ie, I belong to a separate political party, not just hold a different economic philosophy) I can't promote my party's candidates on this website, unless, perhaps, they're running on a race in which no actual Democrat is running. But I can certainly espouse my economic views and beliefs in the shared common good that does is not dependent upon capitalism. Indeed, I would suggest that capitalism is far less 'complementary' to democracy than socialism is. Capitalism is all about inequality and power accruing to those who have more wealth, and has very obviously had a highly corrosive effect upon democracy in our nation.

[NM_Birder]

49. I take back the win up-thread, sorry dear Cali.

"Democratic Socialist" wins.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

56. ?

It's the party name.

Democratic Socialists of America

[iamthebandfanman]

96. Shhh

dont give him too much info.. might cause that head of his to explode..

i think "?" should have been the only reply to this entire thread

he cant seem to grasp that there are differences between political philosophies and economic ones...

[cali]

54. Oh, and if you actually wanted an answer instead of just playing idiotic games,

you should have used the "Ask the Administrators" forum.

you are so transparent, and sadly you seem to think you're clever.

Love to break this to you ; no, not clever.

[NM_Birder]

73. You still haven't gotten it have you ?

Sweetums ? OK that one was lame.

[Agnosticsherbet]

59. Many polices and concepts in Socialist/Comunist Systems are quite at home in a Democracy...

Social Security
Medicare

There are polices and concepts in socialist systems that are contentious.

Ownership of the means of production. (It is how you would institute such a system that makes it fit with Democratic party ideals.)

Unions - (Some Socialist and Communist systems outlaws unions because everyone belongs to a big happy collective. Others allow unions.)

It is a matter of borrowing something good form those systems and trying them out.


But, really, there is a lot more conservative ideas here than you may think.

The Right Wing Second Amendment gun culture has its adherents here.
At times, many decried "Obamacare" or the "Affordable Care Act" as a give away to big insurance companies, a very right wing idea.
The real possibility that the US is about to begin bombing Iraq right now because of "National Security" is now being discussed.

Historically, Conservatives and Liberals shared a general belief in individual rights and a belief in a free market, capitalist economic system.

What "Conservative" policy do you think we should embrace.

Personally, I prefer to discuss individual policies because saying we promote Socialism/Communism is so broad as to be almost meaningless, just as it is meaningless to say Conservatism promotes Fascism/Nazism. Now, some policies and actions by the left may very well have originated in socialist/communist philosophy, just as some polices and actions by the right may very well have originate in Fascist/Nazi philosophy. That does not mean the majority on either side of the partisan divide are promoting those forms of government.

[daleanime]

62. Sorry, too much information....

do you want him to hurt himself.













PS-personally, I loved your response. Fastball down the center. He'll never touch it.

[NM_Birder]

75. pssst ........ he already hit it out the park, you still haven't realized it ;)

[daleanime]

79. you've haven't even stepped into the box....

now your calling the homer and going home?







Thanks for proving me right.

[NM_Birder]

81. we weren't even playing the same game.

But if anybody here is right you are top ten.
I tried to let it go, but it's like a crowd of people falling on ice in slow motion .................. I can't stop watching.

[daleanime]

85. The only game being played...

was you trying to pretend that you were willing to discuss anything. I can't help but bad for you.




Feel free to laugh that off, I've got things to do.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

63. How about vegetarianism, Catholocism, Atheism, Pacificism, Feminism, patriotism?

Having sat on a lot of juries, I assure you that Socialists, Communists, Anarchists, and other leftists get alerted on frequently.

[underpants]

67. (.) (.)

[maddezmom]

68. .....

[tkmorris]

83. Oh my...

[valerief]

77. Links? Otherwise, get off my lawn. nt

[cyberswede]

87. Because...

Anything right of Democratic principals is strictly against the rules, it gets mocked, attacked, alerted on and usually deleted.

To use your terms, "anything right of Democratic principals {sic}" aren't really Democratic principles any more, are they?

There is a lot of common ground between Democratic Socialists (like Bernie Sanders) and Democrats. Much more so than between Democrats and conservatives.

[Codeine]

91. Who else would a socialist support in our two-party environment?

I'm far to the left of the Democratic Party on most issues, but I can't see myself wasting a vote on a Socialist Party candidate, or a Green or whatever. Our political system is such that I lack the luxury of supporting a party with whom I have an identical philosophy.

In short, I broadly agree with much of the Democratic platform - as far as it goes, anyway - and I vociferously and utterly oppose the 'Puke platform.

[Enthusiast]

92. Unrecommended (a whole bunch)

[The_Commonist]

93. Someone around here was talking about George Will the other day.

It was said that Will is very articulate, but not too bright. I thought that seemed accurate, and I had never really thought about it that way before.

When originally venturing into this thread, I thought you had a good question, for a relative newbie, but that it was simply inarticulate. I was, and still am giving you the benefit of the doubt, that you are not a troll, simply fucking with us for your own entertainment. Again, I thought you had a good question.

Now after coming back to this thread, I see that you are also not too bright, as well as inarticulate. Please take this as honest feedback, it's not to meant to be insulting. And I think you've gotten some crap here that you don't deserve, and you are now spending lots of time caught in a loop of defensiveness. I'm part of the school that it's the responsibility of others to help the not-too-bright and inarticulate along. Yes, it can be frustrating for everyone involved, and sometimes it's simply not worth it.

But I'm going to continue to give you the benefit of the doubt, being a fellow Giants fan.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. You gotta be careful with that Colorado pot candy.

It can be alot more potent than it looks.

[socialist_n_TN]

99. Just on the outside chance that this isn't bait.......

The last poll I saw on DU showed that 70+% of the ones voting in the poll considered themselves "socialist".

Now it wasn't a very good poll, IMO, because I've had arguments with people who called themselves "socialist" who were. IN NO WAY actual socialists, but that will give you an idea of the mindset of the majority of active DUers. "Socialism" as a word and an economic system doesn't scare the people who post on DU. The "Underground" part of this board is strong.

I'm here because left populist Dems are good recruiting targets for actual socialists. They're already halfway there with the left populism anyway. All I and the other Marxists have to do is continue to point out the inconsistencies and growing inequality of capitalism and the job will be done fairly soon.

How's that "trickle down" economy working for ya? One dollar, one vote right?

[quinnox]

101. I know you got hidden, but there is a huge diff between communism and socialism

When you try and wrap them together, that is a huge ass signal that you are a right winger type.