The trade for Bergdahl should improve the chances

[Uncle Joe]

of negotiating a peace treaty in Afghanistan.

The five Taliban members traded were a key sticking point in earlier peace negotiations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammad_Fazl

Release negotiations[edit]

Most Afghans had been repatriated to Afghanistan by 2009.[12] Throughout the fall of 2011 and the winter of 2012 the United States conducted peace negotiations with the Taliban, and widely leaked was that a key sticking point was the ongoing detention of Fazl and four other senior Taliban, Norullah Noori, Khirullah Khairkhwa, Abdul Haq Wasiq and Mohammed Nabi.[13][14][15] Negotiations hinged around sending the five men directly to Doha, Qatar, where they would be allowed to set up an official office for the Taliban.

In March 2012, it was reported that Ibrahim Spinzada, described as "Karzai's top aide" had spoken with the five men, in Guantanamo, earlier that month, and had secured their agreement to be transferred to Qatar.[15] It was reported that Karzai, who had initially opposed the transfer, now backed the plan.

Release[edit]

On June 1, 2014 Fazl, and the other five Taliban prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, were released in Qatar in exchange for U.S. soldier Bowe Bergdahl who had been captured by the Taliban nearly five years previously. Fazl and other members of the Taliban five, as part of the conditions of their release, were prohibited from leaving Qatar for one year.[16]

[Uncle Joe]

1. Perhaps that's why the Republicans are so scared.

[sabrina 1]

35. Quite a few people believe that war supporters in Congress, not just Republicans sadly, were opposed

to the deal which could in effect have ended the war way sooner. So much money to give up, it must be hard for them.

This could have happened two years ago.

[Uncle Joe]

36. That's true, sabrina but I also believe the Republicans

have a much greater share of war supporters and more political motivation to undermine any peace overtures because we have a Democratic Administration and so they're looking at it from a partisan point of view as well.

This is not to say some Democrats aren't playing the same game.

This will be a tough trial for the Obama Administration but I honestly believe they have intent on taking the path to peace and this is an opening move, whether it works or not, time will tell.

[sabrina 1]

38. I agree and hope all Democrats will get on board with the President on this. It doesn't help

to have people like Feinstein eg, opposing him right now. If Dems were to remain united it would be much harder for Republicans to get what they want.

I am happy that Obama did this. Happy too that he did it without telling them. They would have once again, held it up as long as they could.

[Uncle Joe]

39. I agree and I am as well.

My gut tells me, that's why he didn't inform Karzai of the swap, too many pro war connections with the U.S. probably in both parties, definitely the Republicans.

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. Exactly right: they were not traded for Bergdahl but released as part of the peace negotiations

Bergdahl was a way to do it that would be (slightly) harder to critique than an out-and-out release. The republicans know it, too, which is why they're raising holy hell. There are no more stumblingblocks to full withdrawal and negotiated settlement.

The whole Bergdahl thing is a ruse, but it's a ruse on both sides:

For the Obama admin, it's a ruse to meet this negotiation point. "We can't let these guys go without some reason. Let's engineer the trade for Bergdahl as the reason."

For the GOP, it's a ruse in that they know none of this has anything to do with Bergdahl, but they are using him to try to kibosh the negotiations on the larger peace.

[Uncle Joe]

3. I agree with you but I'm still counting it as a "trade," I believe that strengthens

Obama's hand as Commander in Chief.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/was-pow-swap-bowe-bergdahl-legal

The law governing transfers of Guantanamo Bay detainees however, is not mysterious. A 2013 defense bill makes it clear that the administration “shall notify the appropriate committees of Congress” not later “than 30 days before the transfer or release” of a detainee. The administration has acknowledged that they did not inform Congress of the decision within the time period, and the decision to move on the exchange may have been motivated by concerns about Bergdahl’s health.

This wasn't a "transfer" or "release," it was a trade and I believe an overall good one.

[Raine1967]

4. This thread needs a kick.

and a serious rec! Thank you Uncle Joe!

[Uncle Joe]

5. I hate kicking my own thread, too much, I heard you can go blind.

Thanks for the kick and rec. Raine.

[Raine1967]

9. Glad to do so.

I came across this via BabylonSister's thread.

Reading that link was amazing. It makes so much sense.

This has been in the works for a while, we got one of our back. I don;t care right now about the reat, He's coming home and we are negotiating peace.

This is something I can live with.

[Cha]

19. I always kick my owns threads.. a lot, if they need it! My eyes

are good. We believe in our threads enough to post them.. there's no shame in keeping them from falling through the cracks and making it so more people can see them, imv.

[Uncle Joe]

21. You make a good point, Cha.

[Cha]

22. You should see my threads sometimes.. like I'm holding

a party with just me. But, eventually peeps get on!

[Uncle Joe]

23. This song is dedicated to you, Cha.

[Cha]

26. Mahalo, Uncle Joe! :)

[Uncle Joe]

27. Mahalo, Cha! :)

[bobduca]

6. This gives the less radical taliban 'breathing room' to take next steps

...both their right wing and our right-wing extremes did not want this prisoner exchange.

[Uncle Joe]

7. I agree, bobduca

there is one thing our right wing extremists fear more than anything is for peace to break out.

[bobduca]

8. The most unwanted and unprofitable outcome possible: peace

[Rex]

20. Peace to a Republlican is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

A vampire trapped in a tofu factory. GOPers go running from peace like it was holy water.

[kentuck]

10. That's what it's all about...

It's difficult to talk ideas with the Republican Party.

If the Taliban thinks they got a "win" out of the deal, then that's OK too.

It's their country. They are the ones that have to live there. We will be gone.

[Uncle Joe]

11. There will still be a lot of hard negotiating

at the peace table but this swap removes a major impediment.

At one time Karzai was against the idea, then he became for it, now he's supposedly upset because he wasn't consulted.

His government is rife with corruption, time is running out and they will need to get their act together.

[kentuck]

12. I think they finally realized that the Taliban will have to be part of any government formed...

I doubt that Al Qaeda will be able to set up shop in their country again? Or that they would want to? They have moved on to other places, like Iraq, Syria, North Africa, Yemen and other countries.

We will always have enemies, just like we have always had enemies. And you can bet the Taliban Five are not all of them.

[Uncle Joe]

13. I agree, kentuck and I don't believe Karzai nor the Taliban want Al Qaeda

to have any presence in their nation, once this is all said and done.

Originally the Taliban were afraid of losing face when Bin Laden and his minions were there and that's why they didn't hand them over.

I don't believe they would risk having the U.S. coming back in again in one form or another should Al Qaeda use Afghanistan in anywhere near the scope as had been the case in the run up to 9/11 and afterward.

[Rex]

14. You forget the first rule, GOPukers don't like peace.

Peace means people can get docile and pursue their dreams with leisure. Life is supposed to be short and horrible (according to some fundamentalist republicans I know).

[Uncle Joe]

15. We haven't forgotten it, bobduca and I discuss this on posts 6,7 and 8 but

I believe the American People are getting fed up with eternal war and our nations resources being squandered in that never ending pursuit versus taking care of our domestic needs, infrastructure, investing more in sustainable energy sources etc. etc. etc.

I believe the tide is turning against those fundamentalist Republicans that you speak of, too many dynamics are against them.

[Rex]

16. I agree completely and I think that is going to drive the polls in November.

People are fed up with the huge amount of waste that goes along with war. 3 trillion dollars for Iraq and Afghanistan and what was it all about anyway? FRepublicans cheered on Iraq and Afghanistan, time to hold their feet to the fire! What was it for?

The tide is turning, that is why we are going to take back the House and keep the Senate. Maybe with a super-majority we can get some work done.

[Uncle Joe]

17. I feel optimistic about our chances as well.

Peace to you, Rex.

[Rex]

18. Peace to you too Uncle Joe!

[RainDog]

24. k&r n/t

[spanone]

25. k&r...

[Cha]

28. This goes along with your OP, Uncle Joe

Why The Five Taliban Detainees Had To Be Released Soon, No Matter What

snip//

"The United States is engaged in an armed conflict in Afghanistan against al Qaeda, the Taliban, and associated forces authorized by Congress under the 2001 Authorizations to Use Military Force. It is remains controversial whether this armed conflict extends beyond Afghanistan and the border regions of Pakistan, but what is not in doubt is that of the enemy forces party to this conflict, the Taliban is confined to Afghanistan and Pakistan. President Obama recently announced that the combat role for the United States in the armed conflict in Afghanistan will end this year and all participation will completely cease by 2016.

When wars end, prisoners taken custody must be released. These five Guantanamo detainees were almost all members of the Taliban, according to the biographies of the five detainees that the Afghan Analysts Network compiled in 2012. None were facing charges in either military or civilian courts for their actions. It remains an open question whether the end of U.S. involvement in the armed conflict in Afghanistan requires that all Guantanamo detainees must be released. But there is no doubt that Taliban detainees captured in Afghanistan must be released because the armed conflict against the Taliban will be over.

MOre..
http://thinkprogress.org/world/2014/06/02/3443719/the-case-for-negotiating-for-bergdahls-release/

[Uncle Joe]

31. That's a good post, Cha.

[Cha]

32. ..

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

29. But but but

What are the Republicans going to do without perpetual war?

[Uncle Joe]

33. Well they will always have Sony Playstations and XBOXes or some equivalent of that and

if we as a nation can legalize cannabis maybe they will mellow out.

[sabrina 1]

37. They can continue their war against their own citizens, those 'commies' they hate so much

And they ARE pushing for a war with Russia, the same ones who lied us into Iraq. They dream about the good old Cold War days. They still view all Liberals as enemies of the state, commies, comrades, pootie lovers etc etc.

Don't worry about them, they'll find a war for everyone else's kids to fight in if they can.

[Comrade Grumpy]

30. That's a good point. The Taliban aren't going away.

The Kabul government can either fight them forever or negotiate peace.

They're not very likable people, but they are deeply rooted and a powerful political bloc, and they can make a claim to Pashtun nationalism, too.

Maybe somebody in the administration should be talking up how this will advance peace negotiations.

[Uncle Joe]

34. I believe they will Comrade Grumpy as I have no doubt somebody there reads

progressive websites and probably the other side as well to know where, they're coming from.

I believe one of the highest and best uses of the Internet is to serve as a think tank and a form of political insurance or cover, so I will not be surprised when they start talking this up.

Maybe somebody in the administration should be talking up how this will advance peace negotiations.

[TBF]

40. I'm in favor of what POTUS did here -

He is showing that he really wants to get out of Afghanistan. Now, whether he moves straight into Syria is another issue ...

But I will take the good where I can find it. No problem with these actions/negotiations at all. K&R for the thread. Repugs are too dimwitted to understand complicated quid pro quo, but you'd think they could comprehend "no soldier left behind". Apparently even that is too complex for them.

[malaise]

41. Precisely Uncle Joe

and they hate that coming reality. They want endless war and endless profits.

[Uncle Joe]

47. I agree malaise.

[seveneyes]

42. How can you make peace with a group that continues to abuse women?

What kind of peace allows women to be raped, killed, mutilated and abused?

[bobduca]

43. Yes, Lets keep killing them with drones until they respect women!

Know of any countries where babies in incubators are in jeopardy? We should invade there next!

[stone space]

44. There's no such thing as a Feminist Drone. (nt)

[Uncle Joe]

45. If we're going to wage war with nations or peoples that abuse women then

we need to get with it and wage world war, because that's a long list.

As the above posters noted, drones don't make any distinction in their killing power whether it's men, women or children.

Having said that, this is what negotiation is all about, I suspect the Taliban will need to make some reforms of their own.

[Zorra]

46. K & R nt

[kelliekat44]

48. DUers are so "on top of things." This entire discussion thread should be sent to every media outlet

and the Congress.

[Uncle Joe]

49. Thanks, kelliekat.

I like to think of us as a think tank for the government.

Peace to you,